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[Tesseract]

you are a coward if you go dark when it matters most

be the person who can still interact with the world after death comes knocking

 

[llien]

I mean she accused him or rape. How he did it does not matter. Accusation itself is.

Look in the beginning of her notes, she accuses someone else of rape. Then goes on to forgive that person.
THEN describes essentially an abusive relationship with Alec.

 

[Daft Fellow]

It's worse if you think about it that Alec still may be innocent in all of the claims. Andy Signore looked to be guilty on all accusations thrown at him, and look how that turned out.

Trial by social media is wrong. It's not the way forward.

 

[SonGoku]

For me her account is still there, just private.

weird I get redirected to account suspended when I click the first link in the op

you are a coward if you go dark when it matters most

be the person who can still interact with the world after death comes knocking

I suspect she closed her account to avoing being banned from Twitter over targeted harrasment, cyber bullying, witch hunting and brigading etc.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

Not that I posted there often(or here for that matter) but that place really is a cess pool of the worst kind of people who think they're the best kind of people.

 

[Tesseract]

weird I get redirected to account suspended when I click the first link in the op

I suspect she closed her account to avoing being banned from Twitter over targeted harrasment, cyber bullying, witch hunting and brigading etc.

make multiple accounts

maybe it's my nature, i respect people who attack the world

 

[SonGoku]

make multiple accounts

If twitter bans you they'll ban every alt the moment it gets reported
For public figures theres no escaping twitter ban hammer.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Not that I posted there often(or here for that matter) but that place really is a cess pool of the worst kind of people who think they're the best kind of people.

Oh wow, I haven't seen you since I played Flame Over.

 

[Tesseract]

If twitter bans you they'll ban every alt the moment it gets reported
For public figures theres no escaping twitter ban hammer.

announce you are redirecting to various outlets before the initial close or ban

she didn't even try to evade the spotlight, that tells me she's probably a psychopath

 

[hariseldon]

I hope he didn’t kill himself. However I would say if you really are suicidal after some crazy people accuse you of sexual harassment, this will only empower these bullies. Rather than kill/harm yourself come out and shut down these fake accusations! Mass majority of people are so tired of metoo billy campaign, you will have fat more support then you think I’m sure this fake accusations in gaming industry will only ramp up from here. Sadly his suicide will empower the sexist feminist bullies to falsely accuse even more people, they want to see people suffer, R.I.P.

Just think for a minute how it feels to be in the middle of this, your passion and your livelihood destroyed likely forever, hope gone, the whole world hating you, I don't know how anyone would find the strength to face such a mess. I certainly don't think I could cope.

Ps apologies for posts - saw this this morning and came to this thread to see what was up and Jesus Christ it's horrific. Really scary stuff. The internet is a terrible terrible place.

 

[cormack12]

Made worse when you read his interview around the game as well

“I wasn’t seeing a lot of games doing it [exploring these issues] so that kind of made it an interesting thing to explore,” Holowka explained. “And it kind of fit with the idea of doing this generally down-to-earth subject matter compared to a lot of games that are more about like, characters that are super powerful. Our characters aren’t that powerful...which I think is also interesting and relatable.”

Mae is infamously known for beating up a boy for seemingly no reason when she was in high school. At the time, she was reacting to an episode of depersonalization that caused her to see the world in “shapes” and disconnect from reality. Her problems were reduced to her simply having “anger issues,” and, after the incident, she had to start seeing the town doctor to treat them. Dr. Hank didn’t help Mae work through her “anger;” instead he actively encouraged her to suppress it. Mae’s experience with Dr. Hank highlights a problem in smaller rural communities where mental health resources are not easily accessible.

“There’s certain situations where Mae kind of fucks up, and I’ve seen some reactions from players who identify with that and some that are really frustrated, like ‘I wouldn’t do that!’” Holowka said. “But I think that’s part of the experience sometimes of mental health, that you don’t necessarily feel like you can make the best decisions all the time. That there’s some aspect of you that’s going to make a bad decision, and you’re kind of struggling with that.”

Holowka wants Night in the Woods to be a conversation starter, even if players don’t connect personally with the characters’ struggles.
“I hope that it’ll at least have kind of left a crack in their perception of people like me who are going through shit,” he said.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

Oh wow, I haven't seen you since I played Flame Over.

