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[Resident_UA]

This is insane. Putin managed to brainwash the whole country and I can't even blame him. Russians have pretty good access to the internet and only recently the government started "moderating" it. If people really wanted to they could get the truth, but they choose to believe Putin. From the few conversations that I did have with Russians, some of them do believe that they are "better" people...

This won't end well...

 

[ksan]

Yep, it was really nice to keep Finland as a quasi-democracy, I would seriously consider voting yes for NATO in both Sweden/Finland because of a quite widespread sentiments like this in combination with the actions of Russia recently.

 

[Septy]

An interesting read, thanks OP

The only reason they are enjoying the quality of life they currently have is cause of the fall of the USSR & the rise in domestic oil/gas production, without that they would be far worse off. Additionally conflicts in Chechnya/Dagestan would have torn the entire Caucuses region apart & they wouldn't have had much of a military to stop it (rusty soviet arms without all that oil/gas money)

.

Russia probably would have been far better off if the USSR had been able to transition to the planned, Renewed Soviet Union.

Of course, this was stopped by the hardline communists who staged a coup, brought the country to its kness, and then there was the years of a drunken Yeltsin destroying the country, piece by piece.

 

[CornBurrito]

If I were a psychologist I'd love to research the phenomenon of people having nostalgia/lust for time periods they weren't around for. People everywhere seem to do it.

 

[Dilly]

Communism and human nature are not compatible.

 

[jstripes]

Ha ha ha ha! That was a good joke. Communism working. Wake up! In every country that has been run by a communism regime, it has FAILED hard. It can never work.

Communism is a reasonable idea that has one fatal flaw: It fails to take into account basic human nature. You're always going to have sociopaths who rise to the top, get as much as they can, and make life suck for everyone below them.

Most of the people I've met throughout the years who were most in favour of communism, libertarianism, or anarchy were exactly the type who would suffer the most under those systems.

 

[mnz]

Is normal, in Chile most young people want Allende's government back, even though it was a complete disaster, just 1000 days to destroy the country. In Peru people want the old Incaic glory days, even if that society treated is people like crap. If you see surveys in Germany, you'll see a lot of people wanting Nazi back. Mexican revolution was fueled by people wanting the old Mexicas domination back, and they made human sacrifices.

Not surprising at all. And no, communism can't work, ever.

Show me a single one.

 

[la_briola]

Is normal, in Chile most young people want Allende's government back, even though it was a complete disaster, just 1000 days to destroy the country. In Peru people want the old Incaic glory days, even if that society treated is people like crap. If you see surveys in Germany, you'll see a lot of people wanting Nazi back. Mexican revolution was fueled by people wanting the old Mexicas domination back, and they made human sacrifices.

Not surprising at all. And no, communism can't work, ever.

This is a straight up lie. Please remove this shit.

 

[Aylinato]

Ha ha ha ha! That was a good joke. Communism working. Wake up! In every country that has been run by a communism regime, it has FAILED hard. It can never work.

I thinkk the closest communist regime is Venezuela. Name a country where it Was communist and the masses owned the means of production, and where the government wasn't actually a totalitarian dictatorship.

 

[ksan]

Communism is a reasonable idea that has one fatal flaw: It fails to take into account basic human nature. You're always going to have sociopaths who rise to the top, get as much as they can, and make life suck for everyone below them.

And the virtues of an efficient price setting mechanism.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

It's so true, one of best friends is like this. Despite being born in 1992, she talks about USSR like it was some golden Empire full of Unicorns and Rainbows.
She also think Putin is the best, she always says she loves him. Love, never like.

 

[IISANDERII]

I think it's even more basic than that: It's like seeing a war movie and wanting to be part of it. But then you think for 2 seconds and realize bad idea.

 

[Accoun]

Quite a lot of old people in the former republics and satellite states agree with the kids in Russia.

They just want to be young again.

 

[rudieboy77]

Ha ha ha ha! That was a good joke. Communism working. Wake up! In every country that has been run by a communism regime, it has FAILED hard. It can never work.

China says hello and Vietnam is still going. Not to be a broken record but there has never been a true communist nation. Also when you have an entire other half of the world actively trying to sabotage your economy of course it will be hard to succeed. Your argument reminds me of the GOP argument that government doesn't work, when they are the ones who short circuit the methods for government working in the first place.

