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Sony Interactive Entertainment to Acquire iSIZE, a UK-based Company Specializing in Deep Learning for Video Delivery
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Business
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
So fascinating how short-sighted many people are.
If early impressions of Sony's streaming quality are to be believed, it makes sense that they've already incorporated this company's technology into their streaming. Investments like this and the Audeze purchase are long-term vision/strategy investments.
If a purchase like this can make the initial investment into Gaikai pay dividends, it's a smart buy. Somehow, people think a company the size of SIE can just engineer all of this stuff in-house, but sometimes when you get a lot of smaller companies who specialize in things that you're weak in, you can ramp up both companies in a major way.
Let's think about a perfect state in which Sony can seamlessly stream PS5 gaming to devices like the portal or TVs, particularly Sony TVs, and for low operating costs. It would be a significant boon for PlayStation Plus subscriber rates. They could let people download their game libraries as well, so people are still buying games, but without taking the hit of selling the hardware.
Only a matter of time before we see a PlayStation streaming dongle.
And throw in Crunchyroll which I think would be a major boost to PS+, they could deliver Crunchyroll probably for lower costs with the technology this company has. Maybe there were concerns with getting so many new people on Crunchyroll at once and driving costs. We'll see over the next year or so if Crunchyroll gets bundled into PS+ Premium.
We recently saw PS+ price increase and many asked why. That was probably in part to help pay for this acquisition and the expansion of their cloud streaming aspirations.
Edit: Microsoft has Azure... Sony doesn't. It's interesting to see a company the size of Sony and the steps they have to take to compete strategically with a much larger company.
If early impressions of Sony's streaming quality are to be believed, it makes sense that they've already incorporated this company's technology into their streaming. Investments like this and the Audeze purchase are long-term vision/strategy investments.
If a purchase like this can make the initial investment into Gaikai pay dividends, it's a smart buy. Somehow, people think a company the size of SIE can just engineer all of this stuff in-house, but sometimes when you get a lot of smaller companies who specialize in things that you're weak in, you can ramp up both companies in a major way.
Let's think about a perfect state in which Sony can seamlessly stream PS5 gaming to devices like the portal or TVs, particularly Sony TVs, and for low operating costs. It would be a significant boon for PlayStation Plus subscriber rates. They could let people download their game libraries as well, so people are still buying games, but without taking the hit of selling the hardware.
Only a matter of time before we see a PlayStation streaming dongle.
And throw in Crunchyroll which I think would be a major boost to PS+, they could deliver Crunchyroll probably for lower costs with the technology this company has. Maybe there were concerns with getting so many new people on Crunchyroll at once and driving costs. We'll see over the next year or so if Crunchyroll gets bundled into PS+ Premium.
We recently saw PS+ price increase and many asked why. That was probably in part to help pay for this acquisition and the expansion of their cloud streaming aspirations.
Edit: Microsoft has Azure... Sony doesn't. It's interesting to see a company the size of Sony and the steps they have to take to compete strategically with a much larger company.
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Slothbeing1209
Member
Tried it. I can't even play the game by cloud streaming.
My internet is just not strong enough.
My internet is just not strong enough.
Snake29
Banned
98% of the companies in the world are not cloud providers themselves or for external partners. There are only 4 huge cloud providers so im not sure what you talking?
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Ronin_7
Member
Don't try to be logic here mate
Ronin_7
Member
Since when does this has anything to do with AWS? The IQ median level here is at alarming low rates.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Just like when they bought Insomniac vs some much bigger name publisher… shout out to the chess club I guess
.
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StealthGoblin
Banned
PS5 game streaming is brilliant. I've heard from others to say that only Geforce Now is comparable or better.
Snake29
Banned
Other then that it's not yet available on tv's, or browser. PS5 cloud streaming is already ahead in quality over XCloud at this point.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I can't imagine it'll stay off those platforms for long.
Tams
Member
I am bitterly opposed to this acquisition!!! When is this going to end. These megacorps are going to ruin gaming.
The CMA had better grow a pair and scrutinise this fully at every phase. New Zealand save us!
Oh wait. Wrong corporation.
Stupid, ignorant post.
We should have an IQ test to join this forum.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They did buy both Gaikai and OnLive which were the pioneers of this space…
X-Wing
Member
This is the dumbest take I’ve read this week.
