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[Haint]

I've owned PSVR2 for years now. I played GT7 two nights ago for hours. That's what I'm talking about, people like me that own multiple headsets I just never see them mention this.

Just in my house, there's 2 Quest 3s and 1 PSVR2. 5+ people playing both and I've never heard anyone ask to turn up the brightness. Not once.

Most PS5 VR games support HDR and apply some level of tone mapping to fit within it's dynamic range capabilities, which reduces the average brightness level. Buy the PC adapter and play the same PCVR game back to back on Q3 and PSVR2. This is not a subtle or subjective difference, you'll see immediately what I'm talking about. The PC adapter just runs it full blast all the time and Q3 really falls flat on its face in such a comparison.

I'd suggest HL:Alyx as a demo cause it's well mastered unlike most of the low budget indie shit. I'm 100% confident that noone being even half way honest about it can actually perform that comparison and come away saying they don't see a massive difference, don't care about OLED, or still think pancake lenses and the resulting 60-80 nit white peak LCD is a worthwhile visual trade off. PSVR2 is a pretty terrible product on the whole, but it absolutely can not be faulted on its overall end image quality, or how favorably it blows all the LCD headsets out of the water.

 

[Minsc]

This is kinda silly. I've owned dozens of devices, laptops, iPads, Android tablets, monitors, TVs, and OLED is almost always better than not.

I wouldn't argue the LCD is better than the OLED in colors, but to say the LCD in inadequate is not true. I've played tons of things on the Quest, and while it doesn't get blindingly bright, from games to movies to anime, to 3D videos, they all look pretty great. Could it be better? Sure, I'd love HDR and more.

But you know what? I've also watched movies on the PSVR2, and trying to make out details sucks ass to the point the colors aren't worth a damn, give me a Quest 3 instead. You can't read shit near the edges of the FOV, and the image persistence is bad (it's actually just about the worst headset ever made in that regard). Motion clarity is a lot better on the Quest 3. And the passthrough for mixed reality really sucks on the PSVR2. Mura is pretty to very bad on the PSVR2 in the not fully black grays. A few games are crazy bad with mura on the PSVR2 I've seen, as annoying as the blacks on the Quest 3. Both devices have their strengths.

 

[Romulus]

Edit: double post

 

[Romulus]

Most PS5 VR games support HDR and apply some level of tone mapping to fit within it's dynamic range capabilities, which reduces the average brightness level. Buy the PC adapter and play the same PCVR game back to back on Q3 and PSVR2. This is not a subtle or subjective difference, you'll see immediately what I'm talking about. The PC adapter just runs it full blast all the time and Q3 really falls flat on its face in such a comparison.

I'd suggest HL:Alyx as a demo cause it's well mastered unlike most of the low budget indie shit. I'm 100% confident that noone being even half way honest about it can actually perform that comparison and come away saying they don't see a massive difference, don't care about OLED, or still think pancake lenses and the resulting 60-80 nit white peak LCD is a worthwhile visual trade off. PSVR2 is a pretty terrible product on the whole, but it absolutely can not be faulted on its overall end image quality, or how favorably it blows all the LCD headsets out of the water.

You've always used incredibly decisive verbiage when describing things you like "blows it out of the water" "trash" etc. Even suggesting people are being dishonest if they disagree with you. I just don't see your opinion mirrored anywhere else. Its valid, but I've thoroughly tested psvr2/quest 3 on PC and dozens of others have in the community.

For me, the pancake lenses are why I won't trade for anything psvr2 has to offer for pcvr. Brightness included. Many, many others agree. There's absolutely no way we're all being dishonest. Lol. It would actually be more likely you're being dishonest considering how rare your opinion is. Not saying you are.

So if someone chooses psvr2 because it's more comfortable to them are they lying also? What about if they prefer the blacks or colors and they don't see the brightness as a big deal? I've chosen psvr2 on occasion for those reasons over brightness.

 

[Haint]

You've always used incredibly decisive verbiage when describing things you like "blows it out of the water" "trash" etc. Even suggesting people are being dishonest if they disagree with you. I just don't see your opinion mirrored anywhere else. Its valid, but I've thoroughly tested psvr2/quest 3 on PC and dozens of others have in the community.

For me, the pancake lenses are why I won't trade for anything psvr2 has to offer for pcvr. Brightness included. Many, many others agree. There's absolutely no way we're all being dishonest. Lol. It would actually be more likely you're being dishonest considering how rare your opinion is. Not saying you are.

So if someone chooses psvr2 because it's more comfortable to them are they lying also? What about if they prefer the blacks or colors and they don't see the brightness as a big deal? I've chosen psvr2 on occasion for those reasons over brightness.

