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[FatallyYours]

So anyway, back to Crusader Kings...

If you're not actively trying to breed a race of Giant Vikings with eugenics, leading to the full invasion of England with your master race of Jötunn's are you even playing the game as intended?

I think not!

 

[Arachnid]

Why are women allowed to enjoy those things undisturbed while men need to be shamed at every opportunity?

That is a good fucking line.

 

[TheChumpNation]

Sounds beyond explicit. I'm fine with censorship in this instance.

 

[Toots]

Eh, there are tons of other games besides COD that deal with murder

Hell, you are a killer in Hitman. You can kill everyone in the game, not only your targets, in very sadistic ways, but no one gives a damn, 'cause murder is already "socially accepted"

"Illegal" isn't where we draw the line, clearly

What happens if you kill civilians in hitman ? You fail your mission.
I used COD as an example because it is the most telling, but the idea is you can have violence in games but never without context. Moreover the context counts more than the degree of violence shown. I not necessarily agree with that, but it is a fact.

Because only men are shamed for their fetishes by hypocrites like Women in Games.


That ship has sailed long time ago.

You are venturing in extreme incel territories thus i cannot follow you there even if i wanted to.
Essentializing men and women as you do here prevent you from thinking.

Maybe he's doing it because as per usual with feminist orgs it is? They specifically target stuff aimed at men while deliberately ignore the ones aimed at women

Same as MarVO. Also these orgs specifically target stuff aimed at men to trigger men to gain traction and engagement, and they are doing a pretty good job it seems.

You are talking about a society where minors pimp themselves in OnlyFans for the sake of "empowerment" and they are called "content creators" instead of the most fitting word for that.

SPARE ME THE BULLSHIT.

What the hell are you on about. Most people don't do what you are refering to.

Why taking the scum of society as an example of what goes ? Because you want to justify another scum of the society behavior ? It's mind bogglingly stupid.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

That's the old way of thinking. Research for the last 80 years has shown that just because people see something on TV, games, books etc doesn't mean they are going to engage in the behavior they see. The reason for this is because the human brain can distinguish between fiction and reality.


You're argument is what people used to use to try to ban stuff in books, then the radio, then TV and finally games. Personally I think horror movies are sick and disgusting but just because I think that shit is for weirdos doesn't mean it should be banned. Specially not in the US where we have many freedoms in terms of content publishing.

It depends on the circumstance, right now games look too cartoonish but eventually this will be an issue.

If you start to sell the anarchist cookbook in stores, people making bombs will increase.

 

[Toots]

Why would you try to link morals, which you admitted are subjective, to arbitrate what someone fantasizes or writes about?

We don't do thought policing. The notion of it is absolutely contrary to free expression and artistic freedom. The point of art is to allow an escape route to all kinds of impulses we feel as humans. Explore the ideas that are some times extreme and completely outside the norm.

It would be absolutely objectionable to pick up some weapons and randomly murder all kind of people in the streets in comically horrific ways. But we not only don't ban GTA, but actually make it the most successful piece of gaming media of all time.

Easier to say we're against censorship when it's about censoring stuff we like (big tits, small waists, etc), but if we're principled, we have to defend just as strongly the media we don't like from the forces of censorship.

Im trying to link morals to what ?
Using SHARED morals to build understanding between people is the basis of society.
You don't do thought policing good you are and edgelord in the truest sense of the world.
Next time you go out and someone slap you silly because he felt like it (that is freedom too in your sense), you'll beg for as i said before "a modicum of shared morals/ethics which is mandatory for a society to work" (and you not to get slapped silly).

 

[Midway-AGNC-]

I have my issues with woke mentality but stuff like this is really fucked up and "freedom" isn't really a good argument in this case.

 

[AMC124c41]

The game has been quietly removed from Steam UK already and is not available in Canada and Australia so there you go, action has been taken.

Valve quietly removes explicit game featuring extreme sexual violence from Steam in UK

This article includes references to extreme sexual violence, please read on at your own discretion.

www.eurogamer.net

 

[kpopSuperstar]

This is straight out of your ass.

