grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Docpan said:
I would be pissed off if Japan/2ch convinced Capcom to ditch Apollo and Trucy
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The Official Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (4) Thread
- Thread starter jvalioli
- Start date
I would be pissed off if Japan/2ch convinced Capcom to ditch Apollo and Trucy
Beat it this weekend...I'm kind of surprised to find a bit of disappointment with it (I'm hoping a second playthrough will remedy it).
My problems have been echoed all ready. The cases feel too short/confined, and development seems to be sparser somehow. Granted, it's hard for me to compare AA4 with AA1 solo, because I started with JFA so the game is immutably a 'series' in my mind, but...
It just felt at odds with itself. It felt like including Phoenix was a compromise, because there's almost nothing that connects the Phoenix of this game with the Phoenix of old. At the same time, it feels like all the action going on (especially in case 4) is happening *around* the protagonist, and that you as a player aren't really effecting the cases as much as kind of watching them happen and maybe sometimes prodding them along.
This isn't supposed to be a knock against the characters. I think Apollo's great, he just isn't given enough to do. I liked how Klavier didn't have any crazy quest guiding his prosecution, he just wanted the truth. (Even though that was probably a little less interesting, it was relaxing.) It's also a bit disconcerting that for the most part Apollo has no connection to the cases that are happening around him...case 2 was really frustrating in that regard because him even finding a case felt almost arbitrary.
And then the villains just...I dunno, their motives weren't as sketched out for the most part, especially in case 3 where you just kinda guess at what his are and never really get any clear understanding of him as a character.
I'm not gonna say the series is in a state of peril or anything like that, but here's what I'd want from the next game:
-Give Apollo a bit more confidence and his own quest (like Phoenix trying to save his friend in AA1), with more involvement in his cases.
-Either lessen up on Phoenix and leave his backstory alone or further integrate Apollo into the world of the first 3 games.
-Make the cases longer, not artificially, but give the characters more development time.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that Case 1 is actually pretty awesome. This has now been remedied.
My problems have been echoed all ready. The cases feel too short/confined, and development seems to be sparser somehow. Granted, it's hard for me to compare AA4 with AA1 solo, because I started with JFA so the game is immutably a 'series' in my mind, but...
It just felt at odds with itself. It felt like including Phoenix was a compromise, because there's almost nothing that connects the Phoenix of this game with the Phoenix of old. At the same time, it feels like all the action going on (especially in case 4) is happening *around* the protagonist, and that you as a player aren't really effecting the cases as much as kind of watching them happen and maybe sometimes prodding them along.
This isn't supposed to be a knock against the characters. I think Apollo's great, he just isn't given enough to do. I liked how Klavier didn't have any crazy quest guiding his prosecution, he just wanted the truth. (Even though that was probably a little less interesting, it was relaxing.) It's also a bit disconcerting that for the most part Apollo has no connection to the cases that are happening around him...case 2 was really frustrating in that regard because him even finding a case felt almost arbitrary.
And then the villains just...I dunno, their motives weren't as sketched out for the most part, especially in case 3 where you just kinda guess at what his are and never really get any clear understanding of him as a character.
I'm not gonna say the series is in a state of peril or anything like that, but here's what I'd want from the next game:
-Give Apollo a bit more confidence and his own quest (like Phoenix trying to save his friend in AA1), with more involvement in his cases.
-Either lessen up on Phoenix and leave his backstory alone or further integrate Apollo into the world of the first 3 games.
-Make the cases longer, not artificially, but give the characters more development time.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that Case 1 is actually pretty awesome. This has now been remedied.
monkeylite
Member
Just finished the
of case
. Seems like it will be as epic as GS3.
first day's trial
4
Just finished the game.
I'm not sure how I feel, it was definitely good and what I expected out of an Ace Attorney game. I think maybe I wasn't ready to say goodbye to Phoenix yet which made it hard for me to like Apollo. He didn't really get much development throughout the cases at all.
While it was alright for Phoenix to be the mentor, I would've liked to see what happened to more of the old cast. The Feys? What about Phoenix's woman? Edgeworth? Fran?
