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[HRK69]

What the heck are you talking about? Are you seriously comparing Steam's system to something essential? LOL
Literally in my post I said that I avoid it every time I can. It's obvious that if a great game is available only there I still want to support the developers.
Imagine being a fanboy and unable to criticize something just because you use it.

Yeah, you clearly not getting it.

Complaining that Steam requires a launcher is like complaining that Netflix requires an app or website. It’s literally the platform delivering what you paid for

If you don’t like Steam, don’t use it. But acting like it’s some unnecessary burden while still relying on it when needed is just absolutely fucking hilarious

 

[daxgame]

Yeah, you clearly not getting it.

Complaining that Steam requires a launcher is like complaining that Netflix requires an app or website. It’s literally the platform delivering what you paid for

If you don’t like Steam, don’t use it. But acting like it’s some unnecessary burden while still relying on it when needed is just absolutely fucking hilarious

Netflix is a streaming app so it has literally nothing to do with this, and I pay for the single game and not the platform - but either way, Steam as a store offers a lot of great functionalities (filters, recos, etc). Regarding the launcher, once again, I'm talking about a streamlined way to have it optional.
And I already explained by now 3 times when&why I "rely on it" but hey, keep playing your game.

Makes perfect sense when you look at the number of games on Steam vs GOG. You tell me why that is the case then.

I don't get the point here. There are way more games on Steam because the platform has a much bigger userbase. After all, it also launched way before than GOG and the Epic Store.
What is the point? What does this have to do with the launcher?

The phrase you quoted was meant to say that the launcher is not necessary, a single, digital, store point is what changed everything and the main reason for Steam's success. It was absolutely a great idea, even though I prefer buying physical, in general.
Are you suggesting that if Steam launched with the option to make the launcher optional it wouldn't have been so successful?

 

[Topher]

I don't get the point here. There are way more games on Steam because the platform has a much bigger userbase. After all, it also launched way before than GOG and the Epic Store.
What is the point? What does this have to do with the launcher?

The phrase you quoted was meant to say that the launcher is not necessary, a single, digital, store point is what changed everything and the main reason for Steam's success. It was absolutely a great idea, even though I prefer buying physical, in general.
Are you suggesting that if Steam launched with the option to make the launcher optional it wouldn't have been so successful?

On Steam, at the point of download, one must be logged into the software on that PC. So that provides a layer of protection against piracy that GOG simply doesn't have. That's why GOG doesn't get the games or if it does then it is usually some time after launch. Publishers do not like the freedom GOG provides due to fear of piracy. That's my understanding anyway. If you disagree then that is fine, but my assertion is that Steam wouldn't have the support it does without protections in place and GOG is missing that.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Steam is by far the biggest and best gaming platform ever and will continue to grow.

 

[daxgame]

On Steam, at the point of download, one must be logged into the software on that PC. So that provides a layer of protection against piracy that GOG simply doesn't have. That's why GOG doesn't get the games or if it does then it is usually some time after launch. Publishers do not like the freedom GOG provides due to fear of piracy. That's my understanding anyway. If you disagree then that is fine, but my assertion is that Steam wouldn't have the support it does without protections in place and GOG is missing that.

Sure, I agree with you, that's also playing a part.
My point and last post on the matter, was merely that from a customer's perspective, so the topic of the thread, it's hard for me to agree that "they put customers at the forefront of every decision". They still do things which I like (I mentioned a few previously).

 

[bender]

On Steam, at the point of download, one must be logged into the software on that PC. So that provides a layer of protection against piracy that GOG simply doesn't have. That's why GOG doesn't get the games or if it does then it is usually some time after launch. Publishers do not like the freedom GOG provides due to fear of piracy. That's my understanding anyway. If you disagree then that is fine, but my assertion is that Steam wouldn't have the support it does without protections in place and GOG is missing that.

I'd say that's a layer of protection that GoG doesn't want. If GoG's userbase were that of Steams, those publisher fears would probably go away and you wouldn't see other issues more common to GoG (games not being patched in a timely manner).

 

[KyoZz]

Many people here seem to forget that Valve will never totally close your account. The only exception is if you are posting extreme images like child abuse or murder, your account will then be deleted and you will lose everything.

