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[Bernardougf]

Square says sales didn’t disappoint, but supposedly it’s sub par

Game has one of the highest meta scores this gen, sub par

Game has wonderful fan reception, sub par

FFXV that absolutely dogshit awful incomplete game has an 85 metacritic...so 92 from that is really nothing meaningful

I would say after so many subpar FF games since FFXII (imo) and changes FF has its own pretty contained and very passionate fanbase that will always buy, hype and love whatever SE shits out ... much like COD or FIFA just only on a much smaller scale...

Right now FF has a ceiling and a floor pretty well established with uts remaining faithful fans, so saying "fans" received well an FF game is like saying that FIFA or COD was well received by its fans.. well not shit.

Im playing trough FFVI for the first time right now.. and is mind boggling how the same company who made this absolutely gen is also making shitty modern "FF" games for so long.

 

[JORMBO]

With everyone playing Switch in Japan I think they will do better if they can get their stuff on Switch 2 in the future. Also ignoring PC and porting later probably is not a smart choice.

I also think turning the last mainline FF game into an action game and removing most RPG elements was a bad choice. A lot of fans were not into it. And the action combat was not deep enough for action game fans. If FF17 is more tradional and on PS/Switch/PC I think they will sell better. There's still a market for turn based combat.

 

[Fabieter]

Im playing trough FFVI for the first time right now.. and is mind boggling how the same company who made this absolutely gen is also making shitty modern "FF" games for so long.

They really should target switch 2 and port to all the other platforms. With less pressure on graphics they might deliver a game that will sell better than xvi.

 

[Dorfdad]

I meant Switch 2. I thought that was obvious. My bad.

In short, games that struggle on PS5 won´t be ported to Switch 2. Simple.

Naw they will they will just have things toned down quite a bit. If the rumors of ps4 pro docked are true I think we can expect a lot of 1080p / 40 mobile and 1080p/60 docked games possibly upscale to 4k-ish

 

[TehGoomba7s]

I love the smell of salt in the early morning.

He's not wrong. Xbox gamers have been conditioned to "wait for gamepass". I don't know anyone that has an Xbox that acknowledges Death Stranding exists because it isn't on gamepass.

 

[adamsapple]

I would say after so many subpar FF games since FFXII (imo)

Last fucking incredible numbered FF game.

 

[Three]

This is a joke right? You've done that using multiple examples in this very thread so your premise is false already. As have many others, you can scan through the big Activision acquisition thread for numerous examples, I shouldn't have to find individual quotes for you.

What sort of messed up logic is this when I'm giving the examples where nothing of this sort happened. about how this narrative of "they were idiotic for not going multiplatform and sinking the franchise" happened for the titles.
the developers of those games like Dead Rising 4, Scorn, The ascent, even Stalker did not get called out for "exclusivity stupidity" whatsoever. For "missing out on day one PS sales".

Using another example, despite MS publishing Rise of TR, people relentlessly hounded Square over it not being on PS on release so much that their US president had to make public statements about it. It's brought up pretty often here on GAF as well.

Don't act like a fool, you know all this very well.

no they hounded them to know if it was coming to PS or not because MS tried to hide the fact that it was a last minute timed exclusive and PS4 preorders were pulled from stores before gamescom. Once it was known to be timed exclusive I don't remember the people who are constantly complaining now ever complaining about how stupid Square enix was in that instance for taking such a deal. You weren't complaining that SE destroyed the TR brand with xbox exclusivity were you? You were making fun of SE for their high expectations for TR instead

Fuckin' Square.

3.4 million in 4 weeks for TR multiplatform, 3 million in 3 days FFXVI only on PlayStation. Keep up the good work though, you're making Papa Phil *mighty* proud

Tomb Raider has sold 3.4 million copies, failed to hit expectations

3.4 million copies of Tomb Raider have been sold in four weeks, publisher Square Enix has revealed, which is not enough…

www.eurogamer.net

Their own estimate doesn't include digital sales. Regardless, Square being needlessly disappointed in their Western divisions sales is a pretty well known meme at this point.