Also, Gavier was okay but no where near Edgeworth or Godot for the main prosecutor. I liked Ema a lot in AA1 but I wasn't feeling her too much in this one. Hopefully she'll get a little more relaxed in the next game.
Trucy > Ema > Maya by the way, in terms of the supporting role.
While it was alright for Phoenix to be the mentor, I would've liked to see what happened to more of the old cast. The Feys? What about Phoenix's woman? Edgeworth? Fran?
Also, Gavier was okay but no where near Edgeworth or Godot for the main prosecutor. I liked Ema a lot in AA1 but I wasn't feeling her too much in this one. Hopefully she'll get a little more relaxed in the next game.
Trucy > Ema > Maya by the way, in terms of the supporting role.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
jvalioli said:
How do you feel about the game differently than everyone else?
Not really anything spoilish in here, but just to be careful.grandjedi6 said:
I loved Klavier Gavin. He is the best character in the game by far and I respect him as a Prosecutor since he seems more like he cares about who actually committed the crime than he does about beating you. Plus he has that awesome theme song! Love Love Guilty~ Actually, both the Gavins are pretty awesome, but I think a lot of people liked Kristoph.
Trucy and Apollo didn't really grow on me as the game went on. Sure I *liked* them, but they weren't that great. I definitely didn't think they were suitable replacements for Phoenix and Maya. I still like most of the old cast more than I like the new cast. I suppose they could grow on me as they are used more, but I don't think so, especially Ema. I couldn't really place why I disliked her so much though.
I didn't really like the way the perceive system was presented either. I felt like some of the witnesses were cracking a little too easily and there was no punishment for doing it wrong.
Trucy and Apollo didn't really grow on me as the game went on. Sure I *liked* them, but they weren't that great. I definitely didn't think they were suitable replacements for Phoenix and Maya. I still like most of the old cast more than I like the new cast. I suppose they could grow on me as they are used more, but I don't think so, especially Ema. I couldn't really place why I disliked her so much though.
I didn't really like the way the perceive system was presented either. I felt like some of the witnesses were cracking a little too easily and there was no punishment for doing it wrong.
Case 1 is indeed probably the best one in the game. Just the way it uses the
was just so awesome.
More of that would have been delicious with more twists in the later cases would have been epic.
Instead, the game kinda fell flat on the creativity for some reason.
video codec to describe the scene of the crime
More of that would have been delicious with more twists in the later cases would have been epic.
Instead, the game kinda fell flat on the creativity for some reason.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm kinda pissed, no store in my fucking town has this, even though we have a fucking Wal Mart.
We got PW3, but not AJAA?
We got PW3, but not AJAA?
jvalioli said:
I really liked Gavin the prosecutor as well. He's the first prosecutor I've really liked since Edgeworth. I understand where others are coming from when they say that he didn't feel villainous enough, but I grew tired of the over-the-top hyper-aggressive prosecutors from the past games. The only one that really worked was Von Karma the elder in the first game, since he worked as a "Final Boss" of sorts.
People say they don't feel good for beating Gavin, but I never really thought of things in terms of beating the prosecutors. It's the criminals you're really up against, not the prosecutors - and beating them is what gives me my satisfaction in the games.
This is also, incidentally, why I think von Karma worked so well in the first game, since he's both the prosecutor and the criminal. Godot, on the other hand, was too sympathetic a character by the time you convict him, and it wasn't satisfying at all to prove him guilty. That case was great for story reasons other than getting the bad guy.
Adumaha said:
I'm not liking it as much as the old games because the supporting characters are mostly horrible. I'm fine with Apollo, Trucy, and Klavier but the case specific characters have been a huge letdown. The guy you're defending in Case 2 made me want to shoot him because he was so annoying. Where are the Luke Atmey's, Ron DeLites, Jake Marshall's of the game? I'm only just starting case 3 so hopefully someone interesting pops up.
Nemesis556 said:
I thought the whole idea of defending a GANGSTA like himself was quite original and cool.:lol
And just finished case 3, easily the best third case in the series. And the best part it didn't use the
witness dressing him\herself as the defendant cliche that all the third cases in the previous 3 PW games used
Cant wait to play case 4.
