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[Omnipunctual Godot]

Lightning Returns is good. It does have a cheap vibe compared to the previous entries, the visuals are really not as good and it's overall quite rough.

Apologize to this beautiful boy.

 

[IAmRei]

one man's trash is another man's treasure,...

while i dont like FFXIII, or half part of me doesnt like FF7R, i like XV and XVI and FFT0, each to their own. No need to trash other, focus to what we like together.

I'm still wishing IX will had better days for new generations.

Speaking of which i rarely see people talking about FFT0, for me, thats substitute for real FFXIII, and consider FFT0 as XIII

 

[Platinumstorm]

Longtime ff fan.

I replayed 13 for the first time this year, and it was pretty good. 16 is as equally linear.

Ff has struggled with modern combat. Ff14, which you skipped over, is great, and it oozes ff.

Xv suffers from bad combat and a scrapped storyline.

Xvi has great combat, but it's hard to realize that greatness right away. The fights weren't difficult enough until dlc.

I do think xvi has pacing issues, just like rebirth does, but not as frustratingly bad.

 

[Allandor]

Well the mainline FF games went in a total different direction after FF xiii. Wit FF x the already got rid of the open world, but at least it was still a RPG. Ffxiii was more or less the same but the characters were quite narrow (btw, ffxii was also strange in a few things). With FF xv the completly made an action focused button smasher. The story was not really good and incomplete. "Watch the movie" is not really good option for a game that should contain the story. The characters got hard to like and in general uninteresting. You couldn't even select your own party. Not even a main female character or anything to choose from. So they got rid of anything the series offered before.
Also I don't remember any epic moments in the game. They tried but it was always underwhelming. Espers were practically useless as they were only useable in specific moments.
They just tried to sell a very action focused streamlined game under the FF umbrella.
In other words, the promised a FIFA game, but delivered tour de France. Its still a sports game, but not what you expected of the name.


Well I played ff xv and I really wanted to like it. I played though the game in the hope that somewhere in this game must hide a good FF or at least a good game. Well I reached the end but this moment did never come.

Never got why reviews of that game are so good. Outdoor graphics I don't remember anything that stood out in this game.

So FF xvi, never bought it after the last desaster. Seems to be more of the same. So no thanks.

But I bought the ffvii remakes so far. I'm not really into the story of that (as they changed a bit to much) but at least they got the world, characters, atmosphere and the modernized gameplay right. Espers are still a bit underwhelming but we'll they were somehow always a feature in FF games the were not really important in the late game (expect for one of them), as a maxed out character could do more damage...

 

[srerwws]

Weird that you are making a thread about a series you don’t have much experience with but okay.

To me, it feels like Final Fantasy was a big deal for a long time. Many games were met with massive anticipation and rave reviews. Final Fantasy became a huge name in the industry.

Time went on, expectations changed and evolved, and Final Fantasy evolved* with it.

The games became more experimental as focus testing or player surveys indicated people wanted more clear stories, action focus, etc. now factor in both new and old staff, polarizing directions internally and externally and here we are.

So looking back at it, now, the series feels like a mess of different ideas and confused identity. Because that’s exactly what it is.

Honestly Bravely Default and Bravely Second are some of the best, modern “final fantasy” games I can think of. Simple story. Yadda yadda magic crystals, job system, turn based battles. Honestly, they’re great.

Let’s hope Dragon Quest Sports Tv 12 doesn’t fuck it up and go the FF16 route.

The series has evolved into something different for many people, making it impossible to satisfy everyone. In my opinion, the IP has been compromised and should either be retired or limited to remakes.

 

[hinch7]

Aside from FFXIII-3 and XV (which I both skipped or dipped out) I've enjoyed the games.

About XVI, I'd suggest you play the game instead of going off other peoples opinions. Particularly if you enjoyed the demo. The game gets way better.

 

[_Idea_of_Evil_]

XV and XVI are awesome games. Great soundtracks too.

