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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

R

RDreamer

Member
Interfectum said:
Yeah same... but I think Jurassic World's issues were more writing than directing. At least Rian is still writing episode 9.
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Yeah, I suppose it was directed well enough. It was a fun popcorn film, but I just didn't feel World got anywhere remotely near Park's raw creativity and perfect execution in almost every way. I spent a lot more time laughing at the ridiculousness in a way I never did in Jurassic Park.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
The Librarian said:
As a woman, it's reeeeeaallly hard in some ways to enjoy the OT.
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I can definitely appreciate and understand that, since to really get into Star Wars you kind of have to empathize with the heroes.

That being said, I think Empire is still the best film in series by a wide margin. Its writing, directing, editing, structure, pacing, dramatic heft, character arcs, set and costume design, soundtrack, setpieces, cinematography (although TFA is really good in this regard as well), just put it way above all the others. TFA is a solid movie, Empire is a great movie.

But if you can't get into the story of Empire because Leia is the only female character and is frequently the butt of sexist comments, that's an entirely valid reason to like TFA more.
 
JeTmAn81

JeTmAn81

Member
The Force Awakens definitely doesn't come anywhere near the other movies, including the prequels, in terms of expanding the universe/lore. But the fact that it delivers interesting characters and dialogue excuses this. However, if the next movies don't present something more interesting than The First Order vs. The Resistance, it's really going to hurt their critical reception.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Interfectum said:
Seems pretty obvious the formula they have for Episode 7, 8 and 9.
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I don't think it's all that obvious, myself. It seems like it could be that way because we can't help ourselves (and this new movie doesn't dissuade us) from trying to 1:1 line up what might be coming with things we're already familiar with. Even after the film has shown those predilections to be incorrect predictions (Rey = blank, Finn = blank, Poe = blank, so on and so forth) we still remain convinced this boat can only sail in the one direction.

There can be swerves.

Hell, we still dont' really know if Rey's story actually stops at Episode 9. We've been calling this a Sequel Trilogy, but who knows - maybe it actually becomes a 4 or 5 part series instead. No big decades-long time-skip between 9 and 10. Maybe 10 is just the direct sequel to 9, because the arcs we began with this film still aren't completed.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
TheWarrior said:
This is what's funny about art. I left the theater thinking it didn't feel like Star Wars at all. The most lacking thing for me was the planets. There was no creativity.

A lot of articles lose me when they tell me to forgive all of the lack of creativity because Star Wars.
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I dunno, it's not like the OT really had crazy alien landscapes. You had desert planets, snowy planets, forest planets, swamp planets, etc. Only the prequels really got a little weirder with it.

Empire was the only OG one to really get more out there with Cloud City and the asteroid. TFA feels pretty in-line with the OG movies aesthetically, which is definitely why the played it like they did.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
I don't think it's all that obvious, myself. It seems like it could be that way because we can't help ourselves (and this new movie doesn't dissuade us) from trying to 1:1 line up what might be coming with things we're already familiar with. Even after the film has shown those predilections to be incorrect predictions (Rey = blank, Finn = blank, Poe = blank, so on and so forth) we still remain convinced this boat can only sail in the one direction.

There can be swerves.
Click to expand...

Oh I think there will be swerves. I don't think it's going to mimic the original trilogy going forward but I do think it's going to follow the same path as typical trilogies. I don't think 8 or 9 are going to be anything like 5 or 6 though, at all.

I think 9 will be a stopping point but I do agree that both Rey and Kylo could live on. Possibly get their own movies or be in the next trilogy.
 
N

NyMartin90

Member
heliosRAzi said:
Basically, the prequels were shit, but at least they tried something new. They tried and failed where TFA plays it safe.
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I agree with this. Hell, the prequels tried to actually show us the "Wars" in Star Wars. By wars, I mean large scale battles with millions of troops across the galaxy (multiple locations) rather than a rag tag group of a dozen or so ships destroying a highly secure and "impenetrable" galactic space battle station.

