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Where Is James Bond? Trapped in an Ugly Stalemate With Amazon

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Says the woman who didn't want Christopher Nolan to make a James Bond movie. Broccoli is a fucking moron.

Is that what happened? I thought the rumor was they were in talks, but simply couldn't agree on a way forward to take the franchise.

Very different from her not wanting to work with Nolan.

These stealth 'Amazon are always terrible and everyone else is marvellous' threads are getting very tiresome.

I never said anything like that.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Is that what happened? I thought the rumor was they were in talks, but simply couldn't agree on a way forward to take the franchise.

Very different from her not wanting to work with Nolan.

I never said anything like that.
Never meant to imply you did, mate.

Nolan wanted to do it. She turned him down. Idiocy. This whole situation is clowns in a fight with other clowns.
 
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kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I read about that and props to Barbara Broccoli for standing up for the IP and not tolerating shenanigans from Amazon. We'd probably already have a gay, black and female James Bond if it wasn't for her.

Well, the last Bond movie was already moving in that direction with the introduction of a black female MI5 partner for Bond. It was almost as if the film's producers were setting up a female James Bond to take over from the real one.
 

Tams

Member
They need to reassess, Kingsman was more Bond than the Daniel Craig era. We need more of those.

It was. And was successful as a result.

The Man From U.N.C.L.E. though, was pretty much a retro Bond with a star lead who almost anyone sane has been saying should be Bond for years. And yet, they've somehow managed to go from a point where he was possibly a little too young to a point where he's verging on too old.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Well, the last Bond movie was already moving in that direction with the introduction of a black female MI5 partner for Bond. It was almost as if the film's producers were setting up a female James Bond to take over from the real one.

I do have to laugh at people siding with Barbara Broccoli against the hideous woke Amazon bastards... when she was the one that had a black woman take on the 007 mantle in the last Bond film, and has stated that Bond could absolutely be a man of any colour.

Season 9 Lol GIF by The Office


Shame Idris is a hundred and fifty five years old now.
 
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Jinzo Prime

Member
I do have to laugh at people siding with Barbara Broccoli against the hideous woke Amazon bastards... when she was the one that had a black woman take on the 007 mantle in the last Bond film, and has stated that Bond could absolutely be a man of any colour.

Season 9 Lol GIF by The Office


Shame Idris is a hundred and fifty five years old now.

I want to see this guy in a Bond movie:

2021-05-14_144537_aaron_pic.jpg


He can be Bond or 00-whatever, but he's got "it".
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
Amazon needs Broccoli to furnish them with ideas for a new Bond movie.
Broccoli was irked in one early meeting when Salke referred to James Bond by a dreaded word: “content.” Using such a sterile term, one friend reflected, was like a “death knell” to Broccoli.
It was also antithetical to Broccoli’s approach, which she has said mixes gut instinct with a healthy amount of risk—with no decision more critical than determining who will play Bond. Daniel Craig, for instance, was a relative unknown when he got the part, starting with 2006’s “Casino Royale.” The decision, she has said, is as serious as choosing one’s spouse.

This sounds like nonsense, tbh. The people Amazon have hired will be from the same pool that all people making the biggest films in the world are drawing from.

The idea that Broccoli can inherit the franchise and by that right be the only one who has the power to divine what is correct for the franchise seems like it could be a difficult situation to navigate when she becomes unmanageably offended if someone says "content."

It sounds a bit like the system might have been that Broccoli glides in being flattered for her brilliance and once she's been massaged enough, she finally greenlights things so that people can get on with doing the work.

That's what it sounds like.

But, in her defence, she has credits on other films, so presumably is actually a real producer, and Bond has had a pretty good run during the Craig era, which since she's apparently the road block here, she should get credit for steering in recent years. Perhaps there were some terrible ideas that she vetoed in the past. We didn't hear about it because there perhaps were fewer of them or because she knows what to do with the franchise and steered them correctly.

