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[worldrunover]

This has been going on for years.

TUROK 2 5/5 OMG!!1!!

 

[Keio]

But Turok 2 wasn't AS BAD AS Driver 3.

How a buggy mess like D3 even got through Microsoft/Sony approval is a shocker. There is a quote which is claimed to be from a MS QA guy who claims that the deparment never saw the finished code. Hard to verify, of course. But money may have been changing hands...

 

[explodet]

There is also a massive (nearly 30 pages) thread on the Driver 3 review controversy on the Future Publishing website. Interesting - with a few editors and magazine contributors giving their opinions + the official publisher line.

The thread can be found here.

Whoo, 29 pages. I love a good controversy, I does!

Some of those bug/feature descriptions are great. And that flying car cracks me up every time.

 

[Mr_Furious]

How a buggy mess like D3 even got through Microsoft/Sony approval is a shocker. There is a quote which is claimed to be from a MS QA guy who claims that the deparment never saw the finished code. Hard to verify, of course. But money may have been changing hands...

MS/Sony/Nintendo will usually let games pass even though they may still be "buggy". The Publisher agrees to assume all responsibility for the sku in submission. The big 3 mostly care about their TRCs which is usually quite hard to get them to budge. An open ended game like D3 is a nightmare to debug and with Atari pressured to deliver, they waived the obvious bugs being caught by the reviewers. Now I'm not defending Atari at all here. I'm just clarifying the QA processes. Crap like invisible walls, buggy controls, crappy collision and just overall bad design isn't really a "show stopper" (i.e. Class A bug) and can usually get waived in time (if it's even considered a bug at all).

 

[Cold Shadow]

If I were to hazard a guess at a game review where I would have to say there was money involved it would be Timesplitters 2, especially since it got a unexplainable 9 in Edge. It was complete shit and I was even banned from the Edge forum for saying it was a repeat of their Turok 2 incident. Its the only of the very few times where I have hugely disagreed with a Edge score.

WTF Fuck you TS2 Rox

 

[Saint Cornelius]

worldrunover, that is the coolest fucking avatar I've ever seen! Cheers.

 

[Keio]

Didn't Angel of Darkness get delayed numerous times by Sony disapproval?

According to forum reports, Driver 3 is also crashing e.g. completely freezing at times. This is confirmed by a colleague, who is currently battling through the game to have the right to slate is to his hearts content (though he claims to enjoy the feel of the basic driving - which is probably true, since Reflections has had that right since the first Driver). I expect colourful language.

 

[Mr_Furious]

Didn't Angel of Darkness get delayed numerous times by Sony disapproval?

I don't know what happened to AoD regarding Sony. There's also concept approval that all products are forced to go through with Sony and maybe the game was tentatively approved pending future builds to see if the quality improved. AoD might have also been a serious offender of Sony's TRC requirements. But to be honest, I have no idea what the situation was with AoD and Sony so these are just guesses on my part based off what I've witnessed and experienced on multiple occasions.

 

[dark10x]

Angel of Darkness was an odd case...

I actually finished the game, but I did not encounter any of the bugs (with 1 exception) mentioned by many others. I DID witness a couple of severe issues one another machine, but I personally made it through the game almost completely glitch free.

I saw glitches in DRIV3R in just 10 minutes of play, though...

 

[Bat]

The journalistic standards in this industry are in need of a major overhaul. This is widespread problem and if hte industry ever wants to be considered something more than a 2nd rate entertainment segment, improvements need to be made.

 

[Ranger X]

I say: Trust yourself and that's it. And don't ever buy a fucking game on trust from magazines or people on a gaming board. Rent. I've never regret being like that.

 

[Ferrarisimo]

The culprit right now is Atari with DRIV3R

What horse sh1t is that? The culprits are the hacks that masquerade as journalists that even begin to consider such a deal with a publisher. I know of less than a handful of publications that would have cut off relations with such publishers entirely if that was ever suggested to them, but rags and sites that pander to this BS are ass-stains on this industry.

 

[WarPig]

As mentioned in another thread, Edge had to buy their own copy of GTA 3 because rockstar wouldn't let them have review code unless it got a 9+ score.

To my knowledge, that's not true. It would seem highly unlikely to me, anyway, because Rockstar didn't start playing serious hardball with mags until after GTA3 blew up. Until GTA3 became such a huge hit, they had to scratch for coverage like anyone else -- OPM and IGN were the only outfits who gave the game a significant push prior to its release.

The situation involving Edge and GTA3 was supposedly a bit more complicated than that. According to a fellow I once met who got the story from a relation of his at Rockstar North, Edge threw some kind of massive tantrum at Rockstar because of the GTA3 preview exclusives given to IGN. In response, Rockstar simply cut them off from any coverage of the game period, hence they had to buy their own review copy.

DFS.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I'm glad I don't buy magazines anymore

fixed

 

[Mystifizor]

*rofl*

 

[Jonnyboy117]

5/5 out of five for Turok 2 is not that absurd. I would give it 4/5 myself on the same kind of scale, and I'm sure there are people who like it more than I do.