 

[Silver Wattle]

I'd like to say FF14 but the game has it's own shortcomings, such as the zone areas and instance maps are designed with the PS3 limitations in mind and it really keeps the game stuck in 2010, even if they have removed PS3 support post Stormblood the following expansions never really take advantage of it as it seems the developers already got stuck with the mindset of building maps to PS3 limitations.

 

[chromatic9]

It hasn't grown up well with the industry and it's creators are not there or retired. A big ip that is difficult to direct in how it should play, look and feel in tone etc post PS2 era.

 

[Hudo]

About XVI, I'd suggest you play the game instead of going off other peoples opinions. Particularly if you enjoyed the demo. The game gets way better.

Will do. However, I have heard some people saying that the demo consists of the "best part" of FF16. So I gather from your post that it's typical internet FUD.

 

[hinch7]

Will do. However, I have heard some people saying that the demo consists of the "best part" of FF16. So I gather from your post that it's typical internet FUD.

I do see that sentiment and find it strange. Also makes me question if they even played the game in its entirety; without that negative mindset.

There's a lot to like about the game and its overall package - combat, audio and visuals and characters. But a lot of older fans don't like it because it isn't a FF game in their eyes, so therefore its trash. And no, that isn't true. Its very much an FF game, and a great one at that. It has its flaws but definately worth checking out if you like FF and action games.

 

[Ridicululzz]

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the mainline FF series. It's just that they try something new with each entry and it's hit or miss. XVI was OK for the most part, but I wish it had more customization/rpg elements. Thankfully, we got Rebirth which had a fair amount of customization.

 

[Kasane89]

Everyone lost their shit with FF13. To me it was a really good game/trilogy and theres nothing wrong with them. It was just that the mainstream normies for the first time realized that this is an anime franchise, now that graphics were actually detailed and with modern presentation for the first time and there was nothing left to the imagination anymore. Even though there was objectively already alot to criticize about FF10, they started to whine with 13. Then FF15 released and solely because its OW it was supposed to be superior to 13, which i always find funny.

Havent played 16 yet

 

[Ozzie666]

Remember when you needed a decent guide to complete these games and find all the cool stuff?

FF16 has some good stuff, but it felt like a spin off and not a mainline game to me. I do miss turn based combat, I also miss nice crisp 2D pixel art. They combat in FF Remake was pretty good.

Also, no FF Tacticts? Seems like a perfect Switch game. Forget about the Western Audience, that was part of the charm.

 

[kunonabi]

I'd like to say FF14 but the game has it's own shortcomings, such as the zone areas and instance maps are designed with the PS3 limitations in mind and it really keeps the game stuck in 2010, even if they have removed PS3 support post Stormblood the following expansions never really take advantage of it as it seems the developers already got stuck with the mindset of building maps to PS3 limitations.

You can't play through the story with friends which makes it completely pointless if you ask me.

 

[Black_Stride]

People have different opinion?

They sell well enough to keep going, so they must be doing something right.
Not every gamer is for everyone, there is no game that doesn't have detractors, hell on this very site there people who pan Fortnite, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty.....you know popular games.



I actually liked XIII and XV.....waiting to jump on XVI when it drops on PC.
But ive got friends IRL who hate hate XIII and XV.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Lightning Returns is actually good, especially on Xbox nowadays.

I think that because its being made on a tight budget is why its not bloated. There is some sort of freedom and the combat is very sound. The world is kind of interesting because its about to be annihilated. There are lots of NPC you can interact with and save, which is also the source of you powering up. I enjoyed it.

 

[Psychostar]

You joke about magic dresses but FFX-2 had the best battle system and focuses on a job system centered around magic dresses. Probably my favorite "mainline" game when all is said and done.

Totally agree with you. I personally loved FFX-2. My only gripes with that game was that Blitzball got downgraded ( I loved Blitzball in FFX and spent ungodly hours on it) and the story not taking the direction I was hoping. The game's story direction left us high and dry.