What I'm saying is that it sounds like you could possibly end up thinking she's a diva who doesn't really do anything but like being in the middle of things and getting paid. But perhaps the success of the franchise under her stewardship ought to be applauded.

Perhaps Amazon ARE fucking idiots.
 
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Tams

Member
This sounds like nonsense, tbh. The people Amazon have hired will be from the same pool that all people making the biggest films in the world are drawing from.

The idea that Broccoli can inherit the franchise and by that right be the only one who has the power to divine what is correct for the franchise seems like it could be a difficult situation to navigate when she becomes unmanageably offended if someone says "content."

It sounds a bit like the system might have been that Broccoli glides in being flattered for her brilliance and once she's been massaged enough, she finally greenlights things so that people can get on with doing the work.

That's what it sounds like.

But, in her defence, she has credits on other films, so presumably is actually a real producer, and Bond has had a pretty good run during the Craig era, which since she's apparently the road block here, she should get credit for steering in recent years. Perhaps there were some terrible ideas that she vetoed in the past. We didn't hear about it because there perhaps were fewer of them or because she knows what to do with the franchise and steered them correctly.

What I'm saying is that it sounds like you could possibly end up thinking she's a diva who doesn't really do anything but like being in the middle of things and getting paid. But perhaps the success of the franchise under her stewardship ought to be applauded.

Perhaps Amazon ARE fucking idiots.

Has it crossed your mind that perhaps they are both idiots?
 

thefool

Member
That's part of the problem. Austin powers took all of the piss out of the campy bond formula, then stuff like mission impossible beat them at the stunt spectacular game. They have no where else to go

They can go even grittier (hopefully not) or actually embrace some of the espionage/thriller roots instead of the action-set piece formula.
 
I’ve been a Bond fan since I was a kid.

No Time to Die was 100% garbage and everyone involved should be fired into the sun.
Hard disagree. Best Bond film of Daniel Craig's career. Casino Royale is boring. Quantum of Solace is a Tom Clancy film. Skyfall is a Die Hard film. Spectre is plain dumb. In contrast, No Time To Die nails Bond as a character and adds the mystery aspect necessary in a good spy film.
 
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Madonis

Member
It sounds like they've basically given up on working together. Well, I guess a new Bond movie will happen later rather than sooner.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Is he the fellow from Rebel Ridge? Because that was a surprisingly solid movie and he was great in it.
Give him a few more films. He certainly has the build for it but Rebel Ridge was a little disappointing in the third act IMHO and deprived him of a big action finale.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
I’ve been a Bond fan since I was a kid.

No Time to Die was 100% garbage and everyone involved should be fired into the sun.
The plague bit was definitely neutered due to covid. And the much bally-hooed "black female 007" ended up being, LITERALLY, his chauffer for the ENTIRE film. And in the end, rather than have her stand up, tell Bond that she could sacrifice herself just as easily as he could and let him have his ride into the sunset, they let her, again, drive his baby momma and daughter away. Pathetic.
 

Warspite

Member
According to the Journal, Broccoli was irked when Salke referred to the James Bond series as “content” that the company wanted to offer the public.

“content” And that's why modern streaming service produce so much shit.

With the budget's we have seen, we should be in the golden age of entertainment with idea's put to screen that was not possible in the past. What did we get? Amazon pissing away a billion on Lord of the Ring's and getting 2 nobodies to run it :messenger_pensive:

I ask how did we get here but I know, its not entertainment its “content”
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
“content” And that's why modern streaming service produce so much shit.

With the budget's we have seen, we should be in the golden age of entertainment with idea's put to screen that was not possible in the past. What did we get? Amazon pissing away a billion on Lord of the Ring's and getting 2 nobodies to run it :messenger_pensive:

I ask how did we get here but I know, its not entertainment its “content”
Right. Compare how the Tolkien family is now managing LOTR vs. Christopher Tolkien. It's obvious that whoever manages it now doesn't give a shit and just sees it as a way to generate cash.

