ClanOfNone
Member
Once the breach occurred the implosion was instantaneous. They may have been panicking, but they didn't feel anything when it actually happened.
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Titan submarine for Titanic tourism - Nightmare fuel
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
Once the breach occurred the implosion was instantaneous. They may have been panicking, but they didn't feel anything when it actually happened.
I can at least understand why the Titanic expert did it. I mean he was 77. He probably figured big deal if I die, I'm at the end of my life anyway, who knows how much longer I'll live but I might not get another chance to see the ship.
BlackTron
Member
It's insane these are real people, with real jobs, and this guy used to work at Warner Bros. even.
Lead content designer? Holy shit
Facism
Member
They would have lost Bluetooth connection to the madcatz controller
Tams
Member
Same. Only barely a kid, but he was only trying to please his retarded father.
But sure who is worse. The CEO, or the father dragging his kid into that death trap.
Winter John
Member
Being trapped in a submarine with two Pakistani guys is probably my greatest phobia.
Cyberpunkd
Member
And when the first try went well, and second, and third it was a further validation all was well.
Watch the Cameron interviews, he is very knowledgable and explains in simple terms why the sub design was stupid AF and a complete misunderstanding of the carbon fiber - it works great with pressure being exerted from the inside, whereas under the sea the pressure is coming from the outside. Cameron also mentioned that carbon fiber is by definition a composite, and as such you cannot run accurate simulations on it. On steel or titanium you can, anything that is a uniform material.
People in the know knew already on Sunday / Monday morning that this was over, the company and sub design was known and criticized by the community of experts before.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Cameron spent a few years co-designing and building the sub to take him down. This is nowhere near easy, the guy is just super dedicated. Also the Challenger Deep was already conquered in 1960:
Trieste (bathyscaphe) - Wikipedia
This is how you build things. When you apply start-up thinking to human lives people die (see Theranos).
I keep posting this since a lot of people really believe billionaires either have a bank account with this much in it or a money bin they swim around in like Scrooge MacDuck. It's not a salary, it's wealth. It's not real money. Bezos is worth that much because he owns Amazon. When they say he "made X millions" on some day it just means Amazon stock is trading higher today and on paper he's worth that much more. (Yeah he's still wealthy but it's not like he's stealing money from poor people. It's dicks on wall street trading money around between themselves.) The number for Bezos for example is how much he'd have if he could sell all his Amazon stock all at once without reducing the price per share.
Cyberpunkd
Member
But I heard regulation is bad and punishes the companies trying to innovate and go fast!
ManaByte
Gold Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I agree.
When stocks go up, everyone owning it just got richer. It's just that anyone with lots of shares got more rich.
I'd argue that billionaires like Bezos that are rich on paper arent even the ones fucking up the economy too when things go too exuberant or down the toilet. They are one person and what they cash out and buy during the good times wont move the needle. After they buy their mansion, ferrari and hire 3 housekeepers, there's only so much more they can do pumping up the neighbourhood prices. But the collective whole of people making money when the stock doubles has a lot avg joes going on buying sprees. Also, when things go sour I dont think Bezos, Buffet and gang go dumping their shares driving the stock down making everyone poorer. Its avg joe again panicky or investment companies buying or dumping shares at the opening bell all day.
Every avg person has done this. I remember back during the dot com craze when everyone was making money, I made a tiny bit of money too. Not a lot. There's only so much profit you can make putting in a couple grand. But at the time it was awesome. But my siblings who are all older and had jobs already made way more. We'd be all taking out the fam for dinner every month splitting bill as it seemed like nothing can go down. Then the bottom falls out, most of us lost all our profits back (me included) and suddenly everyone is scared shitless. No more restaurants for a while.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
I was just going to say "WTF, Don Lemon is still making CNN viewers more stupid each day?" but I checked that he was fired in April.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Sure, I understand that, I actually wrote a longer version of that post that mentioned this but I thought it was getting too unwieldy. It's a really complicated topic that you're right, a lot of people don't seem to understand because most people have little to no contact with this sort of thing.
However, it's far from the truth that Bezos doesn't have opportunity to convert some of that stock into cold hard cash. This article describes how much Bezos has taken out of Amazon as a result of selling stock.