It's basic knowledge, school shooters or pedos almost always get radicalized from watching videos online. If we did like parts of South America, where they show brutal graphic images in the news, you would get more beheadings here as well.

If alchol and cigarettes werent in TV and movies, it would be less of it in society.

 

[near]

It is censorship because what's ethical and what's not is completely subjective for every different person. I don't agree that you, or anyone else, should be the authority of what's ethical for me and what should i consume or not. You don't like it? That's fine, nobody is forcing you to consume it. But what's with the obsession of making sure i also won't consume it?

This is a job for my parents and only for the short time while i'm still a minor.

I agree that ethics can be subjective, but subjectivity doesn't mean we can't have standards. We draw ethical lines everywhere even in community guidelines, look at GAF. What i'm talking about isn't about control/regulating private consumption but about where we as a society/culture draw the line on what is publicly promoted/distributed and normalised especially on platforms like Steam. We do not do this to control individuals, but to take responsibility for what we promote and profit from.

When a game is built around rewarding the playing for acting out rape, and that content is being sold alongside mainstream games with no distinction or standards, it's fair to question where it belongs.

It's not about obsession or moral panic, it's about platform responsibility. I can choose not to play it, you can choose to play it. But Steam can also choose not to sell it, and that isn't censorship, it's curating their platform like every other storefront.

Depending on where you live, hate speech might be actually protected under the law. The principled position regarding this is whether you realize it's important to protect the speech and expression of opinions opposite to your own.

Regarding the ethical line, you can draw any lines you want for personal consumption or to change how you view any person based on the consumption of whatever content... as long as you don't take steps to promote actual censorship of those people.

There's a famous quote attributed (perhaps incorrectly) to Voltaire, more people should know about, especially those always concerned about free speech and anti censorship topics: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Fair point. I'm not suggesting hate speech laws are consistent worldwide, they're definitely not. What I mean is that society already distinguishes between types of expressions all the time. Whether it's satire vs propaganda or artistic violence vs exploitation.

I agree with the quote in spirit. I'm not saying devs shouldn't be allowed to make this kind of content. But I believe that freedom of speech includes the right to critique that content, to push back on how it is platformed and to question what we as a community choose to support and normalise.

Drawing an ethical line doesn't mean calling for censorship. It means being willing and open to have uncomfortable conversations about media and what kind of content we want to celebrate or distance ourselves from.

 

[_Ex_]

 

[Randall365]

Depending on where you live, hate speech might be actually protected under the law. The principled position regarding this is whether you realize it's important to protect the speech and expression of opinions opposite to your own.

Regarding the ethical line, you can draw any lines you want for personal consumption or to change how you view any person based on the consumption of whatever content... as long as you don't take steps to promote actual censorship of those people.

There's a famous quote attributed (perhaps incorrectly) to Voltaire, more people should know about, especially those always concerned about free speech and anti censorship topics: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

It's always hypocritical though - Vance said this a couple of weeks ago and is then quite happy to have people deported for criticising his government - whether they arrived in the country illegally or just on holiday. Border patrol are going through people's phones.

I do feel hypocritical here, as I think this game should not be sold on Steam - but I am quite happy to strangle tradesmen and drown women in the toilet in Hitman, which let's face it, is not better than sexual assault or incest. Censorship has nothing to do with illegality in my view - it's always down to one's own morals. You could show rape in a Hollywood picture - show someone fucking a dog it would get censored.

 

[nkarafo]

I agree that ethics can be subjective, but subjectivity doesn't mean we can't have standards. We draw ethical lines everywhere even in community guidelines, look at GAF. What i'm talking about isn't about control/regulating private consumption but about where we as a society/culture draw the line on what is publicly promoted/distributed and normalised especially on platforms like Steam.

As i said and i agreed, STEAM has the right to allow/disallow whatever they feel like in their platform.