Also, it's a third party game, what does Phil have to do with this?

Yet the people pointing out that it's more SE estimations for a declining franchise that are a problem now and not the exclusivity they're "lecturing SE". Of course you agree with Ozriel now in this instance.

 

[Punished Miku]

He's not wrong. Xbox gamers have been conditioned to "wait for gamepass". I don't know anyone that has an Xbox that acknowledges Death Stranding exists because it isn't on gamepass.

I got Death Stranding and I already had it and didn't even like it the 1st time.

 

[delishcaek]

Yes FFXV did 10M but the vast majority of the sales were in the bargain bin which doesn't necessarily help much.

The game sold 8m copies in its first two years. The vast majority of that 8m at full price... 6m in its first 6 weeks and then an additional 500-750k when it launched on PC. There are no bargain bin deals for a successful game in its first 12 months, so the other 1.5m units sold at worst at 40% off on PSN.

They sold an additional 2m copies from 2019-2022. The heavy discounts started in 2020 where it dropped below 20 bucks for the Royal Edition thanks to a permanent price cut to 35 bucks.

FFXV is the fastest selling Final Fantasy game and it IS the last successful one. Now... how much or if it managed to damage the brand is a different question. It certainly wasn't a bargain bin success, though.

 

[adamsapple]

no they hounded them to know if it was coming to PS or not because MS tried to hide the fact that it was a last minute timed exclusive and PS4 preorders were pulled from stores before gamescom.

??????????????????????????????????

The game was announced as an Xbox console exclusive at Gamescom 2014, which happened in August 2014.

The game itself came out in November 2015.

A whole year and change *after* it was announced as an exclusive.

Take a break from posting, Three.

 

[Sophist]

Final Fantasy games used to compete against Nintendo AAA games like 3D Mario and Zelda for the best-selling titles from Japan, but now it has regressed so much thanks to the time-exclusive approach that failed to grow the franchise further in the current generation.

Old generation
Mario 64 - 12m
Zelda OOT - 8m
FF7 - 10m

Current generation
Mario Oydssey - 28m
Zelda BOTW - 33m
Zelda TOTK - 21m
FFXVI - 3m
FF7Rebirth - 2.5m

Japanese market died. In Japan, FF7 sold >2 millions after two days. FF16 only had sold 330K after one week.

 

[OuterLimits]

Those 5 sales on Xbox and switch will really make the difference

JRPGs tend to do well on Switch though. Not sure why FF wouldn't have decent sales on Switch 2 if the port is not a dumpster fire.

 

[lh032]

Every third party game are going to land in Switch 2, if something is going to explode are going to be the sales of both FF7R.

i have a feeling FF games still wont sell on the switch, but we shall see.

 

[Three]

??????????????????????????????????

The game was announced as an Xbox console exclusive at Gamescom 2014, which happened in August 2014.

The game itself came out in November 2015.

A whole year and change *after* it was announced as an exclusive.

Take a break from posting, Three.

I don't mean "last minute" from release. The game was already heavily in development when the decision for timed exclusivity was made. The game was announced at June 2014 E3 without exclusivity. Shops put up the preorders for both PS4 and xbox one. Later at Gamescom it was announced as xbox exclusive (apparently because xbox/Phil wanted an Uncharted competitor). Shops pulled the preorder pages for PS4. SE and MS were pressured into clarifying that it was a timed exclusive having not mentioned this caveat at all. The game came out the following year as a timed exclusive and even later to PS4.

 

[LordOcidax]

i have a feeling FF games still wont sell on the switch, but we shall see.

If the game comes out in the release date of the Switch 2 it’s going to do some really good numbers. Even 12 Switch sold around 1.5 million at launch.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Dude, Doom and Doom Eternal came to the original switch.

