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[Freeman76]

The way NG+ works is great. Definitely adds to the replayability.

Seems the community is split on this one.

For me NG+ kills the entire point of what makes Bethesda games great in the first place. Gather thousands of resources, build bases and ships, hoard cool stuff to decorate your apartment, then lose ALL IT ALL.

Designed to keep people playing?

My arse!!

As much as I thought the game was great, as soon as I hit NG+ I dropped it. Didnt even feel inspired to carry on with my first run knowing the whole idea is to keep running cycles.

For comparison, I played Starfield for 6 months straight, Fallout 3 and 4 almost the same. I LOVE bethesda games, yet the one Todd designed to be the most replayable, killed my interest after 3 weeks.

Loads of ppl seem to love it though so he obviously knew what he was doing, but I cant see the point of spending hours building bases (that literally have no use anyway) to just have them deleted over and over

 

[ahtlas7]

That’s why there are no vehicles….

 

[mejin]

He needs to keep talking about the game or people won't remember about It next year.

 

[Hudo]

Stop talking, Todd. Please...

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I don't know was anyone still playing Fallout 4 five years later?

 

[FeralEcho]

This guy is definitely Phil Spencer’s younger bro, I’m convinced. Everytime he opens his mouth I don’t believe a word he says.

And they both learned from the master

 

[killatopak]

I don't know was anyone still playing Fallout 4 five years later?

Yeah, me.

I play their games years and decades later. With or without mods. I may joke and criticize them about stuff but I do like their games still. I just want them to improve you know which in a lot of cases for Starfield, they didn’t.

Honestly, what draws me in their games is their lore. Fallout and TES have such interesting lores that I can watch hours and hours of lore vids endlessly and play them to immerse myself easily. I don’t know if that’s the case for Starfield. It’s pretty sterile.

 

[Three]

Well let me predict: planet vehicles coming in to facilitate your grand exploration as first paid DLC.

Why make essential QOL features available in base game if we can monetize as DLC that player will have not choice but buy?

"We sold the armour, why don't we sell the horse this time?"

 

[Heisenberg007]

So does this mean that Starfield is a GaaS game?

 

[Fess]

Don’t forget to watch the interview. For those who rushed in for a hot take and missed it it’s Insomniac’s Ted Price who asks the questions as a fan of the game and fellow game developer.



Regarding OP’s particular subject I can see it, I’m on my second playthrough now and ignoring the main quests and I’m still bombarded with activities and quests. Base building and ship building is a time sinker too.

But for anyone to play for years there needs to be a constant stream of new generated activities and they need to generate locations too that aren’t too similar.

It’s still maxing above 100k concurrent players on weekends a month after the release so for now it’s still in the post-launch period when people play it to see what it’s all about. There has been a drop but there will be a bigger drop eventually. Skyrim has stabilized at 20k concurrent, I think Starfield needs to stay there and not drop lower before the official tools arrive next year, otherwise it’ll need some kind of hyped 2.0 update to get people back in again. NG+ was a disappointment for me, I don’t think it holds up being played over and over like that, I started fresh instead.

 

[Neff]

The one thing potentially hampering replays I think is the way the game is structured. It seems to me that most of the good quests are available only on the planets with major cities, meaning it's fairly easy to expose yourself to the bulk of them. By contrast it's very rare to encounter any sidequest of note by randomly exploring, you'll always end up with the same 'give me a lift home/kill these spacers/find this scientist' etc. It's not like Fallout or Skyrim where you can just walk in a random direction and potentially find yourself embarking on a meaty quest placed in the middle of nowhere.

I still think the game is awesome but after 90 hours of play I am seeing a distinctly rigid method to the way players are introduced to the game's content compared to earlier Bethesda RPGs.

 

[Fess]

So does this mean that Starfield is a GaaS game?

He’s talking about how it’s structured regarding how the universe is generated at each run, it’s similar to Returnal in a way but on a bigger scale, and the amount of side activities and mission boards and modding as well as future expansions.

 

[StueyDuck]

Maybe they should have intentionally made it run properly and make it more enjoyable hayooooo!

I only joke (slightly) glad for those enjoying it. First Beth game I dropped after 20hrs with its poor writing and bloat and personally hope they really rethink things for ES6

 

[SJRB]

I couldn’t even make it past 50 hours, let alone 5 years.

 

[TheGodfather07]

They should have focused on quality instead of quantity. Starfield is shallow and boring.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

It worked for destiny eh

Destiny’s gameplay was incredibly well polished though, it was always a joy to play.

Starfield is “fine” at best.

I couldn’t even make it past 50 hours, let alone 5 years.

Think I last just over 3 hours.

 

[Heisenberg007]

He’s talking about how it’s structured regarding how the universe is generated at each run, it’s similar to Returnal in a way but on a bigger scale, and the amount of side activities and mission boards and modding as well as future expansions.

My question is: if the game was designed to last 5+ years, with DLCs and paid expansion packs all lined up already to extend its longevity, should it be considered a live-service GaaS?