These young people never had to live in the dictatorship that was the Soviet Union. I bet they wouldn't like it too much.

 

[MacNille]

I thinkk the closest communist regime is Venezuela. Name a country where it Was communist and the masses owned the means of production, and where the government wasn't actually a totalitarian dictatorship.

Well, just look how it is in Venezuela now. the economy there is in the toilet and the capital has one of the highest murder rate in the world.

This one thing that piss me off to no end. It is the "no true scotman" argument. You wanna know why there has been no " true communism" nation? Because it is fucking impossible! It doesn't work at all and it will never work. And they buttfucked their own economy on their own just fine. Don't blame it on the west. Soviet fucked up their farm system so bad, that they had to import food from US.

 

[Sub_Level]

Is this the Russian version of some Americans wanting to go back to the good old days of the 50s?

Let me take you back to a simpler time. The good old days.

 

[ksan]

Is this the Russian version of some Americans wanting to go back to the good old days of the 50s?

Let me take you back to a simpler time. The good old days.

More like the Russian version of Germans wanting back the third reich.

Spoiler

which I have never heard of

 

[Manmademan]

China says hello and Vietnam is still going. Not to be a broken record but there has never been a true communist nation. Also when you have an entire other half of the world actively trying to sabotage your economy of course it will be hard to succeed. Your argument reminds me of the GOP argument that government doesn't work, when they are the ones who short circuit the methods for government working in the first place.

These young people never had to live in the dictatorship that was the Soviet Union. I bet they would like it too much.

China isn't communist- at least nowhere near the definition that the Soviets use when referring to the USSR. Vietnam isn't exactly a grand success story for communism either- and neither is cuba.

There has never been a "true communist" nation, but there is no "true capitalist" one either. most modern governments are hybrid systems of capitalism and socialism to varying degrees, with the odd dictatorship here and there. The soviet implementation of communism that they attempted to spread around the world during the cold war is and will always be entirely unworkable, which is what we're discussing here- not a theoretical fantasy interpretation that might exist if mankind had never discovered greed or self interest.

 

[jstripes]

China says hello and Vietnam is still going.

I don't know much about Vietnam, but I really wouldn't use China as an example. China has two distinct sets of laws, and the communism is basically window dressing at this point.

 

[Septy]

More like the German version of wanting back the third reich.

The USSR wasn't just Stalin or his era, the country can't really be compared the Nazi Germany in that way.

 

[Slayven]

Communism is a reasonable idea that has one fatal flaw: It fails to take into account basic human nature. You're always going to have sociopaths who rise to the top, get as much as they can, and make life suck for everyone below them.

Most of the people I've met throughout the years who were most in favour of communism, libertarianism, or anarchy were exactly the type who would suffer the most under those systems.

Yes, not enough people take in to account people can be dicks sometimes. I mean even Libertarian could work if human behavior was logical and rational.

 

[Real Hero]

I don't know much about Vietnam, but I really wouldn't use China as an example. China has two distinct sets of laws, and the communism is basically window dressing at this point.

Wasn't it always? I don't think China was ever gunna transition into a stateless economy.

 

[Kabouter]

Is normal, in Chile most young people want Allende's government back, even though it was a complete disaster, just 1000 days to destroy the country. In Peru people want the old Incaic glory days, even if that society treated is people like crap. If you see surveys in Germany, you'll see a lot of people wanting Nazi back. Mexican revolution was fueled by people wanting the old Mexicas domination back, and they made human sacrifices.

Not surprising at all. And no, communism can't work, ever.

Show me these surveys.

 

[ksan]

The USSR wasn't just Stalin or his era, the country can't really be compared the Nazi Germany in that way.

Well, true, but it's as fucking stupid.

 

[rudieboy77]

China isn't communist- at least nowhere near the definition that the Soviets use when referring to the USSR. Vietnam isn't exactly a grand success story for communism either- and neither is cuba.

The soviet implementation of communism that they attempted to spread around the world during the cold war is and will always be entirely unworkable,

Communist Party of China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

The person I was responding to said it has always failed, that is not correct. Though absolutes usually are never correct. Why was it unworkable? I pointed to it in my first post. It wasn't unworkable in and of itself, but because of outside forces.

 

[Manmademan]

Communist Party of China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

The person I was responding to said it has always failed, that is not correct. Though absolutes usually are never correct. Why was it unworkable? I pointed to it in my first post. It wasn't unworkable in and of itself, but because of outside forces.