The decisive verbiage is intentional because I'm referring to quantifiably objective ground truths backed by decades of hard display science. And I've been very clear it's the combination of contast, color, and brightness, not just one. A 60nit 600:1 LCD barely stuggle bussing to SRGB/709 color volume isnt even operating in the same stratosphere as a 500+nit Infinity:1 near BT2020 OLED. Q3 has a comically inferior display stack, full stop, not entertained for debate by anyone operating above retardation. This is not my opinion. Anyone who downplays or suggests this is a subtle or minor difference across a 100deg FOV in a pitch dark environment is either lying or full of shit. I have absolute confidence in that statement.

Now pancake lenses DO have a massive advantage in ease of fitment and eyebox size, but they DO NOT significantly out perform fresnels within the eyebox. Our peripheral vision is very poor so extreme edge clarity isn't a factor in practice unless you're constantly rotating your eyeballs to their limits, which is unnatural behavior. We look at stuff primarily with our head, not rotating our eyeballs 180 degrees. The only real trade off is you will find yourself having to readjust them a lot more. If you're genuinely experiening substantially inferior clarity with PSVR2, you're not in the eyebox. And it may well be that your skull structure and eye inset makes it impossible to get into the eyebox. Sony's headstrap and housing is seriously the worst in the industry by far and won't work with a lot of people's heads. Clearly very little testing was performed outside of the handful of Japanese salarymen that designed it.

It would of course be perfectly valid to prefer the Q3 for comfort, wireless support, passthru AR, controllers etc..., but it's impossible for someone with normally functioning eyes to claim they prefer the OVERALL VISUAL experience of HL Alyx in a Q3 over a PSVR2.

 

[lmimmfn]

The decisive verbiage is intentional because I'm referring to quantifiably objective ground truths backed by decades of hard display science. And I've been very clear it's the combination of contast, color, and brightness, not just one. A 60nit 600:1 LCD barely stuggle bussing to SRGB/709 color volume isnt even operating in the same stratosphere as a 500+nit Infinity:1 near BT2020 OLED. Q3 has a comically inferior display stack, full stop, not entertained for debate by anyone operating above retardation. This is not my opinion. Anyone who downplays or suggests this is a subtle or minor difference across a 100deg FOV in a pitch dark environment is either lying or full of shit. I have absolute confidence in that statement.

Now pancake lenses DO have a massive advantage in ease of fitment and eyebox size, but they DO NOT significantly out perform fresnels within the eyebox. Our peripheral vision is very poor so extreme edge clarity isn't a factor in practice unless you're constantly rotating your eyeballs to their limits, which is unnatural behavior. We look at stuff primarily with our head, not rotating our eyeballs 180 degrees. The only real trade off is you will find yourself having to readjust them a lot more. If you're genuinely experiening substantially inferior clarity with PSVR2, you're not in the eyebox. And it may well be that your skull structure and eye inset makes it impossible to get into the eyebox, Sony's headstrap and housing is seriously the worst in the industry by far.

I couldn't disagree more regarding the difference between fresnel and pancake lenses and I've been using VR headsets since I received my Kickstarted Oculus DK1(afterwards DK2, CV1 and Meta Q2 briefly?. People don't move their heads to bring objects into the centre of vision, we scan what is visible and therefore focus our sight on the edge of the visible field, that is absolutely terrible with fresnel lenses and is near perfect with pancake lenses, additionally glare is terrible with fresnel lenses.

 

[delirium trigger]

I've posted on this site using the quest 3 with virtual desktop. When I play psvr2 I try to get out of the title screen as soon as possible because text is so bad.

The Quest 3 also has built in speakers which are awesome. Having to use earbuds or a headset while using psvr2 really crushes the immersion. The psvr2 ear buds fall out all the time too.

 

[Haint]

I couldn't disagree more regarding the difference between fresnel and pancake lenses and I've been using VR headsets since I received my Kickstarted Oculus DK1(afterwards DK2, CV1 and Meta Q2 briefly?. People don't move their heads to bring objects into the centre of vision, we scan what is visible and therefore focus our sight on the edge of the visible field, that is absolutely terrible with fresnel lenses and is near perfect with pancake lenses, additionally glare is terrible with fresnel lenses.

If you're actually within the eyebox, fresnels should only fall apart at the extreme periphery, beyond where you should comfortably be "scanning" with eyeball rotation. Ironically PSVR2 specifically actually has some of the least glare and "god rays" of any headset, I strongly suspect this is why it's vertical eyebox is so small. An intentional design tradeoff. Pancakes still have quite a bit of glare as well, Q3's produces a very large diffuse clouding/hazing effect.

 

[Osthyvel]

Well then, i hope i can get some help from me follow gafers. I have been gaming on vr since 2016, i own psvr/psvr2. I bought Quest 3 yesterday and its A A A A A A A Amaziiiiing, this will be my new home for vr, i think so anyway.

But! First, i got locked out on the app, tried to log out and when i try to login again there were no smscodes arriving, so after i tried a couple of times, it says i have to wait, ordered to many codes.... its just to wait then? Can use the headset but not login on the app...

