Amazing Adelaide 2?
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Amazing Adelaide 2?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Speaking of spin bowlers, good to see senanayake bowling well after he remodeled his action. Not that he was a world beater when he was still chucking, but it just goes to show that chucking shouldn't be made out to be the demon of the cricketing world.
It's good that he's remedialled his action to be legal and showed that chucking doesn't automatically equate to being good at bowling spin. You need far more than that to be a spin bowler. Though of course senanayake is still pretty much unproven outside of the one day stuff.
It's good that he's remedialled his action to be legal and showed that chucking doesn't automatically equate to being good at bowling spin. You need far more than that to be a spin bowler. Though of course senanayake is still pretty much unproven outside of the one day stuff.
See Clarke say during his press interview that the trio of current and recent injuries (back and both hamstrings) could well signal the end of his career? He freely admitted it. He's only around my age, and if he keeps breaking down the way he has been he'll be in a wheelchair and incapacitated by 40 with the rate and type of injuries he keeps succumbing to.
Fingers crossed for the worlds best physios to sort him out, but jeez, the rise of Smith may be sooner than we all anticipated (Haddin notwithstanding).
Fingers crossed for the worlds best physios to sort him out, but jeez, the rise of Smith may be sooner than we all anticipated (Haddin notwithstanding).
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
He kind of threw it out there as a worst case scenario thing.
Hoping for the best, but by now I don't think he should be part of the world cup squad and he should just be reserved for tests.
Hoping for the best, but by now I don't think he should be part of the world cup squad and he should just be reserved for tests.
chicko1983
Member
shit thing was I was overseas for Amazing Adelaide!
Adelaide tests are usually pretty good because the pitch is great for Test cricket - good for new ball bowlers, great for batsmen who get in, deteriorates to bring in the spinners on the final days. Also, it gets great crowds and has an awesome atmosphere out the back in the members (tents, bars and picnic areas on grass, not sure of the other venues that have these types of facilities).
There is usually a result or a very good draw where a team has held on. Generally all results are on the fifth day as well.
The last 10 tests at Adelaide Oval:
2004 - v NZ, Australia win by 213, finished 2nd session last day, 60k crowd
2005 - v WI, Australia win by 7 wkts, finished 2nd session last day, 69k crowd
2006 - v Eng, Australia win by 6 wkts, finished last session last day, 125k crowd
2008 - v India, Draw - This was the most boring match - both teams scored over 500 in the first innings and only India batted twice, ??? crowd
2008 - v NZ, Australia win by inns and 62 runs, finished last session day 4, ??? crowd
2009 - v WI, Match drawn - Windies set 330 target for Australia to chase in 76 overs on the final day, they were 5 for 220 at stumps, 60k crowd
2010 - v Eng, England win by inns and 71 runs, finished first session last day, 140k crowd
2012 - v India, Australia win by 293, finished first session last day, 95k crowd
2012 - v SA, Match drawn by amazing innings by Faf du Plessis for SA to hold on for draw with 2 wickets left, finished last day, ??? crowd
2013 - v Eng, Australia win by 218, finished first session last day, 155k crowd
2014 - v Ind, Australia win by 48 runs, finished last session last day, 113k crowd
Just listening to his interview on Foxsports, it doesnt sound great at all.
He says
- this was the most important test match I have ever played, I have no regrets playing it (after asked if he should have missed this game).
- I wont play the rest of the series, I may not play ever again - I have to be realistic about it.
Fox sports said that they asked him again about the comment never playing ever again as it initially sounded like a throw away line, but apparently he meant what he said and was resigned to maybe never playing again.
The way it sounds, I wouldnt be surprised if he does announce his retirement before the Sydney test. They would be able to give him a send off at the ground, even if he doesnt play.
I think he wants to get to England Ashes series - winning in England is the last thing he has to accomplish - but I think that may be too far away for him.
Given how much Hughe's death has affected him, I would not be surprised if he is happy to pull stumps now he may have changed his priorities in the last couple of weeks.
I think it was last summer or the one before, the commentators made some remark about Lyon being the fastest off spinner in Australia to reach (I think) 100 wickets. Assume he beat Tim May to this record (I loved Tim May). Off spin isn't as sexy an art as is leg spin when performed by a blonde Melbourne kid who bowls English legends around and through their legs.