 

[FunkMiller]

Becoming real obvious in this day and age that buying these kinds of games at launch is a waste of money.

 

[M1chl]

How long is Starfield? | HowLongToBeat

How long is Starfield? HowLongToBeat has the answer. Create a backlog, submit your game times and compete with your friends!

howlongtobeat.com

Doubt it

 

[Tomeru]

There was phil spencer says.
Now there is todd howard says.

I'm beginning to see a patern.

 

[Hudo]

And they both learned from the master

Hey, man. At least Molyneux made some good games earlier in his career: Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate, Populous 1 and 2 and arguably Fable 1.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'll always pop back in. Give me something truly extreme in neon please. I want space orgies!

 

[Heisenberg007]

There was phil spencer says.
Now there is todd howard says.

I'm beginning to see a patern.

Great (?) minds think alike.

 

[RJMacready73]

Is this not a case where community mods can really make this game shine by building out all the other worlds and adding in complex questlines and cool and interesting settlements/"dungeons" etc

 

[Dick Jones]

Don’t forget to watch the interview. For those who rushed in for a hot take and missed it it’s Insomniac’s Ted Price who asks the questions as a fan of the game and fellow game developer.



Regarding OP’s particular subject I can see it, I’m on my second playthrough now and ignoring the main quests and I’m still bombarded with activities and quests. Base building and ship building is a time sinker too.

But for anyone to play for years there needs to be a constant stream of new generated activities and they need to generate locations too that aren’t too similar.

It’s still maxing above 100k concurrent players on weekends a month after the release so for now it’s still in the post-launch period when people play it to see what it’s all about. There has been a drop but there will be a bigger drop eventually. Skyrim has stabilized at 20k concurrent, I think Starfield needs to stay there and not drop lower before the official tools arrive next year, otherwise it’ll need some kind of hyped 2.0 update to get people back in again. NG+ was a disappointment for me, I don’t think it holds up being played over and over like that, I started fresh instead.

Are we back to "the tools are coming" in the coping cycle? We can't be at a stage where we buy and game and then say wait until next year for the updates. Come on.

 

[Sybrix]

I am still really enjoying this game, 42 hours in.

That IGN review was so spot on, this game requires at least 10 hours play to understand it. But that ain't a good thing.

I'm struggling to understand if this game had been delayed by 6 months would these issues be present? I think the whole travelling around the game worlds is a design choice and was always gonna be there.

But the whole inventory system and general UI and game world maps, directions are such a mess, it seems to me 6 months delay would have sorted these issues.

 

[mdkirby]

This screams to me “don’t play it yet, it’ll be much better in a couple of years, when it’ll finally maybe be complete”.

I held off on cyberpunk a good 18month+ until they said “this is really now the version you should play”. Played it, it was good. Now they’ve released a new version that has fixed all the stuff that wasn’t fleshed out, made massive improvements, released an expansion that’s designed to be threaded in through the main narrative vs tagged onto the end, and are recommending replaying the 200hr game from scratch. Now I regret having already played it 10 months ago

 

[killatopak]

This screams to me “don’t play it yet, it’ll be much better in a couple of years, when it’ll finally maybe be complete”.

I held off on cyberpunk a good 18month+ until they said “this is really now the version you should play”. Played it, it was good. Now they’ve released a new version that has fixed all the stuff that wasn’t fleshed out, made massive improvements, released an expansion that’s designed to be threaded in through the main narrative vs tagged onto the end, and are recommending replaying the 200hr game from scratch. Now I regret having already played it 10 months ago

You regret playing it when you said it yourself that it was good? Now you get to play it again which is even better before. Isn’t that great?

You had a great time before. I don’t think that’s regrettable.

 

[Fess]

My question is: if the game was designed to last 5+ years, with DLCs and paid expansion packs all lined up already to extend its longevity, should it be considered a live-service GaaS?

Having post-launch support is expected today and we only know of one expansion, Skyrim had three. If they do more then great!
A service game is a whole other thing for me, especially when I’m on Steam and don’t use a service and don’t have a monthly fee.

Adding Gamepass to the mix makes your question better, the whole idea there is to get people to subscribe and keep adding content (games and expansions) so they keep subscribing to get that monthly ticker going, GaaS.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Starfield is an emotionless game. Come to think about it I've never cared for any npc in any Bethesda RPG. They live off *omg look at the scope and all the choices* but it doesn't matter when everything about their games are halfassed efforts. Starfield is like the first AAAA game that plays and feels like an AA game

 

[T4keD0wN]

Oh, i thought it being that way was a complete accident and the game was meant to be a 12 hour experience.

 

[mdkirby]

You regret playing it when you said it yourself that it was good? Now you get to play it again which is even better before. Isn’t that great?

You had a great time before. I don’t think that’s regrettable.

I primarily play games for a story, once it’s done I never touch them again. I’m also in my 40s, and tons of games release every year. Sinking another 100+ hrs into something I’ve already seen the story for is not an appealing prospect.