Any game can come to any system with enough graphics tweaking.

If that were true, I think they would've also released it on PS4 since it didn't make as much of a profit on PS5 as they had anticipated. Remake was a very demanding game, and Rebirth blows it out of the water in terms of visuals. I hope it shows up on Switch 2 because I love the franchise and want it to do well.

 

[Hero_Select]

FFXV that absolutely dogshit awful incomplete game has an 85 metacritic...so 92 from that is really nothing meaningful

lmfao

The leaps in logic it takes to come to that conclusion is absurd.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Sony guys.

Look, it's not that Sony are any less important than when they used to do these deals more commonly. Its just that budgets are so High they literally can't do it anymore.

That's all it is.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Can you explain how what you said no longer applies for this specific title?


Are they living in a fantasy and shooting themselves in the foot or not by not releasing day one?

Of course they are shooting themselves in the foot missing ps5 day one. I think it would have sold pretty well on ps5 and I genuinely do think it would have reviewed better if it was on day one. Which would have driven more excitement and even more sales from all platforms but especially the playstation platform as they are the users that do buy more games day one.

I think that's just a fact at this point. I imagine with the late announcement for ps5 launch a quarter after was due to it not being ported in time. I think it was a late decision in development probs from pappy Satya.

Hopefully in the future they can increase support to get as many games as poss to launch on ps day one.

I think if games are as good as Indy they just need to be everywhere to give the chance of the game getting a sequel or keeping the studio afloat.

It's pretty obvious that the gaming industry is in trouble at the minute and I just want good games.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

If that were true, I think they would've also released it on PS4 since it didn't make as much of a profit on PS5 as they had anticipated. Remake was a very demanding game, and Rebirth blows it out of the water in terms of visuals. I hope it shows up on Switch 2 because I love the franchise and want it to do well.

Platter drive would have made that a little hard.

And while their numbers are not small, people still on PS4 aren't buying new games.

 

[Synless]

If that were true, I think they would've also released it on PS4 since it didn't make as much of a profit on PS5 as they had anticipated. Remake was a very demanding game, and Rebirth blows it out of the water in terms of visuals. I hope it shows up on Switch 2 because I love the franchise and want it to do well.

Rebirth could have run on ps4, I have zero doubts of this. Fact of the matter is if Horizon Forbidden West can run on ps4, so could have Rebirth.

Optimization is key here. They made a bad choice not releasing it on ps4 as well.

 

[adamsapple]

Rebirth could have run on ps4, I have zero doubts of this. Fact of the matter is if Horizon Forbidden West can run on ps4, so could have Rebirth.

Optimization is key here. They made a bad choice not releasing it on ps4 as well.

Looking at the assets in the game, I'm of the thought that it *was* going to be a cross-gen game until some point in the development. There's nothing in the game, visually, that couldn't run on a PS4 at lower resolutions and frame rates.

I'm guessing / assuming it was Sony's guiding hand that made Square make it a PS5 only game to sell the new console.

 

[Ozriel]

So? So did Street Fighter 5 yet xbox forum fools did the same song and dance about capcom selling its soul, doing something idiotic and losing sales for the franchise. Nobody really does this for the xbox paid exclusives though. Nobody comes out and says what a thickhead X or Y publisher is for skipping PS and taking xbox money.

Street Fighter 5, a third party game in a franchise, with the previous iteration a mainstay on Xbox 360…and exclusivity secured by Sony specifically to keep the game off Xbox.

And then you’re comparing it with new IP Scorn and Ascent from indie developers, The Ascent in particular being made by 12 devs?

You’ve certainly developed a fascination with apples to oranges comparisons.

And you’re really claiming there was no uproar about MS paying for Rise of The Tomb Raider exclusivity?