Lyon is a quiet achiever and deceptively effective when you look at his stats.
I think any animosity towards him may have been the result of the other dozen spin bowlers who were selected and dropped and vanished in the few years after Warne retired. Then Lyon is kept in the team and no-one knows exactly why and then all of a sudden he has been picking up 2, 3, 4 wickets a game and quietly amassed a consistent record.
And then he goes ahead and wins a match.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I thought he's had quite a number of match winning performances already. The 5fer in the last ashes comes to mind as the most recent one. No way in hell is Australia capable of winning it if it hadn't been for Lyon.
It's true that England mostly imploded (hilariously I might add) in that spell, but someone still had to do it.
It's true that England mostly imploded (hilariously I might add) in that spell, but someone still had to do it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh definitely, though I'd say that is true for most bowlers getting a 12fer. 
Was hoping to see him pull a herath and get a 9fer for the innings. Had a real chance of doing it too.
Was hoping to see him pull a herath and get a 9fer for the innings. Had a real chance of doing it too.
chicko1983
Member
Lyon's problem, and what frustrated me, was not taking enough second innings wickets when he was bowling last. The weirdest part was that he would take two or three in the first innings and then get less in the second innings, which shouldn't be the case for a decent spinner.
Hopefully he gets a lot of confidence from yesterday and kicks on from here. He has the ability, hopefully he now has some belief.
Hopefully he gets a lot of confidence from yesterday and kicks on from here. He has the ability, hopefully he now has some belief.
If you look at that Australian team there's a crap load of question marks already without Clarke. On form Rogers, Watson and Haddin shouldn't be in the side, Marsh despite a good start is arguably batting one too high. Clarke's injury has probably bought them more time as they'll need to sort out the number 4 first, but given how few tests there are this year before Ashes, they need to get a move on in sorting out the batting line up. At the moment it's all Warner and Smith.
Yep, unless Rogers pours on the runs, starting this Wednesday until the end of summer, he is surely done.
Watson is precarious also, and I don't think has ever really been a great no.3, so with Shaun Marsh coming into the squad (and Ed Cowan scoring for fun in first class) he'll be on notice, too.
Haddin is in a fortunate position. Despite the paradigm shift brought about by Gilchrist and I guess Tillakaratne and now (even though he has shelved the gloves) Sangakarra, keepers are still picked for their keeping and not their runs. And Haddin is senior player, with captaincy responsibilities, which shield him somewhat.
Though having said that, I'm sure an entire summer of low scores will place pressure on Haddin.
But like you say, with all attention surely going to replacing Clarke in his two roles, all those aforementioned players will probably gets stays of execution, for the time being. And to be fair, it is a winning side at the moment (0-4 in India notwithstanding), and that counts for a lot.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Watson averages 40+ at 3 iirc.
Also to be fair most sides in the world right now seem to be in a shakey position once the old guard retires soonish. Pakistan is already unstable with Younis khan and misbah in the side; sri Lanka only has Angelo mathews when mahela (who is already retired in tests) and sangakkara goes. India and England have a side full of young batting talent but they are very much untested and raw, with a lot still to prove. I'd say the only sides with a stable batting lineup is south Africa and new Zealand weirdly enough.
Also to be fair most sides in the world right now seem to be in a shakey position once the old guard retires soonish. Pakistan is already unstable with Younis khan and misbah in the side; sri Lanka only has Angelo mathews when mahela (who is already retired in tests) and sangakkara goes. India and England have a side full of young batting talent but they are very much untested and raw, with a lot still to prove. I'd say the only sides with a stable batting lineup is south Africa and new Zealand weirdly enough.
Steve Smith is going to captain Australia for the rest of the series:
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/steve-smith-captain-australia-india-series-vice-captain/2014-12-15
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/steve-smith-captain-australia-india-series-vice-captain/2014-12-15
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Seriously though, Smith's rise through the Australian team is one of the most ludicrously quick ones that I've ever seen. Not that it isn't well deserved.
Ya I saw that early this morning, though the headline was a more silly and unnecessarily inflammatory "Haddin Snubbed" or similar. This is a good move and I hope it pays dividends.