CamHostage
Member
Part of the reasons why they established PlayStation Productions is to have a proper conduit between those two arms of the corporation. And PlayStation Productions still has choices in partners; on film, probably everything will be distributed by SPE/Columbia or some other Sony arm, but since Sony doesn't have a TV outlet, they have been selling shows everywhere and have not always used SPE or other Sony divisions as a co-producer.
Perhaps, although there are other app developers for consoles; I would actually think Crunchyroll would use its existing app team to redevelop its mobile/smart TV apps for PlayStation than to start from scratch just for one hardware platform. (Is Microsoft making the Crunchyroll app?) Either way, that's Sony Interactive Entertainment's issue, to manage the video streaming bandwidth and costs for their signed partners, and that's regardless of who their partners are. If Sony saves a buck with iSize, I don't see them cutting a buck off the deal terms of what they invoice Crunchyroll for hosting shows. (At least, not without getting more out of the deal themselves.)
It's still a line item on the books, but sure, if SIE's complete streaming service offering becomes more viable than current providers (and they're in a position of deal terms and staffing/support to make that switch,) then Cruncyroll or Sony Pictures Core could/should adopt SIE's streaming service, and then yeah, like mentioned, it would could help somebody get their anime fix even more. Just saying though, it's a weird idea to think Sony PlayStation bought iSize thinking, "sweet, this is going to make Crunchyroll so happy..."
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yurinka
Member
The only reason they made PlayStation Productions was to make Sony Pictures movies and tv shows using IPs from SIE.
And yes, Sony Pictures tv shows and movies are sold everywhere and often have non-Sony coproducers. It has been like that since forever.
The Crunchyroll app is made by Sony in all platforms because it's owned by Sony. And Sony has a Sony console, and a Sony console team, SIE, who helps all the teams who develop for their console and OS with multiple tools, libraries, and different types of support.
So pretty likely this tech, if already isn't included will be included soon in the PS5 SDK tools for everyone who makes PS5 apps and games without extra efforts, or maybe even is also included at a OS level and they don't need to do anything to improve the image quality on their app.
But other than that it would allow video streaming apps to save millions in server costs if they implement it on the videos they have in their servers and use it in all platforms.
Being that the case, it would be dumb if all video streaming, stores and tv/cable channels from all Sony divisions don't implement it (for all platforms, not only PS), with or without (I don't think will be needed) SIE's help.
It could heavily save server costs (both HDD size and bandwith) to all Sony video streaming (like Crunchyroll) and websites like stores (like PSN) where they play video. It would mean all these services would become more profitable because of costs reductions while also getting better image quality.
It would also reduce PSN server costs because Sony games would be smaller because videos (for games that still uses videos for some cg cutscenes) could be saved inside the games at lower bitrate so the game would need less HDD space and would require less bandwith and server costs.
And as side benefit, it could also help non-Sony video apps and stores at PS5 because they'd save server costs.
These server costs aren't paid to Sony, are paid to whereever they have their server stored (traditionally Amazon AWS/Google Cloud/Azure/etc). Server costs of these apps aren't related to the Sony deals with the 3rd party apps and games they have on PS5.
So I don't see why Sony would change their deal with any 3rd party app or service. And even less with an internal Sony service/app like Crunchyroll.
The providers are the same. This is only a video rendering technique to improve image quality, compatible with any video codec, that allows better image quality even when using lower bitrate.
The only thing they'd need to do to improve the image quality would be to update their local app video players to add the usage of this tech. Probably the only think they'll have to do would be to update their app to the newest SDK version, no implementation needed because pretty likely the native video player of PS5 at OS level will already implement this.
Being Sony apps, SIE will give them access to also use it in the other clients for other platforms.
Once done that, if they want to save server space and bandwith they'll have to reduce the bitrate of the videos of their servers.
I assume SIE bought it mostly because will save SIE a shit ton of money in server costs and will help them improve the image quality and latency of their cloud gaming and remote play. And pretty likely will help them make their own DLSS, plus also further reduce game sizes, which PS5 players and devs would welcome.
Being also very helpful for non-SIE Sony video apps, tv channels, cable channels, stores etc. is a side benefit that the other divisions pretty likely will use because it will be free for them and would help them save millions. It would be stupid to don't use it.