Otherwise, you will be banned from multiplayer (at the discretion of the publisher concerned, as Valve makes no decisions about this except for its own games) or your right to post on community-related topics may also be revoked. But you won't lose your games or access to your account.

 

[Topher]

Sure, I agree with you, that's also playing a part.
My point and last post on the matter, was merely that from a customer's perspective, so the topic of the thread, it's hard for me to agree that "they put customers at the forefront of every decision". They still do things which I like (I mentioned a few previously).

That's fair.

I'd say that's a layer of protection that GoG doesn't want. If GoG's userbase were that of Steams, those publisher fears would probably go away and you wouldn't see other issues more common to GoG (games not being patched in a timely manner).

GOG definitely doesn't want that. That's the underlying principle of their store. Suggesting publisher's fears are unwarranted may very well be valid, but I guess they just don't see it that way.

 

[bender]

GOG definitely doesn't want that. That's the underlying principle of their store. Suggesting publisher's fears are unwarranted may very well be valid, but I guess they just don't see it that way.

I'm just saying that the sales potential would outweigh the fears in that hypothetical.

GoG's evolution from their humble beginnings of selling inexpensive, DRM-free games probably means that isn't a sustainable practice as they now sell current games, have a launcher in Galaxy, and have raised community kerfuffle around DRM with the likes of the modern Hitman games (always connected games were always going to be a challenge for thee DRM-free stance).

 

[pudel]

GoG's evolution from their humble beginnings of selling inexpensive, DRM-free games probably means that isn't a sustainable practice as they now sell current games, have a launcher in Galaxy, and have raised community kerfuffle around DRM with the likes of the modern Hitman games (always connected games were always going to be a challenge for thee DRM-free stance).

Thats all great developments (except Hitman). The galaxy launcher is optional for everyone who wants extra "services" or simply more convenience while people like me can still grab only the game files and be done with it. Its....perfection! Hope they can stick to it. The store barely makes a coin for CDPR.

 

[Parazels]

if you navigate the local files, many have a "Steam-less" executable in their folder.

I'm sorry, but soon you will no longer troubleshoot your personal calculator, because Steam OS migrates on consoles, where everything just works!

 

[Topher]

I'm just saying that the sales potential would outweigh the fears in that hypothetical.

GoG's evolution from their humble beginnings of selling inexpensive, DRM-free games probably means that isn't a sustainable practice as they now sell current games, have a launcher in Galaxy, and have raised community kerfuffle around DRM with the likes of the modern Hitman games (always connected games were always going to be a challenge for thee DRM-free stance).

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying, but just seems like publishers are the ones needing convincing.

 

[Kataploom]

Probably Microsoft's cultists who'd die to see them acquire Valve.

I don't even think those exist at all

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying, but just seems like publishers are the ones needing convincing.

Steam allows games with Denuvo while GOG don't.
DRM won. Gamers themselves are whining when an online game doesn't have kernel level anti cheat.

 

[Lucie Goosey]

Steam is good but if they really were players first, they'd sell games and not licenses.

This

 

[Topher]

Steam allows games with Denuvo while GOG don't.
DRM won. Gamers themselves are whining when an online game doesn't have kernel level anti cheat.

Gamers don't like cheaters.

 

[ArtHands]

Steam is growing because of China, let's not get confused.

Why is Steam the only one platform who is growing because of China?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Steam is good but if they really were players first, they'd sell games and not licenses.

Who sells games?

No, seriously. Legally who sells games?

I am sure it would be great if they sell games, but if legal grounds for this doesn't exist then how do you even sell it?

 

[Topher]

Who sells games?

No, seriously. Legally who sells games?

I am sure it would be great if they sell games, but if legal grounds for this doesn't exist then how do you even sell it?

Everyone buy's licenses to games. Even on GOG.

 

[Paasei]

And then you have companies like EA and Ubitrash forcing their garbage digital platforms on everyone.

I've never met a single person who said, "Oh wow, I can't wait to buy their games on their platform!"

I respect the attempt, but it’s completely out of touch with reality

As much as I dislike those platforms, I do understand why people get it on their platforms.