"Content" implies that it is just another way to spend the company's money (in this case Amazon) and fill squares on the streaming app. It doesn't mean you respect it as a piece of art, which Bond is, even if it is pop art. I don't know who this Broccoli lady is but if I loved and respected and managed a franchise and some dork came to me about the ____ content universe I would tell them to shove it up their ass too.

And look maybe Bond has run its course, if so then all the more reason not to "LOTR" it.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
And look maybe Bond has run its course, if so then all the more reason not to "LOTR" it.
Bond is ALWAYS profitable. And in the old days, RIDICULOUSLY profitable, with a ROI that would be unimaginable today.

You can see the REAL problem with Hollywood in this slide. Just look at the ballooning budget starting in the late 90's and really taking off in the 00's, WTF? Those kinds of costs are just a MONSTER, killing creative freedom, risk taking, and accountability.

1vTPwhh.jpeg
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Bond is ALWAYS profitable. And in the old days, RIDICULOUSLY profitable, with a ROI that would be unimaginable today.

You can see the REAL problem with Hollywood in this slide. Just look at the ballooning budget starting in the late 90's and really taking off in the 00's, WTF? Those kinds of costs are just a MONSTER, killing creative freedom, risk taking, and accountability.

1vTPwhh.jpeg
I would also argue that a reason for the profitability is is also in this charge, that you can go back to 1964 and it still fits on a single image. Every Bond movie is an event. What happens when they are churning out garbage like they do for every major IP?
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
I would also argue that a reason for the profitability is is also in this charge, that you can go back to 1964 and it still fits on a single image. Every Bond movie is an event. What happens when they are churning out garbage like they do for every major IP?
We never had a gap longer than 3 years till the transition to Brosnan and then to Craig, then he sttrreeeeeettttccchhhhheeeddddd it waaaayy out with that NTDT gap, he really should have been recast and then back to 2-3 year breaks. If you really look at it (and discount NSNA) we are 'short' about 3 bond films. If you pardon the first few years with THREE films in 18 months, its a 41 year span with 25 films (and then NSNA and the first Casino Royale) so clearly the pace of a film every 2 years, even every 3 is too slow for this juggernaut franchise. The appetite for a fun, action packed Bond film is virtually inexhaustible, PROVIDED the leading man has 'pre sold' audiences and the films are solid. I can look at the list, pick out my Bond 'stinkers' and the BO reflects it mostly (YOLT, MWTGG, LTK). The low ball films at the box office are the new Bonds (well, Lazenby mostly) and the OLD Bonds (Moore and Craig, sorta, and Connery with NSNA was pulling less than the previous Moore outings).

If you keep them fairly self-contained and with a rational budget, then I think consistent mid-to high 9 figure BO return off a 150ish mill budget is totally doable and repeatable.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
We never had a gap longer than 3 years till the transition to Brosnan and then to Craig, then he sttrreeeeeettttccchhhhheeeddddd it waaaayy out with that NTDT gap, he really should have been recast and then back to 2-3 year breaks. If you really look at it (and discount NSNA) we are 'short' about 3 bond films. If you pardon the first few years with THREE films in 18 months, its a 41 year span with 25 films (and then NSNA and the first Casino Royale) so clearly the pace of a film every 2 years, even every 3 is too slow for this juggernaut franchise. The appetite for a fun, action packed Bond film is virtually inexhaustible, PROVIDED the leading man has 'pre sold' audiences and the films are solid. I can look at the list, pick out my Bond 'stinkers' and the BO reflects it mostly (YOLT, MWTGG, LTK). The low ball films at the box office are the new Bonds (well, Lazenby mostly) and the OLD Bonds (Moore and Craig, sorta, and Connery with NSNA was pulling less than the previous Moore outings).

