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[Karsticles]

What if we gave him a diagonal Plasma Beam?

Spoiler

lol

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*Hidden Missiles (assist): missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles.
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased; still allows for full combos; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max; startup decreased by 2 frames across the board; L version now -3 on block; M version now -1 on block; H version now +1 on block.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash and hyper cancelable.

They're giving a Umvc3 tournament stream with the commentators being Maximillian and Dr. Doom of Online Warrior and Assist Me! Fame.

http://www.twitch.tv/capcomfighters

Are you guys talking about how to balance doom if after you were to nerf his divekick and missiles?

I sometimes wonder if his "poor" point game you mentioned is the balance to his very powerful and veratile missile assist.

We are adding good assists to a lot of characters.

 

[Fringot]

Ah, good, thats definately a good plan to build to. It would make the game much more fun.

I remember somebody mentioned "make some average with super good assists, and others good with poor assists" on another forum. That definately would have backfired in the long run.

 

[Dahbomb]

Really? His keepaway game has never been stronger. Doom on point already has sick conversions into huge damage that most of the cast wishes they had. Just because other characters are gaining those abilities doesn't neutralize the strengths that Doom already had. j.S has received only moderate nerfs. It's still strong.

Doom in the current game has like 1/3rd good match ups, 1/3rd even match ups and 1/3rd bad match ups. If every character was balanced, he would be a mid tier character at best. The problem is that the 1/3rd of his good match ups were shit characters... everyone owned them. Characters like Iron Fist, Hsien Ko. Unsurprisingly all the characters he lost to were top/high tier characters.

In the new game, all his bad match ups characters got WAY WAY better. Iron Fist now has legitimate options against Doom, he has double jump plus air OK Rising Fang and he can make one good read on Doom with Volcanic Rage, XF into Doom's death. Plus Iron Fist can on reaction armor through Foot Dive now as well (can't armor through j.M though). Hawkeye who already destroyed Doom got buffed. Strange who owns Doom will most likely get buffed. Dante got buffed. Wesker got buffed and he can on reaction Rhino Charge him or use his better counters. Dorm got buffed. Not to mention all the numerous anti air assists that will be in this version.

Doom was a good pick in UMVC3 not because he was a godly point character.... he was a reliable solo character who was a god tier support/assist. We have greatly toned down his support/assist value on a team... not only that we have significantly buffed every other character's support/assist value. Someone like Iron Man would be way more valuable right now than Doom unless you really need Missiles or Rocks.

Maybe this makes him "balanced" but I see all these legitimately good characters getting buffed and Doom getting nerfed considerably and I ask myself "is this fair?" The answer is no, this is not entirely fair. Nerfing his support game is acceptable as is nerfing the derp... but you gotta find some buffs to reward smart Doom play.

 

[Karsticles]

Ah, good, thats definately a good plan to build to. It would make the game much more fun.

I remember somebody mentioned "make some average with super good assists, and others good with poor assists" on another forum. That definately would have backfired in the long run.

That was Capcom's original plan, and it has backfired. :-(

Doom in the current game has like 1/3rd good match ups, 1/3rd even match ups and 1/3rd bad match ups. If every character was balanced, he would be a mid tier character at best. The problem is that the 1/3rd of his good match ups were shit characters... everyone owned them. Characters like Iron Fist, Hsien Ko. Unsurprisingly all the characters he lost to were top/high tier characters.

In the new game, all his bad match ups characters got WAY WAY better. Iron Fist now has legitimate options against Doom, he has double jump plus air OK Rising Fang and he can make one good read on Doom with Volcanic Rage, XF into Doom's death. Plus Iron Fist can on reaction armor through Foot Dive now as well (can't armor through j.M though). Hawkeye who already destroyed Doom got buffed. Strange who owns Doom will most likely get buffed. Dante got buffed. Wesker got buffed and he can on reaction Rhino Charge him or use his better counters. Dorm got buffed. Not to mention all the numerous anti air assists that will be in this version.

