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[SmokedMeat]

Most developers doing VR are indies.


The only thing that matters is if developers who’ve been working on VR games feel it’s declining. Doesn’t really matter what someone who hasn’t made a VR game thinks.

 

[MarkMe2525]

- Expensive add on
- Worse games than traditional games
- Brick on your head
- Can’t play together with friends and fam in the same room couch coop
- Need space to move around
- Most games seem skewed to first person. Not every gamer even likes first person games

So add it up and you got a limited gaming pool.

"Expensive add-on" and "Can’t play together with friends and fam in the same room couch coop" doesn't apply to the Quest platform. Shared space games are already a thing (albeit somewhat new) for Quest, and are possible on the new $299 headset. Some actually work on the Q2, but since that headset is EOL, it isn't that relevant.

 

[R6Rider]

- Expensive add on
- Worse games than traditional games
- Brick on your head
- Can’t play together with friends and fam in the same room couch coop
- Need space to move around
- Most games seem skewed to first person. Not every gamer even likes first person games

These two points are stupid. Things you are fully aware of and fully expected when using VR.

It's like buying a 2-seater sports car and listing the lack of space as a negative.

 

[rm082e]

I don't see VR gaining any significant ground, even as the display and GPU tech gets better. It's been a niche technology that has toy-like appeal to some, and a relatively small number of enthusiasts. Just making the hardware experience better isn't going to spark excitement among a bunch of people who weren't already into it. The experiences are what they are, and they don't have mass appeal.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

All it takes is one or two killer apps as well as reductions in cost to hardware and this can change overnight.

I'm *somewhat* interested in VR, but I'm waiting for the right games that interest me and the right price.

If Sony were to put out a wireless PSVR2, bundle that with say GT7 and Namco release Ace Combat 8 with full VR support.. and I'm pretty much sold.

The problem right now is that if you want the full VR experience with GT7 with a wheel and a racing chair, you're looking at a pretty penny. You've got to reduce the price of that experience. Especially if isn't going to be something you want to play all day every day.

We're probably a 10-15 years out from VR being mainstream, because it has to catch up with the advancements we see in gaming and technology around us.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

These two points are stupid. Things you are fully aware of and fully expected when using VR.

It's like buying a 2-seater sports car and listing the lack of space as a negative.

I owned an RX-7, 1995... absolutely loved the car. The lack of cupholders was absolutely a negative... Expectations vs experience.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I don’t want to wear a headset strapped to my face that cuts me off from the outside world, and pantomime my character’s actions. I’m fine sitting with my ass on the couch and controlling a game with minute finger motions.

Even having to sit upright and move your whole head/neck to aim gets really annoying after a while.

It’s one of those things that you think will be SO much better than gaming on a flat screen, until you try it. Just like Kinect and stereoscopic 3D.

 

[Gonzito]

And I just bought a Meta Quest 3, just great

 

[Tg89]

thank god.

onto the next gimmick.

 

[Spyxos]

After so many years few still only have few must have AAA titles. And then they are also spread across different platforms.

 

[rodrigolfp]

- Expensive add on
- Worse games than traditional games
- Can’t play together with friends and fam in the same room couch coop
- Need space to move around
- Most games seem skewed to first person. Not every gamer even likes first person games

-Quest 2 and 3 are not expensive.
-Not at immersion.
-Yes, you can.
-No you don't. Can play while sitting.
-Maybe because immersion is the point of VR.

 

[Lorianus]

As long as it consists of strapping 600g-1000g of equipement to your forehead it's gonna stay niche.

 

[HogIsland]

VR is one of the few cutting-edge frontiers in tech that actually works. Even though it's floundering, I think there will eventually be a breakthrough that makes it hit. I'm interested to see if non-invasive brain interfaces will solve the movement problem in VR. It seems possible that you could just think "forward" and move your character forward in a way that wouldn't trigger motion sickness.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

3. Hardware power needs to become far greater

Disagree, ps5 with dynamic foveated rendering prooved to be strong enough to run ps5 games (re4r, village, gt7), problem is with amount of hybrid games.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I don’t want to wear a headset strapped to my face that cuts me off from the outside world

Your loss. The point of VR is immersion.

Even having to sit upright and move your whole head/neck to aim gets really annoying after a while.

You don't need to move your head/neck as you aim with your hand.

 

[MarkMe2525]

And I just bought a Meta Quest 3, just great

I wouldn't put much stock in a single survey, where most who participated are not currently working on the VR market. There are some bangers around the corner. Batman just released and even though I thought it would be a shitty cash grab, it's awesome. Metro and Behemoth are also around the corner.