What do you mean? Sony doesn't compete against AWS or Azure, Sony isn't in the business of renting server space, data center space or server management services, which is the AWS or Azure market.
In addition to this, iSize is a 22 people company so the acquisition must have been very cheap.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
CamHostage
So key to mention that Crunchyroll has 120 million registered (unpaid) users. The number they might be able to convert to paid if bundled with PS+ could be significant. When you look at Amazon Prime Video, don't know many people who would subscribe to that if it were on its own, but by bundling it with Amazon Prime, it's relatively successful despite the lack of quality (apart from The Boys, and Invincible).
Apple One is similarly successful through bundling.
If Sony can deliver Crunchyroll data and do so at a much smaller cost via machine learning delivery of bitrate, then the cost of bundling it with PS+ might become more manageable.
Kdad
Member
They had PS Vita TV...pretty close to a dongle.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Eh, i'd call it more of a set top box than a dongle.
It couldn't connect behind the tv simply in a port and it was quite expensive for a dongle at the price of 100 dollars and didn't come with a controller.
For Sony to have any real success with a PS Dongle that does streaming only, it basically has to be 50 dollars a pop or less and then they need to push tv manufacturers to include the tech in the tv and replace the dongle altogether.
Maybe a dongle and controller for 100 dollars.
They just know they need to strive for a balance because they don't want PS+ to reduce their B2P royalties and 1P sales.
Kdad
Member
Sure, price point could be better but it was sold to mostly those that had a PS3 controller already...I had it commando to the back of the tv.
Always thought it would make a good pack in to extend your existing console to another TV
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
That's because it wasn't a dongle.
The point of a dongle would be to reach largely new consumers.
You look at the Portal and that's more for existing users.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Good pickup! It’s not flashy or sexy as it’s on the coding side but sony is playing the long game and having a team talented in compression and streaming is going to help PlayStation streaming in the future. Better fidelity at lower bandwidth they also have some very promising tech
iSIZE pre-coding allows for up to 50% reduction in bitrate over leading commercial AVC/H.264, HEVC, VP9 and AV1 encoders.
Offers 4k and 8k streaming at better quality than current encoders, at 50% cost of current streaming platforms charges.
iSIZE pre-coding allows for up to 50% reduction in bitrate over leading commercial AVC/H.264, HEVC, VP9 and AV1 encoders.
Offers 4k and 8k streaming at better quality than current encoders, at 50% cost of current streaming platforms charges.
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CamHostage
Member
I have a feeling that yeah, we've already seen iSize content on PlayStation and never knew it (although there's nothing in their press series about contracting with Sony or SIE as a client, but I didn't dig much.) Doesn't seem like a blind-buy SIE would jump at to own without taking it for a test ride first.
Makes me wonder why this isn't its own Sony Corp purchase, maybe reporting to SIE but onboarded for the entire Sony operating family?
We've mentioned benefits on PlayStation devices for Sony companies such as CrunchyRoll and Sony Pictures Core and other service to tap into this optimized encoding technology for PlayStation Now or other PlayStation services, but of course these companies also output to many other devices (including Sony Electronics TVs and streaming devices, plus Xbox and Switch.) At some point, a dedicated Azure or AWS at Sony would seem to make global sense. Sony Interactive Entertainment would probably be the most apt team for overseeing and directing a dedicated streaming service division for the corporation (and they're already doing plenty of non-gaming streaming under the SIE umbrella,) so it kind of doesn't matter, but when you say, "Microsoft has Azure... Sony doesn't", my first thought is that Sony should.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
SIE has its own leadership. Just like Audeze probably would have made more sense from SEL rather than SIE, but it was SIE who has the vision.
There are probably a lot of reasons why we haven't seen Crunchyroll bundled with PS+ premium yet. Probably comes down to a dispute on revenue sharing between SIE and SPE, but also maybe SIE not wanting people to primarily watch anime on PS products they want them playing video games. SIE can be really short sighted which is why PS Vue failed and why many of their projects have failed despite having a pretty good foundation.
SIE absorbed SOE from SPE and then basically tanked them. They never liked them nor did they ever get along with them, but now they would probably love to have Everquest still be a thing. They sold Everquest for peanuts.
