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[Angry Grimace]

I would like to think that most liberal GAF understand the necessity of taxes across the board as a way to pay for public welfare and services like healthcare and education.

Lets RAISE Taxes across the board and pay for everyone to get a college degree or move to a single payer healthcare system.

I'm not saying I have a solution to this, but it bothers me we need to raise taxes across the board for college degrees when so few jobs legitimately require some kind of job skill you get in college. Even with a lot of the STEM degrees you mostly obtain actual job skills at post-secondary education.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

A lot of ignorance in this thread on the IRS. They do A LOT more than collect taxes. Getting rid of the agency wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[Link]

A lot of ignorance in this thread on the IRS. They do A LOT more than collect taxes. Getting rid of the agency wouldn't be a good idea.

You can't blame people for believing what the GOP, Fox News, and conservative radio constantly spoon-feed them. Research is for suckers.

 

[Lathentar]

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

What's the problem again, paying people welfare? There is no issue cutting a check.

Of course, you want taxes to regulate the currency in circulation.

Note: This is for the federal government only.

 

[RDreamer]

Spoilers. In the US, they get the money from themselves. Just print more. Taxes are just a way to regulate the currency in circulation.

This.

Unless you're talking about state government.

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

That's what we have been doing for hundreds of years and what we will do for hundreds more. Read what he said again and do some research on fiat currency. He is not giving a "solution," he's telling you a fact

 

[Orbis Tabula]

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

Well what he's saying is that while many people view it as "The government gets money from people, then spends that money" you could just as easily model it in your mind as "Government prints money and puts it in to circulation, then taxes it to destroy it." He's not saying that his solution is to just print more money. He's saying that that's already what they do when they spend.

 

[Sub_Level]

This would make my job at H&R Block almost disappear.

I guess Trump would like that though.

Even Jesus was not a fan of tax collectors tbh

 

[Timeaisis]

Sounds good to me, if he actually followed through with this.

 

[God Dayumm]

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

Speaking about it, aren't we in government shutdown season?

 

[Griss]

Surprisingly not the worst tax solution I've ever heard.

Still, for me the big worldwide issue regarding taxes is the $21 trillion hidden off-shore by the super rich, and the amount that is further extracted from countries worldwide every year to add to that, often without being taxed. This money is no longer beneficial to society, it just sits there. It's not being spent and taxed, just hoarded. It needs to be found and taxed. These loopholes CAN be closed, given the political will.

To quote Forbes: If all the $21 trillion that has been offshored earned 3% a year and that was taxed at 30%, it would raise $188 billion in revenues, more than rich countries spend on aid to the developing world every year.

Instead, it just benefits the rich, and frankly given the money they already have it doesn't benefit them at all - it makes no difference to their lives. That's what makes me really sick. Trusts were a good idea with proper uses but the abuse of them and other related entities is completely out of control.

I'm also quite ashamed of the way the Irish government has manipulated our tax code to allow companies to vastly reduce their tax liabilities with the classic 'Double Irish'. It has long been essentially a tacit agreement between the Irish Government and multinationals to fuck their home countries out of owed tax revenue in return for doing business in Ireland, but it doesn't benefit Ireland anything as much as it should considering what the companies get out of it. Thank god it looks like that scheme may end, but it took forever. Some new country will now simply copy Ireland and the cycle will continue. It has to be stopped.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent.

 

[ICKE]

This is such an inane plan but will no doubt excite a lot of people who don't understand how various programs are funded.. As long as some politician promises more money right now, then that takes priority over common sense.

Trump promises universal health coverage, a strong military, to deport millions of people and all these pies in the sky while also presenting a plan that eliminates a substantial amount of the tax revenue.

If he wins, it would be a good lesson and might also end USA's status as a superpower. Then again, a majority of the electorate never learned after George Bush so that's basically a moot point.

 

[statham]

I like the plan, don't think the numbers will even out, but if they do. Hot damn.

Best thing about this, is Other Republicans will have to defend giving tax cuts to the rich.

 

[ICKE]

I like the plan, don't think the numbers will even out, but if they do. Hot damn.

Best thing about this, is Other Republicans will have to defend giving tax cuts to the rich.