Second; did not know about the referralthing until now, if i deactivate my quest and do this over again trough a referrallink, will i do it with the same metaccount, i have redeemed batman and quest+ and the games on the account i use now, i hope you understand what i am trying to say... otherwise please ask = )

 

[Tams]

The Quest 4 really needs OLEDs. For games it doesn't make much of a difference, especially fast paced ones, but for video viewing the poor contrast and black bars are pretty distracting.

It's also annoying that there isn't an IR emitter on the 3, but is in the 3S.

Other than those though, I'm having a great time.

 

[Romulus]

It's impossible for someone with normally functioning eyes to claim they prefer the overall VISUAL experience of HL Alyx in a Q3 over a PSVR2.

Thats the main reason many choose quest 3. It's simply superior image quality for pcvr. No way around it. Psvr2 is absolutely blurrier even within it's sweet spot. That's not even counting mura. I've compared the middle(best case) to Quest 3's and its not close. PSVR2's18 ppd/screen door/mura, glare, and chromatic aberration vs 26 ppd with pancake lenses is just not going to stack up when it comes to image quality. It's impossible.



Blacks, colors, and brightness are another story.

 

[Haint]

Thats the main reason many choose quest 3. It's simply superior image quality for pcvr. No way around it. Psvr2 is absolutely blurrier even within it's sweet spot. That's not even counting mura. I've compared the middle(best case) to Quest 3's and its not close.

Though the lens images with a shitty camera is like trying to demo speakers or TV's through a Youtube video, it obviously doesn't even stand up to elementary school common sense, never mind science rigor. Dude somehow managed to make Q3 look brighter in like 90% of these comparison which doesn't even warrant commenting on. As I've well belabored at this point, pancakes certainly have far larger eyeboxes and edge clarity than fresnels, the point you're missing is that if you're capable of getting into the eyebox (and PSVR2 is absolutely the most difficult headset by far), our eyes don't even see this "blurryness" you're trying to showcase here. We only see the clear center portion, that's why fixed foveated rendering works. Can you roll your eyes to the furthest extremeties and see it? Yes. Is it a massive omnipresent issue like the bright gray "black" levels and washed out color/contrast of LCD panels? No.

The benefits of pancakes have to outweigh what you're giving up, and in $500 headsets they do not, you're giving up too much. There's a fundamental difference in the degrees of the 2 scenarios we're presenting. Pancakes offer a relatively minor gain in lens clarity, chromatic abberation, and ease of fitment, but necessitate using garbage pale LCD's to meet the cost and lightout requirements. Fresnels offer relatively minor reductions in said lens clarity, but monumental multi-generational gains in display quality. That's the difference.

 

[Romulus]

Though the lens images with a shitty camera is like trying to demo speakers or TV's through a Youtube video, it obviously doesn't even stand up to elementary school common sense, never mind science rigor. Dude somehow managed to make Q3 look brighter in like 90% of these comparison which doesn't even warrant commenting on. As I've well belabored at this point, pancakes certainly have far larger eyeboxes and edge clarity than fresnels, the point you're missing is that if you're capable of getting into the eyebox (and PSVR2 is absolutely the most difficult headset by far), our eyes don't even see this "blurryness" you're trying to showcase here. We only see the clear center portion, that's why fixed foveated rendering works. Can you roll your eyes to the furthest extremeties and see it? Yes. Is it a massive omnipresent issue like the bright gray "black" levels and washed out color/contrast of LCD panels? No.

The benefits of pancakes have to outweigh what you're giving up, and in $500 headsets they do not, you're giving up too much. There's a fundamental difference in the degrees of the 2 scenarios we're presenting. Pancakes offer a relatively minor gain in lense clarity, chromatic abberation, and ease of fitment, but necessitate using garbage pale LCD's to meet the cost and lightout requirements. Fresnels offer relatively minor reductions in said lense clarity, but monumental multi-generational gains in display quality.

Pixel density is absolutely defeats that argument. 18 vs 25 is a whole different level of clarity. Tyrel and others have used the best cameras possible as have others. They backed that up by stating in practice Q3 is much clearer. Are they lying and trolling for Meta? lol

I have my PSVR2 sweet spot to a science by now and even then its just not close to Quest 3's clarity. Guess I'm also lying and everyone else on this forum that owns both.

Everyone isn't wrong but you. You're literally the only person in the world claiming the clarity is on par lol. And yes, I'm talking PSVR2 at its absolute best sweet spot. It's just blurrier even at its best.

 

[Haint]

Alyx




Pixel density is absolutely defeats that argument. 18 vs 25 is a whole different level of clarity. Tyrel and others have used the best cameras possible as have others. They backed that up by stating in practice Q3 is much clearer. Are they lying and trolling for Meta? lol

I have my PSVR2 sweet spot to a science by now and even then its just not close to Quest 3's clarity. Guess I'm also lying.

Everyone isn't wrong but you. You're literally the only person in the world claiming the clarity is on par lol. And yes, I'm talking PSVR2 at its absolute best sweet spot.