Here’s How Much Money Jeff Bezos Has Reaped From Selling Amazon Stock
Over more than two decades, Bezos has been a huge seller of Amazon stock. As a result, his stake in the e-commerce giant has dropped to 10% from 42% back in 1997, and he’s got enough cash to buy just about anything in the world he wants.
www.forbes.com
In 2020 he sold the most he's ever sold when Amazon's pandemic influenced value shot up, and personally took out $10Bn (before tax). In my post where I said it'd take you 500 years to make a billion on $5k a day, makes this 5000 years of $5k per day earnings. So while I think it is slightly more complicated to look at someone's assets and judge the value on any given day, when you need to liquidate and so on, it's not like Bezos isn't, frankly, insanely rich and couldn't do enormous good for the world, for the environment, for his fellow man, for Amazon employees, for just about anything he wanted, and doing that wouldn't affect him at all. But, he obviously doesn't want to.
kuncol02
Banned
As I said. There is no deep-sea race because it ended in 1960.Cameron spent a few years co-designing and building the sub to take him down. This is nowhere near easy, the guy is just super dedicated. Also the Challenger Deep was already conquered in 1960:
Trieste (bathyscaphe) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This is how you build things. When you apply start-up thinking to human lives people die (see Theranos).
Now you literally can order submersible that will take you to very bottom and back from company that builds them. Only things you need is money and reason to buy it.
Titan was also over-designed, by factor of 2.5. Problem with composites is their quick degradation and potential manufacturing defects that we really cannot detect with current technology. That was main concern of everyone, that it will be fine for few trips until it will not. And exactly that happened.
Its not even first composite deep-see submersible. DeepFlight Challanger was another one. After tests it was determined that its suitable only for one dive.
That's fair. I mostly bring it up because a lot of people seem to think the economy is a zero sum game (it's not) and that since he made that much (only on paper) that he must have taken the money from someone else. (At which point it's implied he stole it from the poor people of the world.) It's true, he could use his wealth to do enormous good, but usually the super rich do that when they retire or at the end of their life.(Like Carnegie, Nobel, and Gates.) Who knows maybe he'll found a research institute and college.Sure, I understand that, I actually wrote a longer version of that post that mentioned this but I thought it was getting too unwieldy. It's a really complicated topic that you're right, a lot of people don't seem to understand because most people have little to no contact with this sort of thing.
However, it's far from the truth that Bezos doesn't have opportunity to convert some of that stock into cold hard cash. This article describes how much Bezos has taken out of Amazon as a result of selling stock.
Here’s How Much Money Jeff Bezos Has Reaped From Selling Amazon Stock
Over more than two decades, Bezos has been a huge seller of Amazon stock. As a result, his stake in the e-commerce giant has dropped to 10% from 42% back in 1997, and he’s got enough cash to buy just about anything in the world he wants.
In 2020 he sold the most he's ever sold when Amazon's pandemic influenced value shot up, and personally took out $10Bn (before tax). In my post where I said it'd take you 500 years to make a billion on $5k a day, makes this 5000 years of $5k per day earnings. So while I think it is slightly more complicated to look at someone's assets and judge the value on any given day, when you need to liquidate and so on, it's not like Bezos isn't, frankly, insanely rich and couldn't do enormous good for the world, for the environment, for his fellow man, for Amazon employees, for just about anything he wanted, and doing that wouldn't affect him at all. But, he obviously doesn't want to.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
To me it doesn't matter if someone is a millionaire or a billionaire. It's their money. I've said it many times on gaf, but dont worry what other people have. It'll just make people miserable thinking about what other people have and trying to figure what they should do with it.Sure, I understand that, I actually wrote a longer version of that post that mentioned this but I thought it was getting too unwieldy. It's a really complicated topic that you're right, a lot of people don't seem to understand because most people have little to no contact with this sort of thing.
However, it's far from the truth that Bezos doesn't have opportunity to convert some of that stock into cold hard cash. This article describes how much Bezos has taken out of Amazon as a result of selling stock.
Here’s How Much Money Jeff Bezos Has Reaped From Selling Amazon Stock
Over more than two decades, Bezos has been a huge seller of Amazon stock. As a result, his stake in the e-commerce giant has dropped to 10% from 42% back in 1997, and he’s got enough cash to buy just about anything in the world he wants.
In 2020 he sold the most he's ever sold when Amazon's pandemic influenced value shot up, and personally took out $10Bn (before tax). In my post where I said it'd take you 500 years to make a billion on $5k a day, makes this 5000 years of $5k per day earnings. So while I think it is slightly more complicated to look at someone's assets and judge the value on any given day, when you need to liquidate and so on, it's not like Bezos isn't, frankly, insanely rich and couldn't do enormous good for the world, for the environment, for his fellow man, for Amazon employees, for just about anything he wanted, and doing that wouldn't affect him at all. But, he obviously doesn't want to.
I'm no rich dude, but I can tell by my lifestyle, earnings and assets I will never be broke. I plan of dying with a mound of money and will split it with my nephews and nieces. As a back up plan, I can always go to my siblings and parents for cash as every one of them even has more than I do. And going by how they are they will never be broke either.