But there is a double standard here. They remove this game while also allowing games like Manhunt, Postal, Tormentor, Hatred, etc. One is promoting rape, the others are promoting violence, torture and murder. Is murder better than rape? Dunno, i think murder is worse because it's so final, you know. You completely remove the life from an individual and deny their existence. Also, pretty sure it's at a higher tier on the crimes list and gets a harsher punishment.

So what's the deal STEAM? Why are these games still in the library? I guess you are OK with murder.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Define "obscene"?

Is this game more obscene than any movie with a rape scene? Even something like Irreversible with it's 10 min rape scene is still not illegal.

I haven't played this game but i would bet it's far more tame than this movie.

Also, there's a TON of sexual assault/rape scenarios in porn and it's pretty legal.

Amen

At first I was disgusted as any sane person should be to incest but than I thought about how there's already fictional incest shits in porn that people already avoid just like how this is a fictional game which is still disgusting and something I would avoid. But there's also plenty of other shits out there that are just as disgusting if not worse like pedos, animal shits, people who switch genders, people who dress like demons to go to little kids at school to brainwash them etc.. And when I think futher, these incest or dirty porn games usually keeps to themselves so it's not like they are trying to normalize it massively and also demand others for accepting their nasty ways. Cause there's even more mentally insane stuff out there and it's actually worse cause some of those insane nasty folks don't even keep to themselves rather they demand sane people accept their evil nasty views and ways or they'll call others phobic this or that. And those are real life not even fictional like this game.

 

[near]

I do feel hypocritical here, as I think this game should not be sold on Steam - but I am quite happy to strangle tradesmen and drown women in the toilet in Hitman, which let's face it, is not better than sexual assault or incest.

This is an honest take. That internal conflict is something I have thought about a lot since this thread started. You're not a hypocrite.

Hitman lets you do awful things, without question. But I think the difference lies in how those actions are framed and what the game is encouraging you to do and feel.

In Hitman, the violence is absurd and arguably satirical. It's framed as a puzzle with strategies. You're not rewarded for sadism, you're rewarded for stealth, creativity and timing. Drowning a woman in the toilet is a wild gameplay mechanic, not a sexualized power fantasy.

The game in the OP doesn't just include disturbing content, it is centred around abuse, rape, and incest as the reward. There is no satire, no broader narrative, just gratification through domination.

There is a line between narrative violence in service of a story or gameplay mechanic, and content that makes sexual abuse the goal with gratification the reward. I understand that line can be blurry at times, but intent and framing matter. And in this case, they're very different.

 

[nkarafo]

There is a line between narrative violence in service of a story or gameplay mechanic, and content that makes sexual abuse the goal with gratification the reward. I understand that line can be blurry at times, but intent and framing matter. And in this case, they're very different.

There are plenty of games on STEAM where murder and how graphic/violent it is, is the goal. Already mentioned some of them in my previous post. And i'm sure i can find plenty more if i dig. If STEAM doesn't remove them they are hypocrites.

 

[Jsisto]

Conflicted. Generally I'm against censorship but the entire concept of that game looks absolutely vile. I see two types of people playing that. People that want to get a laugh because of how insane it looks, which is harmless. And people who actually ARE insane. The latter I guess maybe you can make the argument it would be an outlet for them instead of acting on their urges in real life? I don't know. Good luck with this one, Valve. I don't think there's really a right decision here.

Probably leaning towards remove, but not sure. We all know this would just lead to a slippery slope and empower the pro censorship mob. But I think where this differs from other violent games is sexual assault seems to be the entire point, whereas other games may have that content in it but it's part of the whole. The general point of most games like GTA and Hitman is still progression based action/adventure and the key here is the marketing. This game is unashamedly marketing itself as a sexual assault simulator because it seems like that's literally the entire point, and I can't support that.

 

[near]

There are plenty of games on STEAM where murder and how graphic/violent it is, is the goal. Already mentioned some of them in my previous post. And i'm sure i can find plenty more if i dig. If STEAM doesn't remove them they are hypocrites.

Steams content moderation is inconsistent for many reasons, which I'm not entirely privy to.