FFX ended on such a powerful note for me, and it's forever in my top 5 games list.

I enjoyed the dynamics of the party and the shenanigans with Brother etc and the minigames were quite fun too. That secret ending was it's saving grace but I still feel like they did us dirty by not bringing Tidus back at the midpoint or something. I can't imagine an FFX-3 without Tidus and that magical happy ending. The love that developed on screen between Yuna and him deserved it.

 

[Psychostar]

The series has evolved into something different for many people, making it impossible to satisfy everyone. In my opinion, the IP has been compromised and should either be retired or limited to remakes.

Mate you are absolutely trolling. Retire the IP? It's still releasing brilliant games, just not following the pattern you personally enjoyed best.

At the end of the day, Final Fantasy is still a console seller. Every time a game was announced, it solidified my desire to upgrade to a new system. Heck, I bought a PSP for Dissidia and even that was worth it.

 

[CashPrizes]

14 is the only real FF game left. 6 is still the best so far. 12 was pretty good but most others from 8 through 15 are generic Japanese "school kids on an adventure" mediocrity. 16 got the setting right but it isn't even a real rpg.

This is correct.

The Final Fantasy fandom is just very divided on how the series should be. Everyone has their favorite game that is some elses most hated.

Eh, I don't think anyone hates VI the most. I have never seen that sentiment personally, and if I did I would just write the person off as being contrarian. Ff you hate VI you would hate 1-5 just as much if not more so.
If you have played them all and VI is your most hated your brain is broken.

 

[Ojeteespacial]

Lack of the Sakaguchi soul.. bring Sakaguchi back, problem solved.

Sakaguchi but with the 1999 Square team.

 

[MISTER INVEIGLER]

Will do. However, I have heard some people saying that the demo consists of the "best part" of FF16. So I gather from your post that it's typical internet FUD.

The demo is the best part. The rest of the game after the demo is FF14 mmo fetch quest with epic on rails battles every once in a while. The rpg elements are extremely lacking. I personally think it’s the worst mainline FF game. It feels like a spin off. The demo is not what you should expect for most of the game.

 

[Hudo]

I do see that sentiment and find it strange. Also makes me question if they even played the game in its entirety; without that negative mindset.

There's a lot to like about the game and its overall package - combat, audio and visuals and characters. But a lot of older fans don't like it because it isn't a FF game in their eyes, so therefore its trash. And no, that isn't true. Its very much an FF game, and a great one at that. It has its flaws but definately worth checking out if you like FF and action games.

The demo is the best part. The rest of the game after the demo is FF14 mmo fetch quest with epic on rails battles every once in a while. The RPG elements are extremely lacking. I personally think it’s the worst mainline FF game. It feels like a spin off. The demo is not what you should expect for most of the game.

GAF is giving me more mixed signals than the girl I went out with a week ago.

 

[SiegeDamage]

I’ve been a very big fan of FF since the first game. In fact, those games stand alongside LoZ as some of my favourite games ever. I enjoyed certain aspects of I through XII, with IV being my most beloved entry. Unfortunately, in an effort to re-define itself, I feel that the series has deviated so far away from the original game design principles and philosophy, which has left a great many of us older fans behind.

Give me turn-based combat, fantastical stories that get the imagination flowing, fun world exploration, characters you can connect with, and I’ll be a happy man.

It may be a naive sentiment, but I still maintain hope that Final Fantasy will find and return to its roots one day.

 

[Zathalus]

FF16 decided to look at action games as an inspiration when it should have looked at other RPGs.

 

[Fabieter]

Sakaguchi but with the 1999 Square team.

There is still alot of the old people at sqaure especially the rebirth and ff 14 team.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I gave up on FF years ago. FF16 did little to rekindle my enthusiasm for the series.

 

[Dick Jones]

They should have kept the mainline FF games turn based and the spin offs be the new style of play.

 

[KungFucius]

Last great one was 9.