Lol that's a blast from the past. Left the games industry a few years ago.

 

[SonGoku]

announce you are redirecting to various outlets before the initial close or ban

lol im not defending that scumbag
I agree with your post, her reasons for deleting her account are 100% selfish and damage control. She'll resurface when the whole thing blows over and act like she was the real victim in all of this.

 

[JimiNutz]

Hopefully this lousy cunt feels like killing herself today.

I'm not wishing death on her... Just want her to feel like she deserves to die.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Lol that's a blast from the past. Left the games industry a few years ago.

Oh, that sucks

Well either way, it's good to see you posting here again, even if it's only once in awhile

 

[protonion]

I blame the mob.
Zoe was personally involved, ok.

But for someone to takes his life I believe he felt the whole world is against him.
If everyone was just reasonable instead of hysterical. I firmly believe if he went online and saw people being neutral he would be alive now.
His company's actions are very weird too. Why throw him under the bus like this? Felt like they were waiting for an excuse for a while.

Social media is cancer.

And I hope each one of the mob enjoys a long, loveless and sexless life.
You deserve it.

 

[V1LÆM]

Hopefully this lousy cunt feels like killing herself today.

I'm not wishing death on her... Just want her to feel like she deserves to die.

if only she had any conscience. somehow this will be spinned to further her disgusting cause.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

Oh, that sucks

Well either way, it's good to see you posting here again, even if it's only once in awhile

It doesn't. Games development blows. Paid pennies for working twice as hard as any other dev. I'm much happier in FinTech. I'll be more active here for sure. Got my account nuked at the other place.

 

[Jon Neu]

I blame the mob.
Zoe was personally involved, ok.

She used the mob to gain attention and sympathy.

She knew perfectly what she was doing, she knew perfectly that she was going to make that guy's life a living hell.

Like Anita and the rest of the crazy feminists that swarm this industry, she just doesn't care.

And she is still going to pretend that she is the victim, because that's literally how she earns her living.

 

[Orpheum]

She is a despicable human being. Just awful and a coward on top. If her allegations get proven wrong she should face jail time

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Lol that's a blast from the past. Left the games industry a few years ago.

Just want to say that as a fellow Brit I loved your game and bought Flame Over Day 1!

On topic: I honestly tried to keep away from this type of stuff as it pops up everywhere now but Twitter needs to get a grip on these accusations and lock and delete any Tweet that name drops a person with a letter to the accuser saying to report it to the following police department in their Country of Origin.

This honestly need to stop. If the person was raped, report it to the police and only tell your closest family/friends as it is a sensitive subject. Calling people out makes it look like a casual crime (since it is publicised) and ruins lives as this thread has shown.

 

[Dontero]

Basically. Pre gamergate gaf was cool though.

Disease was already there just to a lesser degree.

At the time there already were games which were banned from members to make threads about like that top down shooter about killing civilians (which was banned because dev "liked" on facebook some polish nationalist post about immigration of all things). The rot had set it around 2010-2012 when people were banned not because they were jackasses which was tradition which everyone was happy about but because someone didn't like user politics. From there it was slow rise of crazy mods who slowly started to manifest their politics. 2016 election is what broke the cammel and mods went mental banning people left and right just because they dared to say they liked Bernie of all people, behaving like lunatics. From there people just walked on eggshels or just completely avoided offtopic sticking to games which was incredibly harder and harder because politics went into games threads non stop at this point.

I think EviLore once said that in 2016 elections Neogaf was like top5 sites for politics which was and i quote "fucking weird in retrospect"

In 2014 i was banned in this thread (user perkel to have some credibility) for daring to defend Kingdom Come Deliverance lack of black people in their setting and explaining to people how middle ages life looked like in Eastern Europe at the time. In the end i was right and mods were wrong because Kingdom Come didn't turn out to be fantasy rpg but actual historical RPG.

Evilore himself was also guilty of this but as they say, the only way to learn is to fail. He learned the hard way what rest of users had to deal with on these boards.

To this day i still think that Neogaf itself could completely defuse gamergate because it was the only big gaming forum that could have reasonable discussions with arguments without shouting that could explain from A to B what happened and if someone should care about it. Instead after reddit and few other big gaming forums completely banned talk about this subject subject was also banned on Neogaf which effectively put people into two baskets. One which went to 4chan and other sites that had free speech and other who went to thumbr etc and both sides formed barricades which holds to this day.
Unfortunately it was few years to late. Around 2010-2012 it could work but not in 2014 when even Evilore himself was taken in by this ideology.