Doom was a good pick in UMVC3 not because he was a godly point character.... he was a reliable solo character who was a god tier support/assist. We have greatly toned down his support/assist value on a team... not only that we have significantly buffed every other character's support/assist value. Someone like Iron Man would be way more valuable right now than Doom unless you really need Missiles or Rocks.

Maybe this makes him "balanced" but I see all these legitimately good characters getting buffed and Doom getting nerfed considerably and I ask myself "is this fair?" The answer is no, this is not entirely fair. Nerfing his support game is acceptable as is nerfing the derp... but you gotta find some buffs to reward smart Doom play.

Good post.

Spoiler

No matter what he'll still be free to Dormammu.

 

[Frantic]

With the decreased untechable time after a j.S, does that mean Doom can no longer convert off a non-dash canceled Foot Dive? How much less are we talking here?

 

[Dahbomb]

I think with good assists Doom can handle his bad match ups. Something like Bolts or Daggers to get in with, go for a mix up. Most people played him down the order and that's where he got lit up by many characters.

 

[Karsticles]

With the decreased untechable time after a j.S, does that mean Doom can no longer convert off a non-dash canceled Foot Dive? How much less are we talking here?

Less as in "he can no longer trade hits with someone, recover, land, and then s.M".

 

[Frantic]

Less as in "he can no longer trade hits with someone, recover, land, and then s.M".

Okay, but I think you'd have to decrease it considerably to do that, and it might remove non-dash canceled Foot Dive conversions. Could be wrong on that, and I'm not quite sure on the number of frames he currently hard knockdowns for so I can't really say...

 

[Karsticles]

Okay, but I think you'd have to decrease it considerably to do that, and it might remove non-dash canceled Foot Dive conversions. Could be wrong on that, and I'm not quite sure on the number of frames he currently hard knockdowns for so I can't really say...

It's mostly how long the ground bounce is that gives him easy conversions.

 

[GuardianE]

Doom in the current game has like 1/3rd good match ups, 1/3rd even match ups and 1/3rd bad match ups. If every character was balanced, he would be a mid tier character at best. The problem is that the 1/3rd of his good match ups were shit characters... everyone owned them. Characters like Iron Fist, Hsien Ko. Unsurprisingly all the characters he lost to were top/high tier characters.

In the new game, all his bad match ups characters got WAY WAY better. Iron Fist now has legitimate options against Doom, he has double jump plus air OK Rising Fang and he can make one good read on Doom with Volcanic Rage, XF into Doom's death. Plus Iron Fist can on reaction armor through Foot Dive now as well (can't armor through j.M though). Hawkeye who already destroyed Doom got buffed. Strange who owns Doom will most likely get buffed. Dante got buffed. Wesker got buffed and he can on reaction Rhino Charge him or use his better counters. Dorm got buffed. Not to mention all the numerous anti air assists that will be in this version.

Doom was a good pick in UMVC3 not because he was a godly point character.... he was a reliable solo character who was a god tier support/assist. We have greatly toned down his support/assist value on a team... not only that we have significantly buffed every other character's support/assist value. Someone like Iron Man would be way more valuable right now than Doom unless you really need Missiles or Rocks.

Maybe this makes him "balanced" but I see all these legitimately good characters getting buffed and Doom getting nerfed considerably and I ask myself "is this fair?" The answer is no, this is not entirely fair. Nerfing his support game is acceptable as is nerfing the derp... but you gotta find some buffs to reward smart Doom play.

But you haven't handicapped Doom's assists. They're still fantastic. You've adjusted them from being stupid to being excellent. There's still no other assist that has all the utility that Hidden Missiles does. But now, it's doesn't cover absolutely everything.... now there are alternative and better options for certain teams.