Everyone has been saying he's future captain for ages now, just didn't expect it so fast!
Well deserved anyways. Sydney Morning Herald with the "Haddin snubbed" headline lol. This is a much better choice considering Haddin will be very short term with how old he is with Smith looking to be captain in the long term.
Yeah, that's the one. Not sure what SMH is on about...
On another topic, anyone want to own Mitch Johnson's old car? The car looks like Mitch and goes about as fast!
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-2975739
chicko1983
Member
yeah he is young, however the ascendency has taken four years and being dropped from ODI and Test teams and working his way back in to both. He has worked hard for it and it is deserving, in my opinion. Its not like George Bailey and ODI captancy IMO.
The good thing is that when you talk about the modern era, there have been some seriously good players picked as captain around the world who are as old or younger than Smith now:
Graeme Smith, Alistar Cook, and Steven Fleming were all given captaincy and went on to becoming arguably the best captain's of their nations. Angelo Matthews may one day be mentioned similarly.
Hopefully Smith does the same for Australia.
Smith is definitely young, but has the right temperament it appears for a captain. Great choice, although Haddin would have been too. I thought they would have stuck with Haddin until Clarke's future is clearer, but perhaps this is an indication that Clarke may really be seriously unlikely to play again.
i.e. if Clarke's injury wasn't quite that bad, Haddin makes sense as a stand-in captain given he is probably nearing retirement in 2-3 years. But if Clarke's injury is really looking bad, Smith makes great sense as a longer term prospect.
i.e. if Clarke's injury wasn't quite that bad, Haddin makes sense as a stand-in captain given he is probably nearing retirement in 2-3 years. But if Clarke's injury is really looking bad, Smith makes great sense as a longer term prospect.
chicko1983
Member
I agree re Clarke.
Think he is giving it two weeks to see how the hammy starts recovering (before Sydney test) to make a call on his career. If he retires, he will announce just before Sydney for a send off there.
CA would have been talking to him and made this decision based on the information they have.
Yep. Privately they would have a good idea based on the injury of how bad the usual prospects are. If its a hamstring tear there is plenty of evidence re: australian footballers as to typical recovery times and based on Clarke's injury history and age they would have a fair idea.
I hope he can recover from it, but the fact he has said what may be the case is pretty concerning.
I hope he can recover from it, but the fact he has said what may be the case is pretty concerning.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh I know about the whole thing about being dropped, I meant it more about how quickly he has risen after he really broke through. Being dropped makes it even more significant really. Such a massive turnaround.
chicko1983
Member
Clarke having surgery on his hamstring, this is a drastic measure, 99% of hamstring injuries I can recall have been healed by rest.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/current/story/810447.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/current/story/810447.html
bobnowhere
Member
So
Ins: Hazelwood, Starc and Smarsh
Outs: Harris (Quad Strain/age/condition?), Siddle (form), Clarke (Hammy)
Smith's captaincy will live or die on those around him. He'll need 2-4 players, probably batsman and a keeper to come in in the next year or so and establish themselves long term. Who they are is very unclear at the moment.
Batsman: Joe Burns? Ed Cowan? (already 32 though) Kurtis Patterson? Nick Maddinson? Callum Ferguson? Tom Cooper? (Is he even allowed?) Jordan Silk? (Meh) Alex Doolan? (double meh) Uzzie?, Chris Lynn?
Keepers: Wade? (Has he gotten any better?), Ryan Carters? (Concentrating on Batting now?), Sam Whiteman? (Looks quality)
Ins: Hazelwood, Starc and Smarsh
Outs: Harris (Quad Strain/age/condition?), Siddle (form), Clarke (Hammy)
Smith's captaincy will live or die on those around him. He'll need 2-4 players, probably batsman and a keeper to come in in the next year or so and establish themselves long term. Who they are is very unclear at the moment.
Batsman: Joe Burns? Ed Cowan? (already 32 though) Kurtis Patterson? Nick Maddinson? Callum Ferguson? Tom Cooper? (Is he even allowed?) Jordan Silk? (Meh) Alex Doolan? (double meh) Uzzie?, Chris Lynn?
