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[Allandor]

That whole Del Walker thread is worth a read, tbh. Quite a bit of insight on how Series S impacts and sometimes limits the scope of current-gen games targeting XSX/PS5/PC.







Draugoth This is the original tweet by Del Walker. Just replace whatever you have there in your OP with this one and ask for a thread title change to remove the Suicide Squad bit.

Funny thing about this is, that a lower power PC doesn't have these problems.
Also, if you're game has problems with 18+ enemies on screen, maybe you didn't write near optimal code. This was even possible in older games, but somehow games can't replicate things that were possible 20 years ago with more than 10x the processing power.

Game development these days is really strange.
And we have things like Witcher 3 on the switch... well doesn't really look good, but it works. Yes I know, time is money and optimisations cost time, but we are already at a point where hardware doesn't evolve as fast as 10 years ago. So the solution can't be to not optimize anymore.

 

[BlackTron]

Funny thing about this is, that a lower power PC doesn't have these problems.
Also, if you're game has problems with 18+ enemies on screen, maybe you didn't write near optimal code. This was even possible in older games, but somehow games can't replicate things that were possible 20 years ago with more than 10x the processing power.

Game development these days is really strange.

Acting as if problems with how many independent items could appear on screen simultaneously hasn't been a thing since the very first game I ever bought had flashing sprites so they could add more by trading frames.

If a 20 year old game had 40 enemies on screen while just making steady 30FPS, and you doubled the complexity of those enemies, you would no longer be able to display 40 enemies. Well things have gotten substantially more complex and there may be more polygons in one model now than on the entire screen back then. While a big chunk of the power gains aren't going into design at all, just much higher resolution.

 

[Hugare]

MS did the whole parity thing between S/X in order to not alienate S users, and in the end, they dont give a damn about hardware anymore, 'cause they're going multiplatform and are focused on Game Pass.

So they've fucked up with Series X users for nothing. Games not being released on the platform due to S, and its not even that important for them anymore.

What a clusterfuck

 

[recursive]

I get the criticisms on the S, but at least be some acclaimed dev, like the ID Software dev who deleted his tweet after the MS acquisition, Larian when they delayed Baldur's Gate 3, or even part of a team which has had recent success like when the unnamed Wukong dev said that, but Suicide Squad?

Bruh, your entire game's existence was nuked pre-launch and are compared with Concord for DAU numbers. Sit your fuckin' 60 Metacritic ass down, you clown.

And yes, this is no defense of criticism, the S is harder and more resource consuming to develop for, especially among third parties and when your installed base is less than half of the leading console in current generation.

Just because the game was woke bullshit doesn't necessarily mean the technical limitations are any less on series s. I really don't see how a metacritic score invalidates this guy's opinion.

 

[Zuzu]

It really needed more RAM and at least 2 more teraflops to be somewhat decent.

 

[reinking]

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I look at the PC side of things and I want optimization for devices like Steam Deck. Black Myth: Wukong seems to be payable on the deck and even better on something like the ROG Ally X. So, is it actually the existence of the Series S that is the problem? Or, the parity clause MS/Xbox is enforcing?

 

[Allandor]

Acting as if problems with how many independent items could appear on screen simultaneously hasn't been a thing since the very first game I ever bought had flashing sprites so they could add more by trading frames.

If a 20 year old game had 40 enemies on screen while just making steady 30FPS, and you doubled the complexity of those enemies, you would no longer be able to display 40 enemies. Well things have gotten substantially more complex and there may be more polygons in one model now than on the entire screen back then. While a big chunk of the power gains aren't going into design at all, just much higher resolution.

More polygons is really not a problem. First those models can scale independently from resolution and even if the man the enemies look like crap. Can't be worse than on switch . Every console is a compromise but that is no excuse for delivering worse looking games than on ps4. It is just a matter of details and how good your engine scales. The problem with objects on screen is most of the time limited by CPU calculations and this is still the same. GPU things normally scale well. But nowadays switching one detail step down in the detail setting is is like nobody ever tested that setting (e.g last of us on PC without later patches).

 

[pasterpl]

That whole Del Walker thread is worth a read, tbh. Quite a bit of insight on how Series S impacts and sometimes limits the scope of current-gen games targeting XSX/PS5/PC.







Draugoth This is the original tweet by Del Walker. Just replace whatever you have there in your OP with this one and ask for a thread title change to remove the Suicide Squad bit.

is this guy really giving FFVl as an example? 720p game that in performance mode barely hits 40fps and then complains about 30fps in Avowed?

and all people keep forgetting PalWorld for some reason and lots of games that run well on series s.

 

[BlackTron]

More polygons is really not a problem. First those models can scale independently from resolution and even if the man the enemies look like crap. Can't be worse than on switch . Every console is a compromise but that is no excuse for delivering worse looking games than on ps4. It is just a matter of details and how good your engine scales. The problem with objects on screen is most of the time limited by CPU calculations and this is still the same. GPU things normally scale well. But nowadays switching one detail step down in the detail setting is is like nobody ever tested that setting (e.g last of us on PC without later patches).