If you keep them fairly self-contained and with a rational budget, then I think consistent mid-to high 9 figure BO return off a 150ish mill budget is totally doable and repeatable.
I think we are on the same page here, I am speaking to this idea of saturation that you see in the way so many companies handle their "IP", where they just swamp their streaming services with shit, they have multiple directors working on a dozen movies, etc. Look at all the Soy Wars shit we have gotten AFTER they shitcanned a bunch of movies. Look at all the Marvel junk we are bombarded with. I am speaking to that. That we wouldn't just see a new Bond film every 2-3 years, but we get a Bond "cinematic universe" with TV shows and spin-offs that come out constantly.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Agreed, I wouldn't want to see tie-in tv shows and whatnot. But i do think stuff like novels and comics can be good ways to develop stories and characters to then take to the films. But do NOT seed the films with wacky characters there just to be spun off. That practice is distracting. But the Ana de Armas character, could stand to see a little more of her because she was fun in the film. But if you were just looking at the script, you probably would have greenlit a bunch of crap with lashonda lynch who ended up being a wet blanket in the film, no charisma or charm whatsoever

Make the film, see what resonates, then iterate off that. You can't "force" a shared universe.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
During a company meeting about the second season, an Amazon employee admitted her own misgivings.
“I have to be honest,” she said. “I don’t think James Bond is a hero.”
The room went silent.
Would somebody think of all the exploited minorities?

Michael Keaton No GIF
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
She's right. I have not liked a single Amazon production. I dont mind woke stuff if its good but its not good. Female girl boss James Bond is a retarded idea. Saying James Bond is not a hero is also literally retarded.

She should not be working with mentally challenged people. We need to stop normalizing this kind of behavior. it's flat out retarded.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I knew they wanted to make the next 007 a woman. Fucking Amazon ruins everything they touch.


Unfortunately, until they fire Jennifer Salke, nothing will change. She is Patient Zero for all of this stuff. The absolute worst kind of west coast, tech exec, algorithm-over-creativity asshole you can imagine. If you’ve seen anything on Amazon you like, chances are it’s been made despite her input.

This entire story feels aimed directly at her by Eon.
 
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The plague bit was definitely neutered due to covid. And the much bally-hooed "black female 007" ended up being, LITERALLY, his chauffer for the ENTIRE film. And in the end, rather than have her stand up, tell Bond that she could sacrifice herself just as easily as he could and let him have his ride into the sunset, they let her, again, drive his baby momma and daughter away. Pathetic.
I still think it's hilarious that people who obviously didn't watch the movie or have sub-80 IQ's don't realize that the "black female 007" was a deliberate subversion of wokeness and that she did nothing the whole movie and then handed the number back to the real 007 to save the world at the end
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
I still think it's hilarious that people who obviously didn't watch the movie or have sub-80 IQ's don't realize that the "black female 007" was a deliberate subversion of wokeness and that she did nothing the whole movie and then handed the number back to the real 007 to save the world at the end
I saw the movie twice, and did like it overall, and I agree that she was pretty much window dressing in the movie, with all the personality, charisma, and charm of a potted plant, but I would be surprised if that's what they wanted or planned to do lol.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
I saw the movie twice, and did like it overall, and I agree that she was pretty much window dressing in the movie, with all the personality, charisma, and charm of a potted plant, but I would be surprised if that's what they wanted or planned to do lol.
I'm guessing they had 'plans' for that character, but the actress they hired didn't deliver so they trimmed her down as much as possible. The Ana De Armas character had 1000x more chemistry with Craig than any woman they have paired him with across FIVE films, so they rightly maximized her scenes.
 

Tams

Member
I'm guessing they had 'plans' for that character, but the actress they hired didn't deliver so they trimmed her down as much as possible. The Ana De Armas character had 1000x more chemistry with Craig than any woman they have paired him with across FIVE films, so they rightly maximized her scenes.

There wasn't anywhere near enough Ana De Armas in NTTD. Utterly wasted potential.
 
We need a movie where a former double 0 is the bad guy and it's played my Bronson.

Yeye Goldeneye had a 00 as a bad guy but that was staged death and the agent was same age/experience as bond.
 
We need a movie where a former double 0 is the bad guy and it's played my Bronson.

