SE is actually the Japanese equivalent of Ubisoft, if you want to look at a company that makes idiotic financial decisions and kills its old IPs in Japan it's - SEThey didn't disappointed but they actually did
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Yoshinori Kitase: 'Final Fantasy VII Rebirth' sales don't disappoint but they can't be exclusive to a single console anymore
Ridicululzz
Member
Well, it's good to hear the sales were OK. Really enjoyed the game.
Radical_3d
Member
I still think the biggest problem of this game is that the target audience had played the boredom of the first one. Now that I have a Pro I’ll play this one but I’m not expecting anything better in terms of game design.
Markio128
Member
And vice-versa.
Fabieter
Member
1. Because of China
2. Guesswork
3. 20% is still a better ratio than what ff xv had on Xbox.
But it doesn't matter anyway in absolut numbers it's still more what Xbox will ever do for a final fantasy game.
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Astray
Member
Square is a very dysfunctional publisher that is largely being held up by ff14 and some mobile games.
Going multiplat won't solve your problems when you've:
- Completely killed the identity of your flagship series and divided your fanbase to the point where you can't figure out how to communicate with them or serve them anymore.
- Continually make the worst and most over-inflated revenue forecasts, then continually shittalk your own performance for almost every game you make, then proceed to make no statements about revising your game design philosophy or even doing regular customer surveys to understand what's happening.
- Completely killed all diversity of genres in your portfolio and now have to primarily compete with yourself in the majority of releases you push out, because you only make JRPGs now.
- Managed to basically do next-to-nothing with Eidos' stable of developers and IPs. Entire brands like Legacy of Kain parked doing nothing, brands like Thief and Deus Ex getting sub-par management, IO Interactive getting ultra-frustrated with Square and buying themselves out.
- Wasted Marvel licenses at the very peak of the MCU's popularity by releasing a half-baked Avengers GAAS game and forcing their best western single-player dev team to make it. Said Avengers game manages to tank their otherwise great GOTG game by sheer proximity.
These are all problems that simply doing day 1 multiplatform won't ever solve. They need to work on improving as a publisher too.
Going multiplat won't solve your problems when you've:
- Completely killed the identity of your flagship series and divided your fanbase to the point where you can't figure out how to communicate with them or serve them anymore.
- Continually make the worst and most over-inflated revenue forecasts, then continually shittalk your own performance for almost every game you make, then proceed to make no statements about revising your game design philosophy or even doing regular customer surveys to understand what's happening.
- Completely killed all diversity of genres in your portfolio and now have to primarily compete with yourself in the majority of releases you push out, because you only make JRPGs now.
- Managed to basically do next-to-nothing with Eidos' stable of developers and IPs. Entire brands like Legacy of Kain parked doing nothing, brands like Thief and Deus Ex getting sub-par management, IO Interactive getting ultra-frustrated with Square and buying themselves out.
- Wasted Marvel licenses at the very peak of the MCU's popularity by releasing a half-baked Avengers GAAS game and forcing their best western single-player dev team to make it. Said Avengers game manages to tank their otherwise great GOTG game by sheer proximity.
These are all problems that simply doing day 1 multiplatform won't ever solve. They need to work on improving as a publisher too.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yah of course its because of China. Not sure if that's suppose to mean anything? Some games do well in Russia, some sell the best in Japan, some sell the best in US etc.
Gambit2483
Member
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Fabieter
Member
Tell me one other game that's sells like 80% of their copies in one country. BMW is an outier.
Not even dragon quest is like this and that's already extreme.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I am still struggling what does that has to do with everything. So the sales has to be evenly spread out across every countries? It doesn't count if a country account for most of the sales?
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ff13 sold 3 millions.
The portable consoles were still doing fine in Japan which is why Nintendo did a hybrid console instead of the usual duo of home and portable consoles. It worked well; the Switch is the best selling console in Japan but will probably not outperform Wii+DS (13 and 33 millions). Those FF15 numbers aren't bad considering ps4 sold 3x less in Japan than the Switch.
KingT731
Member
You can quite literally look it up. The game was significantly discounted by January.
delishcaek
Member
How about you provide the source for your claim? You said "Yes FFXV did 10M but the vast majority of the sales were in the bargain bin which doesn't necessarily help much."
Which is factually impossible to be true when 60% of the 10m sales are coming from its first month and then an additional 5-10% at full price when it came out on PC. We can safely assume that at least 70% from the 10m were either at or near full price. The exact opposite of your claim.
Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
There's so much hate surrounding this project that it's very sad to read. Fortunately for me Rebirth is like the perfect RPG but I'm curious to know what are the reasons people hate it so much besides:
Game being split into 3 parts
Added story elements
Did people really want a 1:1 remake with no surprises?
Game being split into 3 parts
Added story elements
Did people really want a 1:1 remake with no surprises?
asdasdasdbb
Member
Trophy Whores do apparently.
Fabieter
Member
Your example is an outlier. Following your argument, since 80–90% of their sales came from China, they could effectively ignore other regions and still maintain similar success.
Your comparison to a Japanese JRPG doesn't hold because those games all have historically performed poorly on Xbox. Final Fantasy XV wasn’t statistically an outlier in that context.
And even if we count this once in a blue moon scenario of BMW. In absolute numbers it would still trash the Xbox sales of Final Fantasy games.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Fabieter
Member
ShadyAcshuns
Member
It's mostly push back due to an eager fan base over-rating it by miles and miles, and the totally unjustifiable position of the 1:1 advocates. Also, from what I've seen, people disliked the high amounts of filler and open world design. Not to mention the fact it was stuck on PS5 only for a while.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Why should we ignore other regions and not consoles in that case? Seems nonsense
Where’s the source for the region split for Black Myth Wukong?
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Fabieter
Member
Well we could ignore consoles but in the same way we could ignore anything outside of china.
The tracker they are using had BMW at 76% from Chinese players when they had 17m sales on steam. And the game was available on other Chinese pc stores as well.
Anyway it doesnt matter since BMW is selling better on ps5 than any JRPG did on xbox so your initial argument is nonsense.
Dr. Acid Avatar
Member
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.
Interfectum
Member
They aren’t talking about Xbox…
Bernardougf
Member
I have to be honest.. coudnt get into it.. the whole thing they did with the Summons felt a little shit to me ... but I dropped the game fast so maybe it got better later... I just really wasn't enjoying the gameplay.. so for me the last great one was X. Someday Ill give 12 another chance.
Last fucking incredible numbered FF game.
Bernardougf
Member
No is not.. if they can give 85 to an absolutely dogshit incomplete FF game.. what means an 92 ? For me nothing... maybe your logic is different... and thats why for a long time scores and metacritc dosent mean fcking nothing anymore.. outside circle jerking and warring between fanboys.
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Bernardougf
Member
Thats is a good point... the ps5 really had a shitty year.
Hero_Select
Member
Then this applies to literally every game ever and the point you're trying to make is moot.
Crayon
Member
The game is wildly different because they stuck fairly close to the source material. Midgar was a lot of setup and largely linear. When that was done, I thought they would have to adapt this game to constrain the scope of the world. Nope. You get out of midgar and just like the original game, there is a whole enormous world out there. It really feels like a totally different game.
Skelterz
Member
In all fairness to tabata he salvaged what he could of a development hell situation. it was being worked on for around 10 years before they took nomura off the project, and it wasn’t playable from start to finish tabata got it done and it was a shit game but it was doomed long before tabata nomura is a clown.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Oh, so you throw me back a guesswork on reddit. Funny.
Nope, we're not going to ignore consoles in the same way we could ignore anything outside of china.
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Fabieter
Member
They used a tracker for that. We always use them to gather sales but it not good enough for regional splits I guess. Anyway let's end the discussion here.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
When a game launches the marketing driven hype can only happen once. Not trying to capitalize that on platforms the game will eventually launch on is really fucking stupid, especially if sales of this increase chances of sales for the 3rd game.
Whatever sales they get on PC will be less than they would have been on PC if it launched alongside the PS5 version.
Fabieter
Member
Yea its the same with all the early access games which are coming to consoles years after release for more money than on pc. Most of those bomb on console and devs do still focus on pc.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Exclusivity isn't the problem. Thats just cope.
Square Enix released a multiplatform Avengers game that bombed. Sony released an exclusive Spider-Man game that did 20 million on one console before it went anywhere else.
PC ports have not and will not save Square. I don't expect Rebirth to do very much better on Steam than Remake at all. FF16 didn't.
Xbox ports might actually start losing them money going forward.
Switch 2 ports might help them, but this is assuming that the games they will have to make compatible with the switch 2 will be appealing to the audiences willing to pay for them. Octopath 2, anyone?
This isn't an argument for PS exclusivity from SE, it's just pointing out that the appeal of the actual game matters.
FF16 is an unholy mixture of lame, and I identified that in a much kinder set of words way before it came out. Low rent Game of Thrones imitation and watered down DMC combat that works in sales for literally nothing but DMC = SUCK.
