Support NeoGAF

[jeff_rigby]

He explicitly said the Xbox One. You're talking about the PS4. The Xbox One and PS4 are different devices. This is why they have different names to help distinguish them as such.

Gee, I took the trouble to find where he got that compliance report and a few lines down the PS4 is listed. No curiosity to see if the PS4 is listed as HD or UHD? Or just stating the XB1 is listed as HD to jerk my chain?

Does the PS4 Compliance report from Sony stating it is UHD capable mean anything to you? Do you really believe the XB1 is HD and the PS4 is UHD?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Jeff, is our bet on or not? You've not spoke of it since I responded to your query regarding a further $100 bet for the X1. If you'd rather not accept the bet, just, well, ignore this post, too, I suppose.

You still want to bet, if so YES? I take it that you believe they are UHD capable but won't support UHD Blu-ray. Adam doesn't even believe they are UHD Capable so I'd really rather bet Adam.

 

[SwordStruck]

Here is where you found the compliance reports and the PS4 reports clearly say UHD capable. You didn't look at them? Are you trolling?

Am I trolling? I didn't say anything about the PS4 in my post.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Adam doesn't even believe they are UHD Capable

I never said that. Stacey Spears' quotes about Microsoft working on (though abandoning) a Netflix UHD implementation certainly indicates that it's in the realm of possibility.

I don't believe that "technically conceivable" is the same thing as "certainty", I don't believe in passing off speculation as fact, I don't believe the EU power consumption documents indicate what you think they do, I don't believe many of the other conclusions you've drawn are well-founded, and, based on the overwhelming and unanimous evidence, I don't believe there will be an Ultra HD Blu-ray firmware update for the launch consoles.

 

[Gamezone]

AMD's Carrizo APU and Polaris dGPU are the least expensive way to get UHD media support with Windows 10. The Polaris dGPU has a UVD with HEVC support, same as Carrizo and the XB1 and PS4 Launch game consoles are UHD capable with firmware update. I believe the Game consoles are waiting till PCs can support UHD with Carrizo and Polaris before they get their firmware updates. Polaris just launched.

The Next Windows 10 update is August 2 and the XB1 slim is shipping in August. The XB1 Launch may get it's firmware update then so you may not have to wait for October. The PS4 will probably wait till October as in the past they have never released a open source feature till it's "official". Sony is writing a UHD Blu-ray application for the PC and has a licence for a PC UHD drive.

AMD stated they use the same hardware for HEVC that the XB1 uses. Polaris has a UVD and VCE as does Carrizo. Do they have a VCE that supports HEVC for HD encode too? An ARM block that can now use GDDR5 too?

Microsoft is totally misleading people with the Xbox One Slim if they plan to release such firmware update.

 

[LordofPwn]

The PS4 can output at UHD resolution with the play memories app, as far as i can tell Xbox one does not have anything that will output at that resolution right now. i could be wrong though.

the launch consoles will not be getting UHD Blu-ray support even if it is theoretically possible for them to somehow implement it.

I still think the biggest barrier is the latest version of HDCP, i think theres some TV's that can upgrade to it via firmware, but from my research it appears that there would need to be a hardware foresight for that to work and when the consoles were first being made they would not have known what they would need to do to make that a possibility.

i mean the PS4 doesn't even read CDs...
CDs...

 

[JaseC]

You still want to bet, if so YES? I take it that you believe they are UHD capable but won't support UHD Blu-ray. Adam doesn't even believe they are UHD Capable so I'd really rather bet Adam.

The bet is as outlined in my earlier post -- terms that are more generous than those earlier discussed and later proposed by yourself (AUD$100 across both consoles is a lower risk than USD$100 + USD$100). Please accept or decline. Allow me to remind you that it is not my intention to pressure you into accepting; I'd much rather you go with your gut than a decision based on public perception. In fewer words, I just want a straight answer. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[CosmicQueso]

The bet is as outlined in my earlier post -- terms that are more generous than those you proposed. Please accept or decline.

You should at least give the poor guy odds.

 

[JaseC]

You should at least give the poor guy odds.

Well, I proposed the bet because the premise of this thread is that both consoles will be updated to support UHD BDs before the end of the year, and in addition to his responses to counter-arguments generally being laced with condescension (whether that be aimed towards the posters or the sources themselves), he also claims to have betted on his past predictions to the tune of earning thousands of dollars, which suggests to me that an AUD$100 bet isn't going to break the bank. I suggested only one console being updated being cause for a tie precisely because I didn't want to be unreasonable.