 

[V1LÆM]

She is a despicable human being. Just awful and a coward on top. If her allegations get proven wrong she should face jail time

Should face jail time regardless. A man has lost his life because of her no matter if he is innocent or guilty.

 

[nush]

Mr A Khaled, obviously didn't watch any of the videos he's critiquing and just parroted "Gamergate are misogynists".

 

[Flintty]

It's worse if you think about it that Alec still may be innocent in all of the claims. Andy Signore looked to be guilty on all accusations thrown at him, and look how that turned out.

Trial by social media is wrong. It's not the way forward.

Yeah it baffles me that nobody learned from Signore, nobody back tracked to report the truth and they don’t give a shit. They didn’t learn from that and they’ll unlikely learn from this.

I was a moderate poster on Era but I’ve cut all ties with the place now. It’s beyond repair.

 

[FranXico]

I suspect she closed her account to avoing being banned from Twitter over targeted harrasment, cyber bullying, witch hunting and brigading etc.

Twitter wouldn't ban her ilk, but her recent post history is indeed evidence of those things.

 

[ksdixon]

In 2014 i was banned in this thread (user perkel to have some credibility) for daring to defend Kingdom Come Deliverance lack of black people in their setting and explaining to people how middle ages life looked like in Eastern Europe at the time.

holy crap, that was 5 years ago already?

 

[Rat Rage]

The way resetera disrespects its members is kinda fascinating. First they ban a ton of people in their zoe alec holowka thread for stupid and/or dubious resons (they often use bullshit like "dismissing concerns...." etc - who the fuck are they even to dictate what people should or shouldn't be concerned about!?), and then when they see the huge backlash they just lock the thread to cover everything up.

That's a big "fuck you" to the few sane posters up there, if you ask me.

 

[Dontero]

Look in the beginning of her notes, she accuses someone else of rape. Then goes on to forgive that person.
THEN describes essentially an abusive relationship with Alec.

"He paraded me with his fingers in me against my wishes"
That is definition of rape. Rape means violation of body orifices against person will.

 

[Fuz]

That's a big "fuck you" to the few sane posters up there, if you ask me.

That's a catch 22.

There's no sane posters on retardera.

 

[FranXico]

RegressiveGamer reported on the suicide.

A final message ended with a plea that Holowka's death not be used as an excuse to harass anyone else.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

RegressiveGamer reported on the suicide.

There's a difference between harassing people, and holding them accountable for their actions. Hopefully people are able to tell the difference.

 

[petran79]

The way resetera disrespects its members is kinda fascinating. First they ban a ton of people in their zoe alec holowka thread for stupid and/or dubious resons (they often use bullshit like "dismissing concerns...." etc - who the fuck are they even to dictate what people should or shouldn't be concerned about!?), and then when they see the huge backlash they just look the thread to cover everything up.

That's a big "fuck you" to the few sane posters up there, if you ask me.

What I cant understand is people that were banned here on GAF and then went to RE and are banned or warned again by the same mods and users yet still continue to stay there. Early months of RE must have been one of the most well orchestrated online facades ever. Thousands were taken in by that plot/ Few months later they showed their true colors. Forum was turned into a "SJW" recruitment center.
To think that I was banned because I linked a tweet about sexual abuse by anti-GG journalists....tweet wasnt even mine, I posted it from a link of another user that wasnt banned at all.

There's a difference between harassing people, and holding them accountable for their actions. Hopefully people are able to tell the difference.

with closed comments nonetheless. Had a developer of "their side" done the same there would be online fury all over the gaming social media

 

[Stuchinoko]

Only just got around to posting on here, the whole thing is disgusting. People acting like Alec's choice to remain silent at first was "an admission of guilt" when we saw ProJared (another innocent) try to vehemently defend himself at first and the crazies called that "an admission of guilt." Cancel culture, witch hunts, all of it is a cancerous plague infecting every inch of modern pop culture. People with no real battles in their lives seeking to hurt and destroy others. Alec lost everything; his friends, his livelihood, his ideas, and that culminated in the loss of his life. Now I'm seeing people (if you can call this vicious monsters "people") seriously stating that "Alec must have been guilty! Why else would he kill himself?!" Imagine having no fucking empathy for a man who fell into a void we all know most people can't come back from. His life in the industry was over because of something that MIGHT have happened ten-years-ago.

