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UK: Ban on samurai swords becomes law

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NekoFever

Member
Absinthe said:
That's absurd. I can't imagine that samurai sword attacks are very widespread and this especially sucks for collectors or those who are interested in Japanese culture.
Exemptions will cover swords which are used for re-enactments or antique weapons kept on display by collectors.
Sounds to me like you can own an actual antique sword, but not one of those cheap ones, which is weird. And I doubt there's any law against one that isn't actually sharp, either, just like you can own deactivated guns for display.

The funny this is that my dad owns a replica Excalibur which is very sharp and very heavy - you could do a ton of damage with it if you wanted to - and as far as I can tell that's not illegal.
 

JayDubya

Banned
Doubledex said:
WTF is this shit! I already have 4 of them!
Banning guns, ok, but my swords? FU!
Good thing: I do not live in the UK

"I don't have any guns, so I don't care if you ban them, but leave my swords alone, jerks. Gosh." :lol
 

painey

Member
I don't see how anyone can have a problem with this.. collectors are fine, people doing reenactments are fine.. the only people who suffer are people wanting to purchase cheap swords which seems pretty smart to me.
 

Cirruss

Member
NekoFever said:
Sounds to me like you can own an actual antique sword, but not one of those cheap ones, which is weird. And I doubt there's any law against one that isn't actually sharp, either, just like you can own deactivated guns for display.

The funny this is that my dad owns a replica Excalibur which is very sharp and very heavy - you could do a ton of damage with it if you wanted to - and as far as I can tell that's not illegal.

Makes sense, if you are able to afford an actual antique sword then you are more likely to have a brain and not run outside slicing at people with it.
 

Danj

Member
Ghost said:
I hate to admit it, but it's true, people are just tougher up north, I get axed, I'm pressing charges.

Uh, no, I think that just means they got the wrong guy.
 
Eight years ago a councillor was killed by a man wielding a samurai sword in the office of Cheltenham Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones.
...
Last month a gang of youths, one armed with a samurai sword, attacked a 15-year-old boy in Newry, County Down.
...
On another occasion, a youth was seen brandishing a sword in Newcastle.
...

It's like a god damn epidemic!! THANK GOD THIS SENSIBLE LEGISLATION HAS COME IN TO EFFECT! I FEEL SO MUCH SAFER.

Pointless, stupid gesture. Well, at least I can still legally own a crossbow without a license, but I mean a crossbow - how could that hurt anyone?

So what happens? people who currently own swords are supposed to hand them in?
 

Danj

Member
i hate bees said:
Well, at least I can still legally own a crossbow without a license

Wait, you can? Awesome, where do I get one? Also, have they upgraded them with modern tech? Like, for example, do they make folding ones with carbon fibre frames and laser sights and shit?
 
Danj said:
Wait, you can? Awesome, where do I get one? Also, have they upgraded them with modern tech? Like, for example, do they make folding ones with carbon fibre frames and laser sights and shit?

Sure, I'm sure you can get better ones but only know this off the top of my head.

Linky.
 

Shoho

Banned
I wish we lived in an age where people would wield swords...


I hope that swords will get its uses in the future.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
i hate bees said:
but I mean a crossbow - how could that hurt anyone?


you could fire one up into the ceiling of your shared room at university, then shit yourself when it disappears. Then you run quickly up to the girls' room directly above and find the bolt embedded into the bottom of their bed. You could.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
CHEEZMO™ said:
Klaw has touched upon a good point.
Surely its easier to kill someone with one of the millions of knives (even kitchenware knives) than a 4 foot piece of steel? Easier to hide too.

Its like letting people waltz around with handguns after banning the Arquebus!


plus the fact is, knife crime (and murders) are up a lot in this country. and they are all small knives that kids carry around with them.

we should just ban all cutlery just to be safe.
 
Perhaps remove all food stuffs too, just replace it with liquidized mush like in the matrix - which people can consume using plastic straws.

Oh and someone hit me in the face once and I hear it happens a lot, I think it's only right we should all wear boxing gloves while in public because to be honest I feel quite threatened by hands now :(
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
i hate bees said:
Perhaps remove all food stuffs too, just replace it with liquidized mush like in the matrix - which people can consume using plastic straws.

Oh and someone hit me in the face once and I hear it happens a lot, I think it's only right we should all wear boxing gloves while in public because to be honest I feel quite threatened by hands now :(


straws, are you mad? have you seen the damage you can do to a potato with a straw?
 