Keepers: Wade? (Has he gotten any better?), Ryan Carters? (Concentrating on Batting now?), Sam Whiteman? (Looks quality)
chicko1983
Member
You know what is funny, if you take away the test matches from their first class averages (so they are compared at the same level), you have missed the next best test batsman (in my opinion) from all of those you have mentioned above:
Glenn Maxwell - first class average of a bit over 44 (over 27 matches).
Ed Cowan is next best with 43. Then joe burns and chris Lynn with about 42.5
I seriously reckon maxwell has the ability to play tests, just not at no.3 like he did in the UAE. He needs to pull his head in but his eye is so good that once he gets the balance right, he will be fine. Age wise he is a good choice over lots of the names above as well. Not too old or too young.
So going in two-three more years, I think we will line up like the following:
Warner, Shaun marsh, joe burns, smith, Mitch marsh, silk/Maddison/Patterson (the best current under 23), maxwell, wade (or best young keeper/batsman) maybe head if he steps up), three quicks from pattinson/hazel wood/starc/cummins/abbot/bird, Lyon.
The team above would have been prime with hughsey opening with Warner and move Shaun marsh to 5 or 6.
I feel Mitch marsh will one day bat as high as four, he was a batsman in junior cricket so i imagine he could eventually become a very good batsman who bowls, like Kallis was.
bobnowhere
Member
I conveniently forgot about Maxwell and pretended to forget about Finch. I agree Maxwell is easily talented enough but he needs to develop the temperament that Warner did. And Finch, well it might take an injury to Warner or desperation for a stroke making number 3, but he'll get a go at some point.
Alrighty, so in about 18 months to 2 years, I'll go with: (Heart over Head here)
1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. N.F.Idea
4. Smith
5. Lynn
6. M Marsh
7. Whiteman
8. Lyon
9. Cummins
10. Johnson
11. Pattinson
Number 3 could be anyone really, Burns/Maddinson/Patterson/Uzzie/Finch/Silk etc...
Fast bowling should be fine and as a bolter I'd look seriously at Joel Paris from WA, a better version of Starc.
Alrighty, so in about 18 months to 2 years, I'll go with: (Heart over Head here
)1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. N.F.Idea
4. Smith
5. Lynn
6. M Marsh
7. Whiteman
8. Lyon
9. Cummins
10. Johnson
11. Pattinson
Number 3 could be anyone really, Burns/Maddinson/Patterson/Uzzie/Finch/Silk etc...
Fast bowling should be fine and as a bolter I'd look seriously at Joel Paris from WA, a better version of Starc.
chicko1983
Member
I conveniently forgot about Maxwell and pretended to forget about Finch. I agree Maxwell is easily talented enough but he needs to develop the temperament that Warner did. And Finch, well it might take an injury to Warner or desperation for a stroke making number 3, but he'll get a go at some point.
Alrighty, so in about 18 months to 2 years, I'll go with: (Heart over Head here
1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. N.F.Idea
4. Smith
5. Lynn
6. M Marsh
7. Whiteman
8. Lyon
9. Cummins
10. Johnson
11. Pattinson
Number 3 could be anyone really, Burns/Maddinson/Patterson/Uzzie/Finch/Silk etc...
Fast bowling should be fine and as a bolter I'd look seriously at Joel Paris from WA, a better version of Starc.
So at least we agree that it's only the second opener, the number three, two Middle order batsman and the keeper that we need, haha.
I realised my team was actually 12 players so here is the xi (playing at home obviously)
Warner - Nuff said
Shmarsh (I think opener would actually be his best position given his solid defence and would complement warner well) or Cowan if shmarsh doesn't take this opportunity
Burns (best technique not in the current squad)
Smith (I don't ever think he will bat higher than 4, and 4 suits the stroke maker the best I think)
Mitch marsh (he will be a long term 4/5 after he gets to about 30 tests)
Maxwell - with him in this team it looks a little unbalanced however he is a very good player of spin, which our middle order needs, and Mitch marsh will bowl less and less as time goes on - 10 overs a day is the sweet spot Kallis found.
