Jaime: "Your father was ordering the destruction of King's Landing, killing a million innocent people. I had to stop him."
Dany: "Yeah, you were right."
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Dany: "Yeah, you were right."
Red Arremer
Member
We're talking about a show where armies are now able to utilize warp technology. Remember how the Unsullied were in the Westerlands and the Dothraki in the Reach, and how they both showed up in King's Landing? Remember how Dany was able to ride her dragons from the Reach to the Wall to King's Landing in the span of what, 2 episodes?
Time and space mean absolutely nothing in Game of Thrones anymore.
cj_iwakura
Member
They just dont show anyone traveling anymore 🙄
That's not true, though. At no point does any character say that Cercei can't be trusted. Oh, sure, Tyrion says to expect a trap, but that was in reference to an ambush. The plan to capture a wight was based on trusting Cercei and they never doubted her word for a second.
Even when Jon confesses to his alliance with Dany, he's berated for not lying. Tyrion doesn't suspect Cercei is lying, just that Jon should have.
Furthermore, no one should have believed that Cercei trusts Jon. Everyone knows he's an oathbreaker. But no one questions her logic.
The last half of the season was about trusting Cercei. A chuck of the last episode was about trusting Jon. And none of it makes a lick of sense.
If Cercei is such a threat that she could ruin their chances in the Great War, they should have killed her. Dany was right in front of her with a massive dragon. It would have been a just kill to neutralize an enemy who could lead to the death of everyone in Westeros. But no one acts rationally anymore. People do what the plot tells them to do, logic be damned.
Is it a plot hole to ignore established, in-universe logic? Or just terrible writing? Doesn't really matter what it's called, the results are the same.
Mallory hinted in a podcast yesterday that they might do Harry Potter next. I'd be giddy if they go through those books. At least the first seven.
Then Arya takes his face and goes back to King's Landing to kill Cersei, because it isn't like they've left anything for her to do in Winterfell.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Jaime will be having a lot of reunion in the north
Poor GRIMES
Banned
lol bran will be like
"thank you jaime, if you didn't almost kill me and turn me into a cripple I would have never became the Three Eyed Raven"
BuggyDClown
Member
Im okay with this.
More likely, Cersei gets turned on by the mercenaries she hires and they sack Kings Landing and ravage the Seven Kingdoms when the dead come. That's just my opinion based on how historically trustworthy mercenaries are. If I were a merc with no morals, I'd take everything I could that wasn't bolted down and flee to Essos.
Alternatively, they just join Dany after being paid the coin and they see 2 dragons. I mean the Golden Company is famous for never breaking a contract, but they do in the books under extraordinary circumstances. That hasn't happened in the show yet, so I feel fairly confident guessing they will in some grand fashion.
demosthenes
Member
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Totally forgot about him.
I'm kinda seeing the scenario already. The company sacks Kings Landing unless Cersei surrenders. Jaime hears of it and heads back to Kings Landing to convince Cersei to surrent and its Aerys part 2 again. Only this time Jaime will not be surviving
And just forget the fact that he tried to murder her Night King style?
beau_beaumont
Member
He was just trying to show her his famous jousting skills. Girls love a good tourney champion.
My roommate has started to watch GOT. She's binged 3 straight seasons in less than a week. She's also preemptively spoiled herself on most of the characters and events by reading the wiki and other articles online but she still mispronounces nearly every characters' name and misunderstands their intelligence and motivations to the point where she was wondering if Jamie knows Cersei's kids are his or not. I refuse to discuss the show with her and can't even be in the same room with her when she's watching because she says the stupidest stuff, while mispronouncing the names.
I had a hard time deciding whether to post in this thread or the 'stupid stuff your roommate says' thread.
I had a hard time deciding whether to post in this thread or the 'stupid stuff your roommate says' thread.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I don't understand why people do this.
Right but even if it takes a certain amount of time to mobilize Lannister forces, that's still sooner than the alternative Dany proposed which was don't do anything until I return South.
It is a bluff without meaning.
It was in the heat of battle!
And now he shows that he will honour his word!