This whole plan is one massive tax cut to the wealthiest % of the country. You look at the tax revenue and comparatively it would increase the burden of those who earn around 55k $.

Bring home 55 000 $ you pay 20%
Bring home 20 000 000 $ you pay 25%

 

[OuterLimits]

I do find it interesting that many Republican rivals say Trump never talks policy. However I believe this is his third big policy plan? I know he released an immigration policy paper, and a I think a 2nd Amendment position as well?

In some aspects he has gone more in depth on policy than his rivals.

 

[Phreaker]

So more than 50% of the population will pay nothing? He says unemployment is at 42%.

 

[Coriolanus]

Federal government doesn't get money from taxes, fwiw. All they do for it is remove that money from circulation.

 

[Damerman]

so closing loopholes and higher tariffs on business's who hire abroad is going to be able to sustain ~20% of amarican's not paying any taxes and 15% tax for all businesses?

i need for this plan to have comprehensive documents with real number crunching, cuz i'm not believing any of this.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I'm utterly befuddled at people saying this plan isn't so bad or is different than the standard right wing stuff. Uh, no, it's pretty much exactly the normal right wing stuff that's utterly impossible to do with real world math. People assume there are bigger loopholes to close than there really are and the odds that many of the largest sources of deductions are removed are likely somewhere between nil and zero.

So the end result is that the people with the highest level of income will see massive tax cuts where some moderate deductions being removed ore reduced will not even come close to making up the amount lost to much lower rates.

In regards to federal taxation, it will help the lowest income earners. Well, sorta. It will help them on federal income taxes but they'll probably be hammered by reduced federal services and support thanks to the massive cuts needed to fund this plan. So maybe they'll end up better off but maybe they'll end up worse off when everything is looked at.

And then you have the middle income earners. Given the proposed rate changes and "the closing of loopholes", it's quite possible (perhaps even likely) that many middle income earners will see their taxes stay the same or even increase dramatically. And the reason why is simple: At this point in the income scale deductions are pretty damn important to lowering tax burden and those deductions are the ones most likely to be hit if any are (and if they aren't then the country will be running gigantic deficits no matter what spending we cut).

In regards to overseas profits, this plan basically removes any taxation on them due to 15% being lower than the corporate income tax in basically any major country, so there will be no difference owed the U.S. government. All taxes may be collected immediately, but that's really easy when they don't exist.

So yeah, this is standard right wing help big business and help the rich tax policy with a very thin veneer of helping the less well off.

 

[Earthstrike]

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

No it isn't. He was explaining to you that you were actually wrong about the origin of governmental money. The government prints it's own money. Taxation is just a mechanism which destroy's a certain amount of currency in circulation such that it's distribution changes and we don't have inflation.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Cheap populism that would never get actually done since the country would straight up go bankrupt.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

This doesn't sound too bad. I wonder if it's progressive as it is now, i.e. if you make 30K you'd pay 500 bucks in federal income tax (10% of 5K). I currently pay a shitload of taxes as I'm single, no kids/dependents, make more than the average person, have extra income from rental property and dividends, etc. How would this effect me? For the sake of argument and for the sake of simplicity, let's say I make 100k/year from all my different sources of income.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Some of this sounds like a kids E3 wish list.

We did get Shenmue III, TLG, and FFVII Remake announced this year...

 

[reckless]

Well at least its not a flat/fair tax...

It's not that bad for a Republican plan.

 

[zychi]

It looks good, but its never ever going to pass in Congress. Have to get rid of lobbying before this can go through.

First sane thing I've seen Trump do in years.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

We don't need fewer tax brackets, we need more.

 

[gamechanger87]

Politicos estimate is that this plan will cost 2-3 trillion after taking into account his new taxes. The Rubio and Lee plan will cost significantly less. I believe they are proposing 15 percent for less than 75k and 35 percent for all above that.

His plan is complete shit. There aren't enough loopholes to clean up this stuff

For people always harping on carried interest tax it's such a minor amount that it will never move the needle. 15 billion over 10 years.

 

[Fenderputty]

So your actual solution is just to print more money?

This thread is delightfully entertaining.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/modern-monetary-theory-primer.html

 

[Mad Season]

This would make my job at H&R Block almost disappear.

I guess Trump would like that though.

