Edag Plata
Banned
Just finished AA3 and jumped right into Apollo. Already love the feel of it but I have a paper to write. :-(
Can't wait for more!!!!!
Can't wait for more!!!!!
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The Official Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (4) Thread
- Thread starter jvalioli
- Start date
EmCeeGramr
Member
The logic in this game is contrived. The evidence for proving
I want this game to be good.
non blindness should be a fucking lyric sheet that needs to be READED (sp!) not a crappy bloodsmear that just looks like the guy had bad blood penmanship.
EmCeeGramr
Member
jvalioli said:
n order for the whole 'conspiracy as outlined by the song' angle to work, youd have to be able to read I assume. Theres no way in hell I could have inferred from the crime photo that the killer would smear what was written. I noticed it earlier and was amazed no one realized he was writing something. It looks legible from what I can see in the photo, not to mention I figured it was hard to make out since it was a foreign language. Nothing deducive whatsover.
EmCeeGramr
Member
If this game could put a leash on the logic or even have multiple pathways for a trial depending on any valid evidence you could use in a situation it would be great. As it stands its a novel experience that insults my intelligence far too often.
EmCeeGramr
Member
jvalioli said:
Or maybe he has a twin brother who didnt put tobasco in his eye
DUN DUN DUN
Just recently completed the game myself... I don't exactly harbor the same feelings many here do regarding supposed flaws in the game. I will agree that some elements seemed contrived like
and what was mentioned before about how Case 4 was kind of littered with moments where it seemed to make you go out of your way to present a case when you easily had a piece of evidence that said it all; short and simple.
However, my favorite in the series being PW:T&T this game is definitely tied with PW:AA as second best for me. It took some time for some things that I could easily get into to finally grow on me (in many cases, the music and especially Prosecutor Gavin) as well as in the way the cases flowed. (I personally felt Case 3 felt about as random and yet somehow "right" as the final case in Trials and Tribulations did, which I liked). I'd also add that this game had some pretty epic breakdowns from the guilty parties when you came to the end of the case. :lol
the singer from Case 3 ending up being Thalassa
However, my favorite in the series being PW:T&T this game is definitely tied with PW:AA as second best for me. It took some time for some things that I could easily get into to finally grow on me (in many cases, the music and especially Prosecutor Gavin) as well as in the way the cases flowed. (I personally felt Case 3 felt about as random and yet somehow "right" as the final case in Trials and Tribulations did, which I liked). I'd also add that this game had some pretty epic breakdowns from the guilty parties when you came to the end of the case. :lol
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Avrum said:
I always thought Singer = Thalassa = Apollo/Trucy's mom was one of the most obvious things in AJ. The second the character appeared in the story I knew where Capcom was going with it
OMG LOLOL Phoenix Wright 1-3 spoiler video... very funny !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYzsRMaQpo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYzsRMaQpo&feature=related
ShockingAlberto
Member
ThatNetMapel said:
was
awesome
Death_Born
Banned
NetMapel said:
A more clear version: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YtYzsRMaQpo&fmt=18
Add &fmt=18 to the end of any YouTube video, and if it was uploaded originally at a size higher than the maximum the window allows, it will let you play it at the resolution of the window.
Anyway,
:lol
Add &fmt=18 to the end of any YouTube video, and if it was uploaded originally at a size higher than the maximum the window allows, it will let you play it at the resolution of the window.
Anyway,
Is that some kind of Nazi word?
Yes.
Yes.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
NetMapel said:
:lol
Okay, so I still feel like there's a bunch that the game left us in the dark about.
It's made me think.
It's made me think.
One thing I wondered: could atroquinine be the poison made from incorrectly processing the cocoons? Kristoph sure had a lot of the stuff, wherever it comes from. Daryan got a cocoon out of Borginia just by knowing a Gavin; I don't see why the mad genius Kristoph couldn't have been the one who caused that huge incident that led to the cocoon security crackdown.
Of course, why would he have gone to Borginia in the first place just to get a poison, even if it was a good one? Well, maybe he was already there. His whole family appears to be wealthy international globe-trotters, and he's quite familiar with Europe already, I'm sure. And they never say WHEN exactly the first cocoons got smuggled. It might not have been right before the Magnifi case.