Their resolutions are close enough to be meaningless, pentile deficits only present in certain colors and the required wireless image stream compression/artifacts on Q3 further moot any marginal advantage it may hold. It's SOC is literally incapable of decoding anywhere close to a perceptually lossless video stream. And no I'm not saying the clarity is the same, I'm saying the sweet spot center portion where your eyes are like 80% of the time is basically the same. Certainly nowhere close to the grand canyon sized gulf separating the two display technologies.

 

[Minsc]

Their resolutions are close enough to be meaningless, pentile deficits only present in certain colors and the required image stream compression/artifacts on Q3 further moot any marginal advantage it may hold. It's SOC is literally incapable of decoding anywhere close to a perceptually lossless video stream. And no I'm not saying the clarity is the same, I'm saying the sweet spot center portion where your eyes are like 80% of the time is basically the same. Certainly nowhere close to the grand canyon sized gulf separating the two display technologies.

It can make a huge difference in some instances. I found in Minigolf, to look down at the ball, then to determine the angle I aim my vision towards the edge of the FOV, so I can see the hole and the ball at the same time and connect the two. On the PSVR2 I get horrible detail of the hole location along the edge of my FOV, so I need to move my head to center the target. Now I can't see the ball's location anymore. On the Quest 3 you can make out both in clearer detail at once.

Same for watching media content with subtitles, reading the text that displays along the bottom is really not great on the PSVR2. Especially if it's white on black. I really think the PSVR2 is a pretty poor headset when used outside of gaming.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Thats the main reason many choose quest 3. It's simply superior image quality for pcvr. No way around it. Psvr2 is absolutely blurrier even within it's sweet spot. That's not even counting mura. I've compared the middle(best case) to Quest 3's and its not close. PSVR2's18 ppd/screen door/mura, glare, and chromatic aberration vs 26 ppd with pancake lenses is just not going to stack up when it comes to image quality. It's impossible.



Blacks, colors, and brightness are another story.

T Three will not accept this video!

dId yOu CAPtURe psVR2 COrreCTlY?? /s

 

[Romulus]

Their resolutions are close enough to be meaningless, pentile deficits only present in certain colors and the required image stream compression/artifacts on Q3 further moot any marginal advantage it may hold. It's SOC is literally incapable of decoding anywhere close to a perceptually lossless video stream. And no I'm not saying the clarity is the same, I'm saying the sweet spot center portion where your eyes are like 80% of the time is basically the same. Certainly nowhere close to the grand canyon sized gulf separating the two display technologies.

It's only marginal in your opinion though. Kind of like the way you think brightness is some huge gamechanger and no one else even talks about that or brings it up. I tried it again today just to try and understand what you're talking about. I mean, even with Elite Dangerous its so minuscule compared to the clarity difference even with the better blacks and colors its not enough for me to choose PSVR2 in that case.

 

[lmimmfn]

Though the lens images with a shitty camera is like trying to demo speakers or TV's through a Youtube video, it obviously doesn't even stand up to elementary school common sense, never mind science rigor. Dude somehow managed to make Q3 look brighter in like 90% of these comparison which doesn't even warrant commenting on. As I've well belabored at this point, pancakes certainly have far larger eyeboxes and edge clarity than fresnels, the point you're missing is that if you're capable of getting into the eyebox (and PSVR2 is absolutely the most difficult headset by far), our eyes don't even see this "blurryness" you're trying to showcase here. We only see the clear center portion, that's why fixed foveated rendering works. Can you roll your eyes to the furthest extremeties and see it? Yes. Is it a massive omnipresent issue like the bright gray "black" levels and washed out color/contrast of LCD panels? No.

The benefits of pancakes have to outweigh what you're giving up, and in $500 headsets they do not, you're giving up too much. There's a fundamental difference in the degrees of the 2 scenarios we're presenting. Pancakes offer a relatively minor gain in lens clarity, chromatic abberation, and ease of fitment, but necessitate using garbage pale LCD's to meet the cost and lightout requirements. Fresnels offer relatively minor reductions in said lens clarity, but monumental multi-generational gains in display quality. That's the difference.

Again I'm going to disagree, fresnel lenses are absolutely terrible when compared to pancake lenses. How anyone(with several years knowledge abd experience in the VR domain) can argue that that is not important or at least at the same level as absolute blacks from OLED panels is beyond me, unless you're trying to sell PSVR2 units?

Yes OLED is better but not with fresnel lenses unless you like to always centre your head on what you're observing

 

[Haint]

It's only marginal in your opinion though. Kind of like the way you think brightness is some huge gamechanger and no one else even talks about that or brings it up. I tried it again today just to try and understand what you're talking about. I mean, even with Elite Dangerous its so minuscule compared to the clarity difference even with the better blacks and colors its not enough for me to choose PSVR2 in that case.

