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[The Artisan]

Do you honestly believe that? The first game is only 20 years old or so.
It's simple enough, really: if it's been stated at some point (in official material such as an official site, instructions booklet or some official guide) that those characters died, it's a retcon. Otherwise, it isn't.

Yes I do. But my personal belief here really should not have to be a problem for others. My own recollection and the fact that this series has had a lot of retcons are the only things to go off of, but I am not forcing everyone to agree with me here

 

[Erigu]

Yes I do.

Well, I'm sorry but that's a tad ridiculous. The Tekken series has never been obscure, and with the internet being how it is... If there was evidence, you can bet it's still out there.

 

[Numb]

Y'all know Mokujin is the truth

 

[karasu]

What do you guys think Akuma's entry means for the series? Are the Satsui no Hado and the Devil gene related somehow? I know they aren't the same thing. The Satsui no Hado seems to show up when a fighter is at the peak whereas the devil gene appears when a fighter is at their lowest. I wonder if they have a common origin though. Imagine if he and Kazumi were a couple at one point. That's a lot of fucking evil.

 

[The Artisan]

Well, I'm sorry but that's a tad ridiculous. The Tekken series has never been obscure, and with the internet being how it is... If there was evidence, you can bet it's still out there.

It most certainly always has been...like I said, this series has had retcons, minor to major. Going from Tekken 2-4, it was established that Lei Wulong was ethnically Chinese. Then in Tekken 5 he was retconned into being American with Chinese heritage. If you look on the internet there is no documentation of such retcon but if you played the games, you would notice this difference.

But again (I'm guessing you did not read the rest of my post), we don't need to focus this thread entirely on my stance on all this. Let's agree to disagree, and move on.

 

[Erigu]

It most certainly always has been...

Okay, that's utter bullshit.

Going from Tekken 2-4, it was established that Lei Wulong was ethnically Chinese. Then in Tekken 5 he was retconned into being American with Chinese heritage.

No, he wasn't.

 

[The Artisan]

Okay, that's utter bullshit.
No, he wasn't.

Yes he was. Did you not play Tekken 4 and 5?

And why is it so difficult for you to let this go? We don't need to have this be all about me and my unpopular opinions. There's so much other shit we can talk about.

 

[karasu]

What makes you think Lei Wulong is american? He's still a Hong Kong Cop. In Tekken 6 he was trying to arrest Feng Wei.

 

[The Artisan]

What makes you think Lei Wulong is american? He's still a Hong Kong Cop. In Tekken 6 he was trying to arrest Feng Wei.

He was speaking with an American accent in Tekken 5. He wasn't portrayed that way in the previous installment.

 

[karasu]

I think they did that because Jackie Chan started making American movies and speaking English all of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTIjyY1rhmE

His English was accented in Tekken 5. Its like Lili. She's from Monaco but the only place she speaks French is in TTT2.

 

[The Artisan]

I think they did that because Jackie Chan started making American movies and speaking English all of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTIjyY1rhmE

His English was accented in Tekken 5. Its like Lili. She's from Monaco but the only place she speaks French is in TTT2.

and in T7, I think. And these are, to me, examples of retcons. Minor retcons, but still examples of retroactive continuity nonetheless

edit: wow, that win pose is interesting because in his ending he sounds completely different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxct8OXiHlw

that's an inconsistency right in one installment

 

[Erigu]

We don't need to have this be all about me and my unpopular opinions. There's so much other shit he was talking about.

The problem with your opinions isn't that they're unpopular, it's that they're completely unsubstantiated.

He was speaking with an American accent in Tekken 5.

His accent? You've got to be kidding me.
Look, his Tekken 5 bio says he's Chinese. Case closed. No retcon there.

these are, to me, examples of retcons.

Lili has always been from Monaco, so no, that's not an example of retcon.

 

[The Artisan]

The problem with your opinions isn't that they're unpopular, it's that they're completely unsubstantiated.

There is no problem unless you are trying to start one. Perhaps our perspectives of retcons are different as well. In any case, for the 3rd time now, why can you not let this go so we can talk about something else? Why must you insist on pressing me on?

His accent? You've got to be kidding me.
Look, his Tekken 5 bio says he's Chinese. Case closed. Not retcon there.