Why? Well, if I buy an EA/Ubi game on Steam, I still need their platform to run it. That’s 2 platforms to run (essentially DRM) for just 2 game. That’s too much for me.

I really like Steam, simply because it was the first to open a digital store where you are not fucked over with retarded prices, discounts and a good customer service. All its other features don’t interest me so much. Maybe the workshop.

If I can play any PC game without any platform up and running, I’d do that. Otherwise as few as possible.

Edit: forgot to mention I solved that platform issue by simply not buying games that require more than 1 platform to run.

 

[Pandawan]

Actually I find Steam to be more and more anti-consumer pro-developers and publishers. This healine sounds like an out of touch statement to me after my recent experiences with Steam.

- These mandatory 60GB, or even 110GB, patches are insane! PlayStation has optional patches, but on Steam the "Play" button just changes to "Update" when there is an update. I recently wanted to play KCD2, clicked on the game's shortcut, Steam opened and started downloading the damn 60GB patch. I had to wait an hour and a half at my speed to play the game.

- This patch broke the game. Literally softlocked the quest for me. And with these mandatory patches you can't downgrade, you can't uninstall the patch. There was a quest where you had to find Goatskin, and I saved last time precisely before I talked to him, failed the dialogue and just quit for the day. After the patch, after waiting, I turn on the game and there is no fucking Goatskin. I googled it and many people say that yes, it disappeared after the patch and thus softlocked the quest. Waiting for a fix. Patch you ass!!!

-Another example. I wanted to play GTA. I hit the shortcut, then Steam started loading, then Steam started its update, I waited for Steam to update, then the game got an update (this time a small one, but still), I waited, then the f-ing Rockstar launcher started loading, I waited, then the f-ing Rockstar launcher started its own update, I waited. It took me maybe 3 minutes for the game to actually start loading

"we put customers at the forefront of every decision" - bullshit!

I understand that they didn't really have much of a choice, Rockstar is forcing their stupid launcher, but it's still definitely an anti-consumer, pro-publisher choice.

Or how people in countries without PSN support can no longer buy Sony's games on Steam, when before they used to.

it is so dishonest to say such words after the customer experience is constantly suffering because of your pro-publisher anti consumer choices

Be f-ing honest, say: "Steam continues to grow because there is infinite amount of chinese and Steam becomes more and more popular in China after Black Myth Wukong (and other chinese games) sucess." "And about customers experince: we took a shit and pissed on that, who cares about customer expirience, LOL."

 

[Pandawan]

You also have to have enough free space on your drive to play the game if there is an update. And it requires a lot of space. If there is a 110gb patch you have to have additional 100 gb free space (additional to those 100gb the game already takes). You wanted to play the game, saw there is an update and now instead of playing you look at your drive and search for something you can delete. While you don't even want this f-ing patch, you just want to play.

And this f-ing Stalker 2 back in Novemnber also was updated every few days. Mot that big, a few gb patches, but still every few days i had to wait (and sometimes delete something because somehow 10 gb patch require me to free 30 gb space to start downloading)

Booting up games on Steam became so unpleasant experience (with this mandatory huge updates and third party launchers) that a lot of times i just straight up think: maybe to play, then think about how i may have to experience all this bullshit again and just choose to do something else.

 

[HRK69]

Actually I find Steam to be more and more anti-consumer pro-developers and publishers. This healine sounds like an out of touch statement to me after my recent experiences with Steam.

- These mandatory 60GB, or even 110GB, patches are insane! PlayStation has optional patches, but on Steam the "Play" button just changes to "Update" when there is an update. I recently wanted to play KCD2, clicked on the game's shortcut, Steam opened and started downloading the damn 60GB patch. I had to wait an hour and a half at my speed to play the game.

- This patch broke the game. Literally softlocked the quest for me. And with these mandatory patches you can't downgrade, you can't uninstall the patch. There was a quest where you had to find Goatskin, and I saved last time precisely before I talked to him, failed the dialogue and just quit for the day. After the patch, after waiting, I turn on the game and there is no fucking Goatskin. I googled it and many people say that yes, it disappeared after the patch and thus softlocked the quest. Waiting for a fix. Patch you ass!!!