Final Fantasy VII Remake? Eh, the OG is iconic, but not to the point that it justified a generation's worth of budget and time to make a full trilogy out of. It's not even the highest selling FF.
Square Enix released a multiplatform Avengers game that bombed. Sony released an exclusive Spider-Man game that did 20 million on one console before it went anywhere else.
PC ports have not and will not save Square. I don't expect Rebirth to do very much better on Steam than Remake at all. FF16 didn't.
Xbox ports might actually start losing them money going forward.
Switch 2 ports might help them, but this is assuming that the games they will have to make compatible with the switch 2 will be appealing to the audiences willing to pay for them. Octopath 2, anyone?
This isn't an argument for PS exclusivity from SE, it's just pointing out that the appeal of the actual game matters.
FF16 is an unholy mixture of lame, and I identified that in a much kinder set of words way before it came out. Low rent Game of Thrones imitation and watered down DMC combat that works in sales for literally nothing but DMC = SUCK.
Final Fantasy VII Remake? Eh, the OG is iconic, but not to the point that it justified a generation's worth of budget and time to make a full trilogy out of. It's not even the highest selling FF.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Square Enix when they released the final part of the trilogy and sales jump and they realise people just waited
There will be an element of that holding sales back for sure.
They can tell people how "complete" each entry is unttl they are blue in the face, but its unfortunately self evident that its a pre-existent older story/game that's been broken into 3 parts!
To be honest I think a major problem SE has right now generally is that their marketing seems sloppy and clueless. I really don't feel like they do a go job of selling their product compared to how they used to. Their trailers are cut-together poorly a lot of the time and even when the source material is good it fails to elevate it.
graywolf323
Member
Octopath is actually an interesting example of this, Octopath 1 was Switch exclusive for a year & then only came to Steam for the longest time yet sold more on Switch + Steam alone IIRC than the sequel did despite being multiplatform from the start (last figures I can find have the first game at 3+ million in 2022 so before it even came to PS4 finally vs. 1+ million for the sequel)
hinch7
Member
Glad it sold well at least, the game deserves it. But yeah day one sales on PC will boost interest dramatically. If they decide to release future series and ports on Switch 2 as well that would be nice as well.
They just can't afford to just take money hats from Sony anymore. FF isn't the powerhouse it once was.
They just can't afford to just take money hats from Sony anymore. FF isn't the powerhouse it once was.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
And with how long apart each instalment the chances of the final installment being on PS6 as well as PS5 is highly likely, what's also likely is Remake/Rebirth also being ported and bundled as one package at a reduced price.
I really can't blame people if they want to wait, regardless how long the actual games are.
You're still waiting years to continue the story that was told in one release originally.
Why have an inconsistent experience when you can have a consistent complete package by waiting for it to be completed.
asdasdasdbb
Member
It'll be a PS5 game. Although PS6 having PS5 BC is pretty likely.
Maybe not reduced but perhaps they will throw the first two parts as a Preorder bonus.
If Part 3 ends up being about as long as Remake was, you are talking about 100 hours for just the Main Story. Can't see too many people who haven't played even Remake (which was offered as a PS+ game at one point) doing that.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Truth is that (if the game is good enough) exclusivity on the correct platform will actually increase sales comparatively. If even just for the prestige/platform warz aspect of being exclusive.
Had Persona 4 Golden not been exclusive, particularly to the Vita, the conversation around the franchise would be more akin to where Tales of is now. Better than before, but not being the new cornerstone of JRPGs.
Even the record breaker P5 was only on PlayStation consoles for the longest time - if it came out in the same technical state as the recent Metaphor as a result of the multiplatformism, things might've been different.
Other than culture warz stuff that didn't result in huge sales one way or the other, Stellar Blade only mattered at all because of PS exclusivity in a dry year for the platform.
Forza was better when it was actually exclusive to just Xbox. Same goes for Halo. Although it's Gamepass that really put a dent in the sales for both, I think they'd be selling worse now than past exclusive iterations even without it.
As a third party, this is only relevant for Square insofar as it impacts the quality of their titles; because exclusivity in a scant year for the PS5 other than Spider-Man didn't save FF16. But then again, if it was multiplatform at launch, it would've been even more of a technical misfire than it was.
Life Diff
Member
Whilst it isn’t a measure of how many players have picked it up on PC it hardly set the world on fire on steam. FF7 Remake part 1 has a lowly 13,800 peak player count on steam.
I would be shocked if Xbox even sells 100k if it did release on the platform not as part of gamepass.
I would be shocked if Xbox even sells 100k if it did release on the platform not as part of gamepass.