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[SmokedMeat]

Aonuma said, whilst modern games "can accept a player's own decisions and give them the freedom to flexibly proceed". This is the design philosophy of the Zelda team at Nintendo, he stated, though he added "I do have to admit making games that way always carries with it additional development costs"

Has he played modern games?

Modern open world games are essentially linear sections where you run to an icon and then play out the linear mission and get your reward. The only choice is whether you want to do them or not.

The only games that accept a players decisions and give them flexibility on how to proceed are immersive sims - which are few and far between.

 

[KXVXII9X]

The thing is that the old Zelda games like OoT were linear but they didn’t feel linear. If you’re good enough at maintaining that illusion of an open ended adventure then that’s good enough. It’s when you sense the straight line that it’s an issue. Which is how Skyward Sword felt.

I think OoT still has some of the best open world design. I felt open and free, while still being focused and paced well. I loved all the secrets in the world and naturally exploring. It didn't feel completely overwhelming.

 

[KXVXII9X]

If he's talking about AAA then he's pretty much right. What was the last AAA game you played that was truly linear? That didn't give the player some sort of agency in how to proceed?

Super Mario Wonder.

 

[Pejo]

With the kind of money Zelda makes, they should be able to fucking do both. Let another team pick up the top down 2D Zelda games and then keep moving forward with the other shit. It's not that hard to conceptualize.

If Mario + Rabbids can exist alongside Super Mario Bros Wonder, we can have both Zelda types.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Right, but that doesn't mean we need every future Zelda game to just be another BotW or TotK. That will get exhausting real fast. I think there's a world where linear and not so linear can go hand and hand. But leaning hard into one or the other can be problematic, but there's a lot of variables.

 

[Hugare]

Variety is the spice of life. I dont mind Zelda being open world when other games scratch my linear games itch.

With that said, make a Zelda with a less boring story, better sidequests and better dungeons (yeah, better than TotK even) and then we talk

The problem is not the open world formula per se, but the execution. ToTK was an improvement over BotW but it was far, very far from being perfect.

And I doubt that they couldnt make some old school zeldas while making open world ones. Nintendo has the budget.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Has he let the success of open world Zelda go to his head?

We need both.

 

[RoadHazard]

Aonuma hates Mario, Miyamoto isn't gonna like that.

(I fully agree about Zelda though. No going back now. Although for the next one I hope they make the main story a bit more linear even if the game itself is still very open-ended. TOTK has a more linear story than BOTW, but it's up to you if you want to see it play out in the right order or completely mixed up, which I found pretty weird.)

 

[Deerock71]

Open-world with linear elements is where it's at.

 

[Astral Dog]

I prefer the other style of Zelda games

Going open world still makes sense for Zelda but its not something i would want to see in every game,open world games tend to fit tedious filler and slow pacing

 

[Astral Dog]

If he's talking about AAA then he's pretty much right. What was the last AAA game you played that was truly linear? That didn't give the player some sort of agency in how to proceed?

RE4 Remake was pretty awesome(other examples RE7,DMC5,FF7R,DOOM), its not black and white i think there are real benefits for 'linear' games, open world and everything in between

 

[fart town usa]

Just a reminder that there's no good reason to sell old consoles if that's your only way to access those games of the past. 2x scalers are cheap. If you disagree with his comments, you can always stick with the classics you love.

 

[The artful mincer]

If he's talking about AAA then he's pretty much right. What was the last AAA game you played that was truly linear? That didn't give the player some sort of agency in how to proceed?

Resident evil 4 remake.

 

[balls of snow]

Open world metroid. Lets fucking go.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

As someone who enjoys both BoTW and ToTK, no. There is just way too much bloat in these new Zelda's and while it is fun at first, it does get old. I think ToTK is the first Zelda game that I started that I never finished. Also don't really agree that the old Zelda's are "linear".

At the end of the day in open worlds you have to go from A to B.

And to me, here lies the problem with open world. I'm sure there is probably some type of exceptions out there but pretty much every game will have this to complete some objectives or to get to a certain area. It's just mindless fluff a majority the time.

 

[GigaBowser]

linears zelda had lower sales and scores my friends hes right

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Is the Fastest Selling Nintendo Game

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom holds the world records for fastest-selling Nintendo game and fastest-selling Zelda game.

www.siliconera.com

 

[GigaBowser]

OOT remake still possimble please use TOTKS engine if we has to play this old game again

Zelda Boss Responds to Ocarina of Time Remake Rumors

Nintendo remains dodgy when it comes to a modern version of Ocarina of Time.

comicbook.com

 

[InterMusketeer]

But then we did hear the desire from fans for a bit more of a designed dungeon, and that led to our approach to dungeons for Tears of the Kingdom.