No offense but needing a huge organization like h&r is precisely the point as to why taxes are out of hand

 

[hydrophilic attack]

This would make my job at H&R Block almost disappear.

I guess Trump would like that though.

Obliterating parasites is a correct course of action

 

[old]

No thanks. I'd rather pay higher taxes and have more social benefits.

 

[Marty Chinn]

No thanks. I'd rather pay higher taxes and have more social benefits.

Now think about how someone feels who has to pay higher taxes, doesn't make a lot of money, but makes too much money to take advantage of those social benefits. How do you think they feel about paying higher taxes while trying to support a family?

 

[old]

Now think about how someone feels who has to pay higher taxes, doesn't make a lot of money, but makes too much money to take advantage of those social benefits. How do you think they feel about paying higher taxes while trying to support a family?

With better funded social benefits everybody qualifies for them, not just the poorest. So they'd think, "nice, now I don't have to worry about medical bankruptcy or my kids drowning in crippling student loan debt."

 

[Red]

Cutting taxes for the poor is good, but those proposed taxes for the rich should be much higher. Estate taxes need to become more stringent, not less. This plan seems designed to appeal (no taxes for the poor!) while slipping in benefits for those who already have money. It is status quo. If Trump's "make America great again" campaign hopes to aspire at the American Dream, he needs to promise an even playing field. He needs to close the wealth gap, not simply let a few spare hundreds fall into the pockets of the abjectly poor.

This is a cola laced with strychnine.

 

[Marty Chinn]

With better funded social benefits everybody qualifies for them, not just the poorest. So they'd think, "nice, now I don't have to worry about medical bankruptcy or my kids drowning in crippling student loan debt."

So everyone also gets things like food programs and housing benefits too?

 

[davepoobond]

You're doing your taxes wrong.

$85k income.

$12.4k standard deduction.

4 personal exemptions at $3950 each ~= $16k.

$85k - $12.4k - $16k = $58k.

Taxes are $6,872.50 plus 25% of the amount over $50,200 = approximately $2k more = approximately $9k total.

That's about 10% of your gross income.

I left out the child tax credit, the child care credit, and any other credits you might be able to claim.

l2file noob

Yeah how is that guy paying 20k in taxes with what you just said??

Do people not take the credits or something?

 

[adj_noun]

No family will have to pay the death tax.

Happy birthday, Ivanka.

 

[Inuhanyou]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/29/u...ut-for-the-rich-even-hedge-fund-managers.html

Yeah, this is a terrible plan.

He's in favor of everyone getting lower taxes including cutting the already low tax rate of 39% to 25%. That's no way to deal with the deficit and doesn't actually fix anything besides wasting everyone's time with less money to spend on actual things we need.

 

[HK-47]

This feels like unrealistic bullshit.

 

[kess]

Cutting taxes for the poor is good, but those proposed taxes for the rich should be much higher. Estate taxes need to become more stringent, not less. This plan seems designed to appeal (no taxes for the poor!) while slipping in benefits for those who already have money. It is status quo. If Trump's "make America great again" campaign hopes to aspire at the American Dream, he needs to promise an even playing field. He needs to close the wealth gap, not simply let a few spare hundreds fall into the pockets of the abjectly poor.

It's a lot easier to propose a tax holiday to desperate people when there's more poor people than ever. If the field was even, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. This is the intended consequence of 40 years of trickle down economics.

 

[Kwixotik]

Sounds alright, but his "fuck them all to death" foreign policy is still a bit of a dealbreaker

 

[kirblar]

The government can still give money to people. Just let them do it directly instead of indirectly through taxes.

Want to give a $ amount to everybody under a certain income? Just cut them a check.
Want to give a $ amount to those who own a home or invest in solar panels? Cut them a check.

People can apply and submit proving documentation directly to the program they need funds from.

Taxes can be kept simple. xx% taken out of your check.
Government can predict tax revenue as a % of real wages.

Flat taxes are absurdly regressive.

Payroll tax needs to be made progressive.

 

[NickFire]

Step 3: I have these magic beans that the guy I traded our more sensible Corporate Tax Code too said would grow the economy. All we have to do is plant them and wait for the money to trickle down the beanstalk.