No, I am not kidding you. If someone speaks with an accent that implies they are of an ethnicity and all of a sudden it's gone, that's changing something about the character as if the previous representation never happened. This is a (minor) retcon.

Lili has always been from Monaco, so no, that's not an example of retcon.

And yet she talks like an American in Tekken 5. I'm starting to think you just want to make this personal. I'm getting tired of explaining myself to you.

 

[Erigu]

If someone speaks with an accent that implies they are of an ethnicity and all of a sudden it's gone, that's changing something about the character as if the previous representation never happened. This is a (minor) retcon.

A change of voice actor isn't a retcon. Or by that logic, you could also argue that the character models getting more polygons as the series goes on is another retcon.

 

[karasu]

and in T7, I think. And these are, to me, examples of retcons. Minor retcons, but still examples of retroactive continuity nonetheless

edit: wow, that win pose is interesting because in his ending he sounds completely different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxct8OXiHlw

that's an inconsistency right in one installment

Yeah they really didn't put a high priority on consistency with that accent. But most fighters are the same way. Regardless of the origin of the character they will either speak with perfect Japanese or English accents.

 

[The Artisan]

A change of voice actor isn't a retcon. Or by that logic, you could also argue that the character models getting more polygons as the series goes on is another retcon.

I'm just gonna get straight to the point with you: Why can't you just let this go, agree to disagree, and move on?

Yeah they really didn't put a high priority on consistency with that accent. But most fighters are the same way. Regardless of the origin of the character they will either speak with perfect Japanese or English accents.

I haven't really paid attention to it with other fighting games. Tekken's just one I played a lot growing up and what I liked most about it was the story, so I noticed all the little inconsistencies.

 

[Erigu]

I'm just gonna get straight to the point with you: Why can't you just let this go, agree to disagree, and move on?

I'm simply pointing out that you're factually wrong. And not just when it comes to that retcon matter either: the idea that some official story details could be "lost to time" or that the series has always been obscure (with those sales numbers, really?) is pretty silly.

Based on our discussion, chances are you'll just reply that you're not changing your mind anyway "and let's agree to disagree", and that's an attitude I can't quite fathom. Ah, well.

 

[The Artisan]

I'm simply pointing out that you're factually wrong. And not just when it comes to that retcon matter either: the idea that some official story details could be "lost to time" or that the series has always been obscure (with those sales numbers, really?) is pretty silly.

Based on our discussion, chances are you'll just reply that you're not changing your mind anyway "and let's agree to disagree", and that's an attitude I can't quite fathom. Ah, well.

You guessed right, because you aren't convincing me. I'm sorry I don't have a pensieve to show you why I think what I do, but you still haven't answered me: Why can't you just drop this and move on? If there's no problem here, then there should be no problem in us to begin discussing something else in the wonderful world of tekken!

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

So I'm going to detail my idea for a T7 back before and during TTT2's release. I had honestly really wanted a job at Namco, even as a freelancer or something, to make this happen.

-an unconscious Jin was saved by Zafina and brought back to her village to heal.
-there he finds his mother, Jun, helping him recover and his Devil gene removed from within and sealed in a crystal ball after defeating Azazel.
-Heihachi, sensing the "cleansing" of the Devil gene, retreats to the mountains to live out the rest of his life in peace and tranquility in solitude.
-Kazuya barely clings to his sanity upon losing the Devil inside of him (sealed when Jin defeated Azazel) as he realizes all of his actions, deeds and glory were the result of something other than his own innate skills.
-he attacks several people on the way to his estate and locks himself inside, continuing his descent into madness.
-Lars, wanting to know more about his bloodline, seeks out Heihachi in the mountains.
-Heihachi welcomes the company and the two train and meditate together while catching up and sharing tales.
-Lars mentions how Jin had been found and that the Devil was sealed in a crystal, thus ending the chaos.
-Heihachi, intrigued by this news and impressed with Lars' skills, decides to host a Tekken League*.
-He secretly hopes to lure Jin in an attempt to discover the whereabouts of this "Devil crystal".