He already answered his own question. A big open world with simple, boring content can't replace carefully crafted dungeons and puzzles.

I think the team was just whiplashed by the reaction to Skyward Sword, which was completely undeserved IMO. Now we're stuck with these games that take forever to make and require way more investment for worse content. I can only hope they'll change their mind.

 

[Balducci30]

I’ve gotten open world fatigue lately. And it’s not really due to the fact that it’s a non linear, open world game - it’s that developers are kind of stagnant on how to progress open worlds to the next level I think.

An open world, in the sense he’s talking about, being able to make your own decisions, etc - would be way more impressive if games still weren’t so limited. All of em are essentially a big map you run around and interact with in a very limited way. You can’t actually do whatever you want to do or what you would think of doing if it was like real life, and all the freedom of real life - because games are limited.

You only get a certain amount of options, it usually changes nothing whatever you do, not in any meaningful way at least. And since there’s so many stories go on they all tend to be lower quality, same with the environment itself, it’s usually just not crafted that well - cus it’s so big. And it all results in a game that just feels like checking things off a list or something.

 

[mayham2199]

We need both linear and open world games. I don’t want every game turn in to open world and vice versa……I want variety.

Exactly. Just like sometimes I want a deep story heavy game and then I want something that just puts me in the world with minimal story and I start killing people like AC6.

I personally like the old Zelda formula better. This open world thing didn't work IMO because the bosses were boring. Zelda bosses used to be fun. There was one boss where I already had the revival spell and I just button mashed the next boss, died, kept button mashing and won. I went ahead and beat the game but I don't think I can ever forgive them for such lazy boss design.

 

[-Minsc-]

Well excuse me Aonuma. I haven't played a Zelda game all the way through since OG Wind Waker. My aging brain won't be able to process the expansiveness. It's like when an entire group stopped gaming with the switch from 2D to 3D. We can't handle it.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Can we update the OP? Aonuma is series producer. Miyamoto created Zelda. This is like basic Nintendo history 101.

 

[Shut0wen]

I get what hes saying and im fine with that, i still believe we will get the linear games from time to time to fill in the zelda gap, would be surprised if we got another skyward sword kind of game next before the next big zelda game, worked pretty well on switch compared to the wii version

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Has he played modern games?

Modern open world games are essentially linear sections where you run to an icon and then play out the linear mission and get your reward. The only choice is whether you want to do them or not.

The only games that accept a players decisions and give them flexibility on how to proceed are immersive sims - which are few and far between.

That doesn't make any sense.

Open world games allow you to set your own objectives.

Linear games handcuff you down a strict path that eliminates player objectives.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

linears zelda had lower sales and scores my friends hes right

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Is the Fastest Selling Nintendo Game

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom holds the world records for fastest-selling Nintendo game and fastest-selling Zelda game.

www.siliconera.com

Everything is just a snapshot in time. You could say with 100% certainty back in 2007 that Twilight Princess was far and away the best selling Zelda game ever. Because at that time it was. Skyward Sword was a very late-gen game and it required motion controls, but normally each new home console Zelda outsells the prior one.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Everything is just a snapshot in time. You could say with 100% certainty back in 2007 that Twilight Princess was far and away the best selling Zelda game ever. Because at that time it was. Skyward Sword was a very late-gen game and it required motion controls, but normally each new home console Zelda outsells the prior one.

False. You could not say "far and away" considering it barely outsold OoT.

You can only say "far and away" when it comes to Breath of the Wild and TotK considering how much better they sold

 

[Dacvak]

Okay Aonuma. Are movies also a thing of the past? They’re pretty linear.

Dumb take, but also he was probably talking off the cuff. It’d probably help to hear the inflection in his voice instead of reading plain text.

 

[SenkiDala]

Can we give back the keys to Miyamoto ? Honestly I prefer his vision of Zelda than Aonuma's.

That type of games that are like "Lego" and that you need to find how to have fun like "hey look you're in an empty world with a post it long plot/story, there are this this and that building/cooking/crafting mechanic, now have fun bye" that is really not my type...