-Another example. I wanted to play GTA. I hit the shortcut, then Steam started loading, then Steam started its update, I waited for Steam to update, then the game got an update (this time a small one, but still), I waited, then the f-ing Rockstar launcher started loading, I waited, then the f-ing Rockstar launcher started its own update, I waited. It took me maybe 3 minutes for the game to actually start loading

"we put customers at the forefront of every decision" - bullshit!

I understand that they didn't really have much of a choice, Rockstar is forcing their stupid launcher, but it's still definitely an anti-consumer, pro-publisher choice.

Or how people in countries without PSN support can no longer buy Sony's games on Steam, when before they used to.

it is so dishonest to say such words after the customer experience is constantly suffering because your pro-publisher anti consumer choices

Be f-ing honest, say: "Steam continues to grow because there is infinite amount of chinese and Steam becomes more and more popular in China after Black Myth Wukong (and other chinese games) sucess." "And about customers experince: we took a shit an pissed on that, who cares about customer expirience, LOL."

Is this a copy-pasta?

 

[pudel]

Pandawan

Stop using shortcuts to start yr game when you know there could be an update. Hard drive space was/is always a thing you need to look out for yrself on a PC (think about what would be the alternative ). And this PSN/region lock thing was Sony's decision. Ask them about this glorious move.

btw, is there still a region lock in place even so the PSN login is now optional?

 

[Pandawan]

Is this a copy-pasta?

Nah, this is my butthurt

 

[Pandawan]

Pandawan

Stop using shortcuts to start yr game when you know there could be an update. Hard drive space was/is always a thing you need to look out for yrself on a PC (think about what would be the alternative ). And this PSN/region lock thing was Sony's decision. Ask them about this glorious move.

It is not about shortcuts. If you open Steam there is still a requred mandatory update. I sayd it: On steam Play Button changes with Update button if there is an update. Read.

And about that it is Rockstars/Sony's decision about their launchers i also sayd that it may be the case, but no matter whos decision it is - it is still an anti customer choise! And they say they put customers on forefront. This is bullshit statement. They put relations with Sony and Rockstar at the forefront.

And about disk space sorry but your are *forbidden word*. THE PROBLEM IS AN UPDATE. F-ing update. I already freed 100gb to download the game. And now Steam forces me to free ANOTHER 100 GB to download an update. On playstation this is not a problem. On playstation patches are optional. If you don't have a free space to download and update you don't even want you ARE NOT FORCED TO DO THIS. And on Steam you do. You are forced to free space to down;oad an update YOU DON'T WANT AND DON'T NEED. YOU just want to play the game you already downloaded and played yesterday but instead you have to do this nonsense to regain the ability to play the game you already played yesterday.

 

[pudel]

It is not about shortcuts. If you open Steam there is still a requred mandatory update. I sayd it: On steam Play Button changes with Update button if there is an update. Read.

But you can circumvent this update when you dont want it (-> tell steam you are offline). But yeah I agree...a manual update option would be even better.

 

[Pandawan]

But you can circumvent this update when you dont want it (-> tell steam you are offline). But yeah I agree...a manual update option would be even better.

Genious decision. Lets play a game offline now. What will you recommend me next? Play the f-ing cracked game? I tell you: there is problem. you tell me: go circumvent it. We speak as if the situation that Steam will solve its anti-customer problems is absolutely impossible. Again ON PLAYSTATION IS IS NOT A PROBLEM! There is optional updates on PS.

This is Steam's problem. And you tell me this is my problem. While we speak about Steam's statement how they put customers on the forefront. You just staight up contradicts this statement. You tell me: Steam put their problems in customers hands, go go circumvent it.

I apologize, I'm a little angry, this situation is pissing me off. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

[pudel]

I tell you: there i problem. you tell me: go circumvent it.

Crazy shit, huh!

 

[Pandawan]

Crazy shit, huh!

Pfff. You just don't get it. It is not a problem to circumvent it. The problem is this platform creates inconviences that can easily be solved. They create innesesary inconveniences for the customers and then they make a statement how they put customer experience on the forefront. We speak about that.