Solaros

Member
Yes, instead of implementing certain educational procedures that teach one how to deal with anger we shall just ban everything. Ben was right about the ones who give up their essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither.
 

Shirokun

Member
Blame this guy!

352k6br.png
 

HolyStar

Banned
Well, if you think about it, a sword wound is a lot more deadly than a single gunshot wound. In a way this makes sense, and it stops people from rising from the slums to become samurai and challange the government.
 

Teknoman

Member
HolyStar said:
Well, if you think about it, a sword wound is a lot more deadly than a single gunshot wound. In a way this makes sense, and it stops people from rising from the slums to become samurai and challange the government.

Heh...would be intresting though to say the least. Plus it takes someone to be really angry (or really crazy) to get close and stab/slash someone. With a gun, you can be a coward and just pull the trigger from anywhere. So even if they didnt outlaw them, they still probably wouldnt have been as common as people getting shot.
 
HolyStar said:
Well, if you think about it, a sword wound is a lot more deadly than a single gunshot wound. In a way this makes sense, and it stops people from rising from the slums to become samurai and challange the government.

Maybe if delivered from a wandering Samurai, luckily we don't get many of them in the UK these days.
 

Teknoman

Member
Do they actually let you carry them on planes in Japan? Just wondering because I think they have pretty strict laws on swords over there as well.
 

dreadfulwater

aka morbidesque
so if Ninjas descend on picadilly circus, they are REALLY going to be in trouble now. unless this new law doesn't cover the Ninja-to?
 

Teknoman

Member
Morbidesque said:
so if Ninjas descend on picadilly circus, they are REALLY going to be in trouble now. unless this new law doesn't cover the Ninja-to?

Well apparently its curved blades and samurai swords, and if i'm thinking of the right weapon thats not curved...so its all good :D
 
Oh no don't worry - from what I gather Ninja swords are still perfectly legal.

2aadc3d.jpg


Failing that, you can still legally purchase a spear, axe or any number of any other offensive weapons - as I said, totally empty gesture. Pisses me off.
 

xabre

Banned
i hate bees said:
Failing that, you can still legally purchase a spear, axe or any number of any other offensive weapons - as I said, totally empty gesture. Pisses me off.

What about a crossbow?
 

Aske

Member
As a long time sword enthusiast with a sizable collection of hand-made pieces, this legislation saddens me. Quite apart from the fact that I disagree with the fundamental philosophy behind the ban and the laughable notion that it will result in less people being injured by each other; it's important to remember that crappy replicas are a starting point for many who become serious about swords. Not every sword enthusiast is a martial artist or an antique collector. Plenty of people recognise the artisry and craftsmanship inherent in the sword-making art. They watch movies, buy crap, and then the best of them start to research that crap. They realise they still haven't held a real sword, and a proportion of them become the people who support the true sword making industry.

I bought a couple of horrible 'replicas' in my teens. Those in the community refer to them as 'sword-like objects'. They're not swords. They're typically constructed with a little rat-tail tang (the portion of the blade which extends into the grip) which is welded on to a chunk of stainless steel. These tangs frequently snap if the blade is subjected to minimal stress - even a swing can cause the blade to fly out of the hilt. The stainless steel used in the blade is also too brittle, and proper balance and geometry don't even factor into the design. Even with a full tang, blades will snap. Breakage is very common when these things are used for anything but display. Yet they are are often sold sharp, and should probably be banned because poor construction makes them dangerous. But not because they're swords.

The smart thing to do would be to make sharp sword-like objects that are dangerously brittle and liable to cause injury illegal. Crappy replicas are fine as long as they're safe - and there are plenty of loosely martial arts grade swords that can be bought online for a couple of hundred dollars if a criminal really wants to circumvent the new laws. Google Hanwei or Cheness.

More hurdles placed in the way of budding collectors and the demonization of swords as nothing more than unnecessary and dangerous when in the hands of the general public will hurt craftsmen - people who work in a very niche industry to produce unique works of art that will exist for generations. Collectors, western martial artists, eastern martial artists and historians are mostly protected and will continue to support these artists, and this is a very good thing. But people with a vague interest in swords who don't move in any of the enthusiast circles will find it even harder to break in, and that can only damage an industry already on the very periphery of modern culture.

Japanese smiths are protected by their government, and their work is easy to find online. Here are some links for anyone interested in looking at swords made by a small handful of western sword makers.

Ollin Sword Design- Aside from being shockingly skilled at free-hand grinding and paying meticulous attention to detail, Mark is also a lifelong gamer. His work is an eclectic mix of the historical and the contemporary.