I likedBOTW (not loved, liked) and TOTK is quite nice to play too but to me Zelda isn't an outstanding, top1 franchise anymore, and that is because of BOTW and TOTK.

 

[SmokedMeat]

That doesn't make any sense.

Open world games allow you to set your own objectives.

Linear games handcuff you down a strict path that eliminates player objectives.

You don’t set your own objectives, the game does. The game might allow you to choose the order, but there’s no real freedom. You’re doing exactly the same thing as everyone else.

As I stated in my post your only choice is whether or not to tackle side missions.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

We need both linear and open world games. I don’t want every game turn in to open world and vice versa……I want variety.

Nintendo knows this. And I’m sure the sales of the Link’s Awakening remake assured another one is in the works in the classic formula.

A personal fantasy of mine is a high-budget OoT remake in the way that Square remade FFVII

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

False. You could not say "far and away" considering it barely outsold OoT.

You can only say "far and away" when it comes to Breath of the Wild and TotK considering how much better they sold

Yeah, Install base size makes all the difference. And the series popularity has obviously grown a lot since n64 and GameCube. Selling nearly 8 million copies of one game on n64 which only reached an install base of 33 million is an insane accomplishment.

Given how well Twilight Princess sold for the time, over a million more than OoT sold, it informed Nintendo that they were going in the right direction with the series. But then Skyward Sword had such a soft reception that they realized they needed to go in the direction that led to them creating BotW.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You don’t set your own objectives, the game does. The game might allow you to choose the order, but there’s no real freedom. You’re doing exactly the same thing as everyone else.

As I stated in my post your only choice is whether or not to tackle side missions.

That's still player choice.

It's also something that's steadily improving over time. Linear game design stagnated long ago.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yeah, Install base size makes all the difference. And the series popularity has obviously grown a lot since n64 and GameCube. Selling nearly 8 million copies of one game on n64 which only reached an install base of 33 million is an insane accomplishment.

Given how well Twilight Princess sold for the time, over a million more than OoT sold, it informed Nintendo that they were going in the right direction with the series. But then Skyward Sword had such a soft reception that they realized they needed to go in the direction that led to them creating BotW.

Until you realize how poorly the Wii Zelda sold relative to the modern Zelda titles.

 

[EDMIX]

We need both linear and open world games. I don’t want every game turn in to open world and vice versa……I want variety.

Agreed. I love Eiji, but he on meth for this lol

There cannot be a default regarding art or design. It is a dynamic concept that is dependent on the work. Some things make sense for linear, some things make sense for open world. It simply can't be an either or and it just sounds like he is doing "company man" things for Nintendo as they plan to drop that open world Mario Party game aka Mario WORLD RAVE edition lol

 

[Robb]

I can get his position if he’s only talking about player freedom. I don’t think that’s all there is to it though. It’s obviously easier to provide a good and cohesive story with the old style. Not to mention better dungeons, unique items and item progression etc. etc.

They’re two very different flavors imo. I love the new ones and I love the old ones.

There’s plenty of room for both.

 

[Zephyranthes]

I don't think there is a type of video game that should be considered "a thing of the past". Even some of the oldest gaming concepts can feel fresh with good design and direction: just look at what Atlus has done with turn-based JRPGs. Or what ArcSys has done with 2D fighting games. Or what Moon has done with side-scrolling platformers.

 

[MasterDerico]

Evotution is technology and creativity expansion in small or large scale.

You can be linear and new/revolutionary, also can be open, big and dated.

He is 100% wrong imo.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I suppose we're getting into a semantic argument of sorts, but I'd call "creator" the person that came up with the franchise. Even the referenced article doesn't use that term.

Yeah I suppose so, I just feel like if anyone’s the father of what Zelda has been since the 3D era began, it’s him, even if the roots go back to Miyamoto’s ideas

 

[Crayon]

While we obviously see that linear games are important, I think when keeping in mind the broadest possible audience, he might be right.

 

[sendit]

I hate linear games. If I wanted a linear game I would watch a movie.

 

[Pimpbaa]

While I do like open world games, I don’t like lazy sequels that reuse most of their assets. Maybe I shouldn’t complain about that considering how much I like the Yakuza series. Anyway, game variety is best. Playing the same type of game over and over can easily lead to genre fatigue.

 

[Danjin44]

I hate linear games. If I wanted a linear game I would watch a movie.