Its really encouraging when liberal people just out of school equate a successful businessman / republican's fiscal policy with magic beans. Only a few short years ago you probably thought adding millions of people to the public insurer's roles would reduce the financial strain on most middle income families. But nope, no fooling you twice!

 

[Red]

It's a lot easier to propose a tax holiday to desperate people when there's more poor people than ever. If the field was even, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. This is the intended consequence of 40 years of trickle down economics.

It's horrifying to imagine we're now in an environment where the mere offer of a few hundred dollars in exchange for a maintained status quo is considered acceptable for a presidential candidate to run on. This is the kind of thing that should be immediately laughed to the shit bin.

It's a disgusting, condescending proposal and any self-respecting citizen should be offended that Trump had offered it seriously.

 

[Fitts]

Good guy Trump.

Sounds alright, but his "fuck them all to death" foreign policy is still a bit of a dealbreaker

Fuck them, I got mine.

Spoiler

(just trolling the Bernie zealots)

 

[wildfire]

Happy birthday, Ivanka.

He also has a son

 

[Inuhanyou]

Fuck them, I got mine.

Spoiler

(just trolling the Bernie zealots)

You don't know Bernie Sanders foreign policy.

 

[Valhelm]

Sounds... liberal?

He has to be a Hillary puppet, right?

Donald Trump is a really, really interesting candidate. None of his policies are that conservative -- even on immigration, Jeb Bush is further to the right . He's actually managed to sell moderate liberal policies to reactionary voters, something most other Republicans could never accomplish.

A little bit of racist rhetoric can go a long way.

 

[Kwixotik]

Donald Trump is a really, really interesting candidate. None of his policies are that conservative -- even on immigration, Jeb Bush is further to the right . He's actually managed to sell moderate liberal policies to reactionary voters, something most other Republicans could never accomplish.

A little bit of racist rhetoric can go a long way.

That's because reactionary voters don't care about policies

 

[ponpo]

Anyone watching him on CNN right now?

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Surprisingly not the worst tax solution I've ever heard.

Still, for me the big worldwide issue regarding taxes is the $21 trillion hidden off-shore by the super rich, and the amount that is further extracted from countries worldwide every year to add to that, often without being taxed. This money is no longer beneficial to society, it just sits there. It's not being spent and taxed, just hoarded. It needs to be found and taxed. These loopholes CAN be closed, given the political will.

To quote Forbes: If all the $21 trillion that has been offshored earned 3% a year and that was taxed at 30%, it would raise $188 billion in revenues, more than rich countries spend on aid to the developing world every year.

Instead, it just benefits the rich, and frankly given the money they already have it doesn't benefit them at all - it makes no difference to their lives. That's what makes me really sick. Trusts were a good idea with proper uses but the abuse of them and other related entities is completely out of control.

I'm also quite ashamed of the way the Irish government has manipulated our tax code to allow companies to vastly reduce their tax liabilities with the classic 'Double Irish'. It has long been essentially a tacit agreement between the Irish Government and multinationals to fuck their home countries out of owed tax revenue in return for doing business in Ireland, but it doesn't benefit Ireland anything as much as it should considering what the companies get out of it. Thank god it looks like that scheme may end, but it took forever. Some new country will now simply copy Ireland and the cycle will continue. It has to be stopped.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent.

The plan seems pretty bad because I've read it's even more disproportionate benefits to wealthy vs. Jeb! And the problem with that is it won't meet the 6% growth stuff. Barack is seeing inflation-adjusted growth of 2.5% in his best year so far. So, I'll take anything pro-growth whether its a tax cut or increase in spending at this point. At least Trump isn't dumb enough to propose tax increases and spending cuts net to shrink the economy, but I'm disappointed Trump is peddling failed mainstream conservative silliness that won't deliver. Try a different approach with taxes or put a much bigger focus on some good bang for buck spending.

Also we probably don't need to "find" money. Virtually all of the $21 Trillion US assets are presumably in bank accounts with a tie to the Federal Reserve System because most money isn't physical. US regulators likely know where it is and do nothing about it. I actually was reviewing a roundtable last year with bankers who wanted to talk about how terrorists were getting US dollars. Of course I rolled my eyes and pointed them to a recent Bank of England paper about money creation.