Of course i can circumvent it. I can play oflline. I can download the game somewhere else. I can not play it at all. And millions other options i have. But is Steam really putting their customers at the forefront? I don't think so. They clearly create unnesesary inconveniences.

 

[ArtHands]

We have reached the point where we have people blaming 3rd party publishers' decision to use their launchers or region-lock their games onto Steam. I feel like that adds on to how good Steam is because we have run out of solid argument here, so people start using ones that make no sense.

 

[Pandawan]

Just imagine this analogy. You come to a store, at the entrance they shove a shit in your face and say: now please come in, enjoy your shoping, we are glad to see you and we put the customers at the forefront!

I am outraged. I say: Why do you get people dunked in shit? Other stores don't do that! You don't have to do that, why do you do it?

And you answer me: Don't like it? Go circumvent it!!!!! You can bend over! You can squat down and enter the store in a half-squat. You can duck! You can crawl. Then you won't get shit all over yourself. Why you don't like it? It perfectly OK to crawl when you enter the shop. It is perfectly OK to free space to reaquire the ability to play the game you played fine yesterday, it is perfectly OK to play offline to not download patches.

"We put our customers at the forefront! We give them a lot of options to circumvent our shit!"
"But maybe you just stop shit on your customers?"
"And Steam defenders throws me out of the window"

 

[Donkusei]

It still doesn't provide the most important thing: physical games (they could). And I mean a real physical system, not something with a code to add the game to your library inside. They could make a system that would work pretty much like the PS and Xbox consoles.

So... "it continues to grow", maybe, not a good news for me.

 

[Topher]

Just imagine this analogy. You come to a store, at the entrance they shove a shit in your face and say: now please come in, enjoy your shoping, we are glad to see you and we put the customers at the forefront!

I am outraged. I say: Why do you get people dunked in shit? Other stores don't do that! You don't have to do that, why do you do it?

And you answer me: Don't like it? Go circumvent it!!!!! You can bend over! You can squat down and enter the store in a half-squat. You can duck! You can crawl. Then you won't get shit all over yourself. Why you don't like it? It perfectly OK to crawl when you enter the shop. It is perfectly OK to free space to reaquire the ability to play the game you played fine yesterday, it is perfectly OK to play offline to not download patches.

"We put our customers at the forefront! We give them a lot of options to circumvent our shit!"
"But maybe you just stop shit on your customers?"
"And Steam defenders throws me out of the window"

You are posting the same shit over and over again. I think we get it.

 

[Hudo]

It would significantly improve the quality of life if Valve dictated that games on Steam cannot have a separate launcher. I literally stopped buying Ubisoft games because of this I would be otherwise interested in. Steam itself is already the launcher and I am only willing to deal with one at a time. Having a launcher (Steam) to launch another launcher is just fucking bullshit. Same with the Rockstar launcher.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Just imagine this analogy. You come to a store, at the entrance they shove a shit in your face and say: now please come in, enjoy your shoping, we are glad to see you and we put the customers at the forefront!

I am outraged. I say: Why do you get people dunked in shit? Other stores don't do that! You don't have to do that, why do you do it?

And you answer me: Don't like it? Go circumvent it!!!!! You can bend over! You can squat down and enter the store in a half-squat. You can duck! You can crawl. Then you won't get shit all over yourself. Why you don't like it? It perfectly OK to crawl when you enter the shop. It is perfectly OK to free space to reaquire the ability to play the game you played fine yesterday, it is perfectly OK to play offline to not download patches.

"We put our customers at the forefront! We give them a lot of options to circumvent our shit!"
"But maybe you just stop shit on your customers?"
"And Steam defenders throws me out of the window"

 

[Minsc]

You also have to have enough free space on your drive to play the game if there is an update. And it requires a lot of space. If there is a 110gb patch you have to have additional 100 gb free space (additional to those 100gb the game already takes). You wanted to play the game, saw there is an update and now instead of playing you look at your drive and search for something you can delete. While you don't even want this f-ing patch, you just want to play.