This doesn't really refute my argument. The fact that there is a party that calls itself "The communist party of china" is meaningless when you consider that their actual economy is capitalist.

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/china-yes-its-capitalism

http://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2013/how-china-became-capitalist

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2043235,00.html

 

[jstripes]

Wasn't it always? I don't think China was ever gunna transition into a stateless economy.

From what I understand, production used to be centralized.

But the modern "Special Economic Zones" are a free market orgy of party-connected elite taking full advantage of a peasant class with zero rights and a complete lack of safety and health regulations, and ripping everyone off with impunity. The only time the elite are punished is when it makes the country look bad in the global media.

 

[rudieboy77]

This doesn't really refute my argument. The fact that there is a party that calls itself "The communist party of china" is meaningless when you consider that their actual economy is capitalist.

In your post you acknowledged hybrid ways of governance. My point still stands not every country that is communist has failed.

EDIT: The last two articles you posted basically tout how well China's centralized view helps stimulate capitalism. So capitalism works best through socialism... I wonder how well Wall Street likes socialism. Ask Bear Sterns if they would have accepted some socialism before they went out of business.

 

[StayDead]

I would be happy to discuss that communism was not bad and could work if it was not so ludicruously stupid and a beaten horse.

Also staydead, I would like for you personally to not quote my posts. I sincerely think that you are one of the worst posters here and don't think it productive to discuss with you.

If you're going to be rude like that without actually refuting any of my points then I'm happy never to reply to you again.

Maybe my wording was bad which I'll admit isn't my strong point, but people after me have even came and said similar things to the point I was trying to make. Communism has never been given a fair chance of working and that's by countries using a different system.

You kind of outlined why Communism will never work yourself in your last sentence. To make it work you'd have to fundamentally change human nature, hence it will never work. Let's face it, a lot of nations tried and it was always a failure.

I don't personally believe that being greedy is human nature. It's just certain people have far too much power over everyone else and it's that power that allows them to be like that.

 

[Seth C]

Young Russians want to die in a silly war they won't have a chance of winning? Super. I won't stand in their way. When it's over the victors can divide the country up.

 

[Manmademan]

In your post you acknowledged hybrid ways of governance. My point still stands not every country that is communist has failed.

of course i did. All forms of governance are hybrid. there's no such thing as "pure" capitalism, "pure" socialism, or "pure" communism. any country that tried would implode spectacularly.

When we refer to communism, we refer to it's historical implementation- that is the model embraced and adopted by the soviet union and it's satellites during the cold war- all of which either failed miserably or struggled by at subsistence levels (cuba).

China doesn't use that model, and it's current success is a result of moving more towards a capitalist society than anything close to what we understand as "communism".

so the poster you quoted is correct- the soviet implementation of communism (which itself was a hybrid style of government and not 'pure communism') is entirely unworkable and everyone trying it has failed.

In your post you acknowledged hybrid ways of governance. My point still stands not every country that is communist has failed.

EDIT: The last two articles you posted basically tout how well China's centralized view helps stimulate capitalism. So capitalism works best through socialism... I wonder how well Wall Street likes socialism. Ask Bear Sterns if they would have accepted some socialism before they went out of business.

Of course it does. pure capitalism is unworkable. I've said so many times. The US does not have a purely capitalist society, and relies heavily on socialist programs (social security, welfare, medicare and medicaid, bank bailouts, Fannie and Freddie, the state university systems, etc) to function. "wall street" (or american business) is no exception- there is a ludicrous amount of corporate welfare doled out by the state in the form of tax breaks, cash, government contracts and other investments that many private companies are completely reliant on.

 

[Crimson-Death]

Fucking Puto, I mean Putin.

I wonder how much of a nuisance the younglings of Russia will truly become one day.

 

[rudieboy77]

of course i did. All forms of governance are hybrid. there's no such thing as "pure" capitalism, "pure" socialism, or "pure" communism. any country that tried would implode spectacularly.

When we refer to communism, we refer to it's historical implementation- that is the model embraced and adopted by the soviet union and it's satellites during the cold war- all of which either failed miserably or struggled by at subsistence levels (cuba).

China doesn't use that model, and it's current success is a result of moving more towards a capitalist society than anything close to what we understand as "communism".

so the poster you quoted is correct- the soviet implementation of communism (which itself was a hybrid style of government and not 'pure communism') is entirely unworkable and everyone trying it has failed.