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I myself am not interested in the AUD$100. This being a gaming forum, I'd rather the money go towards Child's Play instead, regardless of which hand the donation is to come from. Again, though, I'd much rather Jeff decline the bet if he is no longer as certain as he once was -- I, for one, would not think any less of him for refusing to put money on something that has a shakier foundation than first thought. But that's just the thing -- throughout this thread he has refused to entertain the idea that he might be wrong. Hence the idea of a bet. Should he accept, then we can reasonably assume he remains certain of the thread's premise, but in lieu of that I would ask that he posts an update that clearly and categorically delineates just what his position is in light of the information that has come to pass throughout the past several weeks.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Well, I proposed the bet because the premise of this thread is that both consoles will be updated to support UHD BDs before the end of the year, and in addition to his responses to counter-arguments generally being laced with condescension (whether that be aimed towards the posters or the sources themselves), he also claims to have betted on his past predictions to the tune of earning thousands of dollars, which suggests to me that an AUD$100 bet isn't going to break the bank. I suggested only one console being updated being cause for a tie precisely because I didn't want to be unreasonable.

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I myself am not interested in the AUD$100. This being a gaming forum, I'd rather the money go towards Child's Play instead, regardless of which hand the donation is to come from. Again, though, I'd much rather Jeff decline the bet if he is no longer as certain as he once was -- I, for one, would not think any less of him for refusing to put money on something that has a shakier foundation than first thought. But that's just the thing -- throughout this thread he has refused to entertain the idea that he might be wrong. Hence the idea of a bet. Should he accept, then we can reasonably assume he remains certain of the thread's premise, but in lieu of that I would ask that he posts an update that clearly and categorically delineates just what his position is in light of the information that has come to pass throughout the past several weeks.

Sorry if I was unclear. I was asking if you still want to bet in light of the information that has come across this thread in the last two weeks confirming in no uncertain terms that the PS4 and XB1 are UHD capable which is two thirds of the way to UHD Blu-ray.

JaseC, For two years in October I have been researching what it takes to support UHD Capable and UHD blu-ray. Early speculation has been confirmed and the only thing left is the blu-ray drive able to be firmware updated. No licence is required for a Game Console drive which indicates the platform owner is responsible not the drive manufacturer and Sony made the daughter board for the PS4 blu-ray drive.

Sony has a UHD licence for every platform including PCs which indicates their intent to fully support UHD Blu-ray. The XB1 and PS4 are UHD capable from launch on which indicates a great amount of effort to become UHD capable. 40 million PS4s and millions of XB1 consoles as UHD Blu-ray players will change the dynamics of UHD blu--ray just as the PS3 did as a blu-ray player.

Sony set the standard for version 2 disks in 2010 and considering the effort they went to to support UHD, we are expected to believe they wouldn't go to the same effort for UHD blu-ray?


I'll take that bet! For me donate to the Shriners crippled children fund in my name. Wash if only one platform gets UHD blu-ray support, I win if they both do and you win if both don't.

 

[Gamezone]

Sorry if I was unclear. I was asking if you still want to bet in light of the information that has come across this thread in the last two weeks confirming in no uncertain terms that the PS4 and XB1 are UHD capable which is two thirds of the way to UHD Blu-ray.

JaseC, For two years in October I have been researching what it takes to support UHD Capable and UHD blu-ray. Early speculation has been confirmed and the only thing left is the blu-ray drive able to be firmware updated. No licence is required for a Game Console drive which indicates the platform owner is responsible not the drive manufacturer and Sony made the daughter board for the PS4 blu-ray drive.

Sony has a UHD licence for every platform including PCs which indicates their intent to fully support UHD Blu-ray. The XB1 and PS4 are UHD capable from launch on which indicates a great amount of effort to become UHD capable. 40 million PS4s and millions of XB1 consoles as UHD Blu-ray players will change the dynamics of UHD blu--ray just as the PS3 did as a blu-ray player.

Sony set the standard for version 2 disks in 2010 and considering the effort they went to to support UHD, we are expected to believe they wouldn't go to the same effort for UHD blu-ray?


I'll take that bet! For me donate to the Shriners crippled children fund in my name. Wash if only one platform gets UHD blu-ray support, I win if they both do and you win if both don't.

Even if it`s only one console, this should be a pretty safe bet for JaseC.

 

[JaseC]

I'll take that bet!

Cool beans. Thanks for giving a firm answer.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Letter to [email protected];


Saw your name on the EU Compliance report which confirms the 2013 and 2015 PS4 is UHD Capable. Secret is out and I assume a NDA satisfied.

I have some questions if you can answer them.

