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Toonami |JulAug17| Most Definitely the Work of an Enemy Stand

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Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
cntr said:
The real issue with Dragon Ball is that it started out as a light-hearted comedic series, and so the general inconsistency of the universe makes sense when everything was always a bit tongue-in-cheek. Z, on the other hand, is really serious all the way through, which brings with it an expectation of more consistency than a light-hearted series does.

I suspect, in retrospect, that the editor interference that resulted in Cell and Buu just caused the seriousness of the Frieza saga to take over the entire series, and it wasn't meant to be that way. And the anime ups the seriousness even more, hence Toriyama pushing hard in the other direction with Super.
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Considering what I've heard of how much his editor kept interfering during Cell, I guess I can't place all the blame on Toriyama himself. But yeah, it's during the Cell arc/when the androids appear to which the issues I have start appearing way more often & in a worse way.

But yeah, I actually like the original Dragon Ball & last night's Super was hilarious. Z, on the other hand, I can tolerate up to the Frieza fight, but then Cell & especially Buu just reuses all the tropes from the Frieza arc but makes them worse & ramps up the seriousness. It just feels like the show is on repeat with a new skin over the bad guy.

To me, that seriousness is what ruins DBZ. The Gohan slice-of-life at the beginning was actually rather fun. Battle of Gods was great, easily one of my favorite things to come out of DBZ, because it knew it needed to be fun most of the time, but only have it be serious when it truly needed to. Super seems to have a good understanding of including more light hearted & comedic moments to break up the "tension". When it has its head up its ass on trying to be all Mr. "We Need To Take EVERYTHING Seriously", it falls completely flat because it just makes me want to point out the inconsistencies & flaws even more because they go against the show's tone.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Without considering what came afterwards, the Frieza saga feels like it was meant to be one of those "serious arcs in a comedy series", like what series like Gintama have. Except series like Gintama return to comedy right after, while DBZ stuck with seriousness.

So blame it on Frieza being too popular, Android 19 and 20 not being popular enough, and the editors insisting that Toriyama do it again, I guess.
 
C

caliph95

Member
I mean 17 and 18 were replaced before they were on the page I think or before they could get popular or unpopular

He tried to get back to that with Fat buu but super buu came along
 
C

cntr

Banned
It does feel like Toriyama was trying to return to goofiness with Teen Gohan and Saiyaman, but that wasn't popular either, so...
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
cntr said:
Without considering what came afterwards, the Frieza saga feels like it was meant to be one of those "serious arcs in a comedy series", like what series like Gintama have. Except series like Gintama return to comedy right after, while DBZ stuck with seriousness.

So blame it on Frieza being too popular, Android 16 and 17 not being popular enough, and the editors insisting that Toriyama do it again, I guess.
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I can totally agree with this. It's probably why Super has more comedy, trying to return back to its roots. It would also explain Saiyaman & the slice of life stuff with Gohan in high school, perhaps Toriyama was trying to go back to comedy but then the editors were all "NO, MAKE IT SERIOUS AGAIN."

Toriyama can be a funny guy, but it seems like nobody wants him to actually be a comedian, which he is much better at.
 
C

cntr

Banned
__guillermo_del_toro_agsmj.png
 
C

Chaotic-Strike

Banned
Zonic said:
Alright, so, I might as well ask a valid question instead of just ranting about another of DBZ's many problems.

How "powerful" is Shenron exactly? We've never given any indication (from what I can remember) of his "strength" or "power" aside from summoning items for people or bringing back hundreds of people back from the dead except for those who're "more powerful" or being told "I can't do it because *insert character like Beerus* is stronger than me"

Not to mention, it's been stated they can create new dragon balls as shown by the Namekian ones, so why not make some that're able to do more powerful things?

Edit: I guess just to cover all my bases, do we know if Shenron has the power to grant a wish among the lines of "I wish we could go back a day" or "please take us back to 6 hours ago" similar to Whis?
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They did try to wish King Piccolo away back in Dragon Ball.

It didn't turn out well for them. He then immediately kills Shenron once his wish is granted.
 
C

cntr

Banned
You know, it's kind of weird when you realize it, but Piccolo and Kami were both considered demons for all of Dragon Ball. And Goku would've been just a magical monkey-human, Journey to the West style, and everybody reading it would've thought of them that way.

It's only in Z that Piccolo, Kami, and Goku became aliens, which must've blown minds back in the day.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Mizerman said:
Tao was that boy during his short stint in DB.
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iirc he was the first one to actually beat Goku, so Goku had to leave and get stronger before they fought again

before that the show was just "look how strong this kid is OH CRAP A GIANT MONKEY"
 
B

BBboy20

Member
*presses pause after Light makes his first kill*

..............So people making Final Destination comparisons to the Death Note movie........they were correct.............I don't have enough beer for this shit.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
I get they wanted to have more variety to the deaths than just "heart attack" & it would help seem less suspicious if it wasn't the same method of dying over & over (as I recall, the fact so many people were having heart attacks was what spurred L into wanting to investigate because he thought that was very suspicious), but it sounds like the actual execution is very poor.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Zonic said:
I get they wanted to have more variety to the deaths than just "heart attack" & it would help seem less suspicious if it wasn't the same method of dying over & over (as I recall, the fact so many people were having heart attacks was what spurred L into wanting to investigate because he thought that was very suspicious), but it sounds like the actual execution is very poor.
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It not like it matters since with the short running time L figure out quickly anyway
 
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