Edit: forgot to mention, Triangle Strategy releases on Oct 31st. Not everyones cup of tea, but looks like an awesome port, and it's cool to see Square Enix dipping their toe in VR.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Headline feels a little sensationalist to me, given the breakdown

Stagnating is the "neutral" choice, after all (stable market, neither declining nor gaining), and the headline should be that just over 1/3 of devs regard VR with this neutral view, that it's going to stick around at its current level but unsure if it will grow.

Of those who actually pick a side from the neutral point, you have about 1/4 of devs saying the VR market is growing, versus under 1/5 saying it's in decline. So if you chart this more like a Likert with stagnant as "undecided," the overall sentiment of developers is still leaning decidedly towards "growing" rather than "shrinking."

You can pull whatever headline you need out of reports like this, in the end.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I'm sorry to admit it, but the "magic" wore off for me. When I first got a VR headset, I was transported into the virtual world. After a few years of VR, I'm now very aware that I'm staring at screens on a heavy headset hung on my head.

The last game I played through was RE4 VR in 2023, and I haven't gone back since.

 

[XXL]

In my opinion (and this is very controversial among VR users) is that games need to stop VRifying every game. The VR crowd should accept games being VR but using regular controllers, but they don't. That way more bigger AAA games might be more interested in implementing it. Games like Battlefield would be insane in VR even if you were just playing with a controller.

And I love VR and VRified games, but between the cost of entry and learning a new way to play....its alot for newcomers to take in.

 

[R6Rider]

In my opinion (and this is very controversial among VR users) is that games need to stop VRifying every game. The VR crowd should accept games being VR but using regular controllers, but they don't. That way more bigger AAA games might be more interested in implementing it. Games like Battlefield would be insane in VR even if you were just playing with a controller.

And I love VR and VRified games, but between the cost of entry and learning a new way to play....its alot for newcomers to take in.

People wanted this option for Astro Bot and they chose not to. Why more devs don't at least offer the "VR camera/perspective" is often times surprising.

 

[Mossybrew]

I have the original PSVR. I've enjoyed some time with it. But at the end of the day, it's honestly more trouble than it's worth to me. It's a nice, unique experience on occassion, but the setup, space required, and having to have the helmet on the entire time that I play is just a huge tradeoff I'm not fond of. It's much more relaxing to just pick up a controller and jump into a game. I find playing on a huge 4K set to be plenty immersive. I don't need 360 degree insertion into the game world. Wow it can be pretty cool, it also becomes tiring. I don't feel like I'm "playing" a VR game. It's a lot of energy I expend. Just not what I am looking for in a daily gaming experience.

Well said, pretty much exactly how I felt about the original PSVR. I wouldn't say it was a total waste of money, because VR is an interesting thing to experience, but ultimately I am fine without it and had no interest in PSVR 2.

 

[Brock2621]

We need more games like Half Life: Alyx and it'll boom

 

[Tomofdahook17]

I think it's at the point where it won't really go any further commercially. Maybe for dedicated enthusiasts but that's about it until augmented reality starts really picking up.

The headsets are just too bulky, too much time and effort to set up, etc.

 

[XXL]

We need more games like Half Life: Alyx and it'll boom

There are a bunch of games as good as Half Life Aylx.

I've played Alyx it's absolutely amazing, but people really need to stop acting like there isn't anything as good available.

Even within the series, Half Life 2 VR is just as fucking good.

 

[mrqs]

The whole VR format is busted. I've been a believer since before Oculus existed, and the dream vision is pretty great.

But even after using VR for 10 years, it's still mildly uncomfortable, 1% of the games are actually worth the hassle, and it's not better and more efficient as a productivity tool than just a smartphone and laptop.

We need elemental changes in how the headset works (it'll take 8 years+), then we need to understand that walking around in VR will never, ever work, and it's not supposed to. Sure, a percentage of people don't mind, but the masses can't handle that. I love gaming and most of the time not even I can handle that. It's a fact, "VR legs" aren't real.

I don't believe VR has any future in the short term. Meta will absolutely focus on AR glasses (some just with notifications on the glass, some with full-blown 3D experiences) and that's it for now. That has a future. That's useful.

VR will still be niche for the time being. We need two more generational leaps in technology to make it really comfortable and useful. And when VR gets there, we might already have really strong AR adoption.

 

[Romulus]

It’s one of those things that you think will be SO much better than gaming on a flat screen, until you try it. Just like Kinect and stereoscopic 3D.

It's the opposite. When people try VR they are blown away that it actually works better than advertised because they listened to people with your thought process.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The headsets are just too bulky, too much time and effort to set up, etc.

I think the time and effort aspect of your argument is overstated. I'm not sure what headset you have experience with, but you just put the quest on and select which game you want. As far as initial set up goes, it takes less time than the initial set up of a modern smartphone.