*So this new tournament is set up more like a league in sports. Teams of three are separated by regions, each having their own home fighting stage and home crowds and play to reach the playoffs and championship fight based on their W/L record. Three fighters per team, two per fight (tag style) with one on the bench who can be swapped in and out between matches. Characters with the lowest health after a match don't fully heal thus giving incentive to swap them out, but it could be your better character causing you to rethink benching them. Crowds provide meter boost, cheering damaging counters, combos, unblockables and other special moves. Meter is used to perform special partner moves with unique animations. Story mode has predecided teams and home turfs while arcade and MP, of course, have customizable teams.

Why three characters per team? This was to help segue into a new cast. For example, Nina and Anna partner up with the daughter of a friend of their father. She possesses traits from each of them and her own original style. So a Tekken 8 could feature this new chick in place of Nina and Anna to progress the story that no doubt reunleashes the Devil into the wild or has fighters fighting in a tournament proper for control of the crystal (complete with their endings showcasing what they'd do with said crystal).

I'm not going to get into each idea I had for new characters and teams and whatnot. I just wanted to provide my general outline for the "main" plot thread and basics behind the new system I thought up. Would you have wanted these ideas in a Tekken game?

 

[karasu]

Interesting ideas. I don't like what you did to Kazuya though haha. That character has been getting the short end of the stick ever since Heihachi threw him down that mountain. Was it a volcano? Whatev.

 

[Creaking]

Interesting ideas. I don't like what you did to Kazuya though haha. That character has been getting the short end of the stick ever since Heihachi threw him down that mountain. Was it a volcano? Whatev.

Thrown into a ravine when he was a kid, then he made a deal with the devil, came back and kicked Heihachi's old man butt and threw him into the ravine, then Heihachi came back and kicked his young man butt and threw him into a volcano.

 

[Erigu]

You guessed right, because you aren't convincing me. I'm sorry I don't have a pensieve to show you why I think what I do, but you still haven't answered me: Why can't you just drop this and move on? If there's no problem here, then there should be no problem in us to begin discussing something else in the wonderful world of tekken!

I'm just not sure how fruitful a discussion can be when you're apparently perfectly fine with making unsubstantiated claims and disregarding facts. That's why I'm insisting.
But if this is lost on you, well...

 

[Talon]

Tekken's story is arguably the deepest as a whole in all fighting game lore. It has different transitions and such. Hell Tekken's story as a whole is better than most games and their story. As much as I love Megaman for example, if you compare a whole series of that to the Tekken series then Tekken's deeper.

Really scraping at the bottom of the barrel here.

 

[The Artisan]

I'm just not sure how fruitful a discussion can be when you're apparently perfectly fine with making unsubstantiated claims and disregarding facts. That's why I'm insisting.
But if this is lost on you, well...

If you're not sure, let me help you be sure: there's far, far, faaaar more to discuss in this thread than just the retcons. so I have no idea why you want to be stuck and dwell on that. did you even look at my OP?

 

[Erigu]

If you're not sure, let me help you be sure: there's far, far, faaaar more to discuss in this thread than just the retcons.

I didn't say anything about retcons specifically, there.

 

[The Artisan]

I didn't say anything about retcons specifically, there.

then it looks like you're assuming you know everything about me based off of one disagreement here.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Interesting ideas. I don't like what you did to Kazuya though haha. That character has been getting the short end of the stick ever since Heihachi threw him down that mountain. Was it a volcano? Whatev.

I imagined Kazuya descending into madness because something had to give for all that he's been through as a result of the devil and his bloodline. I wanted character development beyond "now I'm the boss, take that!" "No, I'm the boss now, look out" "Oh yeah? Well look what I can do as the new boss!" etc. I'd forgotten to add more thread points for him in my layout as he's an important player.

-Lost in his mind, he can still feel the devil.
-When Heihachi announces the league, Kazuya puts himself into a state of faux normalcy to find a team to enter, sensing Heihachi is up to something. (For a visual, I keep picturing Gary Oldman in The Professional after popping a pill as Kazuya snaps in and out of sanity)

 

[Cyber Caesar]

I had honestly really wanted a job at Namco, even as a freelancer or something, to make this happen.
Would you have wanted these ideas in a Tekken game?