So why would all this even matter? Well, I'm still not totally convinced that he did... well, EVERYTHING HE DID in AJ:AA simply because he "really wanted to win a big case" and "didn't want his record tarnished." He spent $100,000 and sent a hidden deadly poison to a little girl just to fake a page... so he'd impress some famous magicians? He's a vain psychopath, but he's not THAT far gone. That's just too crude of a motive for him. And it's too hard to believe that those huge, black, and unbreakable Psyche-Locks were just concealing something so... shallow. The Kurain magatama was defeated by some snooty German fop who didn't want to get caught as a cheater? Nuh-uh.
Speaking of crude things that don't fit him, they never explained the scar. For a rich pampered intellectual, a PULSING DEVIL FACE SCAR ON YOUR HAND is a pretty weird thing to have.
Which is why I'm wondering if he was already in Borginia for another reason. Maybe... MAYBE... it's connected to Maginifi covering up Thalassa's "death." How the hell did she end up halfway around the world? Magnifi wouldn't have just dumped her there if he knew his beloved daughter was still alive. He must have used someone else... like Kristoph. And I think it's connected to his scar and the black Psyche-Locks... maybe Kristoph has some kind of dark power of his own (like the "spell" he "cast" on Vera), and he knew that the "Gramarye power" could defeat it.
It still leaves questions about the mindboggling coincidence of Apollo ending up at Kristoph's law office. That's not a coincidence, I'm sure of it. Remember, when Phoenix met Zak at the club in the MASON system, when they're talking about Apollo, Zak almost seems... startled by something.
"A-attorney!?"
Was he really just surprised that a lost Gramarye was an intern for Kristoph Gavin? Or was there something else?
It almost feels like they're trying to replicate how AA3 worked back to AA1, but this time they're leaving the foundation for the sequel's plot twists ahead of time; in the first game, Capcom didn't know there would be a sequel, so they had to retroactively put the connections in AA3. I'm definitely sure that they're trying to do it again, but making it easier on themselves this time.
Of course, why would he have gone to Borginia in the first place just to get a poison, even if it was a good one? Well, maybe he was already there. His whole family appears to be wealthy international globe-trotters, and he's quite familiar with Europe already, I'm sure. And they never say WHEN exactly the first cocoons got smuggled. It might not have been right before the Magnifi case.
So why would all this even matter? Well, I'm still not totally convinced that he did... well, EVERYTHING HE DID in AJ:AA simply because he "really wanted to win a big case" and "didn't want his record tarnished." He spent $100,000 and sent a hidden deadly poison to a little girl just to fake a page... so he'd impress some famous magicians? He's a vain psychopath, but he's not THAT far gone. That's just too crude of a motive for him. And it's too hard to believe that those huge, black, and unbreakable Psyche-Locks were just concealing something so... shallow. The Kurain magatama was defeated by some snooty German fop who didn't want to get caught as a cheater? Nuh-uh.
Speaking of crude things that don't fit him, they never explained the scar. For a rich pampered intellectual, a PULSING DEVIL FACE SCAR ON YOUR HAND is a pretty weird thing to have.
Which is why I'm wondering if he was already in Borginia for another reason. Maybe... MAYBE... it's connected to Maginifi covering up Thalassa's "death." How the hell did she end up halfway around the world? Magnifi wouldn't have just dumped her there if he knew his beloved daughter was still alive. He must have used someone else... like Kristoph. And I think it's connected to his scar and the black Psyche-Locks... maybe Kristoph has some kind of dark power of his own (like the "spell" he "cast" on Vera), and he knew that the "Gramarye power" could defeat it.
It still leaves questions about the mindboggling coincidence of Apollo ending up at Kristoph's law office. That's not a coincidence, I'm sure of it. Remember, when Phoenix met Zak at the club in the MASON system, when they're talking about Apollo, Zak almost seems... startled by something.
"A-attorney!?"
Was he really just surprised that a lost Gramarye was an intern for Kristoph Gavin? Or was there something else?