So given that, just because people have a good gap in leftover money, I dont want anyone telling me what to do with it. If I want to sink $100,000 cash into a investment property down payment, that's my money. I can just donate it of course. But if I want to turn that $100,000 into $300,000 and give it to family when I drop dead, that's my choice.
As for if and when guys like Bezos get rid of their money who know. Maybe he'll donate it all when he dies. Maybe he'll sink it all into a 4% interest bearing account for 50 years and then give it to family.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
It's quite interesting with Gates though, obviously he has a foundation he created with his wife and has done some good things, lots has been made of his philanthropic acts. Still one of the top 5 richest people in the world. What's taking so long?
As an expression as a percentage of my personal wealth, I wonder if I give more to charity that these billionaires do. Nobody ever celebrates my donations, they're more modest, of course, but as a percentage of what I earn in a given year or day, I wonder if they're more significant? I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Perhaps your charity donation % is bigger. Maybe it is, maybe it's not.
But as I said above, you'll probably feel better if stop worrying about what other people should do with their money and comparing against them.
For example, I never donate to charity except for the handful of times I donated $100 to someone's cancer walk and the Fort McMurray town fire years ago. Then maybe $200-300 in those hospital lotteries you can win a TV or house. Maybe in total I've donated $500 in my life.
So what?
If you've donated more than me in your life, are you saying you're a better person than me?
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Words to live by.
BlackTron
Member
I know that EVERYONE is jumping on the bandwagon making fun of the controller, but really. I'm not even making fun of the brand, or the fact that it's an old cheap game controller.
I would just, at least, have used a wired controller. I won't even use wireless for certain gameplay, nevermind exploring the real Titanic at 12000 feet
FullMetalx117
Member
I’m assuming you have a phobia of stepping outside as well
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I think you might be misinterpreting my intent.
I'm not posting out of jealousy (though I wouldn't mind a bit more cash as I'm looking at moving house soon), the point I was originally responding to was that some people don't think billionaires are nice guys and here's a simplification of why that might be.
If you were standing on the edge of a cliff looking at the rocks hundreds of feet below. A 5 year old kid comes running towards you, you can tell they don't realise the cliff is there, that they're going to fall to their death, their parents are too far away. If you reach out with one hand you'll be able to grab the child's jacket and save their life. Everyone will be very happy, and grateful. You'd feel very good about yourself.
Now consider that you're visiting a friend in hospital, and as you walk past you realise that the same kid whose life you saved is in hospital having developed a life threatening condition (unlucky kid huh!) you overhear that the family's insurance has been cancelled (for this is America) and they'll need to fund a course of drugs that'll cost 1 penny. A single penny. The parents break down in tears because they cannot possibly afford the penny. Nobody can. You look in your wallet and for some reason you've withdrawn some cash. You wallet has a million dollars in it.
You catch the eye of the parents, smile and wave as you visit your friend. That's your money, and it'd be inappropriate for anyone to say that you could do something wonderful. If you gave a penny away, you'd only have $999,999.99 on your wallet. Billionaire swag, baby.
That's not the same thing at all as wanting to make sure you die with enough money to be comfortable, even to leave to family. That's why the scale is so important.
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I'm never going to get over James Cameron going into the intricacies of the submersible community while being labelled as "Director: Titanic". Those two things seem so incongruent. Mad respect to him cutting though all the BS.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I don't know if you've come in late in this conversation, but my point remains the one I made when I started talking about this, that lots of people don't think that Billionaires are great people because they have the power to do good things, huge things that are out of reach of the average person. Because the negative effect on the billionaire of doing those things would be somewhere between negligible and zero, you might think that choosing to do nothing when you could easily do something (or ask one of your many assistants to do it for you) might be the act of someone who isn't the greatest.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I get what you're saying. If Mr Moneybags walks down the street, of course he can pay for everything. Not only medical bills, but he can give people a break and pay off their house, car and kids college tuition too.
I remember articles way back when Bill Gates was the man (now you dont really hear about anymore since he left MS) and someone would do math on how big of a town he could buy if everyone's home cost $300,000. It was stupid. He could buy buy a small town all by himself.
But end of the day, it's their money.
Also, you dont know if rich guys already give. For example, Steve Jobs was always labeled a snob. But supposedly he donated a lot money. But he just didn't publicize it. There's a lot of people who donate anonymously.
cash_longfellow
Member
Talked to him…he said he will, and soon as he figures out how to fit Titanic in one vhs tape.
GutsOfThor
Member
Lead content designer at Blizzard weighs in:
I'm no fan of rich people but fuck this commie shitheel.
Of course he deletes it like the little bitch he is. Nothing more than performative bullshit. If given the opportunity, most of these commie bastards would gladly become millionaires and billionaires
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I'm not saying that I think they should give money away, that they should buy up vast swathes of the Amazon and end deforestation, or fund 1000 kids who need cancer care, or whatever else.