Agreed. The story in 10 made it pretty bad and nothing they did after that captured any of the magic of the older ones. My age might be a factor too. I didn't finish 16 which is a first. I kind of like the remakes but the story is not as good as the original and kind of frustrating.

 

[TheAssist]

There is nothing inherently wrong with the series. 13 and 15 fell into the time were japanese devs simply had big problems keeping up with modern games development. This was not an isolated Final Fantasy thing. Both were victims of excrutiating development and contradictory interests in the dev team.
16 is a great game that serves one part of the community while leaving the other 232553 parts out (the "its not an rpg" crowd mainly)
7 Remake series is imho among the best franchises currently going on, but some don't like the story changes and every time something happens they don't like, they call it "bad writing", probably not knowing what the term refers to.

The FF fanbase is so extremely diverse that you can not please everyone, therefor is less about the actual games (which all have strengths and weaknesses of course) and much more about a very vocal and split fanbase. But that will always happen with long standing fanbases. Just look at Star Wars, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, etc.

Many people think that their own opinion is a scientific fact and they argue like god himself send them to this earth, meaning they dont accept other opinions and behave like little dipshits, making a lot of the conversation very toxic.

I for one love some Final Fantasys and kinda ignore others.

I love everything from 6 up to 10. Feel lukewarm about 12 and 15. Stay away from 13 (only one I could not finish). Like 16. And fucking celebrate 7 Remake series. I just like the fact that FF reinvents itself, that it doesnt stay the same. Even if that means I sometimes dont like a thing. There is always going to be next time and you never know what will happen.

 

[Rickyiez]

. I tried the demo myself. It was alright (though that Eikon battle was epic), but I've been repeatedly told that I've played the best part of the game and that I shouldn't bother with a purchase.

I think this is nonsense. How's the tutorial the best part of the game.

 

[LimanimaPT]

The end of turn based combat was the end of the FF franchise for me.

 

[AfroRonin]

 

[Kumomeme]

smooth development with complete package of game is what Square Enix struggled for decade. until FF16 and VII remake project.



to summary of their main problem in last decade which is highlighted by Naoki Yoshida at 2014's GDC :

here we can see they has issue that lot of other AAA company has few years ago.

1. Obsession toward graphics at the cost of gameplay. they obssesed with deliver highest quality ever that it affected FF13 and 14 1.0 output.
2. lack of knowledge and unable to adapt toward modern gaming trend design
3. release first, patch later. this is issue with FF15. the practice is bad enough with MMO but they did it with single player game LMAO

which is most of this problem already solved with FF16 and FFVII remake project.


they actually has issue of adapting toward modern AAA game development since PS360 era. thats why they struggled with FF13 and 15. to be fair not just them. most of japanese developers are having similliar issue aside Capcom. western devs are more ready with this aspect with proper tools and engine. since PS360 era, scope of development grew alot and their old way of developing things are feasible anymore. for example in PSOne and PS2 era, they create different engine or tools at each Final Fantasy game. imagine doing same for modern development today LOL. game development also increase alot in term of manpower and time. before each Final Fantasy development took merely around 1-2 years. but since PS360 era, AAA games normaly took around atleast 4 years. to be fair they actually aware of this thats why they invest in creating their own unified game engine Crystal Tools. but turn out the engine not perform as how it should be. to be fair the engine and game development that time is also rushed.


simply to say that time they struggled to adapt with technology. Crystal Tools is a mess and there is problematic arrogant mindset of Square Enix that thinking they are still above and refuse to see other games in market. Naoki Yoshida touched this aspect in Noclip Documentary of FF14 which is i timestampted and recomended people to see. here he touch lot of issue with development and corporate mindset of the company that time :



Crystal Tools and FF13/FF14 1.0 fiasco damaged them alot. but now they just recovered from it. current Square Enix output is fine. Unreal Engine serve them well and FFVII Rebirth output is stellar. FF16 is also fine. despite its flaw, it is their first new mainline FF without development issue and deliver with complete package. it just they go to different direction like the combat system which is give a mixed reception from veteran players due to subjective preferences. FF14 is awesome. thats is the FF that everyone is looking for all this times IMO.

also the franchise slowly fall into niche circle which is why they end up take some controversial decision to gain new younger generation of audience.