Just so everyone's clear here, you're saying the lens clarity is a night and day improvement, but the 60nit $10 burner phone LCD screens on the Q3 are a "minuscule" barely noticeable difference over OLED's.

Again I'm going to disagree, fresnel lenses are absolutely terrible when compared to pancake lenses. How anyone(with several years knowledge abd experience in the VR domain) can argue that that is not important or at least at the same level as absolute blacks from OLED panels is beyond me, unless you're trying to sell PSVR2 units?

Yes OLED is better but not with fresnel lenses unless you like to always centre your head on what you're observing

Nope you can quote me a few posts above saying PSVR2 is a terrible product with some of the worst design choices in VR industry history, and explicitly telling guy not buy one. The most succinct summary of what I'm actually saying can also be found above: "The benefits of pancakes have to outweigh what you're giving up, and in $500 headsets they do not, you're giving up too much. There's a fundamental difference in the degrees of the 2 scenarios we're presenting. Pancakes offer a relatively minor gain in lens clarity, chromatic abberation, and ease of fitment, but necessitate using garbage pale LCD's to meet the cost and light output requirements. Fresnels offer relatively minor reductions in said lens clarity, but monumental multi-generational gains in display quality. That's the difference."

TLDR: Fresnels + OLED are an infinitely better trade off than Pancakes + the trashest ass LCD's you own.

 

[Minsc]

This is a fun thread with lots of pics, particularly these two:

"A Camera doesn't discriminate—I've captured both the Quest 3 and PSVR2 equally in pro mode, with no auto processing or auto contrast settings and got in the sweet spot of both as much as i could. If these images don't do the PSVR2 justice, they won't do the Quest 3 justice either. That's the point of through-the-lens comparisons: to provide a level playing field."

---

Pretty much what I see around the edges of the PSVR2, especially with high contrast text. And the clarity of the pancake lens is just on a whole other level.

 

[Haint]

This is a fun thread with lots of pics, particularly these two:

"A Camera doesn't discriminate—I've captured both the Quest 3 and PSVR2 equally in pro mode, with no auto processing or auto contrast settings and got in the sweet spot of both as much as i could. If these images don't do the PSVR2 justice, they won't do the Quest 3 justice either. That's the point of through-the-lens comparisons: to provide a level playing field."

---

Pretty much what I see around the edges of the PSVR2, especially with high contrast text. And the clarity of the pancake lens is just on a whole other level.

I've been wrong all along. Quest 3 is actually 2-3x brighter than PSVR2, proven by random reddit guy's terrible cellphone pics, and PSVR2 actually looks like a kaleidoscope traveling through a space time warp in practice, you can't even tell what's going on, just have to guess what's happening. Highly accurate representation, looks exactly like this, or at least what I can see of it.

 

[Minsc]

I find that one particularly good as well. You get all that chromatic aberration on the PSVR2. And god rays. And triple images along the edges.

The last box does show a good example of the blacks too, they're worse on the Quest 3 no doubt. But shit is a lot clearer, and with less visual artifacts.

Anyone who can't see the flaws shown in these images on a PSVR2 is lying or just shouldn't be trusted IMO. They're clear as day.

 

[Haint]

I find that one particularly good as well. You get all that chromatic aberration on the PSVR2. And god rays. And triple images along the edges.

The last box does show a good example of the blacks too, they're worse on the Quest 3 no doubt. But shit is a lot clearer, and with less visual artifacts.

Anyone who can't see the flaws shown in these images on a PSVR2 is lying or just shouldn't be trusted IMO. They're clear as day.

Yes these are much better examples that are very close to what the proper eyebox looks like in PSVR2, with the caveat that the PSVR images should in reality be several times brighter than the Quest ones. The problem is actual game content is not text on white or black backgrounds so most of these artifacts are not really visible or bothersome in practice, and you spend very little time looking at the edge extremities on the whole. The last Quest glare pic also isn't just the LCD's, this is how glare presents in Q3's pancakes, it's a diffuse hazy/cloudy glare.

 

[Minsc]

Yes these are much better examples that are very close to what the proper eyebox looks like in PSVR2, with the caveat that the PSVR images should in reality be several times brighter than the Quest ones. The problem is actual game content is not text on white or black backgrounds so most of these artifacts are not really visible or bothersome in practice, and you spend very little time looking at the edge extremities on the whole. The last Quest glare pic also isn't just the LCD's, this is how glare presents in Q3's pancakes, it's a diffuse hazy/cloudy glare.

And the first two images are really not good representations of the PSVR2, really. I don't think you'd really notice the clarity in a A/B like the first shot, and the second is HUGELY exaggerated, but conveys the difference, although it's a lot more minute. Bad screens, but fun for anyone who thinks they're the truth. The one with the eye test is a lot more accurate. And the blacks on the Quest 3 are bad. I've said that from day 1, when I played Vader Immortal, and it was explained to me that was made for the Quest 1 with OLED, so it just looks wrong on the Quest 3 (and it really, really does).

