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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
That was always the fun of watching wrestling, though it is disappointing that it's turned into what's the least bad thing they can do instead of what's the most awesome thing they can do.
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WWE Fastlane 2016 |OT| Roundabout to Wrestlemania
- Thread starter Angry Grimace
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That was always the fun of watching wrestling, though it is disappointing that it's turned into what's the least bad thing they can do instead of what's the most awesome thing they can do.
I think they just cry because I like Reigns while he clearly hurts their feelings. I see no need to make apologies for my enthusiasm for the Reigns Train. You didn't see me crying when you all were marking out over Bryan. Granted, I kind of like Bryan too, but people clearly take issue since they dislike Reigns. I'm sure I wouldn't be like that in their position because I'm not about that life.
Friend please.
This argument is utter crap. None of you know what you're talking about when you start discussing WWE business. None of you probably even have a clue how to read a financial report. Who are you all kidding? No need to sit here and pretend to be a bunch of business experts when you're not. Ratings just happen to be one those basic metrics folks seem to latch on to support their agenda when appropriate and discard when it doesn't.
I watched WWE religiously in the 90s. Gave up completely around 2001 and returned after just randomly tuning into RAW in December the night Roman won (I think the only thing on that night was college basketball and I was so fucking bored). While I think the product fucking blows... I do enjoy like the communal aspect of following it with GAF. Which is what has kept me watching in January and now February.
Yeah, it's rich. There's substance to the idea of ratings actually not being the end-all be-all, and ratings are on a downward trend across the airwaves, but I for some reason was constantly hearing the OPPOSITE before 2015 even though the paradigm didn't magically change last year out of nowhere...
You're not wrong about this post, but I think it applies to people on both sides of this smark/anti-smark shit.
Professor Beef
Banned
Fuck Punk.
The Silver
Member
Give us the report, top 5 pops and all that
Friend Verendus, you need to cut down on your sodium intake a tad.
Also fans latching onto ratings is WWE'S fault. Have you completely missed how WWE jerks off to all of the ratings talk from their past?
I don't even dislike Reigns. The guy had a match of the night with Big Show, for God's sake. But to act like this face push of his hasn't failed hard multiple times over multiple years is just flat out wrong.
And it didn't have to be this way. He could've gotten over organically over a period of time. People loved the Shield, and that goodwill could have carried him a long way. Hell, that goodwill is still helping to keep Ambrose over years after the fact. People loved watching Roman fuck shit up and be a beast. And if they hadn't shotgunned him into the main event so fast, he'd probably be one of the most over guys in the company these days. Because even now when people boo, they're not even necessarily booing him as a talent so much as what he represents. Pushed into the spotlight has only served to highlight all his flaws as a performer while simultaneously washing out all of his strengths. The way WWE has treated Regins these past two years is a disservice to his potential as a wrestler, and I almost feel sorry for the guy.
This isn't a Cena story. Cena's story is The Rock's story. A charismatic heel that people loved to hate, then they just loved. They wanted to cheer for Cena, and when WWE pulled the trigger on a face turn for him it fucking exploded. Questionable decisions took place after that, sure, and a large portion of the crowd turned on him. But John Cena is a star because WWE took their time building him up to be one, and he earned the adulation that got him into the main event. Roman wasn't given that chance, and it's not fair to him, honestly.
And it didn't have to be this way. He could've gotten over organically over a period of time. People loved the Shield, and that goodwill could have carried him a long way. Hell, that goodwill is still helping to keep Ambrose over years after the fact. People loved watching Roman fuck shit up and be a beast. And if they hadn't shotgunned him into the main event so fast, he'd probably be one of the most over guys in the company these days. Because even now when people boo, they're not even necessarily booing him as a talent so much as what he represents. Pushed into the spotlight has only served to highlight all his flaws as a performer while simultaneously washing out all of his strengths. The way WWE has treated Regins these past two years is a disservice to his potential as a wrestler, and I almost feel sorry for the guy.
This isn't a Cena story. Cena's story is The Rock's story. A charismatic heel that people loved to hate, then they just loved. They wanted to cheer for Cena, and when WWE pulled the trigger on a face turn for him it fucking exploded. Questionable decisions took place after that, sure, and a large portion of the crowd turned on him. But John Cena is a star because WWE took their time building him up to be one, and he earned the adulation that got him into the main event. Roman wasn't given that chance, and it's not fair to him, honestly.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I thought the ppv was decent.
KO and Ziggler had a good to great match. So did Becky & Sasha vs Team Bad.
Styles vs Jericho was great despite a couple botches. I liked that the crowd was into it with the chants.
The rest of the card left a bit to be desired. WWE appears to be determined to push Reigns. If they follow through with it, I honestly think HHH is going to be the face in that match.
The Edge & Christian show was kind of charming! I think there's a lot of potential there. Man, the ads for that didn't do what the show actually is justice.
KO and Ziggler had a good to great match. So did Becky & Sasha vs Team Bad.
Styles vs Jericho was great despite a couple botches. I liked that the crowd was into it with the chants.
The rest of the card left a bit to be desired. WWE appears to be determined to push Reigns. If they follow through with it, I honestly think HHH is going to be the face in that match.