What angers me the most - nobody enforcing this rubbish, these lynch mobs, will learn from this. They'll act all sympathetic and pretend they never saw this coming, and then they'll move on to their next target. Someone else's life to rip apart.

 

[Psydonk]

Because if you don't believe them you are transphobic or something.

But that's not the thing. Even if everything Zoe said is true, she still has literal sexual abuse allegations against her from another Indie Dev, she has a history of proven fake defamation against former colleagues and friends (Her old photographer and roommate, both female), former colleagues have pointed out she's a pathological liar and extremely mentally unstable, you have several former ex boyfriends talk about how she was an abusive, nasty self centred piece of shit.
Even if you think Eron is a nutter himself (he is) what she did to him was straight up sexual and domestic abuse.

So if you're going to believe the victims, how in fuck is Zoe still a thing? How hasn't she been cancelled? It's obvious to anyone with eyes she's an abusive narcissistic shithead as well even if she has been abused multiple times.

 

[ruvikx]

There's a difference between harassing people, and holding them accountable for their actions. Hopefully people are able to tell the difference.

Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian went crying to the United Nations a few years ago & claimed literal criticism of women or a "you're a liar" comment on the internet = "harassment": https://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/9...men-cyber-violence-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn

Through her work with Feminist Frequency as the star of a video series critiquing depictions of women in the media, including video games, Sarkeesian also found herself caught up in the GamerGate firestorm. "I have been a target for three years non-stop," she told those in attendance, "of egregious online harassment in all levels."


She defined this as not just the violence that the group has formed to combat, but also the "day-to-day grind of ‘You're a liar,' ‘You suck' ... making all of these hate videos on a regular basis to attack us and the mobs that come from those hate videos."

Their definition of "harassment" is a perversion of the actual meaning of the word. They'll scream "harassment" at anyone who exposes their bullshit, calls them out or even just disagrees with them. They're a lost cause & so are their supporters.

 

[EightBit Man]

Zoe was never going to court for this guys, remember what she wrote:

This arch manipulator told us that this wasn't about him. And yet, it was he who committed suicide because in reality it really was about him. Don't underestimate the psychopath. They are extremely cunning and clever, and they do everything in their power to achieve their goals. She knows the power of social media like I said elsewhere. I never believed her story, and even if it had some merit, it would've been vastly exaggerated and twisted to make her like a hopeless victim. That's what psychopaths do; they have no conscience.

I'll quote a part of this article again, in case people are still not aware how these people manipulate things:

Narcissists can’t accept that they may not be wonderful people. They are also incredibly fragile when facing an idea that perhaps they did something wrong, especially if others can see it. Therefore if there’s a conflict they will do anything and everything to maintain a fantasy that they are always good, all while perceiving the other party as evil.

Not only that, they need other people’s validation that their delusion is true. To achieve that, they create preposterous, slanderous, manipulative narratives where all of that is true and try to convince others of it. And since many people are unwilling and unable to look into the truth behind it, the narcissist can find that validation they so desperately crave and even act out their revenge fantasies. Often the reason is as simple as hating to see others doing well because they themselves are miserable.

Also, thanks for the kind words Xaero Gravity , Kadayi , and GHG . This whole thing really got to me, and I was really sad and angry about the whole thing which led to confusion, and I still am to be honest.

 

[GamingKaiju]

What a sad ending.

I didn’t post anything before because the story sounded like Alec was just a dude who had serious issues with insecurities, jealousy and control which has was later confirmed when he had sought help for MH issues.

Zoe Quinn shouldn’t have posted this story knowing that Alec had MH issues and sought help and even apologised to Zoe at a later date. I don’t want to wish horrible things to Zoe but she has played a major part in this story and does have blood on her hands. Don’t go to social media to out anyone because it may end horribly. If a crime is committed then contact authorities and keep it off Social Media until a judgement has been passed.

Internet hate mobs are the worst. Do yourself a favour folks and delete it.