Clone wars gifs for fun:
AWPbmtY.gif

Fo0Slrq.gif

mSC87nk.gif
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
PopeReal said:
People still pulling out the "When the hype is gone" argument. The hype was waiting for 3 years for this movie. The movie is out.

It is just as silly as me telling them that they will love this movie in due time.
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In the first week I saw a wall of "loved it" and now I see pages of people debating it's flaws and posting articles that debate it's flaws...

The hype is receding and TFA is a typically flawed production. I still hope people can enjoy the good in it if they are want to do so.
 
E

Eidan

Member
The best thing about the new trilogy is the new age of prequel apologists. We've had a taste for a bit now, but I expect their numbers to really grow in 2016.
 
JeTmAn81

JeTmAn81

Member
Interfectum said:
Twice. And I never see movies twice in theaters. The second time was actually better as my 30+ years of expectations were spent on the first viewing.
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I've still only seen it once and I definitely want to see it again so I don't have all that baggage I brought into that initial viewing. It's pretty impossible for me to watch a movie like this the first time without dealing with expectations.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
So all Rian Johnson has to do is make something that's both Star Wars and everything people expect from that franchise, but also something totally new, unique, weird, and personal.

Seems simple.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I think it makes sense for TFA to be where it was in terms of scale and art design. The prequels were superbly envisioned and designed from an artistic standpoint to be sure, but it was a different era and now we're 30 years past ROTJ where things are still kinda in ruins, the Empire is smaller but flourishing again in the guise of the First Order, and so on. To me there's a reason why it feels like ANH beyond some of the story beats; it's definitely a smaller scale and character driven/introductory film as was ANH (by comparison).

I fully expect the following episodes to greatly expand the picture as ESB did following ANH. But yeah, I think TFA again was in the right place organically and I'm not going to criticize it for being safe or less insane art direction or scale wise as the prequels. This one went back to the more simplistic and "lived in" universe of the originals which is something so many complained about the prequels not having.

Those movies have lots going against them aside from the visual design and creativity so I say let them have that at least. TFA is a much, much better film.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
I can definitely appreciate and understand that, since to really get into Star Wars you kind of have to empathize with the heroes.

That being said, I think Empire is still the best film in series by a wide margin. Its writing, directing, editing, structure, pacing, dramatic heft, character arcs, set and costume design, soundtrack, setpieces, cinematography (although TFA is really good in this regard as well), just put it way above all the others. TFA is a solid movie, Empire is a great movie.

But if you can't get into the story of Empire because Leia is the only female character and is frequently the butt of sexist comments, that's an entirely valid reason to like TFA more.
Click to expand...
I agree that Empire is better in terms of editing, definitely, and in some ways directing and writing. Not in every way, because I think TFA has the best lightsaber duel, and when Rey grabs the lightsaber is the best moment in any SW film for me. Set pieces are overall better in Empire, but TFA does have some that beat them, I think. Like the snowy woods setting for the lightsaber duel.

But being better at character arcs and drama (considering it had ANH to build on), TFA does a great job for being the first movie of a trilogy. Rey and Finn's arcs are great, and Han's death adds a lot of great drama, as well as the drama resulting from Rey and Finn going through changes.

So, for me, Empire does some stuff better than TFA, but not everything. Because of that, and the way the movie treats its female characters, I have to put Empire below TFA.
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
BocoDragon said:
In the first week I saw a wall of "loved it" and now I see pages of people debating it's flaws and posting articles that debate it's flaws...

The hype is receding and TFA is a typically flawed production. I still hope people can enjoy the good in it if they are want to do so.
Click to expand...

It's usually the same people just reposting the same problems they have with it repeatedly though. A lot of people posted their initial reactions in the first threads, but many of the same posters have carried on posting in the spoiler threads.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just not sure it's a good way to judge how hype is 'receding'.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Eidan said:
The best thing about the new trilogy is the new age of prequel apologists. We've had a taste for a bit now, but I expect their numbers to really grow in 2016.
Click to expand...

I don't. People are already tired of people even bringing the shit up. It's like a big fat spotlight with bullhorns glued to the side of it that says "this is going to be irritating and pointless! Come, hang out and lets see how long before you claw your own skin off!"