Steam doesn't have to treat all dark content the same way, they can and should use context and framing to make distinctions - but they probably don't anyway.

 

[nkarafo]

Conflicted. Generally I'm against censorship but the entire concept of that game looks absolutely vile. I see two types of people playing that. People that want to get a laugh because of how insane it looks, which is harmless. And people who actually ARE insane. The latter I guess maybe you can make the argument it would be an outlet for them instead of acting on their urges in real life? I don't know. Good luck with this one, Valve. I don't think there's really a right decision here.

There's also a third type. People who see this as a kink/fetish. Which could include women as well, or so i'm told.

Then again those might already be in your "actually insane" tier.

 

[Jsisto]

There's also a third type. People who see this as a kink/fetish. Which could include women as well, or so i'm told.

Then again those might already be in your "actually insane" tier.

Agreed. There's probably a not insignificant amount of women who are into this stuff. You can go ahead and add that to the "actually insane" group.

 

[noob smokes]

This is the type of games repressed pc geeks play smfh

 

[BacklashWave534]

The problem is that these same women can't actually define assault. I think history has taught us that such policies are weaponized almost immediately.

 

[nkarafo]

Agreed. There's probably a not insignificant amount of women who are into this stuff. You can go ahead and add that to the "actually insane" group.

Eh, maybe i'm old but this is mainstream stuff. If i made an iceberg of weird fetishes i know of this would be at the very top.

 

[YCoCg]

For all you saying it's just kink stuff and that women dream about this, there's a massive difference between CNC and actual rape. If you don't understand that then I'd actually be worried by how some of you approach relationships.

 

[EviLore]

Bryan Johnson really gets around

 

[Arachnid]

For all you saying it's just kink stuff and that women dream about this, there's a massive difference between CNC and actual rape. If you don't understand that then I'd actually be worried by how some of you approach relationships.

Sure, but both are about exploring a fantasy but in a safe manner, right? Consent doesn't apply to pixels.

 

[Danknugz]

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Fair point. I'm not suggesting hate speech laws are consistent worldwide, they're definitely not. What I mean is that society already distinguishes between types of expressions all the time. Whether it's satire vs propaganda or artistic violence vs exploitation.

I agree with the quote in spirit. I'm not saying devs shouldn't be allowed to make this kind of content. But I believe that freedom of speech includes the right to critique that content, to push back on how it is platformed and to question what we as a community choose to support and normalise.

Drawing an ethical line doesn't mean calling for censorship. It means being willing and open to have uncomfortable conversations about media and what kind of content we want to celebrate or distance ourselves from.

I got no beef with that approach, as I said, allowing for fringe and distasteful artistic expression is what allows those uncomfortable conversations to take place. It doesn't mean we have to like the content, fuck knows I dislike the majority of content on most media today, but am 100% against censoring it in any way. Let people decide what they want and don't want to consume, I'm super good with that. Critiquing is more than fair game, let's critique away this shit game, I'm right on board with that

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Im trying to link morals to what ?
Using SHARED morals to build understanding between people is the basis of society.
You don't do thought policing good you are and edgelord in the truest sense of the world.
Next time you go out and someone slap you silly because he felt like it (that is freedom too in your sense), you'll beg for as i said before "a modicum of shared morals/ethics which is mandatory for a society to work" (and you not to get slapped silly).

What a mental midget thing to say lol
What the fuck has not wanting speech/art to be censored with thinking it's right to assault someone in real life? I've been in my fair share of fights/altercations in my life, never ended well for the other people

 

[Lokaum D+]

wrong thread

 

[Aenima]

Steam allows porn games, incest is the most popular porn genre...

I find it funny how naive i was when i started playing these western porn games and thought that the Landlady was actually suposed to be my Landlady.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Why taking the scum of society as an example of what goes ? Because you want to justify another scum of the society behavior ? It's mind bogglingly stupid.

What is BLINDLY stupid is to pretend that this trash game is an anomaly in Today's western society. It's 100% on point. And yes, Onlyfans is normalized and treated as some kind of empowerment.