But I do think that if you could do that, and it wouldn't affect you at all, but you instead just choose to hold onto as much as you can, to stay engaged in an arms race to see who can get the most then that probably says something about the kind of person you are.
And that's the kind of person that some people don't think is worth mourning.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
End of the day it really makes no difference what our viewpoints are because those millionaires and billionaires are the ones who control their own piles of cash and assets. Not us.
So I'd say just stop thinking about other people's money.
For example, there's two guys on my block who own awesome Corvettes. They dont even drive them. They are always in their garage. The only time I see them is when I walk or drive by their house and their garages are open. The only time I think of it is right now (my example), and those handful of times I catch a glimpse of them every couple months.
Who cares. I'm actually happy they got it and it's cool to see. One is an old yellow one. And the other is a sleek modern looking black one. if they got the best cars on the block and they never even bother driving them (they drive normal cars they park on their driveway), who cares. I dont sit at home wondering how or why they got them, if they should sell them and donate the cash or anything like that. It's their gear.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
True Lies 4k too.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I don't really understand your point here, my point is "this is why some people think Billionaires aren't great people" and then I explained it "because they could majorly and significantly change the world for good but still live a life of complete opulence, of unparalleled luxury, far beyond the reach of anyone else, but they appear to not want to do that, they're more focussed on themselves."
The scale is quite a bit different to your neighbour and their cars and is quite important.
That's why I don't think that not feeling inclined to mourn a billionaire is necessarily an un-relatable position, in the way that some people seem to. You might think of them as private individuals who worked hard and got what they deserved, and good for them. Other people see them as ruthlessly self serving people who in another setting would be shunned or thought of very negatively. That's what I was commenting on. I didn't say that the billionaires were bad people, that I spent time thinking about how much money people have, etc. Just that I understood the point of view.
I also said I thought it was sad to find out the detail of the son not wanting to take the trip. This isn't a happy story IMO, at all.
FWIW, I haven't taken stock of my neighbours' cars, of who has a nice one or how much they might be worth.
Cyberpunkd
Member
This guy is getting fired, right?Lead content designer at Blizzard weighs in:
Tams
Member
Apparently lawsuits may likely be possible as while they signed a waiver, that would not cover Oceangate if they are going to have deliberately deceived the customers as you the warcraft's safety (in this case, microscratches and features building up in the carbon fibre inevitably leading to catastrophic and abrupt failure - something very well known about in engineering and material science).
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I have more respect for him as an ocean explorer than as the guy who wasted the latter part of his career on blue cat people
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cash_longfellow
Member
You’re welcome, that’s what they pay me in gold for around hereAppreciate it
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BlackTron
Member
FTFY
BlackTron
Member
He's a Blizzard employee, he is more likely to get promoted
You'd think. Realize he is talking about the deaths of POC and a teenager, so even if it's the usual "old white guys" punching bag, it doesn't apply here.
nkarafo
Member
I still don't get what's the point of changing the materials in the first place?
The guy brags about breaking the rules and being innovative... But why? The point of this whole thing is to be tough enough to withstand pressure. The materials all other proper submersibles use up to this point work. So why change it? Is it cheaper? Did he think it's even stronger his way? He never explained this.
I also don't understand the design. I saw a few construction videos and pictures of a some submersibles and one thing they seem to share is a spherical main chamber (regardless how the outer shape looks). It's a sphere because this way pressure is applied evenly around it. They even try to make it as perfectly spherical as possible, according to the video i saw, for perfectly evenly applied pressure:
But the Oceangate sub clearly used a cylinder shaped main chamber? Dunno, maybe that's not an issue, i'm not an engineer expert, but if i was going to put myself into this situation, a sphere would make me feel better. It just feels right.
The guy brags about breaking the rules and being innovative... But why? The point of this whole thing is to be tough enough to withstand pressure. The materials all other proper submersibles use up to this point work. So why change it? Is it cheaper? Did he think it's even stronger his way? He never explained this.
I also don't understand the design. I saw a few construction videos and pictures of a some submersibles and one thing they seem to share is a spherical main chamber (regardless how the outer shape looks). It's a sphere because this way pressure is applied evenly around it. They even try to make it as perfectly spherical as possible, according to the video i saw, for perfectly evenly applied pressure:
But the Oceangate sub clearly used a cylinder shaped main chamber? Dunno, maybe that's not an issue, i'm not an engineer expert, but if i was going to put myself into this situation, a sphere would make me feel better. It just feels right.
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NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
It is surreal to me that James Cameron is one of the foremost experts on undersea exploration
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