I would agree with the bulky part, to a degree. While the "bulk" of these devices has been reduced significantly, from the early days of VR, there is still lots of room for improvement. I can't imagine an all in one integrated device getting much smaller than a Q3 anytime soon. They would have to go the puck route, like the AVP, to get meaningful size reduction.

 

[R6Rider]

I think the time and effort aspect of your argument is overstated. I'm not sure what headset you have experience with, but you just put the quest on and select which game you want. As far as initial set up goes, it takes less time than the initial set up of a modern smartphone.

Playing PSVR2 is also very quick and easy, especially if you leave the headset plugged in. I simply pick it up and turn it on.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Most developers doing VR are indies.


The only thing that matters is if developers who’ve been working on VR games feel it’s declining. Doesn’t really matter what someone who hasn’t made a VR game thinks.

This. There are new games coming out practically weekly at this point, and many of them are great with unparalleled immersion levels.

Most of these same developers asked also have insanely over-bloated budgets, thinks it's okay to have non-binary knitting clubs during work hours, and want to think of new ways to monetize you to hell and back for their browbeating slacktivist virtue signal messaging in games.

Get back to the basics.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

We need elemental changes in how the headset works (it'll take 8 years+), then we need to understand that walking around in VR will never, ever work, and it's not supposed to. Sure, a percentage of people don't mind, but the masses can't handle that. I love gaming and most of the time not even I can handle that. It's a fact, "VR legs" aren't real.

The adaptation is absolutely real, because I had it.

When I first started with VR, moving with the stick was instantly nausea inducing. I even turned on the strong "tunnel effect" for the PC Minecraft VR build in order to make it easier. It wasn't for a few months until I got used to it -- and after that, I now have absolutely zero negative feeling from using full stick movement in action heavy games.

 

[Wonko_C]

VR is one of the few cutting-edge frontiers in tech that actually works. Even though it's floundering, I think there will eventually be a breakthrough that makes it hit. I'm interested to see if non-invasive brain interfaces will solve the movement problem in VR. It seems possible that you could just think "forward" and move your character forward in a way that wouldn't trigger motion sickness.

Wait, forward movement can actually make people motion sick? That never happened to me, it was turning that did it for me, some games were worse than others, for example: DriveClub's turns made me sick before finishing a single race, while I could play several GT Sport races without issue.

Playing PSVR2 is also very quick and easy, especially if you leave the headset plugged in. I simply pick it up and turn it on.

That's how I used my PSVR1. The "mess of cables" thing was an issue for me only once: The day I purchased and unboxed it.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Sure, a percentage of people don't mind, but the masses can't handle that. I love gaming and most of the time not even I can handle that. It's a fact, "VR legs" aren't real.

That percentage would be a majority of the population, you are extrapolating from your anecdotal experience. "VR legs" are real, as is evident from the many people (including me) who have grown tolerant to motion in VR. Motion sickness is literally a perception issue and the mind can be trained to accept it. The mind isn't static.

I do agree that it is niche, the sales numbers show that. I also agree that it's going to take a few more technical leaps forward before it's ready for mass adoption. It needs to excell in comfort and ease of use.

 

[RoboFu]

I mean people can only play beat saber so much.

 

[Techies]

Entry barrier for VR is too high and not enough VR owners around to warrant devs to create AAA quality titles for it.

Its made worse with no one go to VR peripheral without worrying the unit might end up abandoned a year or two after release.

Quest3s is cheaper than ps5 and around the same as an xbox series s

 

[Techies]

I mean people can only play beat saber so much.

Well we have batman now.

 

[RoboFu]

Well we have batman now.

I hope it's really good because the last big name game o bought was assassins creed and it was crap.

 

[Dorago]

There needs to be force feedback in the hands or it doesn't matter. And not just some waggling but actual touch that takes advantage of our finger's innate sensitivity. You need a fishing game that will pull the pole out of your hands or a sword game where you can feel the weight of it, etc. The PS5 controller kind of does a decent job of this with its triggers but the whole damn thing needs to have these features.

 

[HogIsland]

There needs to be force feedback in the hands or it doesn't matter. And not just some waggling but actual touch that takes advantage of our finger's innate sensitivity. You need a fishing game that will pull the pole out of your hands or a sword game where you can feel the weight of it, etc. The PS5 controller kind of does a decent job of this with its triggers but the whole damn thing needs to have these features.

Is there any conceivable way to achieve this without wearing more shit? I think the current VR experience needs less intrusive shit you wear to be successful. If Apple intro'd the Vision Pro and it was the size/weight of ski goggles, that would be a meaningful step forward.

 

[Brock2621]

There are a bunch of games as good as Half Life Aylx.

I've played Alyx it's absolutely amazing, but people really need to stop acting like there isn't anything as good available.

Even within the series, Half Life 2 VR is just as fucking good.

would you mind posting a list? I’m not super deep into VR but play often

 

[Shadowstar39]

Because they are fucking over priced and not everyone can play VR without getting sick.

