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[seb85]

New shell company is wholly owned by current Ubisoft, my man.

Did you even read the articles ? 25% owned by tencent and the rest by the Guillemont , Ubisoft will not have any business decision over the company for 2 years

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I’ve been saying for months even Assassins being successful won’t save this company their overheads are insane.

This should have some legal repercussions, yes they control ownership over these different entities but at the bottom of it they’re selling a large part of those entities off. Those assets are Ubisofts only value and they know it.

Giving Tencent a much larger slice of those companies without buying Ubisofts dead stock and devaluing it further in my opinion. I believe the only reason they’re doing this is to eventually spin off assets for further cash injections.

We’re ‘just’ selling Farcry, Ubisoft its self isn’t changing! Etc.. or the back catalogue.

I'm amazed this is even legal. Ubisoft's shareholders should be fuming.

 

[Fafalada]

I'll only believe developing an AC game costs 500 mil when I see it.

AC2 cost around 100M (and made 800).
5x increase in 15 years wouldn't be surprising at all.

And if it does cost that much, whomever is making those decisions needs a restraining order, apart from the pretty graphics literally nothing else about these games justifies such a high cost.

That's true for most All AAA productions though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm amazed this is even legal. Ubisoft's shareholders should be fuming.

I don't think Ubisoft shareholders have any rights, after all Ubisoft is a French company

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

@Black_Stride how you doing?

Didn't even manage to last a year longer than the date of our discussion.

Fantastic drugs by the way.

Impressive amount of spite holding onto this for a year.

 

[adamsapple]

Edit:
I told you! I told you not to judge too early.

Do you think this deal was made in the last week?

Edit: I see multiple other users have also said something similar already, lol.

 

[GHG]

Impressive amount of spite holding onto this for a year.

 

[Heisenberg007]

It means this the subsidiary will be managed by completely new executives , and Ubisoft will not have any business decision over these titles , the new subsidiary will have the right to do whatever they want with these titles which mean you might get a better games

It is still 75% owned by Ubisoft, right?

That was the basis of my question. Currently, Ubisoft owns the majority of Ubisoft, with Tencent being a minority stakeholder. Now, Ubisoft will own the majority of this new subsidiary, with Tencent being a minority stakeholder.

I don't see how that will change anything for anyone. The only possible explanation for all this strategy might be (1) to shut up the dissenting voices among big Ubisoft shareholders, and (2) to get the $1B+ cash injection to keep things afloat for a while longer.

 

[seb85]

It is still 75% owned by Ubisoft, right?

That was the basis of my question. Currently, Ubisoft owns the majority of Ubisoft, with Tencent being a minority stakeholder. Now, Ubisoft will own the majority of this new subsidiary, with Tencent being a minority stakeholder.

I don't see how that will change anything for anyone. The only possible explanation for all this strategy might be (1) to shut up the dissenting voices among big Ubisoft shareholders, and (2) to get the $1B+ cash injection to keep things afloat for a while longer.

The contract is stating that Ubisoft will not have any business decision over the subsidiary for 2 years , second it open up for other investors to own share in the company like microsoft ,Sony etc so there is a chance that Ubisoft may not hold the majority of share in this subsidiary company in the future
The whole point is that this company will be completely managed by new people from tencent and this could mean producing better games.

 

[simpatico]

When the degenerate gambler takes giant loans against his house it always ends well.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Chud Boys win again, fucken high five lads oi oi lol

 

[RagnarokIV]

@Black_Stride how you doing?

Didn't even manage to last a year longer than the date of our discussion.

Fantastic drugs by the way.

LMAO Fucken brilliant.

Fuck ubisoft btw. They ruined Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six for the proper original fans. One they let die in the gutter and the other became a barely recognizable gen z shithole. Siege is so far from R6 it'd be like swapping out me bird mid shag for me nan (who's been dead a decade) and passing it off as the same person

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

The first time I'm rooting for Tencent to completely devour and destroy something.

 

[GateofD]

IB at least 25% of ubisoft employees are fired.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The first time I'm rooting for Tencent to completely devour and destroy something.

They are going to go Argent Energy on Ubisoft's asses

In all seriousness, if it's true that Tencent will take over all business decisions for 2 years, there's gonna be some massive layoffs coming. This is just cover for the Guillemots who don't want to be blamed, instead they'll let China take all the blame while they clean the place out

 

[PaintTinJr]

How does this work out for Ubisoft shareholders if Ubisoft goes bust after this is implemented?

Would shareholders in Ubisoft get a transfer of shares to the portion of the subsidiary that Ubisoft owned, or would they be out of luck? And in that scenario does the subsidiary go bust too, or become its own company?