I feel for Alec’s family as they have to pick up the pieces after this. Hope them the best in this horrible situation.

This is very imo

But Zoe nuking her Twitter speaks volumes to me. Cowardly and silent to avoid the backlash she’s know has fucked up.

Pls note I’m not excusing Alec’s behaviour, what he did was wrong but he sought help and apologised to Zoe to me that is the matter closed. We can’t change what we did but we can accept that we were wrong and learn, change and grow from it what Zoe did was shit on him from a great height whilst he was still coming to terms with his own failings as a human being.

 

[Outrunner]

you are a coward if you go dark when it matters most

be the person who can still interact with the world after death comes knocking

She just lost her brother.

 

[Tesseract]

She just lost her brother.

okay

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is f’ing insane... f’ck history and its cycles... ...

 

[Cosmogony]

This world filled with shit stain SJW's can burn in hell for all i care. I am sick of dumb fuck extremist liberals. All they do is hide behind there fucking computer or phone or tablet and talk really nasty shit about people like they are not human beings and this is the shit that happens. Fuck all of you who support Antifa, who support SJW's, who support extremist liberals in general. I have no sympathy for you when Karma calls.

Be sure not to turn into the devil while fighting the devil.

 

[JimiNutz]

if only she had any conscience. somehow this will be spinned to further her disgusting cause.

Yeah you're probably right.
Maybe working on her next victim.

 

[Psydonk]

This arch manipulator told us that this wasn't about him. And yet, it was he who committed suicide because in reality it really was about him. Don't underestimate the psychopath. They are extremely cunning and clever, and they do everything in their power to achieve their goals. She knows the power of social media like I said elsewhere. I never believed her story, and even if it had some merit, it would've been vastly exaggerated and twisted to make her like a hopeless victim. That's what psychopaths do; they have no conscience.

The most hilarious was the Max Landis allegation she made, first she had to consul a friend because Max Landis literally raped her, when people were like proof it got whittled down to Max Landis sent extremely abusive text messages when she was in a time of need (where is the rape?) Then when people asked for proof she posted the messages and it was at worst Max being slightly insensitivite (blunt) while giving legitimate advice.

Somehow Zoe accusing someone of rape which got downgraded "slightly harsh constructive criticism" just got swept under the rug.

 

[the Guynecologist]

.

 

[mekes]

Talking about a crime that has allegedly been committed but not reported on social media, as a matter of public record, should be a crime in and of itself.

Hiding behind social media because you’re afraid of the law, or afraid of retaliation, or any number of other excuses, should not be tolerated... regardless of the situation. If you’re courageous enough as an alleged victim to implicate someone on Twitter or Facebook, then you’re courageous enough to file a police report and subsequent criminal charges. This is circumvention of the legal system, with the added peril of accusing someone in a public forum of a crime with no intention of following legal processes.

Laws need to be changed and updated to apply to modern technology, which includes the liberal use of social media for harassment and intimidation. It can be argued that Quinn should be questioned by law enforcement regarding her role in this death.

Social media probably should be more responsible for the content allowed to be posted there. Allowing such intimidation, which led to the death of an individual, should fall at least in part on the shoulders of the forums that allow such intimidation to occur.

A very sad situation, and a frustrating reminder of how social media has been weaponized and co-opted by people as an instrument of abuse, harassment, and intimidation. It’s a severe devolution from its more humble beginnings as a forum to share random photos and blurbs on how you spent your day.

This this this.

 

[EviLore]

Disease was already there just to a lesser degree.

At the time there already were games which were banned from members to make threads about like that top down shooter about killing civilians (which was banned because dev "liked" on facebook some polish nationalist post about immigration of all things). The rot had set it around 2010-2012 when people were banned not because they were jackasses which was tradition which everyone was happy about but because someone didn't like user politics. From there it was slow rise of crazy mods who slowly started to manifest their politics. 2016 election is what broke the cammel and mods went mental banning people left and right just because they dared to say they liked Bernie of all people, behaving like lunatics. From there people just walked on eggshels or just completely avoided offtopic sticking to games which was incredibly harder and harder because politics went into games threads non stop at this point.