It almost feels like they're trying to replicate how AA3 worked back to AA1, but this time they're leaving the foundation for the sequel's plot twists ahead of time; in the first game, Capcom didn't know there would be a sequel, so they had to retroactively put the connections in AA3. I'm definitely sure that they're trying to do it again, but making it easier on themselves this time.
Femmeworth
Banned
That was surprisingly great. :lolNetMapel said:
Finally bought this today. Loving it so far (finished the first case). Love the 3D effects and moving cutscenes a lot, and the overall tone of the traditional #1 case training deal was remarkably dramatic and well done. Hopefully this keeps up over the long haul because I am definitely intrigued with where they took Phoenix as a character and the mysteries that have been raised.
One question, though (and a simple yes or now will suffice): am I going to find out what Phoenix was doing sleeping around and having a child at 18 years old? He doesn't seem like the hit it and quit it type...
EDIT-
YES :lol
One question, though (and a simple yes or now will suffice): am I going to find out what Phoenix was doing sleeping around and having a child at 18 years old? He doesn't seem like the hit it and quit it type...
EDIT-
NetMapel said:
YES :lol
PataHikari
Banned
Crushed said:
You think?
Phthisis said:
Nope.
Trucy's adopted.
NetMapel said:
Good video, but that song always bugs me. They're more describing sadism; schadenfreude is more seeing the mighty be laid low. So the unbeatable defense attorney losing cases would be schadenfreude, but just seeing some random bloke in the rain would just be sadism.
jvalioli said:
Exactly. After all the guy is the freakin
official pianist of the girl singing this song, so it's like logic if he knows the lyrics by heart
Although I don't find this example to be valid, I do totally agree with your point, the main problem of this series is the lack of multiple path, or at least the lack of possibility to present multiple evidence to prove the same thing. It's frustrating, and sometimes getting overruled once just make you think "well, looks like I'm on a false lead" and you try to think things in another manner only to fail again and again, read a FAQ, and find that your first reasoning was good -_-
The best example imo is this one, in the second case, you're cross-examinating Wesley (I think it's his name, the
student), and I forgot what exactly you had to prove, but the logical thing to present were panties. And guess what, I have TWO pair of panties in my court record. Since the game isn't asking precisely for one, I decide half randomly to present Little Plum's panties. Though luck, I get the generic 'lolol i dun see nothing contradictory i gonna penalize you', because it was Trucy's panties I had to present.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Crushed said:
These seem like good points, in that it's weird we got two fatal poisons in a game where everything is connected and no one made mention of the similarities.
You're underestimating how BIG that case was. It was like the OJ case, but bigger. Phoenix already had a history of defending celebrities and you never really hear about anyone else doing it, so the fact that Gramareye came to Kristoph was a big deal. It was the shot in the arm he needed to make his law practice big. He wasn't a big lawyer at that point, he was still facing rookie prosecutors, while his brother the genius was on the fastlane.
To put it another way, think about the other older/younger siblings we've seen in the series. Mia was a genius, both as a spirit medium and a lawyer, Maya was competent as a spirit medium and occasionally helped out in the court room. Lana was the genius, Ema was kind of competent. In Apollo Justice, Apollo is the brilliant lawyer and even outclassed Trucy's perception ability, while Trucy was simply competent. The older sibling, by all rights, is supposed to be the better one - remember, for example, how infuriated Franziska that Phoenix took down her "older brother", not her father. Kristoph was swimming in mediocrity, so the Gramareye case was his big break...that Wright stole from him because he lost a poker game.
To put it another way, think about the other older/younger siblings we've seen in the series. Mia was a genius, both as a spirit medium and a lawyer, Maya was competent as a spirit medium and occasionally helped out in the court room. Lana was the genius, Ema was kind of competent. In Apollo Justice, Apollo is the brilliant lawyer and even outclassed Trucy's perception ability, while Trucy was simply competent. The older sibling, by all rights, is supposed to be the better one - remember, for example, how infuriated Franziska that Phoenix took down her "older brother", not her father. Kristoph was swimming in mediocrity, so the Gramareye case was his big break...that Wright stole from him because he lost a poker game.