Callibretto
Member
my least favorite character,
is unfortunately the most likely to return in the sequels just like
make a frequent return in past pw games
Brushnel
Lotta
Nemesis_
Member
So I'm onto the "real" Case 4 and I must say I am somewhat disappointed. Sure, we see a return of
Phoenix and a few characters, but what the hell is with using all the old GBA assets? The only thing that's been updated is
sprite and it looks so good unlike the rest of the environment.
looks terribly outdated too. I didn't realise how much of an improvement Apollo Justice was over the originals in terms of visuals and sound.
Oh, and by the way,
Trucy fuckin owns and I like that they at least gave Klavier a new
Playable
Klavier's
Phoenix
Oh, and by the way,
mini
look for this case
Just finished the whole game. While overall it was good, it felt like there was something "missing". Case 4 should've been really epic, but it didn't feel that way for me. I don't know why, maybe it's because
Also disappointed
I really liked Apollo and the rest of the gang though. Trucy & Klavier are my favorites. 
He never feels like a prosecutor (which is good and bad, I guess). My favorite criminal is
My least fav is
.
there was no real "danger" element happening to the main characters or whatever. Kristoph is a kinda lousy bad guy.
Also disappointed
there wasn't even a small mention of the old characters... not even one visit from any of them in 7 years?!? Wtf. :T Maybe they'll put something in the next game.
He never feels like a prosecutor (which is good and bad, I guess). My favorite criminal is
Daryan and his crazy hair! I liked his animations.
the reporter.
Mockingbird
Member
Ok, I just finished the game. It was good but not as good as I expected it to be overall.
My biggest complaint would have to be the lack of creative use of the DS functions. Compared to Case 1-5, the use of DS functions in the entire game is considerably lacking. I expected it to be at least 4 cases that would echo case 1-5's DS uses, but that was not the case at all! The one video we do get to analyze here was no where near as cool as the one in case 1-5's and was it really necessary to view that same video so many times - it must have been more than 5! There was hardly any need to actually deeply examine objects in 3-d, unlike in case 1-5, too! The best new analysis aspect that this game introduced was the crime scene recreation, which was sadly only used in two cases, and though it was first presented in 3-d, it then goes into nothing more than an overhead 2-d view!! Overall, I was extremely dissapointed with this aspect of the game. Sometimes I even forgot that Apollo Justice was made to take advantage of the DS functions!!! Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney was no case 1-5 x 4, rather it was 1/2 x case 1-5. Boo Capcom! Boo!
I also agree that the Final case lacked the final epic battling that all the other games had, but I did like how the game's case had a connection to one another via characters like in Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations. This game also has probably the best first case of all the games too -- the one case I think the developers did extremely well on. As for the characters, I actually liked them all, but I was hoping to find out what the others were up to as well. Ema, though, I thought, could've been used better - and I would've liked to see her reunion with Phoenix.
Overall, I enjoyed this more than Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All, but not as much as the other two. The first game is still my favorite of all (and is probably also the longest of all the games).
My biggest complaint would have to be the lack of creative use of the DS functions. Compared to Case 1-5, the use of DS functions in the entire game is considerably lacking. I expected it to be at least 4 cases that would echo case 1-5's DS uses, but that was not the case at all! The one video we do get to analyze here was no where near as cool as the one in case 1-5's and was it really necessary to view that same video so many times - it must have been more than 5! There was hardly any need to actually deeply examine objects in 3-d, unlike in case 1-5, too! The best new analysis aspect that this game introduced was the crime scene recreation, which was sadly only used in two cases, and though it was first presented in 3-d, it then goes into nothing more than an overhead 2-d view!! Overall, I was extremely dissapointed with this aspect of the game. Sometimes I even forgot that Apollo Justice was made to take advantage of the DS functions!!! Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney was no case 1-5 x 4, rather it was 1/2 x case 1-5. Boo Capcom! Boo!