1) What is UHD Capable
2) Does this mean UHD Blu-ray is coming with a firmware update
3) When is the update, October 13th 2016?
4) Firmware 4.0 so that PS4 + Firmware 4 = 4+ 4 = 8 which is a lucky number in China and auspicious in Japan.
5) PS3 Firmware 5.0 (3 + 5 =8) for the same reason?
6) Vidipath and ooVoo coming with the same update?
7) PS3 apps to all be replaced?
8) Does the PS4 APU have a VCE3 HEVC hardware codec like the XB1? (Leaked in a slide by AMD)
9) Is Sony writing the UHD BLu-ray player for the XB1? Microsoft DOES NOT have a BDA license for anything.
10) After the PS4 firmware update and after Netflix updates their app, will the PS4 GPU be turned off with full screen video?
11) 2013 PS4 to support UHD BLu-ray digital bridge (Vidipath Server with Playready ND) or is a later more powerful PS4 (Southbridge) to support this?

These questions and their answers should be leaked prior to the update so that news articles can educate the public. The 3 year delay to update is going to create an outcry. The reason for the delay should be part of the announcement.


Thanks in advance

jeff_rigby

 

[Graphics Horse]

Hmm

 

[MaLDo]

Letter to [email protected];


Saw your name on the EU Compliance report which confirms the 2013 and 2015 PS4 is UHD Capable. Secret is out and I assume a NDA satisfied.

I have some questions if you can answer them.

4) Firmware 4.0 so that PS4 + Firmware 4 = 4+ 4 = 8 which is a lucky number in China and auspicious in Japan.
5) PS3 Firmware 5.0 (3 + 5 =8) for the same reason?

 

[sammyCYBORG]

I shouldn't find whatever mental affliction Jeff has so entertaining, but damn I do. What a nutter.

 

[eFKac]

Indeed.

Jesus, why Jeff?

Now he'll think you're just pulling his leg or you're a looney with walls plastered with equations ending in the number 8.

 

[Mendrox]

I love this crazy thread. The bet is on...

 

[playXray]

Letter to [email protected];


Saw your name on the EU Compliance report which confirms the 2013 and 2015 PS4 is UHD Capable. Secret is out and I assume a NDA satisfied.

I have some questions if you can answer them.

1) What is UHD Capable
2) Does this mean UHD Blu-ray is coming with a firmware update
3) When is the update, October 13th 2016?
4) Firmware 4.0 so that PS4 + Firmware 4 = 4+ 4 = 8 which is a lucky number in China and auspicious in Japan.
5) PS3 Firmware 5.0 (3 + 5 =8) for the same reason?
6) Vidipath and ooVoo coming with the same update?
7) PS3 apps to all be replaced?
8) Does the PS4 APU have a VCE3 HEVC hardware codec like the XB1? (Leaked in a slide by AMD)
9) Is Sony writing the UHD BLu-ray player for the XB1? Microsoft DOES NOT have a BDA license for anything.
10) After the PS4 firmware update and after Netflix updates their app, will the PS4 GPU be turned off with full screen video?
11) 2013 PS4 to support UHD BLu-ray digital bridge (Vidipath Server with Playready ND) or is a later more powerful PS4 (Southbridge) to support this?

These questions and their answers should be leaked prior to the update so that news articles can educate the public. The 3 year delay to update is going to create an outcry. The reason for the delay should be part of the announcement.


Thanks in advance

jeff_rigby

I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but half of that doesn't make sense to me. There are statements that should be questions, and it's not clear what you're actually asking in some of the questions. Can you break down what you're getting at here? What's the 4/8 stuff about?

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

It's like reading a manifesto...

That poor guy is going to read that "4 + 4 = 8" stuff and immediately worry for his safety.

 

[8bit]

Argh

 

[Wiped89]

Ultra High Definition Console

http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/SONY__PCR_2016_CUH1116A.pdf

http://efficientgaming.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/SONY__PCR_2016_CUH1216A.pdf


= Launch PS4 is UHD Capable.

UHD is not the same as UHD bluray. UHD could just mean Netflix playback. Your thread title says Bluray.

Capable, in a technical sense, does not mean it will ever happen, for practical and business reasons.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I feel like a line has been crossed, or maybe I was just naive to think the past numerology calculations were some form of self deprecating humour.
I can no longer sanction this buffoonery.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I feel like a line has been crossed, or maybe I was just naive to think the past numerology calculations were some form of self deprecating humour.
I can no longer sanction this buffoonery.