Not all buffs are created equal. And honestly, I think some care needs to taken into looking back at certain characters (like Hawkeye) that were already damn good and seeing if the changes that were made were fixes to existing inconsistencies or an overall buff to neutral game.

Basically, when I look at Doom, I think to myself, what would Clockwork want? Because as far as I'm concerned, he's one of the few legitimate Dooms out there, before the character became stupidity incarnate. In fact, Clockwork has a NeoGAF account. I'd encourage one of you to reach out to him.

I think with good assists Doom can handle his bad match ups. Something like Bolts or Daggers to get in with, go for a mix up. Most people played him down the order and that's where he got lit up by many characters.

I also think this is 100% correct. Filling in the existing holes in a characters' point game is an assist's job. People often think that Doom is a piece of shit point character (who still makes a ridiculous amount of comebacks) because you most often see him all by his lonesome.

 

[Dahbomb]

Basically, when I look at Doom, I think to myself, what would Clockwork want? Because as far as I'm concerned, he's one of the few legitimate Dooms out there, before the character became stupidity incarnate.

That's exactly what I am thinking. Like what would he want to make Doom play like he would want him to play. Most likely he will just ask for MVC2 Rocks or something lol!

I am not a Doom player so I can't get into the nitty gritty of his specific stuff. I can only comment as a player of the game... I look at the general toolset of all the characters and with no biased I don't see a good enough reason to pick Doom over someone like new Iron Man + Storm + Magneto + Trish + Doom. Hidden Missiles is the only thing that makes him a legitimate pick. I guess if my execution was bad and I really wanted a good beam assist I would pick Doom over Iron Man.

Maybe allow Foot Dive to combo 2 characters? Would improve his happy birthday game.

 

[Karsticles]

Damn, Doom kills the hype even in character discussion.

How about a buff to Mighty Thunder?

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*Hidden Missiles (assist): missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles.
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased slightly; still allows for full combos off of a non-dash-canceled j.S; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max; startup decreased by 2 frames across the board; L version now -3 on block; M version now -1 on block; H version now +1 on block.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash and hyper cancelable.

Assists: Plasma Beam M, Molecular Shield H, Hidden Missiles

Trish:
*Trick “Hopscotch” travel time and hitstun increased; now OTGs.
*Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
*High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
*Duet Pain now hits OTG.
*Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; hitboxes widened; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
*Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
*Minimum air dash height reduced from 8 to 7 frames.
*j.S hitbox increased for cross-ups.
*Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
*Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
*Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.

Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”

Thor:
*Mighty Spark startup hitbox extended downward more.
*Mighty Smash M assist causes a hard knockdown after the ground bounce; armored from frames 36-63.
*Mighty Smash L super armor from frames 6-20.
*Flight Startup reduced to 20 frames.
*s.H has super armor from frames 6-20.
*s.L startup reduced to 6 frames.
*Startup on all versions of Mighty Strike reduced to 15-25 (charged) frames, have super armor from frames 12-30 regardless of charging.

Assists: Mighty Spark M, Mighty Smash M, Mighty Speech (complete speech)

M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.

Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, b.H

 

[Dahbomb]

I like how we don't have a single point change to MODOK.

Don't even know what he can use improving on.

Is the Mighty Speech assist just a meter building assist or does he just stay there for the whole duration? Seems kinda crazy if he would just stay there forever, I think you should just make it a simple meter building assist.

The other two main issues on the character is that 1) He can't combo after his regular air throw despite being a grappler and 2) Mighty Thunder is still one of the worst hypers in the game.

On MODOK the only thing I can recommend is a slight rescaling of his Hyper Psionic Blaster. The damage off of a no understanding HPB is fucking shit... specials do more damage than that.

I think it should be like this:

0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)

7 is now the maximum level of understanding, you get full benefit off of it. His HPB is now more powerful starting out (still low damage for a LVL1).

 

[Karsticles]

I like how we don't have a single point change to MODOK.

Don't even know what he can use improving on.