He/She didn't type "Soviet" style communism.

 

[Manmademan]

He/She didn't type "Soviet" style communism.

it's understood when talking about "communism" since that's the only relevant implementation that's ever been used, and this is a thread about russian nostalgia for the USSR.

again, china is an invalid example since they aren't communist- they're currently a hybrid capitalist/socialist system exactly like the US- though leaning more on the socialist side of that spectrum.

 

[Phantast2k]

I find it funny how people who never been to Russia think they know more about USSR and communism than the russian youth.

There is a wealth of literature on the history and even common life of / within Soviet Union.

The poll did not explicitly ask if people wanted back communism, but the Soviet Union.

If the pollsters asked whether they wanted back the SU and communism, the results would be quite different, I'm sure. Above all the prospect of not being able to participate in Western consumerism / enjoy Western media while also not being able to leave your country must sound like hell to 18-24y olds.

The real topic here is SU as the last Russian empire. Even if they lived during that time, going back to the SU must not sound too bad to morally corrupt individuals.
Ethnic Russians were basically the Herrenvolk of the Soviet Union, similar to Han Chinese in China.
Russians were incentivized to settle in the republics and got rewarded with government jobs and leading positions in Soviet combinats and kolchozes.
They were over-represented in universities, cultural institutions and all the other white collar occupations you can think of. At the same time, the local cultures / languages got marginalized by their Russian counterparts (sans the RU Orthodox church). So much so that speaking other languages was considered dumb / savage.
Why else would the republics brake the fuck away as soon as they could?

The only redeeming quality to all of that was that people could become Russian by legally changing their nationality to Russian (they referred to it as ~overwrite oneself to be Russian) so it was more of a soft chauvinism in the second part of the 20th century, while it the first we had stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor, among other things.

So yeah, even if they weren't spoon fed by Putin's propaganda, their parents (at least some of them) would still tell them about how awesome it has been to be Russian in the Soviet Union.

 

[rudieboy77]

it's understood when talking about "communism" since that's the only relevant implementation that's ever been used, and this is a thread about russian nostalgia for the USSR.

again, china is an invalid example since they aren't communist- they're currently a hybrid capitalist/socialist system exactly like the US- though leaning more on the socialist side of that spectrum.

LOL yeah China is exactly like the US. Except here moderates are called socialists and there is no 82 million member communist party.

 

[Manmademan]

LOL yeah China is exactly like the US. Except here moderates are called socialists and there is no 82 million member communist party.

which has exactly what to do with the economic model of china and the united states? Whether the ignorant fling about "socialism" as a pejorative is completely irrelevant. Whether a political party has "communist" in the name is completely irrelevant.

Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea in any way, shape, or form Democratic? Because this is the argument you're making here.

 

[Ecotic]

I wish Russians would understand that nothing's stopping them from being a strong nation again, but you have to do it the way the world works now, which means a strong and diverse economy, fresh ideas, a culture that attracts the best and brightest, and being at the forefront of human rights.

Russia of course, is none of those things, so it makes sense for people there to long for the glory days when having the world living under the fear of nuclear war at least made Russia very relevant. When more people in the world care about South Korea because they're carrying Samsung phones than they care about Russia for having lots of nukes, then it's easy to see how little relevance Russia has nowadays.

 

[Never Forever]

Yeah, I've been studying the rise and fall of the USSR over the past two years and it's been absolutely fascinating. The vast majority of people seem to dislike Gorbachev in Russia, which is in direct contrast to how he is generally well-liked in the West, precisely because of how he is viewed as having brought about the end and how he 'gave up', even though he was fighting to save it until the very end and everything spiralled out of his control. He thought that he could save the system by working within it.

I don't think people are necessarily nostalgic for the ideological part, communism and the Five Year Plans and all the rest of it, because by the time of Brezhnev it was all careerism anyway what with the nomenklatura etc, but to the greater public there seemed to be far greater stability and quality of life was on the up and up (even if numbers show that it was stagnating dreadfully). The end of the USSR is directly contrasted with the subsequent Yeltsin period, which was a complete shambles and a tragedy for the people, heightening the disparity and making the USSR seem even more like the 'glory days'. The economic system had collapsed without a new system that could actually take its place.