What's more likely to happen (especially considering the number of new fans that are coming into the series with reciepts/word of mouth this high) is that people will just lump all the old shit into the same bucket, and note some of that old shit is better than the other old shit.

The only ones gonna be looking to keep digging at that Prequel/OT divide are gonna be the old entrenched fans (us) who have made it such a habit that we can't envision NOT filtering every opinion we have through that schism.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Eidan said:
The best thing about the new trilogy is the new age of prequel apologists. We've had a taste for a bit now, but I expect their numbers to really grow in 2016.
Click to expand...

I'll listen to well-reasoned arguments as to why those movies are good and/or better than TFA. I just have yet to see any.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
ultracal31 said:
Curious to know how many times have you guys watched it?

I'm on 3 times now
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3 times. Depending on how I feel in the future I may go see it again, but right now I know I love the movie and I've seen it enough in theaters. Bring on the Blu Ray.

That said if I'm bored i'll probably check it out again. Hell that might be as soon as new years day.
 
H

heliosRAzi

Banned
FlashbladeGAF said:
Are we comparing 3 movies to one?

Lets stick with comparing TFA to TPM when it comes to originality in trilogy intros
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In that case, the point still stands.

Eidan said:
The best thing about the new trilogy is the new age of prequel apologists. We've had a taste for a bit now, but I expect their numbers to really grow in 2016.
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone is really apologizing for them. They're shit movies.
 
H

HvySky

Member
ultracal31 said:
Curious to know how many times have you guys watched it?

I'm on 3 times now
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Four times so far. I promised a friend I'd see it with her since she wasn't able to make it to the premier, so I'm locked in for a fifth showing. Will likely see it at least once more after that before it leaves theatres.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
All these weird articles trying to tell us to not like the film, wtf?

My metric:

I walked out of TFA with a smile on my face: Win.


I walked out of The Phantom Menace feeling confused and disappointed: Fail.


Thats all that matters to me. The fact I've been getting hyped up for TFA for over a year and it still left me with a a smile on my face? Mega-ultra- WIN.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
WadiumArcadium said:
It's usually the same people just reposting the same problems they had with it repeatedly though. A lot of people posted their initial reactions in the first threads but many of the same people have carried on posting in these threads.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's the same people. I've seen countless unique mixed responses to it in this thread.

WadiumArcadium said:
Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just not sure it's a good way to judge how hype is 'receding'.
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The hype has receded simply by fact that it's out, we've all seen it, and we've had time to let it set in. Whether or not what remains is a classic film, a merely good film, or a bad film, is up to you.
 
S

Sotha_Sil

Member
Thinking more on it, I hope that Luke doesn't have any fight scenes in the coming movies. He's already faced his trials with Darth Vader and Darth Sidious.

I'd like to see him survive the new trilogy as something like Yoda was for him, a teacher.

If he absolutely has to die, it should be to Kylo because, like with Vader, he refuses to kill a family member.
 
Digital-Hero

Digital-Hero

Member
Pagusas said:
All these weird articles trying to tell us to not like the film, wtf?

My metric:

I walked out of TFA with a smile on my face: Win.


I walked out of The Phantom Menace feeling confused and disappointed: Fail.


Thats all that matters to me. The fact I've been getting hyped up for TFA for over a year and it still left me with a a smile on my face? Mega-ultra- WIN.
Click to expand...

Getting back to the core of things for sure. I was grinning all the way out, haven't done that in awhile. What a good result.

ultracal31 said:
Curious to know how many times have you guys watched it?

I'm on 3 times now
Click to expand...


3 times. I may wait until the 3D Blu-ray hits next spring before I see it again. The urge to see it again is there though.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
richiek said:
This article encapsulates my feelings about TFA:

Admit it: 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' stinks -- and here's why



It's fine for people to enjoy this film (it's not a horrible film by any stretch). But for people to ignore its many flaws and shortcomings just because it feels more like an OT film than the prequels is just intellectually dishonest.
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You kidding me, that's exactly the type of pretentious nonsense I was talking about. Awful, biased article. Dude obviously came into things with a chip on his shoulder and a ton of baggage.