I also agree that the Final case lacked the final epic battling that all the other games had, but I did like how the game's case had a connection to one another via characters like in Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations. This game also has probably the best first case of all the games too -- the one case I think the developers did extremely well on. As for the characters, I actually liked them all, but I was hoping to find out what the others were up to as well. Ema, though, I thought, could've been used better - and I would've liked to see her reunion with Phoenix.
Overall, I enjoyed this more than Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Justice for All, but not as much as the other two. The first game is still my favorite of all (and is probably also the longest of all the games).
dr3upmushroom
Banned
HIGHLY doubt that, since AA5 is the best selling game in the series so far. ( IIRC it was close to 550k-600k at the end of '07)grandjedi6 said:
Remiunds me of the kid in case 2 of the first game.
Also, half way done with the second case. This game is awesome so far, best 1st case ever. Also is anyone else getting a MGS2 vibe? Where you play as a different character, but in some ways it feel similar and you get to interact with the person you are model after.
Some Case 3 spoilers:
Really good start. The entire rock show setting, mysterious performers, a band formed by people from the legal force... It's nice how the Ace Attorney games mesh these far out concepts so mastefully, and this game keeps doing that. I mean, not in a moment I get myself thinking "ok, this went beyond the edge", I'm always intrigued or laughing while playing. The animation with Lamiroir singing was very nice too.
Loved to see Klavier on his other habitat, it was nice to see him getting upset with what was happening. Since I had some issues with temperament when I was younger and had to work on them, I always appreciate when calm and carefree characters are fleshed out like that.
I still don't know what to think of Ema's occasional grumpiness. I liked her on AA1 and understand she would rather be on forensics, but those moments of her makes me miss Gumshoe's warmer antics. The snack eating is cute, but I like it much more when she's excited about what's around her than when she's pissed and not wanting to do her job. I'm glad she loosened a bit after Phoenix was mentioned on Case 2, but even by disliking having to deal with Klavier's show I hoped she wouldn't be so angry on 3.
Oh well, let's see how she develops from here on, the way she still gets enthusiastic when science is involved gives me hope for a happier Ema.
Loved to see Klavier on his other habitat, it was nice to see him getting upset with what was happening. Since I had some issues with temperament when I was younger and had to work on them, I always appreciate when calm and carefree characters are fleshed out like that.
I still don't know what to think of Ema's occasional grumpiness. I liked her on AA1 and understand she would rather be on forensics, but those moments of her makes me miss Gumshoe's warmer antics. The snack eating is cute, but I like it much more when she's excited about what's around her than when she's pissed and not wanting to do her job. I'm glad she loosened a bit after Phoenix was mentioned on Case 2, but even by disliking having to deal with Klavier's show I hoped she wouldn't be so angry on 3.
Oh well, let's see how she develops from here on, the way she still gets enthusiastic when science is involved gives me hope for a happier Ema.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You made a typo there, let me fix it.Hcoregamer00 said:
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Just got the game from Play-Asia yesterday evening, but because of an unforseen turn of events, I won't be able to play until later tonight ;_;
Just finished Case 2.
Got a few questions that are either unsolved or I didn't understand:
1.
2.
Also, the way the Perceive system is presented is kind of stupid. I mean, where does he pull this "recalling subconscious memories" bullshit from just cause they like twitched their nose.
Got a few questions that are either unsolved or I didn't understand:
1.
So, did both Wocky and Alitia have guns? I thought only 1 existes :S
Why did Wocky keep admitting to shooting the guy, and what happened after Alitia shot Pal Meraktis? Didn't Wocky see/do anything?
Also, the way the Perceive system is presented is kind of stupid. I mean, where does he pull this "recalling subconscious memories" bullshit from just cause they like twitched their nose.
monkeylite
Member
Just finished the game. Loved it. The minimal requirement of touchscreen usage gets a huge favour in my book.
Case 4 is pretty epic, though not as epic as the GS1-5, GS2-4 and GS3-5.
Phoenix might
I do hope we will see more of Klavier, as I enjoyed him. But I would love to play against von Karma again.
Case 4 is pretty epic, though not as epic as the GS1-5, GS2-4 and GS3-5.