Only game programmers can have Easter eggs in games, Programmers are not allowed to have humor? IF you have followed Sony, they have a few times demonstrated that they have humor or want their projects to be acknowledged and celebrated. The PS3 with firmware update 3.5 (Around 2010) followed the same streaming protocol that Flash server 3.5 versions followed as seen in the Hulu app. The early (2008) PS3 media framework was called Trilithium as in powers Enterprise (Dilithium) fuel.

When I joined the product dev team at Comcast, the first project I worked on was Xfinity for Xbox 360, which was written in Silverlight / C#. However, when the time came to work on the Xbox One, the applications were all based on HTML5 / JavaScript, so I quickly had to become a ninja. This project was never released, sadly.

Even more, the Playstation 3 prototype was written in JavaScript, as PS3 runs Trilithium, which is Sony’s own fork of WebKit. The Playstation 4 app framework is Trilithium, with a WebGL layer built on top of it (also JavaScript), as Sony’s Don Olmstead illustrates very well in this talk.

Webkit did not show up in the PS3 browser till 2012 when it also appeared in Vita at launch. The same is going to happen with Vidipath and UHD capable, the Launch PS4 will get a firmware update update about when a PS4 Slim or NEO launches which will have UHD capable features as part of it's OS on day one.

For several years I stated the PS3 was getting a Webkit update to the browser and from looking at the required disclosure for the Javascript engine, could tell it was a fork of Gnome's GTKwebkit. For Playstation Mobile I guessed the engine was Mono because Mono was developed as a Gnome project that went on to have other uses and I was proved correct.

Mono and compiler are built into the PS4 OS as the commercial framework which calls Webkit native libraries (APIs). This allows signed code and does not require disclosure...again I speculated this would happen.

From my point of view, 2012 is happening all over again. I stated late 2010 that the PS3 was going to get a Webkit browser. I was told it's too late in the PS3's life, you are crazy echoing comments in this thread. Two years later (2012) we got the PS3 Webkit browser.

Late 2014 Sony posted a job for porting Playready embedded to the PS3 and PS4 or for PS4 apps. I stated this is: 1) for Vidipath and the industry would soon require embedded DRM and would not allow Playready 2 or DRM in the APP. That will happen with PS3 Firmware 5.0 and PS4 Firmware 4.0.

A year ago, knowing that Sony firmware roadmaps do occasionally have numbers that signify something to the programmers, I sat down and tried to see a pattern knowing that the PS3 and PS4 would get Vidipath support at the same time (obvious as streaming media between platforms in the home is kinda stupid if one of your platforms can do it and another can't). What do PS4 Firmware 4.0 and PS3 firmware 5.0 have in common??? Hmmm, can it be 8? Looked up 8 and it's considered an extremely lucky number in China and that is their biggest potential market. What about Japan, the 8 turns out to be an auspicious number because of the shape.

Is Vidipath a game changer worthy of an effort by programmers to rearrange the firmware roadmap? Vidipath is made possible because of Open Source standards for delivery using HTML5 and a common DRM called Playready. Sony is going to use Playready ND to support Vidipath streaming from the UHD blu-ray digital bridge. ALL UHD media uses HTML5 and delivers media to a web page. So it's not just Vidipath but it is key to consumer acceptance of IP media streaming in the home over the home network....so yes what's coming with Vidipath is worth rearranging the roadmap for the PS4.

Because I see this it's "buffoonery"? Not seeing this is myopia of the mind.

 

[Adam Tyner]

The same is going to happen with Vidipath and UHD capable

For two years in October I have been researching what it takes to support UHD Capable

You realize that "UHD Capable" is not a name brand, product, or industry term, right?

Because I see this it's "buffoonery"?

Your email to Joshua would've been infinitely more effective if you'd kept it short and asked straightforward questions, like:

Hi, Joshua.

I was reading the document you submitted to efficientgaming.eu and had a couple of questions about what 'UHD Capable' means. Will the PlayStation 4 consoles already on the market receive a firmware update to allow UHD streaming? Is there any chance of Ultra HD Blu-ray playback for the PS4 I bought last year?

Thanks,

- Jeff Rigby

If I were Josh and received an email like the one I described, I would respond to the best of my ability. If I received the one you actually sent, I'd either immediately delete it or maybe pass it around the office for my coworkers to laugh at. Beyond how bizarre/rambling so much of it sounds, your line following the questions is (at least to my mind) completely inappropriate.

 

[jeff_rigby]

You realize that "UHD Capable" is not a name brand, product, or industry term, right?

