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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
Alfarif said:
I'm one of those people, and it's just that, a joke, not something done in disgust. Tell me if you guys think it's offensive, and I'll stop. I'm one of those people who laughs about (and not at) everything, so it's not intended to hurt.
I can't begin to imagine what it must be like to not know what you are for so long. When do you guys and gals start to realize you're not in the 'right' body? At around the same time most homosexuals realize they're not heteros?
Good luck to all you, even though Western society is one of the most liberal ones in all that relates to LGBT, it's still got a lot left to do..
NewGamePlus
Member
That's part of the reason I posted. Even at 21, looking back I knew there was something wrong. It makes me wonder how things might of turned out had I said something ten years ago. But there's no use dwelling on what is done when I feel I have a definite say in the future now.Wrath2X said:
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
Im not a tranny (is that a bad word?) or gay and Ive never met a trans-gendered person before so I have some questions. I'll wait until I get the ok from the t-gaffers before I ask. Dont wanna ruin the thread.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
lexi said:
Aight cool, here's my question (I think I read about this in an article) but when you meet a guy at a bar/club/etc, do you usually tell them you're TG? In the article I read, the women didn't tell the man she was with because she felt it wasn't her responsibility to tell anyone and s(h)e had a right to privacy or something like that.
Growing up in Bumblefuck, WV, I was never really exposed to the transgendered community until I hit college. I have a question to prevent myself from sounding ignorant in the future.
There was a guy I used to work with who, at night, did drag shows at our local gay bar. Sometimes when he would come to his day job, he would come as his male self. Other times, she would be "Aubree". Anyway, the fact of the matter was that I wasn't sure what to refer to him/her in terms of pronouns. I tried my damnedest to stay away from using them when referring to him/her when at work, but I found it unavoidable at times. Looking back, I know I could have asked her and she wouldn't have cared in the slightest. I guess I was just embarrassed. Would I just use "her" all of the time or just go interchangeably depending on what she was dressed as that day?
Once again, I ask that you please forgive my ignorance. This is just for future reference, as I believe she's going full-on to become MtF. I just wondered how I should handle this. Thanks!
Also, this thread's really great. If it can help to enlighten just a few, it's still done an excellent job.
There was a guy I used to work with who, at night, did drag shows at our local gay bar. Sometimes when he would come to his day job, he would come as his male self. Other times, she would be "Aubree". Anyway, the fact of the matter was that I wasn't sure what to refer to him/her in terms of pronouns. I tried my damnedest to stay away from using them when referring to him/her when at work, but I found it unavoidable at times. Looking back, I know I could have asked her and she wouldn't have cared in the slightest. I guess I was just embarrassed. Would I just use "her" all of the time or just go interchangeably depending on what she was dressed as that day?
Once again, I ask that you please forgive my ignorance. This is just for future reference, as I believe she's going full-on to become MtF. I just wondered how I should handle this. Thanks!
Also, this thread's really great. If it can help to enlighten just a few, it's still done an excellent job.
lexi said:
Oh, I mean, I know there's a difference between drag and being transgendered, but she told me she was wanting to become a woman. When she came as Aubree to work, I assumed that was her, well, trying things out, you know?
EDIT: And in the future, I'll most definitely just ask them. Thanks a lot!
Had to make this thread while I slept, huh? I wanted to be on the first page. 
Broodax, you junior, there can only be one Bridget!
I guess I'm kinda similar to you; I don't fit in with guys at all, and hate being male, but I don't necessarily 'click' as female either. (Then again I hardly 'click' anywhere; gamers, programmers, furries, whatever I try to be part of.) But I don't wanna be, like, in the middle. But I'm too neurotic and afraid
to actually start hormones. It's so stressful though. I mean, I hate pretending to be male, I hate that I can't find a boyfriend who isn't just looking for a kink, I hate pretty much any given part of my body (though some of it's the damn supermodel brainwashing; I'm not that fat and I'm still trying to diet).
I'm 22 and I already feel like I'm waiting too long.
Broodax, you junior, there can only be one Bridget!
That's not true.
and kept down by my parents
I'm 22 and I already feel like I'm waiting too long.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I want to show my support for this thread. Transgenders really deserve more general acceptance by society. Nice to see at least in this little internet corner of the world, people can be civil.
Skittleguy
Ring a Bell for me
This thread actually got me thinking: I have a lot of trangendered friends. In fact, I think my trans friends outnumber my gay and straight friends by a wide margin.