 

[FeralEcho]

Hey, man. At least Molyneux made some good games earlier in his career: Dungeon Keeper, Syndicate, Populous 1 and 2 and arguably Fable 1.

I'm not denying the man's contributions to the industry.He was a visionary same as Todd but as time passed they both got wrapped up in their own ego and stopped separating their vision from literal fantasy which is why they were/are spewing shit everytime they talk with things that get you hyped up but ultimately don't amount to anything or they are a letdown in execution. Thats why we have both as meme machines nowadays.

 

[killatopak]

I primarily play games for a story, once it’s done I never touch them again. I’m also in my 40s, and tons of games release every year. Sinking another 100+ hrs into something I’ve already seen the story for is not an appealing prospect.

In Cyberpunk’s case, you can skip everything and go straight to Phantom Liberty if you wish. That’s new content. I do however understand your point of view and that’s regrettable.

 

[Fess]

Are we back to "the tools are coming" in the coping cycle? We can't be at a stage where we buy and game and then say wait until next year for the updates. Come on.

The official modding tools aren’t coming until sometimes next year. Should’ve been there at launch but it didn’t happen. If you don’t care about mods then it’s nothing worth thinking about but if you do then you know it’ll change a lot, it’s why people are still playing Skyrim.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I feel like there is a major tradeoff when you design your game to be played continuously over a course of several years. I notice it with so many other titles. Game design is less interesting, but it designed to keep player playing the same kind of content over and over again. There is less focus overall, and the stories seem to be average at best. The quality all around suffers when making these everything games resulting in less handcrafted and impactful moments. Lots of padding and dull time-wasting activities.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Yeah, me.

I play their games years and decades later. With or without mods. I may joke and criticize them about stuff but I do like their games still. I just want them to improve you know which in a lot of cases for Starfield, they didn’t.

Honestly, what draws me in their games is their lore. Fallout and TES have such interesting lores that I can watch hours and hours of lore vids endlessly and play them to immerse myself easily. I don’t know if that’s the case for Starfield. It’s pretty sterile.

Bethesda Fallout is based on Interplay' original games so they didn't have to come up with the lore themselves.

 

[MDSLKTR]

I'm close to the end but I won't be playing again any time soon... Skill points are being drip-fed so slowly that multiple runs are a necessity to take advantage of the systems, respec isn't in and you're stuck with the same origin traits in ng+.
Ill check it out in 5 years if new hardware brute forces through loadings screens and framerate. Right now I'm exhausted.

 

[killatopak]

Bethesda Fallout is based on Interplay' original games so they didn't have to come up with the lore themselves.

True but they made some interesting additions as well along with NV which further fleshed out the west. The east of America is mostly Bethesda lore.

They did however make TES by themselves.

I guess you can argue that they were standing on the back of the great writers who laid the foundation and now that they have to come up with something on their own, they fall short.

 

[FlyyGOD]

they were already owned by Microsoft during their last nearly 2 years of development so yes?

Microsoft pushed the game back a year fir polishing. You're reaching.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Considering how *very* far is the next BGS game, It's not like player have choices.

 

[Raven117]

I primarily play games for a story, once it’s done I never touch them again. I’m also in my 40s, and tons of games release every year. Sinking another 100+ hrs into something I’ve already seen the story for is not an appealing prospect.

this is me man. I’m not going to run a game again. I Can count in one hand how many times I’ve done it and it’s been years, maybe decades between playthroughs.

 

[John Marston]

I feel like I'm about to get force choked by Todd from that picture.

Nooo Todd I looove you!

 

[John Marston]

Considering how *very* far is the next BGS game, It's not like player have choices.

That tribble rat wookie ZoukGalaxy

 

[Luipadre]

They way they patch this game, i believe it. At this point official DLSS support and a fucking brightness slider comes out next year

 

[graywolf323]

Microsoft pushed the game back a year fir polishing. You're reaching.

what am I reaching about? all I’m doing is correcting you saying they weren’t owned by Microsoft during a period that they actually were

DLC should have always been expected for this game anyway GamePass or not since that’s what they’ve been doing for a long long time now (Fallout 3, Skyrim, Fallout 4, etc.) & hopefully we get some great DLC that improves upon the game (Fallout 4 for example I’d say especially benefitted from Far Harbor)

 

[Mephisto40]

Bethesda is working on a 'five-year roadmap' for Fallout 76

It sounds like Bethesda plans to support Fallout 76 for quite some time.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[cireza]

As far as I am concerned, I quit after 20 hours of "Why are you carrying all this stuff around, you dumb or what ?" and "Great I am traveling with a criminal !". 20 hours is not a very long time.

I have much better memories of Morrowind on Xbox OG.

 

[Madserb2023]

Would have preferred a smaller more polished product. They have obviously been taking notes from bungie.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I don’t think this will have the same legs that Skyrim has. Skyrim is a vastly better game. This got boring at the 8 hour mark and I just couldn’t play anymore after 12. It’s just so fucking lifeless.