They should have been blaming Phil for cancelling or delaying Zenimax games but obviously they were cheering both the acquisition and the exclusivity. Square didn't release Octopath 2 on xbox initially (released on PC, Switch and PS) and again people were complaining about squares strategy. So what it was PC and Xbox when their strategy was giving up PS sales? Nobody is allowed to complain then?

Context is dramatically different for first party studios and first party titles. This has been pointed out to you multiple times in the conversations so you’re just trolling at this point.

Which people complained about Square’s strategy for OT2? Certainly not in this thread where you contributed significantly

Platform - Octopath Traveler 2 isn't on more platforms due to an internal decision Square Enix made "after observing the sales of other titles"

https://www.pushsquare.com/features/interview-octopath-traveler-2-devs-on-series-goals-the-first-game-skipping-playstation-and-more The first Octopath Traveler isn't available on PlayStation platforms, but its sequel is. Why did you decide to make Octopath Traveler II a multiplatform release...

www.neogaf.com

No, it's more Square Enix telling people what they want to hear after people like Arthands and co were complaining throughout the year about the strategy

So multiple Square Enix execs publicly committed to ditching exclusivity deals because of complaints on NeoGAF?

which before the PC release they were saying was great.

That article specifically talked about the critical reception and focused on quality levels.

Execs - as you’d expect - focus on commercial reception.

 

[Ozriel]

It even closed the whole dead rising studio.

The studio was pretty much kept afloat by Microsoft money, with Dead Rising 3 and 4 funded and published by Microsoft.

Dead Rising 4 was unpopular with fans, with a 72% MC rating. It sold poorly as a result, in contrast to DR3 that sold better even against a much smaller install base.

Studio would likely have closed much earlier without MS money and projects propping it up.

 

[Synless]

Looking at the assets in the game, I'm of the thought that it *was* going to be a cross-gen game until some point in the development. There's nothing in the game, visually, that couldn't run on a PS4 at lower resolutions and frame rates.

I'm guessing / assuming it was Sony's guiding hand that made Square make it a PS5 only game to sell the new console.

I agree with you fully. It’s obvious somewhere there was an ask to keep it as PS5 only, which I believe was a mistake.

 

[Ozriel]

I'd go as far to say that Switch 2 should be the lead platform for Final Fantasy going forward.

That’s likely to happen after the final FF7R release, tbh.
From 2025, I doubt you’ll see many AAA JRPGs without Switch 2 release day one.

 

[rofif]

FFXV that absolutely dogshit awful incomplete game has an 85 metacritic...so 92 from that is really nothing meaningful

I would say after so many subpar FF games since FFXII (imo) and changes FF has its own pretty contained and very passionate fanbase that will always buy, hype and love whatever SE shits out ... much like COD or FIFA just only on a much smaller scale...

Right now FF has a ceiling and a floor pretty well established with uts remaining faithful fans, so saying "fans" received well an FF game is like saying that FIFA or COD was well received by its fans.. well not shit.

Im playing trough FFVI for the first time right now.. and is mind boggling how the same company who made this absolutely gen is also making shitty modern "FF" games for so long.

Ff xv is amazing. What a fantastic, unique game.
I liked 16 and rebirth too mind you. But xv is better than rebirth

 

[Neofire]

might as well make your game for Xbox as well.

Yup because SE is going to go under if they don't release their games on Xbox.

 

[ArtHands]

It never should have been but I have to ask how many xbox owners are really going to buy one of these games. Other mainline FF games that launched day and date on xbox sold around 20% of what the PlayStation version sold. Maybe they are talking about switch 2 more than xbox?

20% is bigger than how much Black Myth Wukong sold on PS5 compared to PC.

 

[FoxMcChief]

if indiana jones can be a success on a dead platform (so they say)...FF on a thriving platform certainly can be too.

but do it, SE. put your games everywhere, even on IPhones.... then you will realize that the issue is the fact that you are not even a shadow of your former self and have been milking dry this IP with subpar products

I think the issue is likely the crew is being mismanaged and money being spent isn’t being audited. I’m not saying people are outright stealing, but I think most departments are probably just ok with spending money because it’s not “their” money.