And he will utter this line: 'Better be a dad-killer fucker then a nephew fucker, eyyy ooo'
Oh please. Dany rode alone and on Dragonback, which is significantly faster than riding a horse. Cat also made it from Winterfell to King's Landing between two episodes, having left way after the rest of the family and arriving before them. Maybe if people didn't measure every single travel by the standard set by a fat king and his entourage of a couple hundred people travelling with a snail's pace we wouldn't have this tired and beaten meme. Damaged wagons, impassible fords, Arya running away for a couple days, stalling the whole thing...it was even called out in universe for how abysmally slow they moved.
Operations
Member
So Daenerys didn't eat or drink anything for 28 hours straight?
Yeah. Like nobody does in fiction. Also, nobody shits and pisses.
Ffs, I hate this kind of stupid message board nitpicking.
Movies and TV shows arw NOT reality. Just in case you didnt noticed.
That image has a ton of problem but primarily the size of Westeros.
In this season at the Inn at the Crossroads we see two experienced travellers say it is 200 miles to Kings Landing. This is in line with many other distances in the show. Using that as the primary all the distances in that image are halved.
All these maps of Westeros scale themselves off the Wall being 300 miles long but we are also told the wall is 700ft high but clearly it isn't so why take the length as accurate?
In this season at the Inn at the Crossroads we see two experienced travellers say it is 200 miles to Kings Landing. This is in line with many other distances in the show. Using that as the primary all the distances in that image are halved.
All these maps of Westeros scale themselves off the Wall being 300 miles long but we are also told the wall is 700ft high but clearly it isn't so why take the length as accurate?
Nitpicking is silly but that image is bad too.
Yep Daenerys didn't eat or drink anything for over a day. She also knew exactly where Eastwatch was, despite having never been there before, and luckily didn't overshoot or get lost over the Bite where no obvious landmarks existed in open water. I guess she looked at her table a bunch or the sun was always up even though it took over a day.
Maybe her dragons are blessed with a sense of cardinal direction, in addition to being able to fly 90km/h based on "runnig humans" in past episodes.
Moving on.
The average speed of a raven of 80km/h, as per the original Reddit post, is based on the average speed of a homing pigeon, but of distances of 640km, so about a quarter of the distance to Dragonstone, meaning the raven is keeping the same pace on a trip 4x as long. Also it's not resting apparently despite the longest recorded flight being 1800 km.
Umm what else?
Oh yeah Gendry, a smith from a tropical climate, can run for 5-8 hours in freezing alpine conditions he is unused to after a day of hiking and fighting.
Yep, this all works. You couldn't just do some fairy basic things like, have the squad taken ravens with them (you know, like how Mormont taught Jon to do), or have Daenerys wait at the Wall in the first place. Honestly it was a problem you could write around.
Yep Daenerys didn't eat or drink anything for over a day. She also knew exactly where Eastwatch was, despite having never been there before, and luckily didn't overshoot or get lost over the Bite where no obvious landmarks existed in open water. I guess she looked at her table a bunch or the sun was always up even though it took over a day.
Maybe her dragons are blessed with a sense of cardinal direction, in addition to being able to fly 90km/h based on "runnig humans" in past episodes.
Moving on.
The average speed of a raven of 80km/h, as per the original Reddit post, is based on the average speed of a homing pigeon, but of distances of 640km, so about a quarter of the distance to Dragonstone, meaning the raven is keeping the same pace on a trip 4x as long. Also it's not resting apparently despite the longest recorded flight being 1800 km.
Umm what else?
Oh yeah Gendry, a smith from a tropical climate, can run for 5-8 hours in freezing alpine conditions he is unused to after a day of hiking and fighting.
Yep, this all works. You couldn't just do some fairy basic things like, have the squad taken ravens with them (you know, like how Mormont taught Jon to do), or have Daenerys wait at the Wall in the first place. Honestly it was a problem you could write around.
dead souls
Member
You're absolutely right that shows aren't reality, but when the implausibilities really start to bother me then I know I'm watching a bad show.
Take 24 for example--basically everything that happens on the show is completely unrealistic but it only bothered me in the bad seasons. When a show is working most of the unrealistic stuff can be glossed over since I'm having a good time watching it.