Yeye Goldeneye had a 00 as a bad guy but that was staged death and the agent was same age/experience as bond.
Wasn't that Skyfall? Silva literally had the same MI6 handler as Bond.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
We need a Bond film with Cavill and he was a double agent all along, defects to Russia, and a new guy has to step up. There is a lot of room to show other 00 agents, you just need a clear BOND type in there for the final act. None of this "he's -almost- Bond" for two films with Craig, then he jumps to "I'm too old for Bond" in film 3 :p
 
We need a Bond film with Cavill and he was a double agent all along, defects to Russia, and a new guy has to step up. There is a lot of room to show other 00 agents, you just need a clear BOND type in there for the final act. None of this "he's -almost- Bond" for two films with Craig, then he jumps to "I'm too old for Bond" in film 3 :p
The franchise is about a single fictional character who is part of the family with the motto of "The World is Not Enough" a.k.a. Bond.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
The franchise is about a single fictional character who is part of the family with the motto of "The World is Not Enough" a.k.a. Bond.
I don't ascribe to that theory. And even if true, the "last member" of that family took about a dozen cruise missiles to the face, soooooo, who is left to play Bond?

The Craig run was a (semi) fun exploration of Bonds psychology, but the overly familial nature of it all (Blofeld an old family friend, etc) needs to be rebooted. I'm definitely not saying some street ruffian could be groomed to be Bond (ala Kingsman) but that folks from a certain lineage get the job for that specific cover identity.
 
I don't ascribe to that theory. And even if true, the "last member" of that family took about a dozen cruise missiles to the face, soooooo, who is left to play Bond?

The Craig run was a (semi) fun exploration of Bonds psychology, but the overly familial nature of it all (Blofeld an old family friend, etc) needs to be rebooted. I'm definitely not saying some street ruffian could be groomed to be Bond (ala Kingsman) but that folks from a certain lineage get the job for that specific cover identity.
James becoming an orphan at a young age and being the member of a somewhat prestigious family is plot relevant in a lot of the Ian Fleming novels. However loosely adapted the films are, anything without that foundation would be a spin-off like The Bourne Legacy is to the Jason Bourne films.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
James becoming an orphan at a young age and being the member of a somewhat prestigious family is plot relevant in a lot of the Ian Fleming novels. However loosely adapted the films are, anything without that foundation would be a spin-off like The Bourne Legacy is to the Jason Bourne films.
I actually think the Bourne series was on to something, a set of conditioning to create a somewhat predictable output. In that context anyone COULD be Bourne, i.e. do all the spy stuff, they just gotta eventually break out of it and turn on Treadstone. Even in your version, the "Skyfall" ranch takes orphans and raises them all to be ultra-patriotic, self-sacrificing, soldiers to Queen and Country, some portion of them becoming 00s, others presumably would stick with the Navy, go SAS/SBS/Royal Marines, or what have you, because they were literally raised for that stuff.
 

taylor34

Neo Member
I love the older Bond but I just don't like the Craig Bond films that much due to the tone they took which was way too serious. When they did that it just became another action movie not distinguishable from anything else. It's like removing the force and lightsabers from Star Wars but then doing a movie on a Jedi Master...well without those things it's not really 'Star Wars' and it just feels like everything else. Maybe Bond had gotten a little too corny but at least it was different.
 

Tams

Member
I love the older Bond but I just don't like the Craig Bond films that much due to the tone they took which was way too serious. When they did that it just became another action movie not distinguishable from anything else. It's like removing the force and lightsabers from Star Wars but then doing a movie on a Jedi Master...well without those things it's not really 'Star Wars' and it just feels like everything else. Maybe Bond had gotten a little too corny but at least it was different.

The annoying thing is that Die Another Day's opening is fantastic and shows much potential. Halle Berry is a decent enough Bond girl and Rosamund Pike... I wish that weren't the only Bond film she'd been in. The cars were cool as well and two classic British brands.

Yet the overall plot was too outlandish, and the parasurfing was too much and about a decade too early CG wise.
 
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