This, I think, might be stretching things. Magnifi very much would have dumped his daughter if he knew she was alive. They're all assholes. Magnifi was far more concerned about his art and the troupe than he was his daughter. He staged a fake murder and dumped his daughter so he'd have control of Zak and Valant. Magnifi was probably the one who dumped Apollo off in the first place and Thalassa was probably not happy about that. Valant wanted to kill Magnifi and framed Zak for it. Assholes. Zak hit a woman on the head while trying to ruin his former lawyer's career. A-s-s-h-o-l-e-s.
No one's going to like this, but there is only one person who knew about everyone from the beginning: Nolan Brushel. If there's anyone that could have arranged it to work out like that, it's him. He knew Thalassa's secret, the Magnifi secret, was Zak's best friend, and pieced together everything about the Misham murder.
Yes. Definitely.
Also, this post is a lot more ugly looking than I would thought it would be.
ShockingAlberto said:
I think you've read those comics too much. Magnifi was never portrayed as not caring about his daughter, nor was it ever implied that he was a big enough asshole to have faked a murder just to control Zak and Valant. He held her "death" over their heads but I don't think he would have actually caused her to REALLY get shot. And Thalassa returned to the troupe after her first husband died... Apollo was already gone, and Magnifi was presumably still with Zak and Valant supervising the troupe.
ShockingAlberto said:
I actually agree that he's more important to the story than he appears on the surface, but you're missing something:
Brushel never figured out the details of exactly what happened to Thalassa, did he?
So, like, is this what happened:
It doesn't make any sense...
1. Suicide
2. Zak suspected
3. Kristoph takes it upon himself to investigate and get the page made first
4. The night before the trial he finally goes to Zak and Zak turns him down due to the poker game
2. Zak suspected
3. Kristoph takes it upon himself to investigate and get the page made first
4. The night before the trial he finally goes to Zak and Zak turns him down due to the poker game
It doesn't make any sense...
Every way you think about it something doesn't add up. There's time between when the page is begun to be made and when the poker game occured- which is odd in itself, it's the only case in the series where there's that much time between the 'crime' and the trial - and we know that Kristoph wasn't the registered defense attorney so he couldn't have actually been signed on with a registered notice and everything, so it had to be like that.. and if Kristoph WAS the defense attorney and just not registered, why didn't the poker game happen earlier? And if Kristoph wasn't ever the defense attorney, why didn't Zak get one on day one? Maybe he didn't even actually want one- he was just planning to escape before he met Phoenix?
ShockingAlberto said:
We don't know for sure if Kristoph was "swimming in mediocrity." If anything, we should be under the impression that his law firm was doing very well. It's clear that he's a genius and knows the right people. Also, he's well known for being "calm and cool" or whatever in court. Judges, prosecutors, and even other defense attorneys know of him.
Technically, he never faced a rookie prosecutor during the game. Winston Payne, surprisingly, has been a long time prosecutor and was once a well respected "Rookie killer" before Mia tarnished that title.
Technically, he never faced a rookie prosecutor during the game. Winston Payne, surprisingly, has been a long time prosecutor and was once a well respected "Rookie killer" before Mia tarnished that title.
Maybe I'm being too persuasive but I found what Crushed said to be very convincing.
Chris Michael
Banned
I have some questions on this game, I'd like to have answers with no spoilers.
Well... to put it bluntly, is this game any good? Is it basically just introducing a new cast with old characters like Phoenix Wright not really having a vital part in the story?
Also... again, avoiding spoilers, does this game imply at all that the old PW crew will return one day in new games? I'm not sure I like the new cast...
(I know there's Gyakuten Saiban Kenji, but I'm even sure where that fits in the timeline)
Well... to put it bluntly, is this game any good? Is it basically just introducing a new cast with old characters like Phoenix Wright not really having a vital part in the story?
Also... again, avoiding spoilers, does this game imply at all that the old PW crew will return one day in new games? I'm not sure I like the new cast...
(I know there's Gyakuten Saiban Kenji, but I'm even sure where that fits in the timeline)
QuantumSingularity
Member
Chris Michael said:
No...and yes.