To complicate things Crunchyroll is owned in a joint venture between SPE and SME and it appears that there may still be a lot of issues between SME and SIE. They don't collaborate nearly as much as SPE and SIE. You look at Fate/Stay and the reality is that should probably fall under SIE but it doesn't.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
SOE did help SIE/SCE get PSN off the ground though, right? Whose fault is it that it took so long to allow for user name change though
?
yurinka
Member
Yes, and thanks to this and the work they did at Sony, SIE now has most patents related to cloud gaming, including to phones or smart tvs, which was on the long term goals of PS Now when announced 10 years ago.
The thing is people like Netflix have to pay others (like Sony) to put content there and have to produce themselves content.
So delivering Sony's content on via a Sony channel/stores/services just means Sony gets 100% of its revenue unlike when putting it in 3rd party channels/stores/services like Netflix. In addition to this, Sony has an insanely big old catalog that isn't available in Netflix and so on, so it's better to have it on a Sony service/store/etc generating little money than generating nothing.
In any case, Sony Pictures Core isn't a subscription service: it's a store to sell movies and tv shows. It will feature Crunchyroll content. Regarding Crunchyroll, it was profitable before being acquired by Sony.
This acquisition means Sony will be able to improve the image quality while storing their videos in lower bitrate (meaning they'll save money on server costs) for all their video services or stores (including those like PSN, which doesn't sells videos but has many trailers).
Additionally this tech allows them improve the image quality and latency of PS cloud gaming while reducing server costs. In the case of videogames they'd be able to reduce their size further compressing videos stored inside the games, and smaller games means less PSN server costs. And well, they may also use this tech to make their own DLSS.
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John Wick
Member
Makes sense for Sony as they are in the movie/video and streaming business.
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John Wick
Member
They can use this tech throughout all of Sony.
nial
Member
That's why I mentioned collaborations, but as of right now, it is not the purpose of the acquisition.
nial
Member
It isn't really free for the other subsidiaries (not divisions) of Sony, though. They would have to license it, just like any third-party company, from SIE.
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yurinka
Member
The other subsidiaries are also Sony, they aren't 3rd parties.
nial
Member
They are third-parties to Sony Interactive Entertainment, this is how these conglomerates work. Now, if they were divisions instead of subsidiaries, it would be another story, but that is not the case.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I’m sorry are you trying to convince us that Sony has to pay Sony to use Sony?
nial
Member
Sony PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT would have to pay Sony INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT, yes.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Providing a license doesn’t require payment.
nial
Member
They would demand payment from any third-party company. Why else would these subsidiaries be granted semi-autonomy to make their own business decisions and operate in their own way? You only see things like SP Core on PS+ Premium because of the good relationship and closeness of both companies, but there's obviously still a lot of money involved in it.
yurinka
Member
SIE is a division (and also a subsidiary) of Sony, as Sony Pictures or Sony Music are. Each division has multiple subsidiaries, as in the case of SIE can be each game development studio or regional/country SIE PR+marketing+retail sales office.
They have their invoices and receipts between each other for each transaction they make (as it could be SIE's HQ paying the budget of the development to a lead development studio, or a lead gamedev studio paying a support studio for co-development/outsourcing/testing/etc.
But since they are all the same corporation, in this case Sony, unlike with third parties they do share many things for free with each other, as in this case to share knowledge, tech, software development kits, libraries, code, documentation, etc. Stuff that in other case would cost a lot of money.
nial
Member
No, it's not.
yurinka
Member
Yes, SIE is the subsidiary company that handles their Game & Network Services division. In the same way Sony Pictures subsidiary company handles their Pictures division. Or that the Sony Music subsidiary companies handles their Music division.
This is the reason of why the CEOs of these subsidiary companies (as Jim Ryan in case of SIE/G&NS) are the ones who report the results or strategies of their companies as the results or strategies of these divisions (or business segments as they call it) in their fiscal reports, business segment meeting reports or reply for these divisions in related Q&As with investors.
Due to historical/acquisitions reasons, Sony Music management is split into 3 companies: Sony Music Entertainment (in charge of Japan), Sony Music Entertainment (production for non-Japan countries) and Sony Music Publishing (publishing for non-Japan countries).
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Thirty7ven
Banned
You’re not making much sense, it’s as if you are trying to convince us these are all completely separate companies and Sony is just a name they happen to share.
nial
Member
Because they are separate companies? Not completely, ok, but they don't give their shit to each other for free.
nial
Member
So, not a division and its own legal entity. Correct.