 

[Acosta]

Until GTA3 became such a huge hit, they had to scratch for coverage like anyone else -- OPM and IGN were the only outfits who gave the game a significant push prior to its release.

Every PC Gamer UK reader know the stoy of Rockstar not sending review copy of PC version of GTA 3 to PC Gamer because they refused to put it at cover, so they had to translate the review one month later.

 

[XboxGamers]

Link

In its first three days of worldwide release, 2.5 million units of DRIV3R have shipped to retailers, Atari announced today. Though the latest cinematic action game from Reflections debuted earlier this week to a very mixed critical reception, it looks like its initial performance at retail will be favorable.
"Our worldwide shipment is right in line with our plan for DRIV3R," said Atari founder Bruno Bonnell. "The global Driver fan base is as robust and passionate as ever, as indicated by retail reaction in the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, and other key territories."

The 2.5 million figure of course refers only to units sold in to retailers, not sold through to consumers. A clear picture of just how many consumers picked up the game will have to wait until next month. However, Atari's biggest seller of 2003, Enter the Matrix, survived an even worse shellacking in the enthusiast press to sell through 2.5 million units across four platforms in its first month of release.

 

[Wario64]

2.5 million eh. I guess they really want the game to drop to $10 quickly

 

[Deg]

Hooray. It got hype and it got what it deserved

 

[CrisKre]

We need to go on a crusade to prevent this game from selling. For the good of the industry.

 

[Deg]

We need to go on a crusade to prevent this game from selling. For the good of the industry.

No.

 

[Wario64]

Yes.

 

[DarienA]

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=2828

 

[cvxfreak]

I smell a bomb.

 

[Solid]

I smell a bomb.

I hope so. A game with a rank of 60% is not supposed to sell well.

 

[Deg]

Yes.

Please. You guys knew it was rubbish ages ago why act surprised now? I think Atari deserve huge success for this. May they continue to make games like ETM and Driver 3.

 

[Wario64]

I sense a joke character

 

[BeOnEdge]

we really need to make this game bomb. seriously. lets see just how strong our voice is. post on every single messege board you read just how bad this game blows.

 

[ge-man]

The game definately needs to bomb hard. I assume all of want good games, right? The chance for that lessens the more publishers get lucky with shitty product. At some point, they have to know that we are careful consumers and not sheep.

 

[DSN2K]

how can we help make this game bomb ?

 

[Redbeard]

we really need to make this game bomb. seriously. lets see just how strong our voice is. post on every single messege board you read just how bad this game blows.

The masses who will buy the game don't read message boards.

 

[Dagless M.D.]

Wow, I was pissed off when I heard this wasn't coming to the Gamecube. Back when the game looked like it was going to be good

 

[Nerevar]

Damn you infogrames for dragging the wonderful name of Atari through the mud like this!

 

[Deg]

how can we help make this game bomb ?

Its too late. It was guaranteed huge huge seller a long time ago.

Wow, I was pissed off when I heard this wasn't coming to the Gamecube. Back when the game looked like it was going to be good

Yes it was an amazing game

 

[COCKLES]

How are print magazines still going? Only ones I read are quick look through when I'm bored in WH SMITH. Haven't bought one for years except for the odd one that had a demo I wanted on cover. Internet killed the magazine star.

 

[fennec fox]

Actually, that's a question I was wondering with regards to UK mags. I mean, how does a magazine survive with a circulation of 20,000? Game mags in the US have gotten killed with running circs of 80K.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If this sells poorly, then great. It'll send a message to the publisher (and hopefully others) about releasing games in such a poor state.

 

[cabel]

Actually, that's a question I was wondering with regards to UK mags. I mean, how does a magazine survive with a circulation of 20,000? Game mags in the US have gotten killed with running circs of 80K.

I have a friend who's an editor at MacUser UK, and he explained it to me thusly:

1) Magazine distribution is significantly cheaper in the UK.

Since all of England can basically fit into Oregon geographically, and since there's an central rail system, basically they just drive a train through England and drop the magazines off at each location. I'm sure this is oversimplified, but the general idea is that magazine distribution is incredibly simple over there, compared to the complex, expansive distribution over here.

2) The advertising market is much more active.

This is obvious by glancing through Edge -- even the "employment" section in the back should be a sign of success. The average MacUser magazine has tons and tons of ads over there -- particularly from catalog firms, which have pretty much stopped advertising over here.

3) As a result, magazines make money from newsstand sales, NOT subscriptions.

Here in the USA, a magazine makes its money from subscribers -- subscribers are the key. (Which, we all know, from the blowcard explosion you can witness when cracking open a fresh mag.) Being able to mail the magazine and remove the many middlemen is where the profit comes from here in the USA. This is not the case at all in the UK -- over there, subscribers are the rare (and almost odd) luxury, while newsstand sales are actually profitable and the stable source of income.

And that's why the amazing magazines are my second favorite thing about the UK. (The first is the snack food.)

-Cabel

 

[DJ Demon J]

Someone just give me the quick and dirty, cause I can't see what all the fuss is about. Bribing for good reviews is nothing new, especially in the consumer electronics industry.