*Big Barrier now negates high priority projectiles.
*Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox extended lower slightly.

I like how we don't have a single point change to MODOK.

Don't even know what he can use improving on.

Is the Mighty Speech assist just a meter building assist or does he just stay there for the whole duration? Seems kinda crazy if he would just stay there forever, I think you should just make it a simple meter building assist.


The other two main issues on the character is that 1) He can't combo after his regular air throw despite being a grappler and 2) Mighty Thunder is still one of the worst hypers in the game.

The whole duration. Let people hear that speech! Only a few characters could protect it for its entire duration anyway. It would be one of the hypest things in the game.
I added two suggestions:

Thor:
*Mighty Spark startup hitbox extended downward more.
*Mighty Smash M assist causes a hard knockdown after the ground bounce; armored from frames 36-63.
*Mighty Smash L super armor from frames 6-20.
*Flight Startup reduced to 20 frames.
*s.H has super armor from frames 6-20.
*s.L startup reduced to 6 frames.
*Startup on all versions of Mighty Strike reduced to 15-25 (charged) frames, have super armor from frames 12-30 regardless of charging.
*Mighty Thunder now causes pushback equivalent to Magnetic Shockwave; startup decreased to 10+4.
*Ground and air throws now cause enough knockdown to ensure Mighty Thunder can always connect afterward.

Assists: Mighty Spark M, Mighty Smash M, Mighty Speech (complete speech)

 

[GuardianE]

The whole duration. Let people hear that speech! Only a few characters could protect it for its entire duration anyway. It would be one of the hypest things in the game.

lol, No way. Dante, Vergil, or Zero would be able to call him at the beginning of a combo and build meter the entire time.

 

[Karsticles]

lol, No way. Dante, Vergil, or Zero would be able to call him at the beginning of a combo and build meter the entire time.

Exactly. That beautiful, magnificant speech going the entire time. That's just what I want. A goddamn lecture from Thor while Zero combos you.

I don't know how long the speech lasts, but let's compare it to Dark Harmonizer.

Dark Harmonizer builds 3000 meter, it has 25 startup, and 110 recovery.

Mighty Speech builds 40 meter per frame. So over a period where Dark Harmonizer would build 3000 with nigh-invincibility, Mighty Speech would build 5400 meter. That seems like an interesting tradeoff to me. Does anyone know how many frames the entire speech lasts?

 

[Dahbomb]

That's really stupid. No way can I allow that.

*Ground and air throws now cause enough knockdown to ensure Mighty Thunder can always connect afterward.

You don't need to change his ground throw, he gets a full combo after it. His ground throw is just he tosses you up way high and you just do a combo after it. Air throw is just him smacks you down and since Thor has no quick OTG move he can't follow it up.

 

[GuardianE]

Mighty Speech builds 40 meter per frame. So over a period where Dark Harmonizer would build 3000 with nigh-invincibility, Mighty Speech would build 5400 meter. That seems like an interesting tradeoff to me. Does anyone know how many frames the entire speech lasts?

Mighty Speech lasts about 11 seconds. So, around 660 frames. At a rate of 40 meter per frame, that would be 26,400 meter.

 

[Karsticles]

That's really stupid. No way can I allow that.


You don't need to change his ground throw, he gets a full combo after it. His ground throw is just he tosses you up way high and you just do a combo after it. Air throw is just him smacks you down and since Thor has no quick OTG move he can't follow it up.

Oh right, I forgot.

I'm going to compile more data and make the argument for Mighty Speech. This would seriously be an awesome change.

Might Speech lasts about 11 seconds. So, around 660 frames. At a rate of 40 meter per frame, that would be 26,400 meter.

I say we nerf the meter generation to 10 meter per frame or so, and put it in.

 

[Dahbomb]

No this would not be an interesting change at all. Any team like Dorm would lock you down with Stalking Flare and have Thor assist active while he summons shit and spams Stalking Flare all day. Or Zero having near infinite Sogenmu for pressure. Or getting easy Phoenix meter.