I'm shocked at the lack of basic "street knowledge" I am witnessing in ths thread. Just have a read at female "Literature" in Amazon or Wattpad, where you willd find filth of every kind. Raping, incest, bestialism and whatnot. Those are female fantasies, and I'm not talking about a "minority" since there are MILLIONS who read that stuff.

I feel revolted by all this, but nobody will convince me for a second that this censorship has anything to do with "decency". This is about power, nothing else.

 

[GHound]

I really didn't realize how much potential we had for "reset the clock" opportunities on GAF until this thread.

 

[Draugoth]

The developer is removing the game from Steam because he is being harassed by the feminists and they are trying to dox him.

 

[GHound]

The developer is removing the game from Steam because he is being harassed by the feminists and they are trying to dox him.

That's not very socially responsible of them.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

If Hatred isn't exempt of removal from Steam, why should this?

"muh feelings" isn't a good enough excuse, control freaks.

 

[Kacho]

The developer is removing the game from Steam because he is being harassed by the feminists and they are trying to dox him.

He doesn't want his name and fetish floating around the internet. Goonin' ain't easy.

 

[MarV0]

He doesn't want his name and fetish floating around the internet. Goonin' ain't easy.

He should use an alias like Stephanie Brother who is some middle aged broad that writes *drumroll* incest porn literotica.

Can't make this shit up.

 

[Randall365]

This is an honest take. That internal conflict is something I have thought about a lot since this thread started. You're not a hypocrite.

Hitman lets you do awful things, without question. But I think the difference lies in how those actions are framed and what the game is encouraging you to do and feel.

In Hitman, the violence is absurd and arguably satirical. It's framed as a puzzle with strategies. You're not rewarded for sadism, you're rewarded for stealth, creativity and timing. Drowning a woman in the toilet is a wild gameplay mechanic, not a sexualized power fantasy.

The game in the OP doesn't just include disturbing content, it is centred around abuse, rape, and incest as the reward. There is no satire, no broader narrative, just gratification through domination.

There is a line between narrative violence in service of a story or gameplay mechanic, and content that makes sexual abuse the goal with gratification the reward. I understand that line can be blurry at times, but intent and framing matter. And in this case, they're very different.

You are right in as far as in Hitman they only let you drown "targets" in the toilet and give you enough of a backstory to know that they are "baddies". It is a bit different to sexually assaulting your mother for having an affair. A little bit of narrative - and a "morally acceptable" crime, such as killing a killer - and there you are, all better!

 

[Zacfoldor]

It's basic knowledge, school shooters or pedos almost always get radicalized from watching videos online. If we did like parts of South America, where they show brutal graphic images in the news, you would get more beheadings here as well.

If alchol and cigarettes werent in TV and movies, it would be less of it in society.

If we put in more swimming pools more people will drown.

Should we outlaw those too?

There are laws already on the books. If Steam wants to know where the line is they would do well to look at the laws and not the protestations of the attention seeking.

As far as your argument, I'm so sick and tired of people trying to change my entertainment for the "good of society." I was sick of this shit when I was told that videogames created violence in real life and I'm sick of it now. Same preachy censorship just in a shiny new political wrapper. Can we just be real here a moment. Certain people in society are attention seeking and jealous. The seek out things to be offended over and to create attention from. Giving them the attention pisses off people smart enough to notice, like me. So you got 3 groups. Normal people, thoughtless followers, and attention seekers. What will they think of banning next? Who knows. It's arbitrary.

 

[RoboFu]

Who cares you can murder people in games, decapitate their heads, chainsaw their torsos off, drug them, turn them into slaves but some lame game about incest and domination is the problem? There's worst shit in women's romance novels.

There's a point where every person evolves from a regular person into a clutch pearling grandma, pray you haven't crossed it.

You are on a list somewhere aren't you ...

 

[Fahdis]

This game gave me the courage to beat my wife's boyfriend who lives with us. No Mercy.

 

[kevboard]

Who cares you can murder people in games, decapitate their heads, chainsaw their torsos off, drug them, turn them into slaves but some lame game about incest and domination is the problem? There's worst shit in women's romance novels.