Your email to Joshua would've been infinitely more effective if you'd kept it short and asked straightforward questions, like:

If I were Josh and received an email like the one I described, I would respond to the best of my ability. If I received the one you actually sent, I'd either immediately delete it or maybe pass it around the office for my coworkers to laugh at. Beyond how bizarre/rambling so much of it sounds, your line following the questions is (at least to my mind) completely inappropriate.

Read my letter again in about 6 months. The viewpoint changes when looking at it in hindsight which anyone on the inside will be doing.

The last letter I wrote (2010) to a Sony employee was about webkit coming to the PS3 and was formatted exactly like you suggest, it caused amusement. Webkit was already being used for the APPs and the entire CE industry had plans to use webkit for the UI and delivery as we see in the PS4.

If I had done the proper research I would not have needed to ask if webkit was coming to the PS3. DLNA 2003, CEA2007 and the FCC in 2010 mandating the cable industry to support DLNA CVP2 by June 2012 (Delayed twice by TiVo suits) were part of this. ATSC 2 and XTV as well as DLNA CVP2 were part of the Microsoft Leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint for a 2013 Console as a Media hub.

There is much more information available now to show what is coming and I don't want to again amuse in a letter to Sony. My condescending attitude leaking though in this thread is based on knowing what is coming and it's amusing at times and frustrating at times reading posts in this thread. The easiest to support part of UHD Capable/UHD Blu-ray is the blu-ray drive yet JaseC is willing to bet on that when the other parts are confirmed with UHD Capable. Only if Sony does not want to support UHD Blu-ray will that be the case and who believes that? It would be sure to get a laugh if I had just asked that.

 

[Gamezone]

Read my letter again in about 6 months. The viewpoint changes when looking at it in hindsight which anyone on the inside will be doing.

The last letter I wrote (2010) to a Sony employee was about webkit coming to the PS3 and was formatted exactly like you suggest, it caused amusement. Webkit was already being used for the APPs and the entire CE industry had plans to use webkit for the UI and delivery as we see in the PS4.

If I had done the proper research I would not have needed to ask if webkit was coming to the PS3. DLNA 2003, CEA2007 and the FCC in 2010 mandating the cable industry to support DLNA CVP2 by June 2012 (Delayed twice by TiVo suits) were part of this. ATSC 2 and XTV as well as DLNA CVP2 were part of the Microsoft Leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint for a 2013 Console as a Media hub.

There is much more information available now to show what is coming and I don't want to again amuse in a letter to Sony. My condescending attitude leaking though in this thread is based on knowing what is coming and it's amusing at times and frustrating at times reading posts in this thread. The easiest to support part of UHD Capable/UHD Blu-ray is the blu-ray drive yet JaseC is willing to bet on that when the other parts are confirmed with UHD Capable. Only if Sony does not want to support UHD Blu-ray will that be the case and who believes that? It would be sure to get a laugh if I had just asked that.

Sure Sony want to support UHD Blu-ray. It`s probably called the PS4 Neo.

 

[exmachina64]

If I were Josh and received an email like the one I described, I would respond to the best of my ability. If I received the one you actually sent, I'd either immediately delete it or maybe pass it around the office for my coworkers to laugh at. Beyond how bizarre/rambling so much of it sounds, your line following the questions is (at least to my mind) completely inappropriate.

Any denial Rigby were to receive would be interpreted as further evidence that the speculated firmware update is being kept secret.

 

[Elios83]

Sorry Jeff nothing personal but I really don't know why this fantasy land is being kept going on.
Current PS4 and Xbox One won't receive any magical firmware upadate to read Ultra HD BR.
If you're interested in that feature you'll need to buy new hardware (X1S,Neo or whatever).

 

[jeff_rigby]

Sorry Jeff nothing personal but I really don't know why this fantasy land is being kept going on.
Current PS4 and Xbox One won't receive any magical firmware upadate to read Ultra HD BR.
If you're interested in that feature you'll need to buy new hardware (X1S,Neo or whatever).

Why? Please support your statement without using terms like Fantasy Land and Magical.

1) Do you understand that the Launch PS4 and XB1 are UHD Capable? The PS4 as UHD capable should apply to the BD drive also and it appears possible.
2) The standards for a UHD disk have been available since before 2010 and a 2011 BDXL drive can read a UHD disk. The UHD player requires changes to the drive firmware to support two modes, a UHD mode and HD mode. The difference amounts to register changes so when the drive reads a UHD blu-ray disk it's put into a different mode using different register addresses. This keeps a HD player APP from being able to read a UHD media disk. and a UHD player from being able to read a HD media disk. There is nothing keeping Sony, for example, from providing both routines in the same HD/UHD player. The BDA specs only say the disk can't have both formats at the same time.
3) The PS4 has a BD-ROM drive that is also BD-R. The latest (2010) of the three BD-R spec drives can read BDXL version 2 disks which are also used for UHD. The 2006 PS3 blu-ray drive received an update to support BD-R in 2008 which did not support version 2 disks. BDXL bunner drives are under the BD-RE category.