Sad to find that there wasn't a new bad guy to expose to, we had to make do with someone already in prison. I was expecting Kristoph to be revealed as Thalassa because of the similarity between her hair style and his! But sadly the twist never came.
Phoenix might
return in GS5/AA5 since he mentioned that he may retake the bar exam.
Nemesis_
Member
I personally was happy with the main villain. He, for some reason, REALLY scared me. Not as much as the original Manfred von Karma, but he still did give me a few frights! Luckily though, I was happy when I beat him. It was great. The "breakdown" was perfect too. A real sense of satisfaction.
I've decided Klavier is one of my favourite prosecutors, simply because he's not an asshole =P
Overall, I'd give this game a 9/10, simply because I found it much more enjoyable than the previous games. But then again, I know I'm in the minority.
As for the twists? Apollo and Trucy
and Lamiroir
was a somewhat awesome spoiler.
I'm interested to see if the makers will do something wth the Jurist system, or just leave it.
Overall, very pleased with all the new characters.
was bad ass in a non physical way.
I've decided Klavier is one of my favourite prosecutors, simply because he's not an asshole =P
Overall, I'd give this game a 9/10, simply because I found it much more enjoyable than the previous games. But then again, I know I'm in the minority.
As for the twists? Apollo and Trucy
being siblings
being their mother
I'm interested to see if the makers will do something wth the Jurist system, or just leave it.
Overall, very pleased with all the new characters.
Kristoph
I started playing yesterday and one thing really bothers me so far. Apollo and Trucy behave and sound almost exactly like Phoenix and Maya. Why create two new main characters at all if they are pretty much identical to the original ones? Maybe it'll make sense later on when I know Trucy's backstory, I don't know...
Apart from that, I like it but I don't love it yet. Feels a bit too much like JFA somehow.
Apart from that, I like it but I don't love it yet. Feels a bit too much like JFA somehow.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I never got that impression at all. I did see a few reused lines that carried over from the previous games, such as when you present the wrong evidence during a trial, but there was enough distinction for me overall.Sloane said:
Yeah, I know, but that's not what I meant.XiaNaphryz said:
It's especially their relationship. Trucy is kinda crazy, a bit childish but funny, just like Maya. Apollo is like her bigger brother, sometimes insecure but mostly witty and clever. And after one day it feels as if they'd know each other forever. Dunno. Maybe that'll change later in the game.
Mac the KNife
Member
Finished the other day. I'm with the crowd that liked it a lot but felt something was off. Case 4 was definitely the oddball of the group, but I still enjoyed it. Brief character impressions:
Kavier:
Apollo:
Trucy:
Phoenix:
Ema:
Kristoph:
Winston
:lol
The Judge
Can't wait for the next one.
Kavier:
He was a great character, and an okay prosecutor. He wasn't as cunning as Edgey and Godot or as vile as the von Karmas which made it less satisfying to bury his ass at the end of the case. In the prior games, to me, nothing was more satisfying than FINALLY destroying the prosecution's case after hours of courtroom shenanigans. For AA5, lets get someone truly terrible on the prosecutor's side.
Apollo:
I liked him, but not nearly as much as I liked Phoenix back in the day. Now that the torch is more or less passed, the writers need to flesh out his story more in the next game to really complete him as a character apart from Phoenix
Trucy:
Strange and adorable. 'Nuff said. But because she's so young and also Apollo's half-sister, there's a complete lack the sexual tension that make the Nick / Maya relationship so hilariously endearing. But the big brother/little sister thing is different and interesting. I can appreciate that.
Phoenix:
Damn, what a great character. He's smartened up with age, but as we see in Case 4, he's still the same ol' Phoenix on the inside. He puts on a good show for Apollo and the gang, but he's still getting by largely on sheer luck n' bluff. They need to keep this legendary defense attorney around, at least as an ancillary character.
Ema:
I was so happy to see her return, but the results were mixed. She's certainly a different type of detective than good ol' Gumshoe and it makes sense for her to be a grouchy sourpuss, but I was hoping she'd play a bigger role in the proceedings to really let her shine. I think she would make a good potential love interest for Apollo, as Trucy would almost definitely point out.