The Edge & Christian show was kind of charming! I think there's a lot of potential there. Man, the ads for that didn't do what the show actually is justice.
Yeah this is a good place to be at. I wish wrestling discussion could get the fuck away from its focus on speculating about the business side of things. Nothing more I hate than hearing "So what if you don't like X, it's making them money." Yeah well I don't even give a shit about that. I don't have to care that Transformers movies make bank to call them trash either.
1. Brock coming out.
2. The last five minutes of the AJ/Y2J match.
3. The end of the IC title match.
4. The end of the women's tag match.
5. Edge's music hitting.
Hot crowd was hot, died down a bit when the LON came out instead of some NXT jabronis. Stayed cool for the Golden Truth miscommunication. Heated back up for the main event, which was good clean fun.
Crowd does not like Reigns at all here, which is kinda funny because they were up for everything else besides the League of Nations. Hell number six on my list would be the end of the Ryback/Kane in 2016/Big Shoot versus the Wyatts.
This is a good post. I think most people want to like Roman. Hell, I'm one of them. When Roman isn't putting out awful promos or no selling goddamn chair shots he's actually pretty decent. And his time in The Shield was fun as hell.
But WWE just can't seem to practice any kind of real patience with Roman and it's going to hurt him in the long run. It's like they've completely forgotten what made Austin, Rock, or Cena big stars.
Okay so can we talk about that awful Edge & Christian segment? Just rewatched it. TND look genuinely like petulant children and TLON pretty much confirmed that they'll be dead by the time Barrett leaves the company. Give Rusev a mic goddamnit!
Anyone see The E&C Show? How was it?
Anyone see The E&C Show? How was it?
JesseEwiak
Member
Reigns is good to great in the ring depending on his opponent. Sure, he's not good on the mic, but there's nobody in the WWE who'd be considered "good" on the mic if you sent them back to 1997, let alone to 1987, so I fail to see why that's an issue with him.
But, this is all subjective, so if you don't like him, so be it.
The difference is, most people who call Transformers who call trash don't spend hundreds of dollars for the right to boo Optimus Prime when he shows up on the screen. They just don't spend money on Transformers things. That's the difference - nobody sane says they should stop making Transformers movies because it's good for business, they say stop making them because they don't like them. OTOH, everybody on the Internet say if they just used their fantasy booking plan, it'd be a new boom period.
Fuck that haters, Roman should've won last year at Wrestlemania. All the loss did last year was give people another year to whine about his inevitable win at this year's Mania.
Professor Beef
Banned
Net_Wrecker
Member
So on a scale of 1 to trash, how bad is this WM about to be? Cause good lord was that a flaccid set up PPV
I was entertained by that segment until the League of No Heat showed up. Considering everything was a comedy bit up until then I was kind of hoping for an Enzo and Cass debut. Once the LoN showed up I was like "da fuq is this"
I also openly laughed when Del Rio tried talking shot to Edge because Del Rio apparently forgot he lost that feud at Wrestlemania
Low budget Canadian sketch comedy entirely based on wrasslin lore. Very fun mix.
Agreed to the quoted poster and this post. I liked Sheamus once upon a time too, and then they did the same shit with him, but not even half as bad and it was still terrible.
But of course Roman's not even the main reason the show sucks. I tuned out when Seth was still around. There's a lot more to pick at than just his push being bungled.
The Silver
Member
Would've been fine if they just let Rusev talk
Professor Beef
Banned
I will reiterate. Fuck Punk.
The most polarizing superstar strikes again.
JesseEwiak
Member
The truth is, it's impossible to book a 3 hour wrestling show that's consistently good. At least WCW had a roster of hundreds so you could waste time with 8 minute matches involving Villano IV and Mike Enos.
It's too bad they can't rent out AT&T Stadium for 2 days and just run NXT Takeover there.
Romans a symptom of a bigger problem.
Yes.
Because I don't tend to care or follow WWE's business model. The heck do I care about that. If you're all really that interested, maybe you should make the effort to actually learn what it is you're arguing against, because even without looking into it myself, I can blow holes in these kind of dumb arguments.
For example:
You said viewership is down to pre-attitude era levels. Well, here's the problem there friend. Viewership isn't just on TV now. The landscape has changed pretty drastically in the past fifteen years. You'd need to know their numbers for online viewing right now, dvr, as well as any repeat shows they have on other services, when these components became a factor, and whether there was a noticeable shift or hit in their viewership, and you'd have to compare and contrast over the many years (including the shift from 2 to 3 hours), while also factoring in whether other aspects of their business such as attendance, something that directly correlates to consumer interest, has taken a hit or whether it's stable or increasing etc. This is important since Raw is a huge advertisement for their brand, which is currently what you'd call a niche product. And I could go on and on here. Does that mean ratings aren't important? No, they are. Does that mean you all tend to look at ratings in a vacuum and come to conclusions without really knowing what you're talking about? Yes, it does.