 

[Ojeteespacial]

Agreed. The story in 10 made it pretty bad and nothing they did after that captured any of the magic of the older ones. My age might be a factor too. I didn't finish 16 which is a first. I kind of like the remakes but the story is not as good as the original and kind of frustrating.

I'm re playing X and found the narrative is quité good. With IX are my favourites.

 

[Deerock71]

The most important thing that is wrong with modern Final Fantasy games is that they are no longer JRPGs. Honestly, every since SquareSoft was acquired by Enix, Final Fantasy has sucked. If they ditched the Final Fantasy moniker, I think I could like the games better. But calling them Final Fantasy is an insult to those of us who grew up on the original games.

This is where I fear Dragon Quest is heading.

 

[Skelterz]

It isn’t turn based and also hasn’t got a soul anymore because SE is continually trying to reinvent the wheel in an era where traditional JRPG’s are thriving like Persona SMT Dragon quest Yakuza list goes on.

 

[SHA]

The fact that you just can't runaway from 7,9,6,11,14, it gets too personal, sony has nothing to do with it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

FF14 is awesome. thats is the FF that everyone is looking for all this times IMO.

I think it's suffering from it's success and is falling victim to the 3 steps to failure. I think XIV got a sales spike during Covid and bad WoW expansions but now that WoW did better with Dragonflight and Covid is over I think it'll taper down a bit.

As a story driven game if the story is underwhelming the game will suffer as a result and that is where XIV is at now. And I think it's shifting towards that modern audience crowd with poor storywriting, stagnating gameplay meant to be super accessible and kind of has lost it's Final Fantasy touch.

XIV has become something else while in many cases XI looks and feels like a Final Fantasy game.

That said though XIV is the best selling entry in the entire franchise and is leagues ahead of anything else.

Psychostar Regarding FFX mythos they have really lost the plot when you factor in FFX-2.5 and FFX -Will-. Both are novella content.

 

[Ultros]

XV & XVI labeled as "For newcomers" when they really meant "Western audience"

You never hear people talk about XIII(etc), 15 or 16 in any meaningful way. But there is a good reason many people still talk about 6(to an extent) all the way through to 10. Though I am also rather fond of 12. Remake and Rebirth are okay though, but there's nothing Japanese about them or Final Fantasy regardless of them being Remakes.

 

[Xyphie]

Lack of gameplay continuity between entries. What even is a Final Fantasy game? Turn-based? Action RPG?

 

[Luc2010]

I thought FF 13-1 was fine, 13-2 was even better. I liked the paradox story. People bitched about the game not being open world enough. Well, the developers took that to heart and now shit is too open. They lost the design flow of a Final Fantasy game. The developers just need to go back and play some older games. Then they will know how to move forward. Leave the open world design for non-Final Fantasy games.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Lack of gameplay continuity between entries. What even is a Final Fantasy game? Turn-based? Action RPG?

JP Dungeons and Dragons would be the simplest way to describe it.

 

[Ultros]

smooth development with complete package of game is what Square Enix struggled for decade. until FF16 and VII remake project.



to summary of their main problem in last decade which is highlighted by Naoki Yoshida at 2014's GDC :

here we can see they has issue that lot of other AAA company has few years ago.