Right, just push a button, let the system auto-scale everything. Game ready, no more work required.

 

[mckmas8808]

If Xbox was popular it wouldn’t have mattered. Devs are still porting to ps4 and Switch. What killed them was years and years of no games and bizarre focus on making gamepass popular in a world where most of the revenue is generated by a small handful of GaaS games.

The Series S made the bolded harder to achieve.

 

[CLW]

Notice he doesn’t deny saying the quote at issue + his shitty flag choice makes me think he’s a lying sack of shit

 

[ResilientBanana]

We shouldn’t blast these guys too soon. The engineers really did a good job on making a game engine that can handle a lot and provide some pretty decent graphics and animation. It’s the art style and the odd woke choices they made that sucked.

 

[genesisblock]

Funny thing about this is, that a lower power PC doesn't have these problems.
Also, if you're game has problems with 18+ enemies on screen, maybe you didn't write near optimal code. This was even possible in older games, but somehow games can't replicate things that were possible 20 years ago with more than 10x the processing power.

Game development these days is really strange.
And we have things like Witcher 3 on the switch... well doesn't really look good, but it works. Yes I know, time is money and optimisations cost time, but we are already at a point where hardware doesn't evolve as fast as 10 years ago. So the solution can't be to not optimize anymore.

40 enemies with simple animations and death states vs modern, high resolution textured NPC's, probably 10x more of the animation states along with ragdoll/inverse kinematics phyics. Oh, and on top of the environmental damage, lighting , reflections, shadows, RT, etc.

 

[solidus12]

Damn

 

[ChiefDada]

Still love my XSS.

Cuck.

 

[Allandor]

40 enemies with simple animations and death states vs modern, high resolution textured NPC's, probably 10x more of the animation states along with ragdoll/inverse kinematics phyics. Oh, and on top of the environmental damage, lighting , reflections, shadows, RT, etc.

Most of the things you describe are just CPU bound, so most stuff should also be limited on other consoles. RT, just forget this, can be deactivated (games do not depend on it as console in general are just limited in power here), everything else scales good with resolution. Especially assets. But nowadays it seems like most assets with lower polygon count (for different distances) are just Auto modified. Else I just can't explain how the desasteros textures can occur if you just drop one quality setting on PC.
Btw all the texture work is needed for different distances of a texture. So no extra work needed at least here. Everything should scale fine with resolution. No one expects that those games look the same as on the higher end systems. My point is just it is possible for years in PC gaming (steam deck is most prominent example in the lädt years) and still some always complain.

 

[genesisblock]

Most of the things you describe are just CPU bound, so most stuff should also be limited on other consoles. RT, just forget this, can be deactivated (games do not depend on it as console in general are just limited in power here), everything else scales good with resolution. Especially assets. But nowadays it seems like most assets with lower polygon count (for different distances) are just Auto modified. Else I just can't explain how the desasteros textures can occur if you just drop one quality setting on PC.
Btw all the texture work is needed for different distances of a texture. So no extra work needed at least here. Everything should scale fine with resolution. No one expects that those games look the same as on the higher end systems. My point is just it is possible for years in PC gaming (steam deck is most prominent example in the lädt years) and still some always complain.

I thought physics/animations are now GPU bound so your telling me a better CPU is can result with more NPC's with Red Dead style physics on screen?

 

[Allandor]

I thought physics/animations are now GPU bound so your telling me a better CPU is can result with more NPC's with Red Dead style physics on screen?

What can run on the GPU still can. Or do you want me to believe that most of the processing power of the bigger chips is invested in GPU tasks, that would hurt other tasks? Physics & co are still mostly done on the cpu, just because there are more than enough CPU resources. Games didn't evolve for a long time, except for graphics. And that is scalable. Just look at switch and steam deck.

 

[GHG]

Damn

It doesn't reflect well when these nutters are more honest and rational than some of the guys that post here.

 

[rotorfire]

I'm in two minds about the Series S. A few of my 40-something friends bought one - via Xbox All Access - so we could all game together, when they wouldn't have forked out for a Series X or PS5. I'm genuinely thankful for that. But realistically, they could have bought an Xbox One X or a PS4 Pro, and we'd still be playing 80% of the same games. Whilst the easier entry to current-gen is nice, I sure don't feel it's worth the cost to the Xbox platform overall. Ho hum.

 

[Kurotri]

Damn

He almost broke into tears

 

[RetroGamingUK]

It seems to be getting worse now what we’re getting next-gen exclusives that push the hardware.

This is going to get worse as the generation goes on isn’t it.

 

[BlackTron]

Still love my XSS.

Yeah me too as a Xbox 360 mini. Goes right with my SNES and Genesis minis

 

[Astray]

He's been posting more about it, he must have REALLY had enough lol.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Cuck.

Series S shits down the neck of PS4/5 with enhanced PS3/360 era greatness.

 

[proandrad]

Doing work sucks so much.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Damn

Did Addict cry at the end?

 

[mayham2199]

He's been posting more about it, he must have REALLY had enough lol.

I love how he points out the "lazy devs" comment. People were always saying that about any dev who complained.