 

[Fabieter]

It never should have been but I have to ask how many xbox owners are really going to buy one of these games. Other mainline FF games that launched day and date on xbox sold around 20% of what the PlayStation version sold. Maybe they are talking about switch 2 more than xbox?

It's closer to 10% probably even less. The 20% was in the best Xbox markets.

20% is bigger than how much Black Myth Wukong sold on PS5 compared to PC.

Do we have numbers for that? We do know that ff xv sold like 20% in xbox best markets.

BMW ps5 version probably sold relatively close to the PC version outside of china though.

 

[Ozriel]

It never should have been but I have to ask how many xbox owners are really going to buy one of these games. Other mainline FF games that launched day and date on xbox sold around 20% of what the PlayStation version sold. Maybe they are talking about switch 2 more than xbox?

The sole calculus driving porting decisions should be whether or not the port is profitable.

If (for example) it costs an incremental $2 million to port the game to Xbox and it sells 300k copies, that’s profit. Not to mention further expansion of the target audience.

But for sure, multiplatform support from Day 1 will be more profitable on Steam and Switch 2.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I think the issue is likely the crew is being mismanaged and money being spent isn’t being audited. I’m not saying people are outright stealing, but I think most departments are probably just ok with spending money because it’s not “their” money.

There was certainly mismanagement. I don’t think there were any financial shenanigans. just very poor direction and misplaced priorities (maybe lack of talent too). The luminous engine is one of the biggest failures in gaming; basically, 10 years wasted. Capcom went from pantha rei to RE Engine in a span of 4 years and shipped like 11 games in 7 years. i don't know how SE is not in more financial trouble

 

[asdasdasdbb]

i don't know how SE is not in more financial trouble

Maybe the MMO is popular in Japan. The sales of "Digital Entertainment" is like 50-50 Domestic despite Playstation being dead there.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

20% is bigger than how much Black Myth Wukong sold on PS5 compared to PC.

just use an outlier game that sold 99% in china to prove a point somehow

 

[Madflavor]

Maybe the MMO is popular in Japan. The sales of "Digital Entertainment" is like 50-50 Domestic despite Playstation being dead there.

FFXIV has been doing a ton of heavy lifting in terms of helping SE weather out some of their financial woes, but even that isn't going to last forever. Lately XIV has been upsetting fans because the story has gotten a lot worse, and many of it's player are tired of how risk adverse CBU3 is to the game's typical formula and approach to everything. To dungeon design, patch roll outs and it's type of content, even the MSQ is feeling formulaic. The 2nd half of Dawntrail's story practically follows the same structure as Shadowbringers and Endwalker.

All of this is to say that unless FFXIV has a major shake up soon, then Square won't be able to rely on the MMO like they used to.

 

[ArtHands]

It's closer to 10% probably even less. The 20% was in the best Xbox markets.



Do we have numbers for that? We do know that ff xv sold like 20% in xbox best markets.

BMW ps5 version probably sold relatively close to the PC version outside of china though.

Black Myth Wukong sold 20m+ on Steam alone. I am sure PS5 ain’t touching anywhere near 20% of that.

 

[bender]

Last fucking incredible numbered FF game.

Divide by 2 and we are in agreement.

 

[CLW]

They are CRAZY if they think they will gain anything more than DOZENS of sales on xbox

 

[havoc00]

Phil wins again

 

[violence]

It helps when they can focus.

 

[intheinbetween]

They are CRAZY if they think they will gain anything more than DOZENS of sales on xbox

Lmao, like Atlus didn’t benefit by finally releasing SMT, Persona and Metaphor on XBOX, probably they sold less than dozens on XBOX from franchises less popular in the west than Final Fantasy.

 

[Astray]

Because there is a strong possibility it will ship only with a cut down version of windows ("Xbox OS") designed around restricting users to their store.