Thor's high health allows the assist to be used liberally. Can't allow it at all. Not to mention all the free meter you will get when you kill a character... or when you have hypers active and Thor is STILL talking. Like what if you could do a hyper, DHC and build that bar back during the whole combo thanks to Thor? It seems so weird to put it in the game.

I say we nerf the meter generation to 10 meter per frame or so, and put it in.

If you nerf it too much it becomes shit and not worth it. If you buff it too much it becomes too good. Just make it a regular meter building assist where Thor comes and taunts you then goes back.

 

[Karsticles]

No this would not be an interesting change at all. Any team like Dorm would lock you down with Stalking Flare and have Thor assist active while he summons shit and spams Stalking Flare all day. Or Zero having near infinite Sogenmu for pressure. Or getting easy Phoenix meter.

Thor's high health allows the assist to be used liberally. Can't allow it at all.

If you nerf it too much it becomes shit and not worth it. If you buff it too much it becomes too good. Just make it a regular meter building assist where Thor comes and taunts you then goes back.

10 meter per frame at 660 frames is 6600 meter, or roughly 2/3 of a bar. I think that's fine for the assist. Phoenix teams wont' get easy meter because there are no point characters who can protect Thor for 660 frames. Sougenmu doesn't last long enough to abuse the assist. Stalking Flare is never safe to spam, and Dark Harmonizer would still be superior for Dormammu because he can't protect the assist.

This would be so cool. :-(

 

[Dahbomb]

10 meter per frame at 660 frames is 6600 meter, or roughly 2/3 of a bar. I think that's fine for the assist. Phoenix teams wont' get easy meter because there are no point characters who can protect Thor for 660 frames. Sougenmu doesn't last long enough to abuse the assist. Stalking Flare is never safe to spam, and Dark Harmonizer would still be superior for Dormammu because he can't protect the assist.

This would be so cool. :-(

That sounds garbage and gimmicky.

It's not just about protecting Thor in the neutral... it's about having the character active during combos, DHCs etc. I just think it's a bad idea... it's either too good (like the initial 40 meter per frame) or too shit (2/3 bars for 11 seconds? Garbage).

I would say at 25 meter per frame it becomes an assist that isn't completely garbage and an assist that isn't ridiculous either. 25 meter per frame gives him 1 2/3 meter at full length. Still I would advise against it.

 

[Karsticles]

That sounds garbage and gimmicky.

It's not just about protecting Thor in the neutral... it's about having the character active during combos, DHCs etc. I just think it's a bad idea... it's either too good (like the initial 40 meter per frame) or too shit (2/3 bars for 11 seconds? Garbage).

I would say at 25 meter per frame it becomes an assist that isn't completely garbage and an assist that isn't ridiculous either. 25 meter per frame gives him 1 2/3 meter at full length. Still I would advise against it.

You can't DHC when an assist is on the screen. So it has a further limiting factor.

Almost two bars is a bit much. I think it would be good at 15 meter per frame. That would make it give you 1 full bar.

 

[GuardianE]

I have to admit. The troll in me loves the idea of it, but you really can't make it too good or people will simply become sick of it. It's better to make it garbage than make it too good.

Just make it equal how much meter you get by spamming Morrigan/Frank/Ammy assist for 11 seconds.

 

[Dahbomb]

*SIGH* fine for 15 frame meter gain.

Also what about my MODOK change. I think that's a solid buff.

 

[Frantic]

Mighty Speech as an assist sounds terrible.

Go for it!

 

[Dahbomb]

Guys we need some MODOK changes. We got nothing on him right now.

The troll in me loves the idea but the "fair and balanced" version of me says it's either going to be too shit or too good for it to be worth making the change. Better to just keep it safe and make it a standard meter building assist.