Jugendstil
Member
Glad to see this thread and just showing my support to TransGAF.
I'm not transgendered... and I'm not much of a trans-anything really; I'm too much of a nihilist to be a transcendentalist. I'm just coming in to say I think your banner looks nice.
I totally support your cause, since I believe you can do whatever you damn well please with your own body. So, as long as you don't invent some bizarre laser beam that will turn the entire continent into the opposite gender, I'm not gonna protest your actions.
Just for clarification: When I say 'you' and 'your' I mean it in a general sense, addressing all those who are a part of this, not just the OP.
I totally support your cause, since I believe you can do whatever you damn well please with your own body. So, as long as you don't invent some bizarre laser beam that will turn the entire continent into the opposite gender, I'm not gonna protest your actions.
Just for clarification: When I say 'you' and 'your' I mean it in a general sense, addressing all those who are a part of this, not just the OP.
Except for my comment about the banner. OP is awesome for making it.
krypt0nian
Banned
btkadams said:
All the love in the world for this thread.
"You have my sword!"
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Segata Sanshiro said:
I completely agree. Even though I was born both biologically and mentally as a woman, I have friends who have had tough times (and some who still are struggling) both with their gender identity and the attempt to get understanding from the world around them.
Not TG but supportive of the cause and had a question. I understand the value of HRT, but in the case of alteration surgery, does sex lose it's pleasure? Obviously MtF and FtM are very different types of surgery, but it was always my understanding that the surgery will essentially destroy the nerve endings necessary to experience an orgasm.
Android18a
Member
Wrath2X said:
I'd be happy as pre-op for now, but that opinion could change down the line. It's a *huge* step though that one!
Dude Abides
Banned
Good thread.
Dur hurr Admiral Ackbar so witty and original.
Dur hurr Admiral Ackbar so witty and original.
Weird questions:
What sort of pornography do you like? It seems to me that most transgendered and lesbian porn is made for straight males, and probably might not appeal that much to actual TGs and lesbians.
I've heard several people claim that the majority of crossdressers are actually heterosexual males. Is this true? Supposedly this revelation was in the Kinsey Report, but I haven't seen it corroborated anywhere reliable.
What sort of pornography do you like? It seems to me that most transgendered and lesbian porn is made for straight males, and probably might not appeal that much to actual TGs and lesbians.
I've heard several people claim that the majority of crossdressers are actually heterosexual males. Is this true? Supposedly this revelation was in the Kinsey Report, but I haven't seen it corroborated anywhere reliable.
JessicaPadkin
Member
Great topic!
It's interesting reading these comments because, even though I'm a cis woman, at lot of what you're saying does resonate with me to an extent.
Personally, I struggled with my gender identity growing up, but it was pretty much the opposite of what you all experienced! I was lucky to have a mother who strongly encouraged individuality, and in many ways I really don't fit gender roles at all. I play video games, often ones that are violent or competitive. I don't particularly want to be stereotypically pretty. I don't want to have children or get married. I have a strong drive for personal success. I'm not into men that are (considered to be) very masculine... and so on.
Everything I was being taught was telling me that I was a bad woman, and that I must be masculine. But... I AM a woman. I've never had any reason to doubt that... I would fantasise that the male characters in kid's films were women because I wanted to identify with a brave, smart woman for once, all my sexual fantasies were from my point of view as a woman, and well... I like my vulva. >_> It's taken a lot of time to accept that my gender and my personality are independent, and to be able to ignore all of the pressure and the criticism that suggests that I should act in a way that doesn't feel natural to me.
I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but eh. I guess it's that traditionally gender is thought to be defined by your body/personality, but in reality I think it's something even more personal than that.
It's interesting reading these comments because, even though I'm a cis woman, at lot of what you're saying does resonate with me to an extent.
Personally, I struggled with my gender identity growing up, but it was pretty much the opposite of what you all experienced! I was lucky to have a mother who strongly encouraged individuality, and in many ways I really don't fit gender roles at all. I play video games, often ones that are violent or competitive. I don't particularly want to be stereotypically pretty. I don't want to have children or get married. I have a strong drive for personal success. I'm not into men that are (considered to be) very masculine... and so on.
Everything I was being taught was telling me that I was a bad woman, and that I must be masculine. But... I AM a woman. I've never had any reason to doubt that... I would fantasise that the male characters in kid's films were women because I wanted to identify with a brave, smart woman for once, all my sexual fantasies were from my point of view as a woman, and well... I like my vulva. >_> It's taken a lot of time to accept that my gender and my personality are independent, and to be able to ignore all of the pressure and the criticism that suggests that I should act in a way that doesn't feel natural to me.