The Keeper - our biggest problem position in the next two years IMO, biggest question mark
Pattinson - he will be the leader of the bowling attack
Starc - gets in ahead of hazelwood and Abbott because he is lefty, haven't seen enough of Paris to consider him
Cummins - if he lives up to his potential he'll be a 350 wicket taker
Lyon - in two years time, he'll be the best finger spinner in the world
bobnowhere
Member
So be interesting to see how the pitch goes over 5 days. After the preparation was stopped due to the rescheduling the pitch could easily be under or over done.
So SMarsh ought to begin his innings on about -120, and - not to make light of the horrific incident in Sydney - there needs to be an urgent review into our performance, conditioning and physio team as to have this amount of players falling over with hamstring or calf muscle injuries is ridiculous, and frankly, embarrassing.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yeah it's super weird. It is super hot today but the amount of players breaking down recently (especially the young pacers) is pretty concerning.
renegade_dewitt
Member
Could easily be the symptoms associated with overplaying cricket. In this day and age, cricket is basically a year-round sport and players aren't able to rest as much as they would like, leading to niggling injuries or even serious ones (Clarke). ODIs and T20s have exacerbated this condition and when a player gets ready to play a test match, these niggling injuries become all the more obvious over the course of this longer version of the game...
Cricket needs to seriously consider creating a "season"-like schedule as seen in other sports like basketball, soccer, etc where they play for a certain period of time then go into off-season mode to rest, recuperate and start all over again in the next year. Just too much cricket in too short a time frame...
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Michael clarke was just pushing a lifelong chronic ailment so I don't think it's that, but yeah, I guess the schedule is to blame in a way. A three day rest between two tests seems insane to me, though we do have two new pacers (and starc was always shit in tests anyway).
I'm really no confident in our batting lineup here. I'm not a Shaun Marsh fan, and I'm not convinced Mitch Marsh can play for the long haul (although I'm happy for him to be our all rounder at 6 in the long term).
Warner and Smith are the only two I have any confidence in scoring a century, and we're going to need someone to score a big century to compete against what looks like being a 400+ first innings from India.
Warner and Smith are the only two I have any confidence in scoring a century, and we're going to need someone to score a big century to compete against what looks like being a 400+ first innings from India.
The problem is it's a global sport across both hemispheres. You make the season October-March, for example - you can't play in England because it's freezing cold. Make it March - September, you can't play in Australia because it's winter and all the grounds are being used by the AFL.
Cricket has always been a year long sport because of that reason. But you are right, the international schedule has become a lot more full. From the Australian perspective, historically you'd usually have a 5-6 test summer at home, and then either a tour in March and October, or the Ashes tour in our winter. Now, you have all that, plus random 7 match ODI series, the IPL, T20 World Cups, etc.
But I'm not actually convinced that players are playing more days of cricket. Back then they'd be playing full county seasons in the winter and playing Shield matches inbetween Tests.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
At least with starc there our tail is pretty long!
Would be nice if we can select a quick for taking wickets instead though....
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I hope Nathan never bowls around again. Just don't see why he was doing it when his career best was done over the wicket.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I honestly do love watching Johnson bat. He times the ball so sweetly when he's on song.
Edit: smiiiiiiiitteh.
Edit: smiiiiiiiitteh.
bobnowhere
Member
Remember the saying:
An
Vijay and Dharwan were probably giving them dirty looks at lunch.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
India seriously needs to learn how to take lower order wickets.
Steverulez
Member
Cook set to be sacked as ODI captain, its a disgrace.
Changing captain now is a fucking joke, they should have either done it ages ago or waited until after the World Cup, if our plans weren't already a mess and a shambles, they are now.
Complete lack of respect for Cook as well. I would have no problem with him going after the tournament if we were poor in it, but I don't agree with knee jerk decisions this late. He's obviously out of form, but he isn't the only one, its completely the wrong time to do it.
Changing captain now is a fucking joke, they should have either done it ages ago or waited until after the World Cup, if our plans weren't already a mess and a shambles, they are now.
Complete lack of respect for Cook as well. I would have no problem with him going after the tournament if we were poor in it, but I don't agree with knee jerk decisions this late. He's obviously out of form, but he isn't the only one, its completely the wrong time to do it.
Only the ECB could drop a player for a player in even worse form.
bobnowhere
Member
Johnson on fire this morning, but jeez he's pushing the front foot rule!