 

[Azure J]

Mighty Speech assist is treading the fine line between "Not sure if troll" and Koryu mode.

 

[Karsticles]

I have to admit. The troll in me loves the idea of it, but you really can't make it too good or people will simply become sick of it. It's better to make it garbage than make it too good.

Just make it equal how much meter you get by spamming Morrigan/Frank/Ammy assist for 11 seconds.

It needs to generate meter on a different standard, for two reasons:
1) It's vulnerable the entire time.
2) You can only call an assist once per combo.

So it can potentially generate more meter in a combo, but it's less useful in the neutral.

*SIGH* fine for 15 frame meter gain.

Also what about my MODOK change. I think that's a solid buff.

What MODOK change? And not every character needs a lot of changes. I consider MODOK to be like Wolverine: almost perfect.

M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
*Big Barrier now negates high priority projectiles.
*Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox extended lower slightly.

Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, b.H

Mighty Speech assist is treading the fine line between "Not sure if troll" and Koryu mode.

Just wait until you see my Haggar changes.

 

[Frantic]

Maybe make it so MODOK isn't completely screwed when trying to upback without it being superjump upback.

 

[Karsticles]

Maybe make it so MODOK isn't completely screwed when trying to upback without it being superjump upback.

How? And I'm not set on this; MODOK is the king of space control. Like Dormammu, it's dangerous to give him easy outs.

 

[Dahbomb]

What MODOK change? And not every character needs a lot of changes. I consider MODOK to be like Wolverine: almost perfect.

Rescaled Hyper Psionic Blaster so at base level it does more damage and it only needs 7 levels to reach max damage.

I don't know how you can make MODOK up back. It's just the design of his character unfortunately. If that could be fixed I would definitely recommend it.

 

[Frantic]

How? And I'm not set on this; MODOK is the king of space control. Like Dormammu, it's dangerous to give him easy outs.

Well, he's got the 11 prejump frames(since his jump is also his flight) compared to everyone else's 4 prejump frames.

At least that's what I've seen from MODOK players. I have no idea if it's true or not.

 

[Karsticles]

Rescaled Hyper Psionic Blaster so at base level it does more damage and it only needs 7 levels to reach max damage.

Give me numbers.

 

[Dahbomb]

Give me numbers.

0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)

 

[GuardianE]

It needs to generate meter on a different standard, for two reasons:
1) It's vulnerable the entire time.
2) You can only call an assist once per combo.

So it can potentially generate more meter in a combo, but it's less useful in the neutral.

Couldn't those balance out? And the fact that Thor is out there the entire time limits combo extension/additional meter gain through combo extension/THC and DHC opportunies also makes it unique.

Another problem is that teleport characters will be able to defend Thor pretty well by simply teleporting to the other side, and backing away, making most moves whiff since they have to face the point character.

Also, corner carry combos can potentially lead to Thor being literally unpunishable. Start combo in one corner, call Thor, corner carry, finish combo in other corner. We know that most Specials and Hypers have a limit to how far they can hit off screen.

Well, he's got the 11 prejump frames(since his jump is also his flight) compared to everyone else's 4 prejump frames.

At least that's what I've seen from MODOK players. I have no idea if it's true or not.

He can block while flying. I'd say that's a fair trade.

 

[Dahbomb]

Another problem is that teleport characters will be able to defend Thor pretty well by simply teleporting to the other side, and backing away, making most a lot of moves whiff since they have to face the point character.

Also, corner carry combos can potentially lead to Thor being literally unpunishable. Start combo in one corner, call Thor, corner carry, finish combo in other corner. We know that most Specials and Hypers have a limit to how far they can hit off screen.

Yeah this sort of stuff is why I am super iffy on this assist. If you can combo in a certain way, Thor would be off screen and still building meter for you. So you are stuck in a corner taking pressure while Thor is on the opposite side of the screen building meter.