Can't help but feel like this is a means by which shareholder value is being illegally removed from the smaller Ubisoft shareholders without the same balance and checks that would be required for a company buyout, and if so surprised the CMA wouldn't wade into this because of the lack oversight.

 

[yurinka]

Tencent owns like 32% of the new carve out, so not control, but far more influence than before.

They have control over Ubisoft, which is the minory shareholder in the new holding which owns the important IP.
They wont have any control over those IP as Tencent is now majority shareholder in the new company.

Way I understand it.

Soft Takeover.
Eliminates the family owning issue.

No, Tencent bought 25% of the subsidiary. Ubisoft has the other 75% and full control of the subsidiary. The Guillemot Brothers control Ubisoft, so also control the subsidiary.

So Shadows didn't save them. I figured they'd sell off the weaker stuff not their stronger brands.

They didn't need to be saved because have a good record revenue in a growing trend for over a decade plus are profitable, and Shadows had their 2nd best launch ever.

How does this work out for Ubisoft shareholders if Ubisoft goes bust after this is implemented?

Would shareholders in Ubisoft get a transfer of shares to the portion of the subsidiary that Ubisoft owned, or would they be out of luck? And in that scenario does the subsidiary go bust too, or become its own company?

Can't help but feel like this is a means by which shareholder value is being illegally removed from the smaller Ubisoft shareholders without the same balance and checks that would be required for a company buyout, and if so surprised the CMA wouldn't wade into this because of the lack oversight.

The minority stakeholders have been artificially taking down Ubisoft's stock value, keeping the company value totally artificially undervaluated when looking at their IPs and performance in revenue and profit during the last decade or two.

By making this subsidiary they made their most important IPs (the 3 top grossing ones as of now, plus their related games and studios) private and will only sell minorities of that subisidiaries to whoever Ubisoft wants. By grouping their other IPs and teams in 3 or 4 similar multi billion subsidiaries that they could also raise more investment from only the people they want, who would be allowed to specifically invest only in that portion of Ubisoft.

These new subsidiaries would be valuated properly, seriously and realistically, not with the artificial value that the company has in the stock market.

And later, having these subsidiaries it would be easier to sell to them a privately owned (by the Guillemots, and a part of it Tencent) company to get rid of the stock market trolls. They could also sell one of these subsidiaries to somebody else, as could be MS, Sony, Savvy, Tencent, EA, etc. Or -more likely- to sell them only a small minority stake.

So they've taken a company worth $2bn and arranged it into a subsidiary worth ~$4bn and 'the remainder' worth, presumably, minus $2bn. Cool.

Tencent injects ~$1bn (to keep the lights on) for a 25% stake in the subsidiary, and the subsidiary pays a royalty to 'the remainder' to use the IP.

Yes, Ubisoft and Tencent wanted to invest another >1B Tencent on Ubisoft, but they knew Ubisoft's stock market value is stupidly undervaluated, because a company that makes 2B per year and has a ton of valuable IPs and studios can't valued 2B. Doesn't make sense at all.

Instead of giving half of the Ubisoft, for that price they gave them 25% of a new subsidiary with their top 3 IPs. Which already is a great deal, Tencent bought at a very good price, because to value AC+FC+R6 plus the games and studios at $4B is also a joke, pretty under their real value. They valated like that to give them a good price and to in later years say 'hey this performed very well so we increase its valuation' when offering to sell a small stake of the subsidiary to another investor they are confident with.

The 'to keep the lights on' is totally stupid and nonsensical.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

No, Tencent bought 25% of the subsidiary. Ubisoft has the other 75% and full control of the subsidiary.

Tencent owns 10% of Ubisoft…

 

[Fake]

Will be a matter of time until Tencent get all. Can't say I'm surprise, but I do hope their games gets better. I used to like AC and Farcry.

 

[Kacho]

It is time

 

[SentientStone]

Dunno what’s what, just give me what I have always wanted: Assassin’s Creed Ancient China…

…that includes some pseudo history about how the Creed helped the CCP win the civil war and then end with a screen that reminds us that Taiwan is a province of China and the One China policy reigns supreme.

 

[yurinka]

Tencent owns 10% of Ubisoft…

Yes, and this is the reason of why Tencent can't force Ubisoft to do anything. As they said when they bought that, they don't want and don't plan to affect Ubisoft's management.

They support the Guillemot family management, to the point that separatedly Tencent gave them separatedly money to their family company to help them buy more Ubisoft stocks and secure the control of the company.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Can't wait for the journalist cope. Why would they need to do this with such a massive success like Shadows being just released?