BD-R Version 3.0—R 3.0 (BDXL)
defined in June 2010
a multi-layered recordable in BDAV with 2× and 4× speeds
capable of 100/128 GB and usage of UDF 2.5/2.6 as file system

4) The PS3 blu-ray player/drive has all the same named routines for blu-ray playback that the UHD Player/drives require. UHD players are required to have all those routines running in a Trusted boot TEE. AVC Codec vs HEVC Codec
5) Game consoles do not require a licence for the drive, a Whitelist server or Key pairing server. Changing the register addresses depending on mode should just be a firmware update.

6) The 2015 version of the PS4 shipped 5 months after the BDA published the UHD drive specs and within two months of other Embedded UHD players which use the same licence that Game Consoles use. It could support UHD blu-ray even if the 2013 version couldn't but the 2013 version of the PS4 is UHD capable like the 2015 version.

You are assuming a business reason for not firmware upgrading the PS4 to support UHD blu-ray. This is ass backwards, Sony wants as many UHD consoles in homes as possible and 40 million Launch PS4s will outnumber the NEO for about three years assuming it's more expensive than the PS4 2015 version which Sony has said will be sold alongside NEO. Only the more expensive NEO will support UHD blu-ray? That's stupid and Sony is not stupid. They went to the effort to make the 2013 PS4 UHD capable and that was harder than insuring a Blu-ray drive can be firmware updated to support UHD blu-ray.

You guys keep forgetting that Sony is part of the BDA and the HDMI.org and worked with AMD (HEVC encode VCE in the XB1 confirmed and AMD provided a VCE for the PS4 APU) and Cadence (Xtensa DSP accelerator for UVD6 HEVC capable).

 

[SwordStruck]

1) Do you understand that the Launch PS4 and XB1 are UHD Capable?

At least when it comes to the Xbox One, the most official "documentation" that we have in regards to this is the 2015 European compliance report, where Microsoft specifically listed the Xbox One as a high definition console. The PS4 reports were the only ones claiming UHD capability.

 

[jeff_rigby]

At least when it comes to the Xbox One, the most official "documentation" that we have in regards to this is the 2015 European compliance report, where Microsoft specifically listed the Xbox One as a high definition console. The PS4 reports were the only ones claiming UHD capability.

Of 7 letters concerning the game Consoles (PS4 and XB1) UHD capablity, three were reports by Sony and Microsoft employees and one of those stated the XB1 as HD and that could be an error in that the report was about HD media compliance as all the three 2015 compliance reports tested only HD media. Every other letter except the first mentions both the XB1 and PS4 as UHD Capable and the first just mentions 2013 game consoles as UHD capable.

The independent Compliance lab report is very specific in mentioning by model number the two PS4 and one XB1 console as UHD Capable. The Steering committee composed of the same Microsoft and Sony employees that wrote their own compliance reports did not correct the Independent labs description of the XB1 and PS4 as UHD Capable.

Sony has a BDA UHD Blu-ray licence that covers Game Consoles but Microsoft does not. Microsoft also has no licence for a HD blu-ray player either so a third party wrote that too. Beyond the EU letters, there is more evidence for the XB1 as UHD capable than for the PS4. There is more evidence that Sony is heavily involved with UHD blu-ray players and none for Microsoft.

 

[Gestault]

Jeff, people are giving you good advice on things like the email to Joshua Aslan. Even when you're right, you need brevity/clarity when you're trying to get anything across to other people.

 

[herod]

Why bother citing a web of unproven negatives when you can just get it straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-the-big-interview

You announced Xbox One S. I hear there's extra processing power...

Phil Spencer: I keep hearing this as well. First thing for us with Xbox One S is making sure we have a great entry-level price, because price is critical. It's $299, smaller design, great-looking design, it plays all your Xbox One games, your accessories work. If you think about the really critical things it has to go do, we needed to tick all those boxes. That was the product.

Then we looked at what was happening, and we said there were some opportunities for us to do a little more. With upgrading the HDMI technology in the box, we're able to support 4K video streaming. So we said, okay, if we're going to support 4K video streaming, let's also put a UHD Blu-ray drive in there for 4K disc, so you can watch video in 4K. Just because where we were in technology, we saw that and we said, okay, let's make that possible.