Let's be honest, none of you are capable of this. None of you would have a clue where to start because you're not "businessmen" no matter how much arm chair analysis you do based on some ratings reports you get and occasionally look at while ignoring everything else. That's not me being harsh or taking in sodium (what is this, some way of trying to say I'm salty? come on friend, don't be childish), it's simply the truth.
Business talk in these Wrasslin' threads is worse than business talk on the gaming side. I have no idea why you all do it, and most of the time, it's just to get in some potshot against something you don't like. It's like if negativity had sex with negativity and gave birth to Satan.
What has the New Day been teaching you all? Has the lesson of the power of positivity suddenly disappeared? People died for this.
I mean, that doesn't apply to everyone who has a problem with the product though. My complaint is that even arguments based entirely on creative and quality get responses couched in defenses of the speculated inner business workings of the company. I hate that wrestling discussion can so very rarely just be about the quality of the product and it's not just one side of the equation that steers it in that direction.
That or to appear smarter than other fans.
JesseEwiak
Member
Sure, but the issue is, instead of finding competition that is closer to the kind of wrestling they prefer, far too many people want the WWE to shift their product to something that is not in the best interests of World Wrestling Entertainment. It's like wanting the next Avengers movie to be R - I may like that, but it'd be really fucking stupid business wise.
If you think the WWE is trash and decide to watch Lucha Underground, New Japan, or even God forbid, TNA, great. But, if you continue to give the WWE money, then complain when they don't change because you're complaining on the Internet about it or spending thousands of dollars on tickets and other assorted purchases for the right to boo the #1 babyface in the main event, then I really don't feel that much sympathy for your position.
Like I said before, companies respond to incentives. As long as you pay for the WWE in any way, shape, or form, that's an endorsement of their choices. You can explain it away that you really love NXT or want an AJ Styles shirt or whatever, but all of that cash is going into Vinny Mac's pocket, no matter how much you think it's a "bad" product because a product that gets you to spend money can't be that terrible.
Right or wrong, friend, it feels like you're carpet bombing an entire community's worth of opinions. I'd avoid doing that.
That random Curtis Axel vs R-Truth match was the weirdest thing on this PPV.
Also Kofi listing off all the teams that are worse than The New Day would have been a perfect lead into bring up Enzo and Cass. The League of ZZZ turning up ruined a segment that was going alright. It felt like a RAW segment by the end.
Also Kofi listing off all the teams that are worse than The New Day would have been a perfect lead into bring up Enzo and Cass. The League of ZZZ turning up ruined a segment that was going alright. It felt like a RAW segment by the end.
No, I'm not, because let's not pretend an entire community actually cares about discussing "ratings". It's probably the same half dozen posters going at it again and again. Most folks just discuss the show.
You're not wrong about this at least. It's why I unsubscribed in the middle of last year and haven't watched anything but NXT on Hulu since, excluding Bryan's retirement and the Rumble (on a free trial, to see AJ's debut in WWE because that was a surreal concept before then). And have been watching other stuff when I can, although sadly it's much less convenient and I already spend enough time catching up on other shows and anime to get too deep into it.
I'm glad LU exists because it's pretty close to my ideal version of wrestling in a lot of respects.
I think we could do without posts rubbing the inability of fans who do care to both partake in and affect the product in their faces, though. That's just spiteful, nasty shit.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Why would you want to see Brock v. Dean? They utterly buried Dean in that match to the point that Brock v. Dean makes no sense.
Dean beat the fuck out of Roman with a chair and his finishing move and Roman no-sold it.
Dean beat the fuck out of Brock and Brock no-sold every single move he did and sold repeatedly for Roman.
Dean looks like the biggest fucking chump in the company right now.
Officerrob
Banned
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, I don't know how anyone can say when we know 1 of the matches. On paper that one match is horrible because nobody cares who actually wins and both of the participants are mediocre wrestlers.
Yes, you kind of are.
And when people discuss the show, people bring up not liking Roman, which spins us down into this hole. So it's still talking about the show in a sense. You're starting to seem more like you're just salty that people are talking bad about someone you like. You're taking people talking about "the business" way too personally.
I'm with that guy. Who would you have Barack face from the current roster?
Personally, I'm not interested in seeing him face anyone except Reigns, and Orton who is currently injured. You're kind of stuck now with him which is why I find it bizarre how he has seemingly nothing to do. I like Ambrose so I'd enjoy their match. They just need to make it a no disqualification so Ambrose can use some weapons against him.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
why do you hate punk
ramoisdead
Member
One of the very few highlights that came from this awful PPV was the post-PPV interview with Kevin Owens.
aGuyInaBearSuit
Member
Vince makes the main event of his biggest show of the year a bout between his son-in-law and his golden boy who the audience has largely rejected.
It's a company run by nepotism.
It's a company run by nepotism.
Professor Beef
Banned
I wouldn't go that far. Despite Roman
It just logically seemed like that's where they were going. Them listing off all the teams they've beaten until Edge goes "But there's a team that's been called up from NXT you've never beaten!" and boom. Makes perfect sense. Instead, we got what we got.
WWE somehow managed to fuck up turning The New Day face, which should've been the easiest thing in the world.
Sometimes it really feels like they would rather do a stupid, illogical, unentertaining segment than do a good one that people can see coming.
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