You do know not every linear game is ND style cinematic games.... RE, DMC, SH, ICO, past Zelda games and many more games that linear but weren't so called "movie" games.

 

[tusharngf]

he is not wrong. The last time I played the linear game was the Killzone series which sucked tbh.

 

[Lupin25]

As long as they improve upon TOTK’s flaws and design approach of less filler and more meaningful, handcrafted content, the formula can remain.

Obviously this is subjective, but I thought semi-open worlds or wide-linear designs like TLOU 2 (was just too long of a story to pad out the length of the game) or GoW 2018’s semi open-world hub were near perfect.

They keep you there in zones long enough to maintain your interest with unique handcrafted encounters before you move on to the next level.

These days, it seems most open-worlds are literally made to be big enough to last you (and the devs) for the next 5 years before they release them again. Problem is, for most there isn’t 5 years worth of enjoyment attached to it when most of the playtime is dedicated toward repetitive copy/paste grinding until you finally get to the meat & potatoes (main quests).

 

[sendit]

You do know not every linear game is ND style cinematic games.... RE, DMC, SH, ICO, past Zelda games and many more games that linear but weren't so called "movie" games.

Who said anything about ND style cinematic games? I just dislike linear games in general now. They feel too limiting. That's my personal take. I understand the draw to them, but they're no longer my cup of tea.

 

[Laieon]

The thing is that the old Zelda games like OoT were linear but they didn’t feel linear. If you’re good enough at maintaining that illusion of an open ended adventure then that’s good enough. It’s when you sense the straight line that it’s an issue. Which is how Skyward Sword felt.

I've said it before, but this is essentially word for word why I like the "traditional" 3D Zelda formula. I like feeling like I'm playing in a vast world filled with sweeping landscapes without actually doing that. I like extrinsic gameplay that pushes me to the next objective, reward, or story beat over intrinsic gameplay that asks me to make my own fun. Like you said, SS was the first big departure from that formula, and we went from Hyrule Field and the Great Sea to Skyloft which felt more like Peach's castle and disconnected areas that didn't even pretend to fit together (and then when you fly into them, they're just linear hallways and corridors.

Unfortunately, it sounds like what was once my all time favorite series has left me behind, or its director has anyway. I liked BOTW (and TOTK a little more), but I definitely didn't love either of the two. I desperately miss that old formula, and it sucks that there isn't really anything else that did what Zelda did that I could jump onto to recapture that feeling. If I were Goldilocks, SS was too cold, BOTW/TOTK was too hot, and the other 3D games were "just right".

 

[Danjin44]

Who said anything about ND style cinematic games? I just dislike linear games in general now. They feel too limiting. That's my personal take. I understand the draw to them, but they're no longer my cup of tea.

If its not your "cup of tea" thats fine but I just dont get whole "movie" comment. You dont play games like DMC or Bloodborne (which also linear) to get "movie" like experience.

 

[kunonabi]

I'll gladly sacrifice freedom for interesting gameplay scenarios and worthwhile rewards. The openness and choice in the new Zelda games are great at first but when all it leads to is the same mindless copy/paste filler activities, which are even worse in TotK since a lot of them are recycled from botw, that are never worth doing I just lose interest.

Like in the old Zelda games I remember how I found and earned each heart piece container and sharing those experiences with friends. In the new games they're just traded for at a statue after doing a bunch of shrines that I have zero recollection of hours after I completed them. I'll take the former approach every time.

 

[rabbity-thing]

"It's interesting when I hear people say [I miss traditional linear Zelda]," Aonuma revealed, "because I'm wondering 'why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play? Games which have a strict order of events are "kind of games of the past," Aonuma said, whilst modern games "can accept a player's own decisions and give them the freedom to flexibly proceed". This is the design philosophy of the Zelda team at Nintendo, he stated, though he added "I do have to admit making games that way always carries with it additional development costs".

How utterly odd a response to give. Like, how absolutely bone-headed do you have to be to create video games for a living and yet somehow miss the whole point behind a specific type of game design? He should know that many of the strengths of linear design are undercut by open-world mechanics, right?

Open world is not an evolution of game design that is somehow better than what came before it. It simply provides a different experience. Wondering why people would ever want to return to linear Zelda is like wondering why people would ever want to listen to the blues now that rock exists.

 

[existensmaximum]

It you're making open world, at least fill the world with meaningful stuff to do - dungeons, cool music etc and give the player a purpose to "do stuff". Make it feel rewarding.