I think EviLore once said that in 2016 elections Neogaf was like top5 sites for politics which was and i quote "fucking weird in retrospect"

In 2014 i was banned in this thread (user perkel to have some credibility) for daring to defend Kingdom Come Deliverance lack of black people in their setting and explaining to people how middle ages life looked like in Eastern Europe at the time. In the end i was right and mods were wrong because Kingdom Come didn't turn out to be fantasy rpg but actual historical RPG.

Evilore himself was also guilty of this but as they say, the only way to learn is to fail. He learned the hard way what rest of users had to deal with on these boards.

To this day i still think that Neogaf itself could completely defuse gamergate because it was the only big gaming forum that could have reasonable discussions with arguments without shouting that could explain from A to B what happened and if someone should care about it. Instead after reddit and few other big gaming forums completely banned talk about this subject subject was also banned on Neogaf which effectively put people into two baskets. One which went to 4chan and other sites that had free speech and other who went to thumbr etc and both sides formed barricades which holds to this day.
Unfortunately it was few years to late. Around 2010-2012 it could work but not in 2014 when even Evilore himself was taken in by this ideology.

That's not an accurate characterization of my perspective, but I didn't talk much about it publicly around that time so I can understand why you'd think that. I opposed GG primarily because people on that "side" came after me obsessively from the start in an attempt to destroy my reputation, and the initial talking points of the movement generally seemed absurd: that Zoe Quinn slept with game journalists to promote her game for charity (I don't care who someone sleeps with), and ethics in game journalism (there has never been any, and I've been a lifelong critic of the enthusiast games press). I dismissed these grievances as being silly.

Things got too hostile and intense all at once though. When people started stalking my personal Facebook and brigading me on Twitter, I defriended a bunch of people and stopped using social media, generally staying out of the spotlight so that I could live my life. It was way too much.

Most of the ex-mods weren't hardcore social justice types, either, just gamers, but any time they acted in public on the boards, people on any which side would jump down their throats, and any public face of the mod team became targeted by extremist types off-site, which became a vicious cycle that drove most of the ex-mods into hiding, and broke down communication between the mod/admin side and the community side. Most of them were really stressed out all the time later on.

The only people left who were willing to get in the muck at that point were the True Believer intersectional warrior mods, and they doubled down after Trump got elected, totally bypassing my rules and mass stealth banning people as I uncovered later. I've attempted to right those wrongs in the time since.

Keeping gaf operating smoothly on ancient vb3, managing the ads, keeping the team together and the community together, and prepping for our migration was a double-full-time endeavor.

 

[Psydonk]

Zoe Quinn & Anita Sarkeesian went crying to the United Nations a few years ago & claimed literal criticism of women or a "you're a liar" comment on the internet = "harassment": https://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/9...men-cyber-violence-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn



Their definition of "harassment" is a perversion of the actual meaning of the word. They'll scream "harassment" at anyone who exposes their bullshit, calls them out or even just disagrees with them. They're a lost cause & so are their supporters.

Honestly I'm more on Anita's side, she was just making a feminism 101 documentary and got years of harassment and abuse and weird stalkerish obsession with hating her from autists like Thunderf00t and Sargon. When the documentaries finally came out they were largely inoffensive, entry level feminist media analysis and then she basically disappeared. She never deserved the abuse she got. Honestly haven't heard literally anything about Anita in yonks.

Zoe on the other hand is a narcissistic manipulative bully who seems to revel in creating drama and shitting on anyone who dares get on her bad side. She has multiple abuse allegations against her and somehow she still has the moral high ground among the media when shitting down on everyone around her.

I don't think Zoe should get abused or mobbed as well, but she needs to be told to fuck off and treated as a non-entity online and in the industry and she needs to face the allegations against her. The abuse Zoe has copped from GG types has just acted as a shield for her from allegations and criticism.

 

[Vol5]

We've gone from throwing people to lions and marching with pitchforks to this. I don't think the human race has advanced at all really.

How anyone can defend Zoe Quinn after this....after the rule of law is utterly and completely sidelined in favor of mob mentality.

Quinn could start with an apology then actually do something constructive to help victims and empower individuals with actions and dialog.....not idiotic words on Twitter with no chance of conversation. I guess I'm an optimist....I feel however that Quinn in particular is incapable of such inner strength and humility.

 

[Psajdak]

Internet, and world by extension would have been so much better places, if people just used web to jerk off to korean idols, and pirate licensed stuff.

Or, dunno, learn how to make pies.