Castle Keep - Rob is a Scottish bladesmith who will probably feel the knock-on effects of this ban more than most. His focus in on historical recreation, and his basket-hilts are particularly fantastic.

Jake Powning - Jake does amazing work with pattern-welded steel. These are high end art swords.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
mrklaw said:
you could fire one up into the ceiling of your shared room at university, then shit yourself when it disappears. Then you run quickly up to the girls' room directly above and find the bolt embedded into the bottom of their bed. You could.

Yeah, I tried that excuse too. Apparently it still doesn't count as a workaround for the restraining order.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Aske said:
Here are some links for anyone interested in looking at swords made by a small handful of western sword makers.

Ollin Sword Design- Aside from being shockingly skilled at free-hand grinding and paying meticulous attention to detail, Mark is also a lifelong gamer. His work is an eclectic mix of the historical and the contemporary.

Castle Keep - Rob is a Scottish bladesmith who will probably feel the knock-on effects of this ban more than most. His focus in on historical recreation, and his basket-hilts are particularly fantastic.

Jake Powning - Jake does amazing work with pattern-welded steel. These are high end art swords.

Can you vouch for any of these craftsmen?
 

Aske

Member
K.Jack said:
Can you vouch for any of these craftsmen?

I can vouch for all three of them. If you're looking to buy a sword, feel free to shoot me a PM if you'd like any additional info. That goes for anyone reading the thread. Swords aren't quite as hard to buy as HDTVs, but the level of misinformation and potential pitfalls are about the same.
 
Of course it doesn't affect re-enactments.

What type of fool would use a real sword with a real edge in a re-enactment? Back in my early 20's I thought it would be cool to buy a sword replica. Now that I'm older and somewhat wiser, I realize that swinging around a real sword would be very dangerous for myself, any stupid bystanders, and the shrubbery in front of my house.

Just buy a stainless steal display model that does not have an edge.
 

Aske

Member
Tyrannical said:
Of course it doesn't affect re-enactments.

What type of fool would use a real sword with a real edge in a re-enactment? Back in my early 20's I thought it would be cool to buy a sword replica. Now that I'm older and somewhat wiser, I realize that swinging around a real sword would be very dangerous for myself, any stupid bystanders, and the shrubbery in front of my house.

Just buy a stainless steal display model that does not have an edge.

You can buy well-balanced blunts for re-enactment, but just buying a stainless steel display model is not the same thing as buying a sword. Not even close. There is a world of experience to be found in holding a properly balanced sword with historically accurate geometry. Believe it or not, most longer western swords should balance rather like fishing rods. They feel alive in the hand.

Swinging around a real sword is dangerous. But test cutting (or tamashigiri if you're Japanese) allows a user with a basic understanding of correct technique to truly feel the artistry inherent in blade geometry. Making clean cuts with a sword is very similar to target practice with a projectile weapon, and it's not easy to maintain edge alignment during a swing for a beginner.

As has been stated, there's no reason not to allow adults to own sharp swords. If they're illegal to carry in public, they're no more dangerous than a privately owned hedge trimmer. Criminals can and will use any easily obtained blades as weapons regardless of the availability of swords, and in practise very few opt for such a cumbersome weapon in any case.

There is a great deal to be appreciated about a good sword that is invisible to the naked eye, and many aspects of the craft can only be experienced with a sharp blade.
 

JayDubya

Banned
Aske said:
As has been stated, there's no reason not to allow adults to own sharp swords. If they're illegal to carry in public, they're no more dangerous than a privately owned hedge trimmer.

While we're at it, there's no reason not to let them be carried them in public. There's reason to say someone can't say, go hack off someone else's limbs with it for no reason, but that's kind of covered under assault, yeah?

If they stay in their sheathe, they're also no more dangerous than a hedge trimmer. If drawn for self-defense, they're plenty dangerous and that's okay.
 

Aske

Member
JayDubya said:
While we're at it, there's no reason not to let them be carried them in public. There's reason to say someone can't say, go hack off someone else's limbs with it for no reason, but that's kind of covered under assault, yeah?

If they stay in their sheathe, they're also no more dangerous than a hedge trimmer. If drawn for self-defense, they're plenty dangerous and that's okay.

You'll get no argument from me. Law abiding citizens are shamefully restricted when it comes to self defence in most parts of the western world. But cultural context is everything, and while revision of the law with regard to self defense would be a significant challange to current popular culture, the mindset which forbids ownership of unpopular objects is less deeply entreched in our society.
 
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