And this f-ing Stalker 2 back in Novemnber also was updated every few days. Mot that big, a few gb patches, but still every few days i had to wait (and sometimes delete something because somehow 10 gb patch require me to free 30 gb space to start downloading)

Booting up games on Steam became so unpleasant experience (with this mandatory huge updates and third party launchers) that a lot of times i just straight up think: maybe to play, then think about how i may have to experience all this bullshit again and just choose to do something else.

Sad to say, but games being up to date is something that is straight up REQUIRED for multiplayer games, you can't have clients all on different versions, so your argument would hold no grounds had the multiplayer aspect come out, but also it's mainly your refusal to get faster internet or move, and upgrade your PC. It sucks to say it, but Steam is not for people like 10mbit internet and SSDs that run at 20MB/s. Get some gigabyte internet and nvme drives that can run at 5GB/s or faster.

 

[Topher]

Sad to say, but games being up to date is something that is straight up REQUIRED for multiplayer games, you can't have clients all on different versions, so your argument would hold no grounds had the multiplayer aspect come out, but also it's mainly your refusal to get faster internet or move, and upgrade your PC. It sucks to say it, but Steam is not for people like 10mbit internet and SSDs that run at 20MB/s. Get some gigabyte internet and nvme drives that can run at 5GB/s or faster.

Also downloading in the background while playing the game or even scheduling when updates occur are options as well. Won't help with multiplayer games, but yeah.....clearly you want to be up to date with those.

This isn't the world-ending problem it is being made out to be.

 

[Astray]

Epic fuckd up with that "exclusive" bullshit and got treated accordingly. Running around with a bag of money and buying out devs, so they dont release anywhere else just doesnt look good. Gabe never did that....in over 20 years! And the store is miles behind steam. So what do you expect is happening?

How do you propose anyone compete with Steam then? People download storefronts for the same reason they purchase consoles: To gain access to games they don't get elsewhere, not just QoL improvements and features.

Also Steam did their shitty backroom deals with major devs way back when barely anyone paid attention to Steam. Look at this 2009 quote from Brad Wardell, the CEO of Stardock, who ran a Steam competitor called Impulse:

"Another trend we have seen in the past year has been Valve’s successful work with getting Steamworks licensed as a DRM solution by major publishers. Once a game requires Steamworks, it is effectively cut off from us, which limits our content. Examples of this include THQ’s Dawn of War II, Sega’s Empire: Total War, and more recently Activision’s Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2." "The problem is that it is not practical for us to install a game that in turn requires the installation of a competitor’s store and platform in order to play it," Wardell said.

Source: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/stardock-reveals-impulse-steam-market-share-estimates

 

[Astray]

doubleposted by mistake.

 

[ArtHands]

Epic fuckd up with that "exclusive" bullshit and got treated accordingly. Running around with a bag of money and buying out devs, so they dont release anywhere else just doesnt look good. Gabe never did that....in over 20 years! And the store is miles behind steam. So what do you expect is happening?


Its just cosmetics. If you pay for it, its by yr own will....no one forces you and its not required. We can talk about TakeTwo's NBA approach or EA's Football card game instead.

Epic thought they could emulate the exclusive bs from consoles onto PC and see some success, which of course, is not what PC or competition is suppose to be. So no surprise that it didn't work.

 

[DaciaJC]

How do you propose anyone compete with Steam then? People download storefronts for the same reason they purchase consoles: To gain access to games they don't get elsewhere, not just QoL improvements and features.

Also Steam did their shitty backroom deals with major devs way back when barely anyone paid attention to Steam. Look at this 2009 quote from Brad Wardell, the CEO of Stardock, who ran a Steam competitor called Impulse:

Source: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/stardock-reveals-impulse-steam-market-share-estimates

Is that any different from a lot of games available on Steam requiring the user to install another launcher like Ubisoft Connect? How is it that Steam can accommodate these sorts of requirements but Impulse couldn't?

In fact, the story continues "This sentiment is reflected in Stardock's decision not to carry Modern Warfare 2 on Impulse." To me, that they decided not to carry MW2 implies the mere presence of Steamworks in the game wasn't an insurmountable obstacle for distribution or a form of exclusivity.