There are legitimate complaints, no doubt. They've all been listed in these topics and then some. But pretentious and cynical nonsense such as the content of that terrible article does nobody any favors.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
Interfectum said:
"ohhhh dissssssssssss"

Are we in the elementary school playground now? lol
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I was thinking more middle school.

I agree that the article got that part wrong. Its not that the audience didn't want those things, George just did a terrible job of presenting it to us. The prequels needs directors and writers who hadn't allowed their skills to atrophy at the helm. Also less yes men.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I feel like Johnson and Trevorrow now have so much elbow room story wise and creatively. JJ got the ball rolling successfully so let's see where it goes. I too hope VIII and on gets more experimental but I do think VII was "right." It's pretty much how I thought things would be when it came to the look and where the Empire/Republic would be at this point.

Also they did an amazing job making these new characters, they're just as fun for me as the original gang and that's kind of a big deal. Like how Finn is a big deal lol.
 
G

George Oscar Bluth II

Banned
You see a lot more negativity in these threads because this is where the nitpicking takes place. A lot of people who liked/loved it are either put off by the negativity and don't take part, or just post their initial thoughts and move on because they have nothing further to add (like me).
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
brandonh83 said:
I feel like Johnson and Trevorrow now have so much elbow room story wise and creatively. JJ got the ball rolling successfully so let's see where it goes. I too hope VIII and on gets more experimental but I do think VII was "right." It's pretty much how I thought things would be when it came to the look and where the Empire/Republic would be at this point.

Also they did an amazing job making these new characters, they're just as fun for me as the original gang and that's kind of a big deal. Like how Finn is a big deal lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's one of the biggest accomplishments from Episode 7, IMO. I really love the new cast and I can't wait to see where they take these characters.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Sotha_Sil said:
If he absolutely has to die, it should be to Kylo because, like with Vader, he refuses to kill a family member.
Click to expand...

Kylo Ren killing his uncle would be an underwhelming event after having killed his father in the latest episode. Luke probably won't see the end of the new trilogy, but I hope they find him a good exit. And he's probably still too young to pass away like Yoda, so I'm betting on a noble sacrifice of some sort. Or maybe a fight against Snorky.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
George Oscar Bluth II said:
You see a lot more negativity in these threads because this is where the nitpicking takes place. A lot of people who liked/loved it are either put off by the negativity and don't take part, or just post their initial thoughts and move on because they have nothing further to add (like me).
Click to expand...

Its usually the opposite, really. Give it a a few weeks and most people move on, and all that's left is just the people who are really emotionally invested in

Like compare "well this was a bit shit, now wasn't it" vibe of the first couple weeks of the MGSV spoiler OT, to when it died down and its mostly just the people who loved it.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
Daemul said:
The Force Priestess(well, there's 5 of them but they all used to be one person according to Filoni) who taught Yoda and Qui-Gon became a force spirit a long time back, so it seems one stays a force spirit forever, leaving room for Anakin, Obi Wan and Yoda to show up again, though whether they will is up to LucasFilm.

The vast majority of Jedi's don't become Force Spirits, Qui-Qon was the first Jedi to somewhat achieve it as far as we're aware. The trials one has to face are too much for your average Jedi to pass, even Yoda struggled.
Click to expand...

How did Anakin become a force ghost then if there are trials involved?
 
T

TheWarrior

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
I dunno, it's not like the OT really had crazy alien landscapes. You had desert planets, snowy planets, forest planets, swamp planets, etc. Only the prequels really got a little weirder with it.

Empire was the only OG one to really get more out there with Cloud City and the asteroid. TFA feels pretty in-line with the OG movies aesthetically, which is definitely why the played it like they did.
Click to expand...


It felt small, and I'm not trying to trash the movie, I am still hopeful for VIII. I still want to give VII a 2nd chance too. The OT definitely opened up in V, but still had this epic feel to it, there was something much larger out there. I was very disappointed with death star 3.0 and the first order/ resistance angle. A New Hope at least opened with some basic governmental and organizational structure.
I didn't hate the movie but I'm not in love with it.
 
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