What the people and Putin have in common is the idolisation of the USSR's 'superpower' status, which is a large part of nationalist sentiment. The belief that they were part of a strong nation had a big impact on the cultural mindset and increased belief in the USSR more than communism did, really. Even though, in actuality, the USSR was massively overspending on the military-industrial complex in order to maintain parity with the USA in a manner which was completely unsustainable.

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah, I've been studying the rise and fall of the USSR over the past two years and it's been absolutely fascinating. The vast majority of people seem to dislike Gorbachev in Russia, which is in direct contrast to how he is generally well-liked in the West, precisely because of how he is viewed as having brought about the end and how he 'gave up', even though he was fighting to save it until the very end and everything spiralled out of his control. He thought that he could save the system by working within it.

I don't think people are necessarily nostalgic for the ideological part, communism and the Five Year Plans and all the rest of it, because by the time of Brezhnev it was all careerism anyway what with the nomenklatura etc, but to the greater public there seemed to be far greater stability and quality of life was on the up and up (even if numbers show that it was stagnating dreadfully). The end of the USSR is directly contrasted with the subsequent Yeltsin period, which was a complete shambles and a tragedy for the people, heightening the disparity and making the USSR seem even more like the 'glory days'. The economic system had collapsed without a new system that could actually take its place.

What the people and Putin have in common is the idolisation of the USSR's 'superpower' status, which is a large part of nationalist sentiment. The belief that they were part of a strong nation had a big impact on the cultural mindset and increased belief in the USSR more than communism did, really. Even though, in actuality, the USSR was massively overspending on the military-industrial complex in order to maintain parity with the USA in a manner which was completely unsustainable.

all great points here.

 

[Lucky Forward]

NORAD: Fighter jets scrambled after Russian bombers spotted off California

Authorities say two F-22 fighter jets were scrambled after a pair of Russian bombers were spotted 50 miles off the coast of California earlier this week, Reuters reported, citing a NORAD spokesperson.

It begins...

Smith said the Russian planes' flight appeared to be part of a routine training mission, which Russian aircraft have carried out dozens of times in recent years in the ADIZ.

Well...maybe not.

 

[sn00zer]

Young russians should go visist the other countries under USSR control that werent Russia and see how much they enjoyed the 'glory days'

 

[Septy]

It doesn't work at all and it will never work. And they buttfucked their own economy on their own just fine. Don't blame it on the west. Soviet fucked up their farm system so bad, that they had to import food from US.

Both China and Russia went from being completely broken societies to global superpowers in a pretty short space of time. So, it's not like communist governments were complete failures.

 

[dark_chris]

It missed the best part - Lenin coming from the dead

 

[Rebel Leader]

Show me these surveys.

Holy hell. THat can't be real.

 

[Kyzer]

Ha ha ha ha! That was a good joke. Communism working. Wake up! In every country that has been run by a communism regime, it has FAILED hard. It can never work.

What a scientific response!


Yo can someone explain to me how USSR went from Lenin to fucking Stalin? Who fucked that up?

 

[Zekes!]

I'm feeling nostalgic about the days of Genghis Khan

 

[Goro Majima]

Is normal, in Chile most young people want Allende's government back, even though it was a complete disaster, just 1000 days to destroy the country. In Peru people want the old Incaic glory days, even if that society treated is people like crap. If you see surveys in Germany, you'll see a lot of people wanting Nazi back. Mexican revolution was fueled by people wanting the old Mexicas domination back, and they made human sacrifices.

Not surprising at all. And no, communism can't work, ever.

If the Holocaust didn't happen, I would find this more believable. I just can't imagine Germany having any desire for their "glory days" (Nazi or Imperial) on a large scale because of those atrocities.

I'd like to know if there are young people in England who want their imperial days back? Or the Japanese wanting their empire back?

 

[sixteen-bit]

spoilers for the new COD?

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

What a scientific response!


Yo can someone explain to me how USSR went from Lenin to fucking Stalin? Who fucked that up?

Stalin was appointed as General Secretary, a relatively low position in the Bolshevik party. After the Communists won the civil war against the White faction, Stalin gradually rose to power throughout the 1920s. When Lenin died in 1924, Stalin competed with other high-ranking party members like Trotsky to fill the power rift. He ultimately won through tactics of intimidation and violence. The very same tactics he later used when he ran the USSR.