From a design standpoint, it was designed to play Xbox One games exactly the same way your existing Xbox One does.

hmm

upgrading the HDMI technology to support 4K video streaming

putting a UHD Blu-Ray drive in there for 4K disc

why even mention these if it was already possible to do so?

I mean, it's so fucking obvious that even if they could (they can't), they won't.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Why bother citing a web of unproven negatives when you can just get it straight from the horse's mouth

I quoted that a while back. Jeff dismisses Phil Spencer as just being a salesman and not knowing what he's talking about. Direct quotes from Microsoft's Stacey Spears (who was involved from the start on the XB1 about all things video-related) and Masayasu Ito (who leads the PlayStation hardware group) that their company's launch consoles will never be capable of playing Ultra HD Blu-ray disc have been similarly disregarded.

 

[herod]

I quoted that a while back. Jeff dismisses Phil Spencer as just being a salesman and not knowing what he's talking about. Direct quotes from Microsoft's Stacey Spears (who was involved from the start on the XB1 about all things video-related) and Masayasu Ito (who leads the PlayStation hardware group) that their company's launch consoles will never be capable of playing Ultra HD Blu-ray disc have been similarly disregarded.

I kind of assumed so but I think it's worth referring back to it every so often just to put in perspective how far down the rabbit hole Jeff has gone.

I think I remember Jeff suggesting the new console was for 'blu-tooth'. lol

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Why bother citing a web of unproven negatives when you can just get it straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-the-big-interview




hmm

upgrading the HDMI technology to support 4K video streaming

putting a UHD Blu-Ray drive in there for 4K disc

why even mention these if it was already possible to do so?

I mean, it's so fucking obvious that even if they could (they can't), they won't.

You guys should just let Jeff ramble by himself.

 

[thetester77]

as has been said many times from myself and others, what's possible doesn't matter. The fact of the matter Sony and microsoft won't upgrade via miracle firmware as 4k Uhd blu ray will be big selling point of new consoles.

So the bet against Jeff is a safe one.

now can this thread finish until there is any news that proves this one way or another?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I was originally amused by the pseudo-language and logic barrier that enables most of Jeff's posts.

That email though? It's downright frightening. Do you ever take a step back and realize that not everyone knows what's going on in your head? Would it have really hurt to be polite or even explain what some of the incoherent numbered points meant? It's not as if the person reading that email will have read this thread in its entirety. There's no flow or consistency that leads from A to B to C, it's like there's a record playing in your head and you let fly whenever the needle comes down at random.

I would hate to be a professor reading your research papers and exams if this is how you interpret and present data to an audience. If you send further correspondence and actually want anything other than smug self satisfaction, learn to talk to people.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I quoted that a while back. Jeff dismisses Phil Spencer as just being a salesman and not knowing what he's talking about. Direct quotes from Microsoft's Stacey Spears (who was involved from the start on the XB1 about all things video-related) and Masayasu Ito (who leads the PlayStation hardware group) that their company's launch consoles will never be capable of playing Ultra HD Blu-ray disc have been similarly disregarded.

Gesh, ADAM, Spears and Ito have been PROVEN to be WRONG!!!!!!!!! The PS4 BD is listed by Sony as BD-R and unless it's a 2008 or earlier drive it's able to read 4 layers with the Panasonic-Sony Tweak = 100 GB 3 layer version 2 disk. You can not use the GCN GPU or X-86 CPU for DRM media....when will you accept this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check for you self and stop using those cites as authorities....they make you appear pitiful.

Phil Spencer's statement can stand as accurate as the XB1 Slim will be the first to support UHD blu-ray, the earlier consoles will be firmware updated later.

The PS4 and XB1 launch consoles are UHD capable.

As to the XB1 slim having bluetooth support, I expected the Launch XB1 to have bluetooth support and the controller to be bluetooth as I knew that game streaming to other platforms was coming to both platforms in 2012. Most CE high end platforms are using bluetooth for controllers and some have microphones for voice control. Most of the new PCs have bluetooth and can use a PS4 controller for games.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Gesh, ADAM, Spears and Ito have been PROVEN to be WRONG!!!!!!!!!

No, they haven't.

As to the XB1 slim having blu-ray support, I expected the Launch XB1 to have blu-ray support and the controller to be blu-ray

How is the controller "blu-ray"?

Most CE high end platforms are using blu-tooth for controllers and some have microphones for voice control. Most of the new PCs have blu-tooth and can use a PS4 controller for games.

It's spelled "Bluetooth", chief.

 

[jeff_rigby]

No, they haven't.

How is the controller "blu-ray"? It's spelled "Bluetooth", chief.