I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but eh. I guess it's that traditionally gender is thought to be defined by your body/personality, but in reality I think it's something even more personal than that.
Does anyone know what might be some of the biological causes behind transgenderism?
I mean, males and females are derived from the XY and XX chromosome respectively... but what's the biological basis for identifying so strongly with your 'non-biological' gender, when the X or the Y aren't present?
Is it a hormonal thing?
Or is it perhaps a personality type thing?
I mean in the sense that most people don't have a mental default, other than the fact they were born into their male or female body... or to put it another way, if you were to displace the mind of the person (of most people) into a body of the opposite gender, they'd simply identify with the body's gender... but some, at the ends of the bell curve, in someway identify with a specific gender irrespective of their body type.
Not so much seeking to judge... but I'm interested less in the feelings and in understanding why this phenomenon exists.
Is it biological? Social? Cultural? Is it a 'perversion', or fantasy that imbeds itself so strongly into the psyche? Is it a possible combination of all these causes, such that you're not going to get a uniform answer among the population of TG people.
To put it another way, I like most males have fantasized about the ability to adopt the body of the opposite gender for a day... if you were to ask if people would want the ability to morph at will between the two genders, I think many would be intrigued by the idea; and without strings, would probably accept it.
But that isn't the same kind of mindset shared by been transgendered? Or is it a less severe form of that mindset?
Do transgendered people exist on the similar scale to the kinsey scale? Where homosexuality isn't on or off, but a spectrum?
In this case, what causes that distribution to seem like a binomial one, is the fact that the person with TG thoughts has to get past the barrier of living like the opposite gender; dressing, acting, taking hormones, having the surgery.
Also, how do we differentiate between people that simply wish to engage in roles, activities and behaviours, traditionally considered gender-opposite (in the case of guys, staying home, taking care of the kids, wearing dresses, etc, in the case of women, before the 1950s, going out starting a career, etc) and people that associate strongly as the opposite-gender, independent of these things?
Is a gay-man that also cross-dresses a tg without realising that he is? Or does he also need to feel the urge to have breasts, mother a child (knowing that this is a biological impossibility, irrespective of what surgery can do), etc?
Speaking of which... what urges do people that believe themselves to be TG feel, before they come to realise that they are TG? Does mothering a child rank among any of it? An attachment to breasts?
Sorry if these questions are a bit too much... I simply seek to understand the boundaries of what we consider to be innate parts of gender differences (outside of the physical differences), and what parts of gender identity are social constructs that can vary from culture to culture.
I mean, males and females are derived from the XY and XX chromosome respectively... but what's the biological basis for identifying so strongly with your 'non-biological' gender, when the X or the Y aren't present?
Is it a hormonal thing?
Or is it perhaps a personality type thing?
I mean in the sense that most people don't have a mental default, other than the fact they were born into their male or female body... or to put it another way, if you were to displace the mind of the person (of most people) into a body of the opposite gender, they'd simply identify with the body's gender... but some, at the ends of the bell curve, in someway identify with a specific gender irrespective of their body type.
Not so much seeking to judge... but I'm interested less in the feelings and in understanding why this phenomenon exists.
Is it biological? Social? Cultural? Is it a 'perversion', or fantasy that imbeds itself so strongly into the psyche? Is it a possible combination of all these causes, such that you're not going to get a uniform answer among the population of TG people.
To put it another way, I like most males have fantasized about the ability to adopt the body of the opposite gender for a day... if you were to ask if people would want the ability to morph at will between the two genders, I think many would be intrigued by the idea; and without strings, would probably accept it.
But that isn't the same kind of mindset shared by been transgendered? Or is it a less severe form of that mindset?
Do transgendered people exist on the similar scale to the kinsey scale? Where homosexuality isn't on or off, but a spectrum?
In this case, what causes that distribution to seem like a binomial one, is the fact that the person with TG thoughts has to get past the barrier of living like the opposite gender; dressing, acting, taking hormones, having the surgery.
Also, how do we differentiate between people that simply wish to engage in roles, activities and behaviours, traditionally considered gender-opposite (in the case of guys, staying home, taking care of the kids, wearing dresses, etc, in the case of women, before the 1950s, going out starting a career, etc) and people that associate strongly as the opposite-gender, independent of these things?