I'll move on from the Quest 3 as soon as there's an option, but for now, what it provides, is some stuff I can't get with the PSVR2, so I'm happy for that.

 

[lmimmfn]

This is a fun thread with lots of pics, particularly these two:

"A Camera doesn't discriminate—I've captured both the Quest 3 and PSVR2 equally in pro mode, with no auto processing or auto contrast settings and got in the sweet spot of both as much as i could. If these images don't do the PSVR2 justice, they won't do the Quest 3 justice either. That's the point of through-the-lens comparisons: to provide a level playing field."

---

Pretty much what I see around the edges of the PSVR2, especially with high contrast text. And the clarity of the pancake lens is just on a whole other level.

That reddit thread is quite good actually, and i think this particular picture sums up my issue with fresnel lenses(easily visible in the "COCKPIT" and "CHASE" text), particularly the chromatic aberration which i cant stand even in pancake games on PC along with blur beyond the sweet spot.

Someone there summed it up quite well, PSVR2 wins for colour while Q3 wins for clarity.
Hopefully the new Steam VR headset or Q4 will have OLED + Pancake.

 

[Romulus]

Just so everyone's clear here, you're saying the lens clarity is a night and day improvement, but the 60nit $10 burner phone LCD screens on the Q3 are a "minuscule" barely noticeable difference over OLED's.

Didn't say anything was night and day. You did. I said by comparison, the clarity difference is more apparent immediately than what you've claimed. That's what my eyes immediately notice switching between the two.

I know alot of people like elite dangerous on psvr2 because of the dark background, so I used that example. But even then the first thing that hits me is the softer image. I just can't trade that personally. Not sure why preference equals lying or "problems with your eyes." People just like different things. Can you at least admit people have different visual preferences? Clearly being in the minority opinion you can?

 

[Romulus]

TLDR: Fresnels + OLED are an infinitely better trade off than Pancakes + the trashest ass LCD's you own.

Then why do so many that own both choose Quest 3 for PCVR? You keep failing to answer that outside of childish responses.

You keep avoiding a rational way to deal with this. We've had dozens of respected VR enthusiasts that have compared both headsets. Some of these guys go back to the DK1 years and are known in the community. Many are PSVR fans in general, like myself. So I'm genuinely curious how you can rationally say everyone who gives Quest 3 the edge is lying or has "eye problems."

Do you even begin to realize how ridiculous that sounds? It gives the impression that you lack depth as a person. Just the verbiage you use in the post above comes off like someone that's angry about a different opinion. It feels personal and insulting to you. Not to mention, you linger around in a Quest thread too just trashing the device and everyone's opinion. It's bizarre but also not that uncommon. It's called a troll that pretends to be unbiased. Everyone here is aware of the downfalls of Quest, but they made a decision based on its advantages. You're just in here telling people that its actually worse than what their eyes are seeing. lmao, its just an insane angle that I've never heard before.

 

[cyberheater]

I really think the PSVR2 is a pretty poor headset when used outside of gaming.

I would agree with that. For browsing, watching movies, productivity the Q3 is amazing.
For crawling through the dark subterranean catacombs of Metro and other games like that the PSVR2 is amazing. Actually bright games also look amazing on PSVR2.

We are very lucky to be alive with this tech.

 

[Haint]

Then why do so many that own both choose Quest 3 for PCVR? You keep failing to answer that outside of childish responses.

You keep avoiding a rational way to deal with this. We've had dozens of respected VR enthusiasts that have compared both headsets. Some of these guys go back to the DK1 years and are known in the community. Many are PSVR fans in general, like myself. So I'm genuinely curious how you can rationally say everyone who gives Quest 3 the edge is lying or has "eye problems."

Do you even begin to realize how ridiculous that sounds? It gives the impression that you lack depth as a person. Just the verbiage you use in the post above comes off like someone that's angry about a different opinion. It feels personal and insulting to you. Not to mention, you linger around in a Quest thread too just trashing the device and everyone's opinion. It's bizarre but also not that uncommon. It's called a troll that pretends to be unbiased. Everyone here is aware of the downfalls of Quest, but they made a decision based on its advantages. You're just in here telling people that its actually worse than what their eyes are seeing. lmao, its just an insane angle that I've never heard before.

I already responded directly to this, to you specifically, several posts ago (quoted below). Even I use Q3 more than PSVR2 for these reasons, its physical design is damn near unusable, and I have the globular cluster. The question you should actually be asking is if Meta made a "Quest 3 OLED HDR Edition" exactly as it is, but with Fresnel HDR OLEDs instead of Pancake SDR LCDs, would any of these Jesus level influencers you put so much stock in be using the LCD edition? Would any of you?