A new Blu-ray disc technology was designed to support 4K resolution.[39] Although the console supports photos and videos at 4K resolution, the system is not expected to render games at 4K.[42][43]

A new Blu-ray disc technology was designed to support 4K resolution

 

[Stevey]

This thread is absolute bollocks.

 

[Adam Tyner]

A new Blu-ray disc technology was designed to support 4K resolution

A Wikipedia reference isn't exactly bulletproof, and it's citing Eurogamer speculation from the better part of a year prior to launch. As for what Eurogamer actually says in the link Wikipedia cites:

The spec appears to be a very close match for the standard BD drives Sony itself currently produces, lending further evidence to the notion that we're looking at a cost-effective 50GB dual-layer unit rather than the more exotic 100GB quad-layer drives said to be coming in the future to accommodate 4K video playback.

The actual citation says the opposite of what you're claiming! It's also speculation (and clearly marked as such) rather than any sort of definitive statement.

Check for you self and stop using those cites as authorities....

Ito, Spears, and Spencer are authorities in every sense of the word. If you disagree, then find someone high up the chain at Microsoft or Sony affirming Ultra HD Blu-ray playback in the launch consoles.

The only evidence you've been able to find dates back to nearly three years prior to the format's launch from a guy who also said "Kinect will always be integral to Xbox One" and who just the other day had to backpedal from an erroneous statement.

 

[Gestault]

On contentious points, I'm always surprised when someone pulls from a Wikipedia write-up as retort without any reference to its citation. It's easy to get less-than-stellar info if you're not looking at the underlying sources.

Too often it seems like either not knowing any better, or not caring enough and wanting the appearance of validation.

 

[liquidtmd]

This thread is absolute bollocks.

This thread feels like it's been bollocks since 2013.

 

[horkrux]

Reading this page feels like going back in time. I'm sure we've had lengthy discussions about some of these arguments a few pages back, but I must be growing senile.

 

[herod]

Just read some more of Jeff's spectacular leaps of logic. Jeff's assertion that the drives can be upgraded to higher density triple layer devices is predicated on a patent that prevents drives from reading newer versions disks because they are potentially compatible with SOME aspects of the discs (because they're based on existing standards).

He also points to a table of extra features of new format drives concludes that they "look to just be firmware".

The supposition that they can a) therefore read the whole spec (no proof in the patent despite his claims) and b) be upgraded to this by a simple firmware update is entirely his own assertion.

No proof exists of his claims about the drives being able to be upgraded. Just pure speculation. No evidence that it's possible in the field, no evidence that doing so has no security implications.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Just read some more of Jeff's spectacular leaps of logic. Jeff's assertion that the drives can be upgraded to higher density triple layer devices is predicated on a patent that prevents drives from reading newer versions disks because they are potentially compatible with SOME aspects of the discs (because they're based on existing standards).

He also points to a table of extra features of new format drives concludes that they "look to just be firmware".

The supposition that they can a) therefore read the whole spec (no proof in the patent despite his claims) and b) be upgraded to this by a simple firmware update is entirely his own assertion.

No proof exists of his claims about the drives being able to be upgraded. Just pure speculation. No evidence that it's possible in the field, no evidence that doing so has no security implications.

All true months ago. The PS4 has a BD-ROM/BD-R drive according to Sony and unless it's years old it can read the BD-R 3.0 2010 spec which is the version 2 66/100 GB disk. The other changes appear to be firmware. Remember the BDA wants to make it as easy as possible to support UHD Blu-ray.

herod, apply the same strict judgement on Ito and Spears statements and comment on that. If you don't this is a one sided argument not worthy of thinking people.

 

[Adam Tyner]

herod, apply the same strict judgement on Ito and Spears statements and comment on that. If you don't this is a one sided argument not worthy of thinking people.

As a reminder, the statements in question boil down to:

Stacey Spears

• The Xbox One needs a dedicated HEVC decoder for Ultra HD Blu-ray, which the Xbox One S has and the launch Xbox One does not.
• The Xbox One's Blu-ray drive is not capable of reading Ultra HD Blu-ray discs, although the Xbox One S has a new drive that is.

Masayasu Ito

• The PS4 needs a dedicated HEVC decoder for Ultra HD Blu-ray, which the existing models do not have.
• The PS4's Blu-ray drive is not capable of reading Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.

These are people who intimately know and have extensive working knowledge of the hardware in question. That's not to say that every word they utter is correct, but it's certainly not guesswork or unsubstantiated speculation.

To the best of my knowledge, neither of them have been laughed out of and/or banned from numerous technically-oriented forums.