Interesting ideas. The premise is fresh and really would shake things up in a big way. I like that you took so many risks with removing the devil gene. I like the Heihachi Lars part the most. I'd like to see those two characters interact more. I'd be great to see some light shed on this part of Heihachi's past. Who is Lars' mother.

If Tekken ever decided to make a RPG it could do so based entirely on backstories to existing characters. Tekken has so many untapped facets.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Interesting ideas. The premise is fresh and really would shake things up in a big way. I like that you took so many risks with removing the devil gene. I like the Heihachi Lars part the most. I'd like to see those two characters interact more. I'd be great to see some light shed on this part of Heihachi's past. Who is Lars' mother.

If Tekken ever decided to make a RPG it could do so based entirely on backstories to existing characters. Tekken has so many untapped facets.

Thanks. Other than the story, I really wanted the Tekken League idea. It allowed for a canon tag game and offered new ideas for casuals and competitive crowds alike. Namco could have included all kinds of dlc for team packages and what not and the crash show could have had a new layer and layout. I'd leave the fighting mechanics to the pros, but I wanted to work on story and league layout damnit.

 

[AAK]

*So this new tournament is set up more like a league in sports. Teams of three are separated by regions, each having their own home fighting stage and home crowds and play to reach the playoffs and championship fight based on their W/L record. Three fighters per team, two per fight (tag style) with one on the bench who can be swapped in and out between matches. Characters with the lowest health after a match don't fully heal thus giving incentive to swap them out, but it could be your better character causing you to rethink benching them. Crowds provide meter boost, cheering damaging counters, combos, unblockables and other special moves. Meter is used to perform special partner moves with unique animations. Story mode has predecided teams and home turfs while arcade and MP, of course, have customizable teams.

Why three characters per team? This was to help segue into a new cast. For example, Nina and Anna partner up with the daughter of a friend of their father. She possesses traits from each of them and her own original style. So a Tekken 8 could feature this new chick in place of Nina and Anna to progress the story that no doubt reunleashes the Devil into the wild or has fighters fighting in a tournament proper for control of the crystal (complete with their endings showcasing what they'd do with said crystal).

I'm not going to get into each idea I had for new characters and teams and whatnot. I just wanted to provide my general outline for the "main" plot thread and basics behind the new system I thought up. Would you have wanted these ideas in a Tekken game?

I still am clamoring for a 3v3 Tekken!

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I still am clamoring for a 3v3 Tekken!

Ha! I remember those.

I miss TZ.

 

[Playsage]

I still am clamoring for a 3v3 Tekken!

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!?
It looks "a bit"... crowded

Sincerely, guys, Tekken: KOF edition would be kind of a mess
- Playing 3 characters at a time would make Tekken even more inaccessable than it already is for newcomers
- You really want a roster of that size? Expect like a billion of "clones" and I'm already stuffed with those we already have
- 6 characters on screen = sacrifices on technical and graphics departments

 

[Cyber Caesar]

What do you guys think Akuma's entry means for the series? Are the Satsui no Hado and the Devil gene related somehow? I know they aren't the same thing. The Satsui no Hado seems to show up when a fighter is at the peak whereas the devil gene appears when a fighter is at their lowest. I wonder if they have a common origin though. Imagine if he and Kazumi were a couple at one point. That's a lot of fucking evil.

I'm not sure how they're going to explain Akuma in the Tekken universe.

Akuma might travel between dimensions in order to hone his fighting skills. Akuma is just that badass.

 

[Dereck]

What do you guys think Akuma's entry means for the series?

 

[Playsage]

Ahahahahahah

Now I'm curious to see what kind of bullshit Harada's going to make up in Order to include Akuma in the story

 

[Neoxon]

So you guys think that Akuma will actually kill off Heihachi & Kazuya. And regardless of if that occurs, will Jin get involved or will he just sit back, grab some popcorn, & enjoy the show?

 

[karasu]

I'm not sure how they're going to explain Akuma in the Tekken universe.

Akuma might travel between dimensions in order to hone his fighting skills. Akuma is just that badass.

It seems like Street Fighter and Tekken are in a shared universe though. That conversation between him and Kazumi took place before the first Tekken tournament. That blows my mind. Did they do any universe bending shenanigans in the SF/Tekken versus game to explain things?