Is a gay-man that also cross-dresses a tg without realising that he is? Or does he also need to feel the urge to have breasts, mother a child (knowing that this is a biological impossibility, irrespective of what surgery can do), etc?
Speaking of which... what urges do people that believe themselves to be TG feel, before they come to realise that they are TG? Does mothering a child rank among any of it? An attachment to breasts?
Sorry if these questions are a bit too much... I simply seek to understand the boundaries of what we consider to be innate parts of gender differences (outside of the physical differences), and what parts of gender identity are social constructs that can vary from culture to culture.
Crash Station
Member
Just wanted to pop in and show my support. You guys definitely seem to have an uphill battle in terms of acceptance (at least that's what I've seen) but I'll always be rooting for you. I can't say I directly know any transgender people but I know people with friends and relatives. One of my college friend's dad is now transgender.
B1gg_Randall
Member
I didnt know that..Wrath2X said:
The Lamonster
Member
I've never understood the difference between homo and TG.
For example, say a woman is trapped in a man's body. You have a man that likes men. Isn't that simply a gay man?
For example, say a woman is trapped in a man's body. You have a man that likes men. Isn't that simply a gay man?
Skittleguy
Ring a Bell for me
No cause that's a woman who likes men, while the gay guy is still a man who likes men.The Lamonster said:
JumpJeff84
Member
Another straight male just sayin' hi...
Over the past couple years I've become friends with a few FTM Transgendered in the Seattle and Vancouver area.
It's interesting the diversity. Some of them are very masculine, and some just have the traits of extremely 'butch' (for lack of a better word) lesbians.
The really interesting ones are the ones that come across as the stereotypical effeminate gay male. A few that I've met are extremely convincing- the trippy part is that some are into guys and some are into girly-girls. It can really be a mindfuck (in a good way) to see those ones hitting on/making out with feminine ladies.
Haven't really met too may MTF, at least that I know of.
On an unrelated note, I'd reccomend the documentary 'Paris is Burning' to pretty much anyone. Not the definitive word on the subject by any means, but a really entertaining and heartbreaking film that partially focusses on transgendered people in mid 80s New York. It's a great 'slice of New York' film, and something really special.
Over the past couple years I've become friends with a few FTM Transgendered in the Seattle and Vancouver area.
It's interesting the diversity. Some of them are very masculine, and some just have the traits of extremely 'butch' (for lack of a better word) lesbians.
The really interesting ones are the ones that come across as the stereotypical effeminate gay male. A few that I've met are extremely convincing- the trippy part is that some are into guys and some are into girly-girls. It can really be a mindfuck (in a good way) to see those ones hitting on/making out with feminine ladies.
Haven't really met too may MTF, at least that I know of.
On an unrelated note, I'd reccomend the documentary 'Paris is Burning' to pretty much anyone. Not the definitive word on the subject by any means, but a really entertaining and heartbreaking film that partially focusses on transgendered people in mid 80s New York. It's a great 'slice of New York' film, and something really special.
The Lamonster
Member
Interesting. How do they tell the difference? I guess that's part of the struggle while growing up.Skittleguy said:
Android18a
Member
Skittleguy said:
Plus, many TGs don't like men.
And many gay guys wouldn't want to look anything like a woman because they don't find that appealing.
Even within the TG scope, there's such a broad spectrum of straight, bi, gay and all sorts. But to equate a gay man and a TG as the same thing is totally incorrect. They are two unrelated states.
A gay man feels like a man. A tg woman feels like... a woman. Or a woman "trapped" in a mans body.
I know that I in no way consider myself a man. A gay person would.
Basically it's not Sexual Preference, but Sexual Identity. Its not them, its you, so to speak.
The Lamonster
Member
So how do people deal with that? Embrace your identity (clothes, hair, surgery?), or just deal with being what you are biologically?Android18a said:
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Not a big fan of porn. When i do its usually straight porn.. but sometimes a guy in a gay porn will catch my eye lol Transgendered porn doesnt really cater to me though.border said:
Could be. Some people need an outlet for their feminine side. Its sad that any sign of femininity is considered a sign of weakness or whatever for guys. Most crossdressers i know do it mostly for this kind release and also for sexual gratification.