There's no appx version for steam, the only way you'd be able to install it (along with all the other storefronts/launchers and the games that reside within them) would be via a dual-boot scenario which also gives you access to full-fat windows on a separate partition.

Will be hilarious when that thing ships without Steam (because why would valve share their royalties with Microsoft and create further entrenchment for them in their business?).

Why would anyone adopt Steam OS if Microsoft is just gonna get a steam app in there?

Next "Xbox" is likely going to be a direct competitor to Valve because they're trying to push SteamOS to OEMs now.

 

[Mayar]

This is a temporary patch, if they do nothing and do not change their approach, this step will not give them anything. They already tried to do this in the past when FF13 (which by the way was multi-platform) caused huge material damage to the company. And their super smart decision was - they stopped indicating the sales of all 3 games separately, they just started adding all 3 games together and saying that FF13 was sold in such a quantity (brilliant decision, you can applaud it).

All they will get is mediocre sales on several platforms - but if you add it up, it doesn't look so bad in the eyes of investors. They should first analyze, for example, why the FF series games stopped selling in Japan in principle, and what happened in general, take measures and try to fix something.

 

[kindaGoth]

If a game isn’t designed ground up specifically for a console then being tied to a console only hurts us.

 

[pulicat]

Japanese market died. In Japan, FF7 sold >2 millions after two days. FF16 only had sold 330K after one week.

Final Fantasy vs Xenoblade
Japan physical sales

Xenoblade 1 (2010) - 163k
Final Fantasy 13 (2009) - 1.9m

xenoblade 2 (2017) - 304k
Final Fantasy 15 (2016) - 1.1m

Xenoblade 3 (2022) - 215k
Final Fantasy 16 (2023) - 436k

 

[Three]

Which people complained about Square’s strategy for OT2? Certainly not in this thread where you contributed significantly

Platform - Octopath Traveler 2 isn't on more platforms due to an internal decision Square Enix made "after observing the sales of other titles"

https://www.pushsquare.com/features/interview-octopath-traveler-2-devs-on-series-goals-the-first-game-skipping-playstation-and-more The first Octopath Traveler isn't available on PlayStation platforms, but its sequel is. Why did you decide to make Octopath Traveler II a multiplatform release...

www.neogaf.com

Then you must be darn blind. If you know I was contributing to it then you must have read those posts? I contributed to it because people were complaining about the SE strategy. I laid out their strategy of waiting for upfront payment from xbox for gamepass and possibly getting a late port if ever. And guess what actually happened in the end?

"Which people complained about Square’s strategy for OT2? Certainly not in this thread"

oh gee I wonder which people.
How did you miss this for example?

Square "we don't know what the fuck we're doing" Enix.

You even liked that post. you yourself indirectly called it a mistake:

Even Square have done multiple 180s and admitted to having gotten things wrong, with respect to their games.

This guy was even spamming the thread with that crap.

So with roughly 100 million sales between Xbone and Series consoles Squeenix organically didn't think it was worth putting out a port?

Squeenix took a look at a 70,000,000 user base, and said, "Fuck em."

How are you coming in here and claiming people weren't complaining about their strategy even though it was a PC/PS5/Switch release?

 

[SSfox]

Sony are losing everything. Gran Turismo is the only PlayStation exclusive IP worth while at this point. The rest is mostly western games filled with awful weird design. Luckily for them gta6 is coming and will boost PS5 cause it's not on PC no one give af about Xbox anymore, it's almost like a PS5 exclusive.

 

[Mayar]

Sony are losing everything. Gran Turismo is the only PlayStation exclusive IP worth while at this point. The rest is mostly western games filled with awful weird design. Luckily for them gta6 is coming and will boost PS5 cause it's not on PC no one give af about Xbox anymore, it's almost like a PS5 exclusive.

 

[GymWolf]

They didn't disappointed but they actually did