Your defense mechanism's activated cause from your perspective I'm in an Oculus thread "shilling" for Sony and "trolling" Facebook, but I don't give 2 shits about the companies. As I've already said both of their existing "solutions" are terrible and suggested not buying either one. What I'm actually doing is advocating for a product that marries the best of both worlds, and doesn't cost $1500+ from a Chinese con-artist or no-name startup who's more likely to declare bankruptcy next week than ship you a $2000 headset. Unfortunately for me, I happened to disparage your favorite Sportsball team and these 12 Meta Disciples you keep referring to who proselytize on their behalf.

Cause PSVR2 is by far the most uncomfortable and most unweildy headset on the market. The overall physical design is just dreadful. Very difficult to put on and take off frequently compared to other headsets, which creators of all types do constantly. And of course it's wired on top of that. I'd also use a Q3 almost exclusively given their use case.

You also have to remember Facebook loses $15+ billion (Billion with a B) every year on VR alone, so there's a high probability they're sponsoring everyone who's even tangentially involved in VR "influencing". Which given your commentary, would seem to be an absolutely brilliant (and probably very cheap) marketing strategy.

I would agree with that. For browsing, watching movies, productivity the Q3 is amazing.
For crawling through the dark subterranean catacombs of Metro and other games like that the PSVR2 is amazing. Actually bright games also look amazing on PSVR2.

We are very lucky to be alive with this tech.

This is the problem with Q3, it was designed in large part as a 2D content consumption and productivity device cause they knew that's what Vision Pro was going to be. The thing is nobody uses VR for that, it's nowhere near the point of replacing computers or monitors/TVs

 

[Come On Tars]

Anyone here lay Dirt 2.0 with pcvr? Bought it on sale yesterday and am having issues with the headset disconnecting and the graphics being trash. On a 4070

 

[Romulus]

I already responded directly to this, to you specifically, several posts ago (quoted below). Even I use Q3 more than PSVR2 for these reasons, its physical design is damn near unusable, and I have the globular cluster. The question you should actually be asking is if Meta made a "Quest 3 OLED HDR Edition" exactly as it is, but with Fresnel HDR OLEDs instead of Pancake SDR LCDs, would any of these Jesus level influencers you put so much stock in be using the LCD edition? Would any of you?

VR enthusiasts aren't giving quest 3 the PCVR edge for non gaming reasons. And it's obviously sponsored lmao, just like the majority of discord and reddit users everyone is lying of course and getting moneyhatted. Everyone is either paid off or bad eyesight. It's just ridiculous that you can't admit people can choose Q3 for clarity reasons. I did my own comparisons just like many others. You still avoid the question of course.

 

[Haint]

VR enthusiasts aren't giving quest 3 the PCVR edge for non gaming reasons. And it's obviously sponsored lmao, just like the majority of discord and reddit users everyone is lying of course and getting moneyhatted. Everyone is either paid off or bad eyesight. It's just ridiculous that you can't admit people can choose Q3 for clarity reasons. I did my own comparisons just like many others. You still avoid the question of course.

What question exactly haven't I addressed? Your appeal to authority referenced Youtubers and developers using Q3 as evidence they hold it as the benchmark of VR visuals. I've responded they may just find it significantly more comfortable, much easier to get into and out of, prefer the lack of a wire, prefer the much less bulbous controllers, prefer the pass-through, prefer to develop on the device 99% of their customers own, or are in some way sponsored by Facebook's $15+ Billion annual VR spend, etc... You do understand how much money 15 Billion dollars is, yes? They could literally release a $100 million dollar AAA VR game every 2 or 3 days for a year with $15 Billion annually, that's 150 $100 Million dollar games. I promise you can they toss some chump change to VR Youtubers.

I can't really respond to anything else because as you point out I've made my position clear--I genuinely do believe anyone who has actually sat down and A/B'ed PSVR2 and Quest 3 back to back, on the same PCVR game, and still prefers Q3 VISUALLY (and visually only) hasn't found (or is perhaps incompatible with) PSVR's eyebox, is just outright lying about having ever compared them, or has some sort of visual impairment or mental retardation that renders them incapable of performing a qualitative assessment of image quality.

 

[fart town usa]

Anyone ever play Undead Citadel? I snagged it over the weekend and played a bit. Seems fun so far but relatively janky and the performance can be rough at times, that was on fidelity though, performance mode might resolve that.

Seems like a cool game though.

Still chipping away at Batman, that game is so dope. Still impressed.

Also snagged Killer Frequency, had no idea it had a VR version and its quite cheap right now, I think it's $10, normally $30.

I am experiencing a weird issue though that I think stems from the recent OS update. Every now and then, the Quest will spit me into the virtual hub, but it shows my wife's avatar and I can't leave the world. It's definitely an error. I have to shut down to resolve it.

I wish you could disable 100% of that stuff. Not only does it take up space, I have zero interest in utilizing it. Meta seems like they want to brute force you into their social hub, hate that stuff. Just be happy I bought your headset and buy games on the store.