Kristoph:
Great villain, but I want more of him. He needs to escape prison or cut a deal and become a prosecutor or something. Kristoph vs Phoenix in court would be EPIC
Winston
I love that this guy STILL can't catch a break. He was almost completely ignored by everyone by the end of Case 1
The Judge
Didn't seem as wacky this time. He was almost the straight man to the absurdity half the time. Kind of a bummer.
I hope the next game manages to split the time between Phoenix and Apollo better and also explains the fates of Phoenix's friends.
Can't wait for the next one.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Sloane said:
You expected them to throw out the dynamic entirely? It was pretty clear that Apollo was Phoenix 2.0 and Trucy was Sidekick XP. I'm actually impressed that they made both characters better than their predecessors and gave them different personalities, even if the relationship dynamic was the same
monkeylite
Member
Finish the game and you will understand.Sloane said:
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Mac the Knife's spoiler on Trucy above pretty much nails the key difference between the two pairings, particularly what's "missing" from the Apollo/Trucy relationship compared to the Phoenix/Maya one.Sloane said:
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I just started the first case. It's already awesome!
When Olga Orly revealed who she really was and put on that 30s mobster's concubine accent, I chuckled. And is Trucy Phoenix's daughter? I've only seen the tiny pixelated version of the picture in his locket. How does that work? Even if she's sixteen, as I suspect, that would mean that Phoenix was in his teens when she was born. It means that the immature way Phoenix acted around Dahlia/Iris (his "first love") no longer makes any sense. :|
1.Neo Child said:
This has me confused too. We know that Alitia stole Wocky's gun after hearing about his intent to murder. Since Wocky's mother said that only 3 guns exist in the family (one for her, the father and Wocky) we must assume that Wocky then stole one of his parents' guns. However, Little Plum mentioned that "[only] one is missing" so I don't understand how it's possible that both Alitia and Wocky had guns. What's even more confusing is that the ballistic marking on the bullets were both from Wocky's gun (since Alitia stole it and fired both shots), however the gun found at the crime scene couldn't have been his gun, since Alitia had it. The only possible explanation is that after fleeing the scene and dropping his gun, and the Ivey student went to call the police, Alitia switched the two guns. She must have then returned the second gun to the Kitaki household? They really failed to explain it, unless we're both missing something here.
2.
Wocky wasn't sure if he shot Pal Meraktis or not. When you speak to him in the Detention Centre he says something like "probably" or "I think", he can't say for sure he was the one that shot him. However, since he didn't see anybody else at the crime scene, and had the intent to kill, he assumed he must have been the one that did it.
As for what Wocky did after the shot, he panicked and dropped his weapons on the floor and escaped from the scene.
As for what Wocky did after the shot, he panicked and dropped his weapons on the floor and escaped from the scene.
I only just finished case 2 so I am only speculating here:viciouskillersquirrel said:
I'm certain that Phoenix isn't her biological father. As you said it just doesn't make sense given his age, and in case 2 Apollo mentions his doubt about their father / daughter status. I think Phoenix took her under his wing when she was a baby, for whatever reason.
And I see an uncanny resemblance between her and Ema Skye. Maybe that will play a part in it seeing as Ema and Phoenix have a long history?
And I see an uncanny resemblance between her and Ema Skye. Maybe that will play a part in it seeing as Ema and Phoenix have a long history?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
They hinted to them a few times if you examined certain areas. Pretty sure Eldoon mentioned something as well.McBacon said:This has probably been said, but I want to vent as well. Spoilers should be read by those who have completed only
No Maya, No Pearl - I couldn't find a single MENTION. I even screwed up a Psyche-Lock on purpose just to hear Pearl, but she wasn't there.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The character voices in this game suck. Though I guess that should have been expected since only Phoenix's has ever been truely good. But it's hard to be worse than Gavin's Objection or Apollo's Gotcha
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
grandjedi6 said:
Wat.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Just hit the middle (I think) of Case 4.
omfg
omfg