Most of GoT this season felt like people were teleporting all over the world map. It was absurd.
Tywin Lannister did.
Pagusas
Elden Member
What do you mean the wall isn't 700ft? It's basically 2 statue of liberties, which isn't that tall in person, compare that to all the shots we see of the wall and it does indeed look 700ft tall.
One World Trade Center is 1776 ft as comparison. The wall in the show looks like it would be a bit more than half it size.
The continuity errors and instant transmission bs in this show is way beyond nitpicking it's not even funny.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
what about sansa saying she hasn't heard from jon in weeks?
But are these maps better or worse than the Mercator projection map of Earth?
The Wall is much smaller than 700ft at Castle Black. It isn't even really close. Probably somewhere around 400ft just on visuals. Even in various official book artwork the Wall is nowhere close to the advertised height, you only need to look at the stair cases.
Now you say this is all this is just conjecture, it looks 700ft to me! Ok, let's use physics.
https://youtu.be/WtvnTsOsJDk?t=2m35s
The Night's Watch chuck barrels off the top of the wall. On that video they launch around 2:46 and land at 2:50, let's call it 5 seconds. And let's assume no drag and the barrels don't reach their terminal velocity. And let's assume gravity is the same as earth for convenience.
Distance = 0.5*g*time^2 gives 123 meters, converted to feet is right around 400ft.
So even in the best case scenario the wall is well short on height.
Now maybe the cuts removed part of the fall, but we know they didn't because just before the barrels fall a Brother is sent flying to the bottom via a Giant's arrow, the time for this man to fall from top to bottom is again is around 5 seconds.
Operations
Member
Hey, I didn't came up up with that stupid image trying to justify the idiocy in the first place. I accept it as as the piece of fiction it is, but when someone tries to justify the silliness with a laughable attempt of accuracy then it's just prime for criticism.
Pretty much.
Operations
Member
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Operations
Member
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Why do people spend time devising book theories that George has put zero thought into?
Because not everyone is as allergic to spoilers as the most hysterically spoiler-fearful people. Knowing stuff beforehand doesn't necessarily affect a lot of people's enjoyment of entertainment. Like, it's almost impossible not to know who Vader is in Star Wars in this day & age. Doesn't stop people from falling in love with Star Wars when they first see it.
Reading some facts/tidbits about something is very different from actually seeing things unfold in front of your eyes with great production values, acting, music & the whole shebang.
True enough. Though they two situations seem pretty different to me. Theories, in book and show, are a fun way to develop a deeper understanding of the world and it's inhabitants. Secret motivations and hidden agendas fill in the blanks to an already rich text.
This raven stuff is just trying to hand wave a logical fallacy. It doesn't give a deeper understanding of the world, just excuses bad writing. It's possible to say "the writer made a mistake" and still like a story.
chicken_pasta
Banned
I refuse to believe crows can sustain that 80km/h speed for that long.
WrenchNinja
Member
This is the book thread. Books are for nerds.
Daenerys shat a good deal in the last book.
So you don't want to read my Euron = Daario = Moonboy theory?
Personally I don't think it is a logical fallacy. People just don't seem to have grasp that the TV show has scaled down Westeros. Going out of the way to justify a scenario based on a map with a scale George never put any thought into is pretty dumb though.
But people do it for the books too, talking about marching distances etc. My general philosophy with the books is that all numbers are bullshit.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
It's just analysing whether that plot makes sense. I mean there isn't really any foreshadowing this season so we really have nothing to talk about ¯_(ツ
_/¯ Game of Thrones is built on twist after twist, with reactions depending on the viewer seeing the twist..you aren't supposed to know Ned Stark dies. Star Wars is a very basic A to B story, and while the Vader twist makes it more interesting, it's more interesting to see Luke's reaction.
This is true lol.
It's an extreme logical fallacy and it's one of the big reasons this season has felt uneven. On the other hand...the numbers are a little ridiculous. The Wall is 700 ft and Dany's Pyramid in Meereen is 800 ft. That's insane lol.
You mean EDM? That theory has been around since A Clash of Kings.