 

[WarPig]

And that's why the amazing magazines are my second favorite thing about the UK. (The first is the snack food.)

I gather that a lot of the same factors -- cheap distribution especially -- are behind the breadth of the mag market in Japan, as well as the relatively low newsstand cost of Japanese mags (you get a lot more raw content in Famitsu than you do in, say, EGM, and for less than five bucks).

Although the top Japanese magazines are also cheap because of their massive circulations and miniscule production costs.

Snack food's my favorite thing about Japan, too, come to think of it.

DFS.

 

[Ryck]

The game is horrible........it's getting good reviews........

 

[MrAngryFace]

im in the dark too. I came in today and the driv3r cup runneth over with hatorade.

 

[explodet]

It's just never been more obvious before, I believe - giving a 9 / 10 to a title with obvious problems.

After ficticious movie reviewers, a positive State of Emergency review from Gamespot, and many many other examples, it's not TOO surprising.
I am enjoying all the dust that getting kicked up, though.

 

[bishoptl]

That image is hilarious.

 

[Bigfoot]

To be honest this is nothing new as its been going on for decades, and its not just limited to Europe.

As mentioned in another thread, Edge had to buy their own copy of GTA 3 because rockstar wouldn't let them have review code unless it got a 9+ score. I also seem to remember a European Official PS2 magazine having the same problem with some game or other (may have been Vice City actually) and they told the story in the editors column in their magazine.

If I were to hazard a guess at a game review where I would have to say there was money involved it would be Timesplitters 2, especially since it got a unexplainable 9 in Edge. It was complete shit and I was even banned from the Edge forum for saying it was a repeat of their Turok 2 incident. Its the only of the very few times where I have hugely disagreed with a Edge score.

I agree with Cold Shadow... TS2 did indeed rock! What a horrible example. At least TS2 got good reviews from everywhere else, but I doubt the same will be true for Driver 3. Your opinion != fact.

 

[cja]

I have a friend who's an editor at MacUser UK, and he explained it to me thusly:

1) Magazine distribution is significantly cheaper in the UK.

Since all of England can basically fit into Oregon geographically, and since there's an central rail system, basically they just drive a train through England and drop the magazines off at each location. I'm sure this is oversimplified, but the general idea is that magazine distribution is incredibly simple over there, compared to the complex, expansive distribution over here.

2) The advertising market is much more active.

This is obvious by glancing through Edge -- even the "employment" section in the back should be a sign of success. The average MacUser magazine has tons and tons of ads over there -- particularly from catalog firms, which have pretty much stopped advertising over here.

3) As a result, magazines make money from newsstand sales, NOT subscriptions.

Here in the USA, a magazine makes its money from subscribers -- subscribers are the key. (Which, we all know, from the blowcard explosion you can witness when cracking open a fresh mag.) Being able to mail the magazine and remove the many middlemen is where the profit comes from here in the USA. This is not the case at all in the UK -- over there, subscribers are the rare (and almost odd) luxury, while newsstand sales are actually profitable and the stable source of income.

And that's why the amazing magazines are my second favorite thing about the UK. (The first is the snack food.)

-Cabel

Great explanation with no.3 but I'd like to pick up on the previous two points and query them.

1. It is a far smaller area to cover but then petrol/gas prices are five times more expensive than the US. I doubt any magazine publisher distributes via train. Even the publicly owned Royal Mail has almost given up on trains since distributing via road is cheaper, despite the fuel costs. Agree with it being easier to get into stores and there are less middlemen. Britain does have a newsagent culture and if you're in just WHSmiths you can sell to practically everyone.

2. Edge is an oddity because of the employment and higher education ads but this isn't the case for any other UK games magazine afaik. You don't get anything like the number of pages devoted to game adverts as you do in America. The way that EGM and CGW has the first eight, ten pages just as adverts would astonish British magazine buyers. There are a handful of advertising pages devoted to smaller indie retail stores, premium rate game cheat phone lines and the like but it still doesn't bump ads up to a comparable level with the US mags.

 

[Deg]

3) As a result, magazines make money from newsstand sales, NOT subscriptions.

Here in the USA, a magazine makes its money from subscribers -- subscribers are the key. (Which, we all know, from the blowcard explosion you can witness when cracking open a fresh mag.) Being able to mail the magazine and remove the many middlemen is where the profit comes from here in the USA. This is not the case at all in the UK -- over there, subscribers are the rare (and almost odd) luxury, while newsstand sales are actually profitable and the stable source of income.

And that's why the amazing magazines are my second favorite thing about the UK. (The first is the snack food.)

-Cabel

In the UK magazines make more money off advertising than their readership. Subscriptions are more profitable as places like WHsmiths take 50% of the cover price generally but by far most people buy from newsagents in the UK so places like WHSmiths are essential in order to get a large readership.

 

[Ferrarisimo]

Why did they rush this game out?

Is it coming to the PC? If so, maybe they can actually finish developing the game for at least one platform.

Rush it out? This game was delayed to hell and back.

At any rate, there's supposedly a PC version due out in September.

 

[mj1108]

Found on the Future Publishing forums: LOL