With article after article about new player numbers being reached, such and such milestone being hit, record release on platform X, best in the series at Y.

It's almost as if the hail Mary that was Shadows didn't land.

 

[calico]

How does this work out for Ubisoft shareholders if Ubisoft goes bust after this is implemented?

Would shareholders in Ubisoft get a transfer of shares to the portion of the subsidiary that Ubisoft owned, or would they be out of luck? And in that scenario does the subsidiary go bust too, or become its own company?

Can't help but feel like this is a means by which shareholder value is being illegally removed from the smaller Ubisoft shareholders without the same balance and checks that would be required for a company buyout, and if so surprised the CMA wouldn't wade into this because of the lack oversight.

I think the shareholders would be pretty screwed in that scenario and the 75% of the subsidiary owned by Ubisoft would be sold off to pay Ubisoft's creditors (maybe the Ubisoft shareholders would get a payout if there was anything left after paying the creditors?)

If eg. Microsoft bought that 75% previously owned by Ubisoft, then the subsidiary would become a subsidiary of Microsoft.

I'm no expert though.

 

[PeteBull]

BREAKING NEWS:

Black Flag Remake will now feature legendary pirate Zheng Yi Sao as its protagonist.

 

[bender]

 

[calico]

a company that makes 2B per year

It doesn't make $2bn per year, it makes nothing per year, which is why they need the money.

 

[Kenpachii]

Wonder what's going to happen to anno ip.

 

[PeteBull]

It doesn't make $2bn per year, it makes nothing per year, which is why they need the money.

Yups, keeping those thousands of DEI hires who fuck up studio's games by making them more woke aka worse is costly af, some studios are stationed in poor countries, but those guys are just bottom-dwelling devs with no real say on how the games gonna look/play, plenty woke parasites stationed in expensive areas tho, and they make 6figures yearly, in usd, not in canadian dollars that are worth close to nothing nowadays (thx trudoe .

Gaming company is for profit organisation, aka it has to make profit, not just revenue, or it will sooner or later go bankrupt/get taken over/sold out, and guess what- gaming market is one of most vicious and competetive spaces out there, there is no room for continuos mistakes, even for a giant like ubi

 

[R6Rider]

BREAKING NEWS:

Black Flag Remake will now feature legendary pirate Zheng Yi Sao as its protagonist.

You son of a bitch. You sent me down a wikipedia rabbit hole on pirates.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

So Shadows didn't save them. I figured they'd sell off the weaker stuff not their stronger brands.

Yall really think these deals are made in a week lmao

 

[Wilhelm_85]

Certainly didn't expect this to come so soon. Crazy times... I hope they are able to figure out how to handle these series in the future.

 

[Lethal01]

It's almost as if the hail Mary that was Shadows didn't land.

Shadows doing well does not mean it'ss doing good enoughto save their buisiness.
The game can be great but even its being their best selling AC ever would probably not being enough.

 

[tr1p1ex]

How does this work out for Ubisoft shareholders if Ubisoft goes bust after this is implemented?

Would shareholders in Ubisoft get a transfer of shares to the portion of the subsidiary that Ubisoft owned, or would they be out of luck? And in that scenario does the subsidiary go bust too, or become its own company?

Can't help but feel like this is a means by which shareholder value is being illegally removed from the smaller Ubisoft shareholders without the same balance and checks that would be required for a company buyout, and if so surprised the CMA wouldn't wade into this because of the lack oversight.

Ubi owns 75% of the subsidiary from the sound of it.

The move sounds like it is being done to unlock value and get Tencent to put more money into it to right the ship. Tencent didn't want to do that as it was setup because it wasn't working great.

Without this move...it's worse. They don't get that extra funding.

So from the little I read about it so far it's a big plus. Although also dilutive. The market for the ADR shares (shares traded on the american exchanges) finished 12% higher on the news during the day. Not that that means anything in the longer run.

 

[GHG]

No, Tencent bought 25% of the subsidiary. Ubisoft has the other 75% and full control of the subsidiary. The Guillemot Brothers control Ubisoft, so also control the subsidiary.


They didn't need to be saved because have a good record revenue in a growing trend for over a decade plus are profitable, and Shadows had their 2nd best launch ever.


The minority stakeholders have been artificially taking down Ubisoft's stock value, keeping the company value totally artificially undervaluated when looking at their IPs and performance in revenue and profit during the last decade or two.

By making this subsidiary they made their most important IPs (the 3 top grossing ones as of now, plus their related games and studios) private and will only sell minorities of that subisidiaries to whoever Ubisoft wants. By grouping their other IPs and teams in 3 or 4 similar multi billion subsidiaries that they could also raise more investment from only the people they want, who would be allowed to specifically invest only in that portion of Ubisoft.