Here are things to consider.. therapy, hormones, electrolysis, facial feminization surgery, sexual reassignment surgery, ongoing care for the rest of your life. What the final cost is depends on what needs doing and what you are willing to pay for. Some girls are lucky enough to not need facial surgery.. others are fortunate to have very little body hair so the need for super lengthy electrolysis is absent. If you had to get everything, figure around $50k. The price could go up much higher depending on the quality of the doctors.. it could also go a little lower in the same way.i_am_ben said:
Perfectly happy being pre-op? No but there are some times when i think i can make live with it. Havent had that thought in a while though. Right now its full transition for me. Things can change, however.Wrath2X said:
There is a chance that orgasm via what was once penile tissue will be lost. As surgery techniques get more advanced the chances go up though. im not really well versed on ftm stuff but from what ive heard from a couple people, they dont have much too worry about when it comes to sexual pleasure afterwards.mernst23 said:
All of this is like asking what makes someone homosexual as opposed to heterosexual. Who really knows? Theres some evidence that it may be genetic.. there also some that it might be environmental.. its probably a mix of the two.Zaptruder said:
If you could change your body or you just found yourself in a different body how do you think you would view yourself? As a woman or as a man in a womans body? i dont really have any other answers for these because they are generally unanswerable :lol
Now you are getting a little weird :lol Afaik the Kinsey scale applies to everyone.
Its up to the person to figure out their identity, not me.
Youd have to ask them :lol Just because someone dresses up in different clothes doesnt mean they always view themselves as being in the wrong body. Some people just do it to have fun.. see drag performers.
For me, yes. ive often found myself mothering animals.
No worries :lol Trying to answer your post felt like talking with someone speaking a million miles a minute though :lol
Although I'm a hetero here, just popping in to show support for this thread! Always wondered if GAF had many transgender users. I don't really have much to add other than a story of a good friend who went from male to female.
I used to be good friends with a guy several years ago and we would hang out and drink and get together with seven or eight other friends and just jam instrumental music all the time. It was tons of fun. He was probably 20 or 21 at this point and "straight" and dating a cute lady.
First two times they tried to have sex, he couldn't climax and eventually they broke up and he came out as bisexual to us, which none of us cared about of course. He then later came out as gay, and over a year or two began doing drag and talking about how he wanted to become a female and that he had always felt "different" in that way since he was very young.
He was from a catholic family, and it was great how supportive they were of him (I live in Oklahoma) and he had gone to a christian or catholic school his whole life too. Everybody around him was great about it and encouraged him as he began taking taking horomones. Was nice to see how much happier he became.
Luckily for her (and now forever a 'her'), she was already had a somewhat feminine figure and ending up being one of the most attractive transgender females I've seen (shoot, I'd have probably hit if it she wasn't my friend and didn't have a penis).
She ended up moving to Denver for a great job opportunity. She was planning to go post-op, but I've lost contact with her and have no idea where she's at now. I think she was planning to go to Thailand or somewhere for the op... supposedly great doctors for that wherever it was.
All in all, it was great to see how much support she had and how she still had tons of dating opportunities. I'd also like to use this story to say that even in southern states like Oklahoma, especially in the big cities here, the annoying and sweeping general statements all over GAF aren't true for a lot of the people here.
I used to be good friends with a guy several years ago and we would hang out and drink and get together with seven or eight other friends and just jam instrumental music all the time. It was tons of fun. He was probably 20 or 21 at this point and "straight" and dating a cute lady.
First two times they tried to have sex, he couldn't climax and eventually they broke up and he came out as bisexual to us, which none of us cared about of course. He then later came out as gay, and over a year or two began doing drag and talking about how he wanted to become a female and that he had always felt "different" in that way since he was very young.
He was from a catholic family, and it was great how supportive they were of him (I live in Oklahoma) and he had gone to a christian or catholic school his whole life too. Everybody around him was great about it and encouraged him as he began taking taking horomones. Was nice to see how much happier he became.
Luckily for her (and now forever a 'her'), she was already had a somewhat feminine figure and ending up being one of the most attractive transgender females I've seen (shoot, I'd have probably hit if it she wasn't my friend and didn't have a penis).
She ended up moving to Denver for a great job opportunity. She was planning to go post-op, but I've lost contact with her and have no idea where she's at now. I think she was planning to go to Thailand or somewhere for the op... supposedly great doctors for that wherever it was.
All in all, it was great to see how much support she had and how she still had tons of dating opportunities. I'd also like to use this story to say that even in southern states like Oklahoma, especially in the big cities here, the annoying and sweeping general statements all over GAF aren't true for a lot of the people here.