Chris Michael said:Also... again, avoiding spoilers, does this game imply at all that the old PW crew will return one day in new games? I'm not sure I like the new cast...
No.
NintendosBooger
Member
I'm thinking about returning this game, as I've discovered that there are many important references to previous PW games in AJ...which is natural since it's the latest installment in the AA series, but I've seen a few reviews stating that I should really play the previous PW games before biting into this one.
Were they wrong?
Were they wrong?
NintendosBooger
Member
Firestorm said:
I guess that's a no? I purchased AJ on whim, really, and there are a few other DS games I want to check out first. I'll return this today for something else, maybe TWEWY or something.
It is possible to enjoy it before the first three, you'll miss some things but will still be able to understand the main story and character relationships. However, those games are always full of references, and AA:AJ is no different. If you can, playing them all in order it's definitely the best choice.NintendosBooger said:
Of course, I've played them chronologically so I guess I have a biased view on this. Maybe someone who played AA4 as their first can give you an opinion that fits better with your current situation.
Even if you don't return AJ, get TWEWY, it's an awesome action RPG.NintendosBooger said:
I finished this today. I finally got it last week, after my semester finally ended... Damn, I think it's my favorite in the series. I like how the entire thing was scripted so well, and it really leaves you wanting another one, not just for more of the graphic adventure goodness, but to find out what's going to happen to everyone. The PW games were engrossing, but they didn't weave the narrative together quite this well. The characters weren't as strong, particularly Apollo, but I'm sure he'll gain more character as he goes along.
Just getting into the game here after having it for a few months (ninja gaiden and Layton got in my way, curse you Layton and your clever puzzles!). Anyways case 1 was great, just goes to show you how smart Phoenix is.
So crazy accusing
Hopefully the rest of the game is just as good. Lol at the
What's the news on GS5? will there be one or are we just getting Gyakuten Kenji instead?
Kristoph set him up, put him in the middle of a murder scene only to have him call him and ask for his defense. Kristopher would then give him a shitty defense service and have him pinned on the crime, in truth Phoenix called him in the first place suspecting him so that he could bring his truth to light in court.
your own defense attorney
panties thing, and here I thought I was chasing down some kind of kinky thong or something.
What's the news on GS5? will there be one or are we just getting Gyakuten Kenji instead?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Extollere said:
I'm guessing that Gyakuten Kenji is being made to tide us over until 5 is made.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Extollere said:
It was announced a while ago. Probably will be at the Toyko game show this year
Chris Michael
Banned
The PW series is definitely a game series where you have to start chronologically from the first game.
But it's soooo worth it.
But it's soooo worth it.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
jvalioli said:
every Eurodude or dudette here should do it. I mean, they're posting in english, THE HELL ARE YOU WAITING FOR
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Je ne parle pas anglaisAnasui Kishibe said:
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
koam said:
Speculation ahoy
No, I rather have him pass the torch and make Apollo Justice the lead character, because AA4 in effect was all about Phoenix Wright. This led to no development for both him and Trucy, it also left a specter of the previous three games, while pissing off both groups of people, the ones who want to move on, and those that want to recycle the past. As I said earlier in this thread, there really are two ways they could pass on the torch to make Apollo Justice the lead.
1. Kill Phoenix Wright
-or-
2. Make him become a prosecutor and become the "Final Boss" in AA5
That in effect gives the transition the series needs so that they can finally give Trucy and Apollo development time that they sorely need.
1. Kill Phoenix Wright
-or-
2. Make him become a prosecutor and become the "Final Boss" in AA5
That in effect gives the transition the series needs so that they can finally give Trucy and Apollo development time that they sorely need.
Just finished the game last night... wow there is a lot of reading in this thread to do. Over all, yeah there were a couple of small plot issues, but the story worked out really well in the end, even if bits of 4-4 were too predictable. I'll post my responses later. Gavin wasn't a bad prosecutor up front, but I would have liked a more menacing opposition to battle. Oh and what's up with the Brushel hate? Brushel was awesome, I loved his animations, and his tapping on the head with this brush. I wish we could have seen some of the other characters after 7 years though...maybe they're leaving room for AA5.