There's a point where every person evolves from a regular person into a clutch pearling grandma, pray you haven't crossed it.

WORSE! THE COMPARATIVE FORM OF BAD IS WORSE, NOT WORST! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

but I agree with the sentiment...

 

[rodrigolfp]

He doesn't want his name and fetish floating around the internet. Goonin' ain't easy.

He is very welcome on f95zone.

 

[Hugare]

What happens if you kill civilians in hitman ? You fail your mission.

No you dont lol

Not at all

But when it promotes killing is ok, right?


Killing is ok? Cancel CoD, GTA, Mario, Zelda and almost everything else.

Yeah, its ok according to the US law.

Read my post where I posted ChatGPT response about this.

Define "obscene"?

Is this game more obscene than any movie with a rape scene? Even something like Irreversible with it's 10 min rape scene is still not illegal.

I haven't played this game but i would bet it's far more tame than this movie.

Also, there's a TON of sexual assault/rape scenarios in porn and it's pretty legal.

Watching a movie is a passive action.

Playing a game where you are controlling and role playing as the abuser is another story entirelly.

"I bet its more tame than the movie" lol, sure.

The porn game will have much more tasteful camera work, surely

 

[Walliwallipaloo]

It's cool that you finally have internet access in monasteries. But there's a lot of stuff about the world you have missed.

Do you know what you're trying to defend here? It's a "game" that's all about sexually assaulting innocent women. That's *all* there is to it. There's no nuance beyond that. It brings down the whole industry simply due to its existence.

There are just some things that are *obviously* wrong. This is one of those things, and it isn't even difficult to make the distinction. Enough with the frenzied, off-base whataboutisms. Glorifying sexual violence is *always* wrong. *Always,* no matter who's doing it. No matter the reason. It doesn't matter. But I guess this is normal for a lot of people, because the exploitation of innocent women has been a fixture in Hollywood for decades. So-called "slasher" films are all about that, aren't they?

And it's absurd to think being opposed to such disgusting garbage means you're a pro-censorship puritan. What a completely ridiculous position to take.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

You are on a list somewhere aren't you ...

Sure thing grandma, don't forget to carry your life alert for when you inevitably fall and can't get up.

 

[GHound]

Sure thing grandma, don't forget to carry your life alert for when you inevitably fall and can't get up.

This game is like a stairlift. It's driving people up the wall.

 

[PeteBull]

Do you know what you're trying to defend here? It's a "game" that's all about sexually assaulting innocent women. That's *all* there is to it. There's no nuance beyond that. It brings down the whole industry simply due to its existence.

There are just some things that are *obviously* wrong. This is one of those things, and it isn't even difficult to make the distinction. Enough with the frenzied, off-base whataboutisms. Glorifying sexual violence is *always* wrong. *Always,* no matter who's doing it. No matter the reason. It doesn't matter. But I guess this is normal for a lot of people, because the exploitation of innocent women has been a fixture in Hollywood for decades. So-called "slasher" films are all about that, aren't they?

And it's absurd to think being opposed to such disgusting garbage means you're a pro-censorship puritan. What a completely ridiculous position to take.

So we should ban all the women's erotic books that glorify sexual violence too? Or is it ok suddenly for it to sell hundreds of milions of copies?
Again- dont be hypocrite, bro, u dont care about the books with similar content that hundreds of milions of women across whole world(altho not gonna lie, most from western countries ;p) read to arouse themselfs sexually, but suddenly u wanna die on a hill of some niche steam game that sold few k copies?

Where is that famous equality that all the feminists are preaching left and right? Or maybe, just maybe, deep down even feminists know its pure bullshit
I can tell u for some unknown(not really ;p ) reason even here, in my polish smalltown 60miles away from russian border, women started to request i choke them durning "funky time" only few years after that "50 shades of grey" book got popular, degeneracy is spread far and wide already, everywhere

 

[12Goblins]

The people coming to the defense of this concerns me a bit.