This. Its also annoying for people with glasses.

My quest 2 was awesome but ever since I moved i really don't have large area needed.

Any more than 20 minutes and I start to feel sick.

The prices raised not got less. Quest 2 sold great because it was the same price as the switch.

Oh not many good games.
There are some excellent ones like RacketNG where you play racket ball in a 360 sphere and can do it with a friend.
But there is no first person plaformers. I envisioned, playing a platformer and bouncing on trampolines high in the sky to other platforms, looking down and seeing the ground giving way. We didn't get anything like that.

The best thing has been modders putting doom and half-life on quest.

 

[sono]

Most people have never tried it
There is no way to try before you buy; not sure why the industry does not provide trial stations in retail

 

[Rush2112]

We should have gotten half life 3 instead we got that alyx bullshit because gabe newell wanted to sell VR sets.

VR killed half life 3

 

[poppabk]

We should have gotten half life 3 instead we got that alyx bullshit because gabe newell wanted to sell VR sets.

VR killed half life 3

20 years since HL2, 4 years since HL:Alyx. Any sign of HL3? VR is the only reason we got anything.

 

[Crayon]

It's been touch and go the whole time. I hoped for more, but it's still pretty awesome if you are already sold on it.

There's one sign of steady progress - The "experiences and tech demos" derpsong has not been true for quite awhile and it's further in the rearview all the time. It's not enough yet for most people to feel like they're missing anything, though.

The stuff has to be cheaper. I love vr but I really don't have a lot of good opportunities to have a sesh the way I want to. Plus it has to compete with all these amazing flat games, even if most of them would be better in a headset with minimal changes.

So it's a tough to justify hundreds of dollars for something that you won't get a lot of use of. I knew going in that a $550 psvr2 was only going to get 5% of my playtime, but hey when I want it, there's no replacement. If you're playing GT7 on a flat screen, my deepest condolences.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

We all talk about Alyx, but I'd even just like Valve to make other VR games. "The Lab" was amazing, still one of the most fun intros to VR you can give someone. Its Portal experience could have easily been expanded into a real robot repair game.

 

[XXL]

would you mind posting a list? I’m not super deep into VR but play often

Sure.

Half Life 1 VR (PCVR)
Half Life 2 VR (PCVR)
Half Life Alyx (PCVR)
Gran Turismo 7 (PSVR 2)
Resident Evil 7 (PSVR 1, maybe PSVR 2 update coming)
Resident Evil 8 (PSVR 2)
Resident Evil 4 (PSVR 2)
Synapse (PSVR 2)
Flight Simulator (PCVR)
Astro Bot Rescue Mission (PSVR 1)
Skyrim VR (PCVR, PSVR 1)
Subside (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Red Matter (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Red Matter 2 (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Pavlov TTT (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Super Hot (PCVR/PSVR 1)
Vertigo (PCVR)
Vertigo 2 (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Boneworks (PCVR)
BoneLabs (PCVR)
Alien Isolation Mother VR Mod (PCVR)
UEVR Mod (PCVR)

Are all a good place to start getting into the really good ones...once you have your VR legs.

They aren't all as good as Alyx, but they are all absolutely fucking amazing games.

 

[Dacvak]

If blockbuster still existed, I bet VR would be a great weekend rental for a lot of folks.

 

[Crayon]

Sure.

Half Life 1 VR (PCVR)
Half Life 2 VR (PCVR)
Half Life Alyx (PCVR)
Gran Turismo 7 (PSVR 2)
Resident Evil 7 (PSVR 1, maybe PSVR 2 update coming)
Resident Evil 8 (PSVR 2)
Resident Evil 4 (PSVR 2)
Synapse (PSVR 2)
Flight Simulator (PCVR)
Astro Bot Rescue Mission (PSVR 1)
Skyrim VR (PCVR, PSVR 1)
Subside (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Red Matter (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Red Matter 2 (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Pavlov TTT (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Super Hot (PCVR/PSVR 1)
Vertigo (PCVR)
Vertigo 2 (PCVR/PSVR 2)
Boneworks (PCVR)
BoneLabs (PCVR)
Alien Isolation Mother VR Mod (PCVR)
UEVR Mod (PCVR)

Are all a good place to start getting into the really good ones...once you have your VR legs.

They aren't all as good as Alyx, but they are all absolutely fucking amazing games.

No Mans Sky and Walking Dead!

 

[XXL]

No Mans Sky and Walking Dead!

Can't believe I forgot about NMS.....and Walking Dead 1 and 2.

NMS is soooo good in VR.

Speaking of NMS.....I want to know more about Light No Fire and it better support VR.

God this looks soooo good.

 

[gothmog]

The only thing people hate more than VR is gyro.