 

[TheSpoiler]

SF and Tekken can't happen at the same time. There are many world events that occur where the SF fighters would be forced to notice. Ogre going around killing people, the Tekken tournies, strong fighters just wandering the earth, and Bison's people never fucking with the Zabatisu estate?

I have no idea how Harada is planning on making this shit canon.

 

[The Artisan]

perhaps akuma is only going to be there as a "what if" instead of the canon story? that's what tekken blood vengeance was also.

 

[karasu]

SF and Tekken can't happen at the same time. There are many world events that occur where the SF fighters would be forced to notice. Ogre going around killing people, the Tekken tournies, strong fighters just wandering the earth, and Bison's people never fucking with the Zabatisu estate?

I have no idea how Harada is planning on making this shit canon.

Maybe because of the time skip they did with Tekken 3 the events aren't properly synched? And Capcom is always going backwards. Street Fighter IV takes place before Street Fighter 3 for example.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Akuma has almost limitless powers. Having Akuma bend space and time to travel between dimensions isn't a bad idea. Kazumi seems very mystical by design. Kazumi may have a way to commune with Akuma. I think writing a shared universe is a bad idea. Too many inconsistencies. SFXTekken was a hypothetical. Tekken 7 is very official. We fans care about this Akuma detail, but Namco is probably just having a good laugh at all this.

 

[karasu]

Limitless power? He can't even fly. I wonder what the debt is between the two of them though.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Limitless power? He can't even fly. I wonder what the debt is between the two of them though.

Flying is clearly overrated if Akuma doesn't want to master it. Did you see what Akuma did to Bison in SF2?

 

[karasu]

Haha that was so cheap. Akuma gives no fucks about tournaments and rules.

 

[Via Purifico]

Akuma has almost limitless powers. Having Akuma bend space and time to travel between dimensions isn't a bad idea. Kazumi seems very mystical by design. Kazumi may have a way to commune with Akuma. I think writing a shared universe is a bad idea. Too many inconsistencies. SFXTekken was a hypothetical. Tekken 7 is very official. We fans care about this Akuma detail, but Namco is probably just having a good laugh at all this.

In all honesty this was a concept that should have been saved for Tekken x Street Fighter.

 

[Loona]

I'm not sure how they're going to explain Akuma in the Tekken universe.

Akuma might travel between dimensions in order to hone his fighting skills. Akuma is just that badass.

In Namco X Capcom Gouki is able to do just that, as can Ryu when he goes Satsui no Hadou in that game, which was made by Namco...

 

[Inuhanyou]

I can't stand how they are handling Akuma's inclusion into Tekken.

If your really saying he's not a guest character and your fully immersing him into all of Tekken lore, fine, i don't care as long as you do it right...but how they are doing it now s completely stupid.

How can anyone make the argument that Akuma is a Tekken character if your not even going to adapt his moveset to Tekken in the first place!? He plays just like he does in SF4 complete with his own fricken super gauge.

If your not going to bother making an actual character that feels like they are supposed to be in this world from the beginning, dont even bother doing it

 

[joecanada]

Y'all know Mokujin is the truth

Yep and if you mained this guy like a friend of mines did, then you were truly legend

 

[Pachimari]

I would love a 3v3 Tag 3 game.

What are we talking about in here anyway?

Lei Wulong is Chinese through and through. Jun has gone missing, and isn't dead. Wang and Bruce survived Ogre's attack. Also, Akumal is canon, not a guest character.

Anyway, what nationality is Mokujin?

 

[CrispyBoar]

I would love a 3v3 Tag 3 game.

What are we talking about in here anyway?

Lei Wulong is Chinese through and through. Jun has gone missing, and isn't dead. Wang and Bruce survived Ogre's attack. Also, Akuma is canon, not a guest character.

Anyway, what nationality is Mokujin?

Wang & Bruce were never attacked by Ogre at all; Only King I, Jun, & Baek were. And neither Jun or Baek were dead by him.

The nonsense that you heard about Wang, Bruce, etc. being attacked by Ogre were based from fan theories/fan sites, not from official statements.