MODOK players are usually complaining about his normals particularly when it comes to hit confirmations. I think one of his Ls or his Ms have a really bad hit box but I don't know which.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Make it so that the point character doesn't build meter during the mighty speech assist if we're gonna entertain Karst making the assists whatever he feels like.

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73049866]Make it so that the point character doesn't build meter during the mighty speech assist if we're gonna entertain Karst making the assists whatever he feels like.[/QUOTE]
And this brings me back to "if you nerf it it becomes garbage but if you don't it becomes too good".

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Yeah this sort of stuff is why I am super iffy on this assist. If you can combo in a certain way, Thor would be off screen and still building meter for you. So you are stuck in a corner taking pressure while Thor is on the opposite side of the screen building meter.

MODOK players are usually complaining about his normals particularly when it comes to hit confirmations. I think one of his Ls or his Ms have a really bad hit box but I don't know which.

Cr. L, some characters can duck it

 

["God's Beard!"]

I think with Magneto you should be able to hold down the button during attraction and use the right stick to move your opponent around.

 

[Karsticles]

0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)

Added.

Couldn't those balance out? And the fact that Thor is out there the entire time limits combo extension/additional meter gain through combo extension/THC and DHC opportunies also makes it unique.

Another problem is that teleport characters will be able to defend Thor pretty well by simply teleporting to the other side, and backing away, making most moves whiff since they have to face the point character.

Also, corner carry combos can potentially lead to Thor being literally unpunishable. Start combo in one corner, call Thor, corner carry, finish combo in other corner. We know that most Specials and Hypers have a limit to how far they can hit off screen.




He can block while flying. I'd say that's a fair trade.

Don't forget that calling Thor means not calling any other assists. So if you call Thor and then teleport, for the next 660 frames you are stuck trying to open the opponent up alone.

Why does Mighty Speech even need to be an assist? Sounds dumb.

Just as dumb as any other meter building assist, except this one has troll-liciousness written all over it.

 

[Professor Beef]

Why does Mighty Speech even need to be an assist? Sounds dumb.

You are so serious. Marvel games are filled with fun and weird things. You once wanted fun things in this game. You went from "Double Shuma-Gorath's size!" to "Hey, we're supposed to be fixing this game - no unneeded changes. Stop imposing what you want on the game." You are one of the most ethically inconsistent people I have ever met.

Are the context of those two statements even the same, though?

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73051016]I think with Magneto you should be able to hold down the button during attraction and use the right stick to move your opponent around.[/QUOTE]
Haha, so only players benefit

 

[GuardianE]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73051016]I think with Magneto you should be able to hold down the button during attraction and use the right stick to move your opponent around.[/QUOTE]

Dark Phoenix should be able to use her telepathic powers to convince her opponents to kill themselves.

 

[Karsticles]

Are the context of those two statements even the same, though?

Yes.

 

[Professor Beef]

Viewtiful Joe should be able to freely slow the match down by holding L1.

 

[Karsticles]

Viewtiful Joe should be able to freely slow the match down by holding L1.

That's ridiculous. It should cost meter per frame! I actually wish they would have done this with him, it would have been awesome. Maybe for MvC4.

 

["God's Beard!"]

You are so serious. Marvel games are filled with fun and weird things. You once wanted fun things in this game. You went from "Double Shuma-Gorath's size!" to "Hey, we're supposed to be fixing this game - no unneeded changes. Stop imposing what you want on the game." You are one of the most ethically inconsistent people I have ever met.

I've been beaten down by the panel of judges and become the man I hated. That said, those aren't inconsistent things. Shuma's size is crucial.

If I won the make a change contest at Capcom, and I got to fix only one thing in Marvel with all of the FGC looking on, wondering if I'd fix TACs or incoming mixups or Vergil, you know what I'd do?

I'd make Shuma Gorath the size of Sentinel.

 

[Dahbomb]

Cr. L, some characters can duck it

Yeah that's the one. He should have that lower hit box on it buffed some how.