These new subsidiaries would be valuated properly, seriously and realistically, not with the artificial value that the company has in the stock market.

And later, having these subsidiaries it would be easier to sell to them a privately owned (by the Guillemots, and a part of it Tencent) company to get rid of the stock market trolls. They could also sell one of these subsidiaries to somebody else, as could be MS, Sony, Savvy, Tencent, EA, etc. Or -more likely- to sell them only a small minority stake.


Yes, Ubisoft and Tencent wanted to invest another >1B Tencent on Ubisoft, but they knew Ubisoft's stock market value is stupidly undervaluated, because a company that makes 2B per year and has a ton of valuable IPs and studios can't valued 2B. Doesn't make sense at all.

Instead of giving half of the Ubisoft, for that price they gave them 25% of a new subsidiary with their top 3 IPs. Which already is a great deal, Tencent bought at a very good price, because to value AC+FC+R6 plus the games and studios at $4B is also a joke, pretty under their real value. They valated like that to give them a good price and to in later years say 'hey this performed very well so we increase its valuation' when offering to sell a small stake of the subsidiary to another investor they are confident with.

The 'to keep the lights on' is totally stupid and nonsensical.

All this cope to still be wrong.

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

All this cope to still be wrong.

This guy has been melting down spewing insanity about shit he doesn’t understand all day. It’s funny but I’m legit concerned about him.

 

[yurinka]

All this cope to still be wrong.

Yep, it's a joke.

As I said they aren't cooked, they got another investment of over a billion and had their second best AC launch.

It doesn't make $2bn per year, it makes nothing per year, which is why they need the money.

Yes, they do 2B/year

This guy has been melting down spewing insanity about shit he doesn’t understand all day. It’s funny but I’m legit concerned about him.

In your dreams

 

[GHG]

This guy has been melting down spewing insanity about shit he doesn’t understand all day. It’s funny but I’m legit concerned about him.

What's funny is that anyone can literally read the financial statement from their last quarter (in fact, pick any financial statement from the last 2-3 years) and you can see that they are operating at a loss, growing debt and have negative EBITDA (which has also become increasingly negative quarter over quarter). They've been teetering on the edge for a while now and insolvency risk has been real.

But some of these guys have been too up in their feelings to understand the raw numbers staring them in the face.

What's even worse is the fact that they have been aggressively diluting their shareholders, yet some people are leaping in to the fire and buying their shares. Unbelievable really.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Can't hold these rare incel victories.

 

[GHG]

Yep, it's a joke.

As I said they aren't cooked, they got another investment of over a billion and had their second best AC launch.

Jokes on you.

They are no longer around in the same capacity that they were at the time I wrote that, and we haven't even needed to wait until the end of the generation.

What does negative EBITDA of -158.8M mean to you? Do you even understand what that means and how dire it is? These clowns can't even cover their current liabilities and yet you're running defence for them? They couldn't even afford pay you even if they wanted to.

 

[Lokaum D+]

no more black char on Ubisoft games, Tencent wont allow it

 

[Griffon]

This smells like some epic corporate swindle. The Guillemots will try anything to keep control.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

no more black char on Ubisoft games, Tencent wont allow it

To be fair, if we use the world average then a little under 2 people out of 10 are black.

United States is just unusual in their national ratio due to deliberate forced population movements.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I'm just scared for Splinter Cell. I've been waiting so long for another game. If we have to presume that they might try to sell their other IP's to focus on the big 3, I hope they can get the remake out before it's sold.

BRING BACK SAM FISHER!

 

[SHAKEZ]

Goodbye Anno Pax Romana, I hardly knew ye.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sounds like Tencent only bought them some time. If they don’t change they’ll just get devoured slowly.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So if I'm reading this right, they are splintering off (no pun intended) some franchises into a subsidiary where the market value is $4B US, when right now UBI stock is about $1.8B value.

Though Tencent owns a chunk of that $4B, it's still worth way more than existing UBI stock.

I guess it's one of those addition by subtraction kind of transactions. Split off the good parts into it's own silo and overall value of the parts is now worth more than combined.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They keep losing yet still refuse to see reality. But hey, Elon got ratioed, so that has to count for something

 

[Antwix]

They keep losing yet still refuse to see reality. But hey, Elon got ratioed, so that has to count for something

I guess Ubi can't ratio the investors though

 

[Saber]

Probably for the best.
Maybe with a proper management and clean up, Ubisoft can rise again. In the meantime, hopefully a drastically reform is in order.