1. Obsession toward graphics at the cost of gameplay. they obssesed with deliver highest quality ever that it affected FF13 and 14 1.0 output.
2. lack of knowledge and unable to adapt toward modern gaming trend design
3. release first, patch later. this is issue with FF15. the practice is bad enough with MMO but they did it with single player game LMAO

which is most of this problem already solved with FF16 and FFVII remake project.


they actually has issue of adapting toward modern AAA game development since PS360 era. thats why they struggled with FF13 and 15. to be fair not just them. most of japanese developers are having similliar issue aside Capcom. western devs are more ready with this aspect with proper tools and engine. since PS360 era, scope of development grew alot and their old way of developing things are feasible anymore. for example in PSOne and PS2 era, they create different engine or tools at each Final Fantasy game. imagine doing same for modern development today LOL. game development also increase alot in term of manpower and time. before each Final Fantasy development took merely around 1-2 years. but since PS360 era, AAA games normaly took around atleast 4 years. to be fair they actually aware of this thats why they invest in creating their own unified game engine Crystal Tools. but turn out the engine not perform as how it should be. to be fair the engine and game development that time is also rushed.


simply to say that time they struggled to adapt with technology. Crystal Tools is a mess and there is problematic arrogant mindset of Square Enix that thinking they are still above and refuse to see other games in market. Naoki Yoshida touched this aspect in Noclip Documentary of FF14 which is i timestampted and recomended people to see. here he touch lot of issue with development and corporate mindset of the company that time :



Crystal Tools and FF13/FF14 1.0 fiasco damaged them alot. but now the just recovered from it. current Square Enix output is fine. Unreal Engine serve them well and FFVII Rebirth output is stellar. FF16 is also fine. despite its flaw, it is their first new mainline FF without development issue and deliver with complete package. it just they go to different direction like the combat system which is give a mixed reception from veteran players due to subjective preferences. FF14 is awesome. thats is the FF that everyone is looking for all this times IMO.

also the franchise slowly fall into niche circle which is why they end up take some controversial decision to gain new younger generation of audience.

Modern games and developers in a nutshell

 

[Astray]

Squaresoft has been the patient zero of the terminal race for graphical fidelity, especially when it comes to Final Fantasy. A lot of people talk about Sony or EA or whatever, but Squaresoft was always the 1st to start that trend.

This trend started with the PS era (some might argue it was happening even in the SNES era, they always had a major focus on graphics).

Then it should have reached a major conclusion after Spirits Within flopped and took Sakaguchi out, but instead you got idiots like Wada taking over and demanding that FF needs to have sequels (classic case of why sales and marketing should never ever be at the helm of any company ever), this is how we got X-2, a more than OK game, but it also gave the impression to management that their idea was feasible, which then led to the absolute trainwreck that is the 13 trilogy.

I cannot say enough bad things about FF13, a lot of people like to talk it up nowadays because it makes for great contrarian YouTube videos, but that was modern Squeenix at its absolute worst: A game that is completely about visuals first with zero meaningful design, with the writers and directors being very, VERY firmly up their own ass and basically doing things for themselves (I still get PTSD every time I see the word Fal'Cie or whatever the fuck it was). 13 was the 1st game that convinced me I needed a HDTV, it was also the 1st JRPG game I ever dropped.

Then they made two more installments of it. Insane.

I genuinely think FF has never fully recovered from this as a franchise. The fact that Sega/Atlus has wrested control of the JRPG scene only makes their comeback even less likely.

 

[GateofD]

FF7R Rebirth was good. I liked that.
FF16 to me isn't a jrpg. I did enjoy it enough and the story/cinematics, so treating it as a cinematic movie, it was good, but its not a jrpg. Stats don't matter, weapon don't matter, levels don't matter cause of the way things scale. Anyone that plays it are gonna be at the exact same levels and equipment at a point in time as anyone else.

I liked FF13 and really did like FF13-2 (very under-rated gem for that console generation imo). FF13 Lightning Returns was like a joke to me.

 

[Jigsaah]

14 is the only real FF game left. 6 is still the best so far. 12 was pretty good but most others from 8 through 15 are generic Japanese "school kids on an adventure" mediocrity. 16 got the setting right but it isn't even a real rpg.

You didn't like 8 - 9 or 10? Wow.