 

[fart town usa]

It can make a huge difference in some instances. I found in Minigolf, to look down at the ball, then to determine the angle I aim my vision towards the edge of the FOV, so I can see the hole and the ball at the same time and connect the two. On the PSVR2 I get horrible detail of the hole location along the edge of my FOV, so I need to move my head to center the target. Now I can't see the ball's location anymore. On the Quest 3 you can make out both in clearer detail at once.

Same for watching media content with subtitles, reading the text that displays along the bottom is really not great on the PSVR2. Especially if it's white on black. I really think the PSVR2 is a pretty poor headset when used outside of gaming.

The PSVR2 outside of gaming is useless as can be. I use the virtual screen at times for 4k blurays but even then, it looks better on my TV. Flat games look like hell on the virtual screen, a fuzzy mess. It's a shame because it'd be an awesome way to play flat games if the clarity didn't suffer. It's weird too because flat games on PSVR were tolerable for me, I played PS4 Village on the virtual screen and it was pretty cool and somewhat immersive. I thought I could do the same with Ghostwire: Tokyo on PSVR2 but the clarity just isn't there.

 

[Romulus]

I can't really respond to anything else because as you point out I've made my position clear--I genuinely do believe anyone who has actually sat down and A/B'ed PSVR2 and Quest 3 back to back, on the same PCVR game, and still prefers Q3 VISUALLY (and visually only) hasn't found (or is perhaps incompatible with) PSVR's eyebox, is just outright lying about having ever compared them, or has some sort of visual impairment or mental retardation that renders them incapable of performing a qualitative assessment of image quality.

The idea that every user review on every forum, reddit, discord, every media journalist, every YouTube review(small and large channels) that prefer the lcd/pancakes for Quest 3 for gaming are all flawed/moneyhatted is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read here.

This is absolutely mental. Opinions and preferences 101.

Most people that prefer one over the other are objective. Often stating something like: "I can see where someone might prefer the pancake lenses for gaming but I like the OLED etc" Or often stating: "it's close but I prefer psvr2 for gaming."

The same is true for people that prefer Quest 3 for gaming.

So by default, you think everyone that sees it as as a competitive visual comparison between the two as flat out wrong too. You're completely locked in by your comments. For it to be a 100% honest review, someone has to state psvr2 visuals win by a landslide, or they're retarded/partially blind etc by your logic.

That essentially puts your opinion alone on an island shouting that everyone else is wrong, even the overwhelming majority of people that choose psvr2. It's just bonkers irrational stance.

 

[Haint]

The idea that every user review on every forum, reddit, discord, every media journalist, every YouTube review(small and large channels) that prefer the lcd/pancakes for Quest 3 for gaming are all flawed/moneyhatted is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read here.

This is absolutely mental. Opinions and preferences 101.

Most people that prefer one over the other are objective. Often stating something like: "I can see where someone might prefer the pancake lenses for gaming but I like the OLED etc" Or often stating: "it's close but I prefer psvr2 for gaming."

The same is true for people that prefer Quest 3 for gaming.

So by default, you think everyone that sees it as as a competitive visual comparison between the two as flat out wrong too. You're completely locked in by your comments. For it to be a 100% honest review, someone has to state psvr2 visuals win by a landslide, or they're retarded/partially blind etc by your logic.

That essentially puts your opinion alone on an island shouting that everyone else is wrong, even the overwhelming majority of people that choose psvr2. It's just bonkers irrational stance.

You never addressed my question. If Facebook made a "Quest 3 OLED Edition", otherwise identical for the same price, but with the 3S's fresnels and HDR OLED panels, do you actually believe all your favorite Youtubers, developers, redditors, and discorders would still be using the LCD edition? Would you? Would everyone else in this thread? Have you ever used a 3S?

Your position all along has been that fresnels are effectively unusable, while pancakes are so vastly superior they make LCDs a "miniscule" downgrade and tradeoff by comparison. Can you, your influencer heroes, and everyone else in here honestly answer that you would still be struggle bussing through those milk gray, 600:1,washed out LCDs? Honestly?

 

[lmimmfn]

You never addressed my question. If Facebook made a "Quest 3 OLED Edition", otherwise identical for the same price, but with the 3S's fresnels and HDR OLED panels, do you actually believe all your favorite Youtubers, developers, redditors, and discorders would still be using the LCD edition. Would you? Would everyone else in this thread? Have you ever used a 3S?

Your position all along has been that fresnels are effectively unusable, while pancakes are so vastly superior they make LCDs a "miniscule" downgrade and tradeoff. Can you, your heroes, and everyone else in here honestly answer that you would still be struggle bussing with those milk gray, 600:1,washed out LCDs? Honestly?

Pancakes + OLED is the only upgrade I would accept, fresnels suck.

 

[Romulus]

You never addressed my question. If Facebook made a "Quest 3 OLED Edition", otherwise identical for the same price, but with the 3S's fresnels and HDR OLED panels, do you actually believe all your favorite Youtubers, developers, redditors, and discorders would still be using the LCD edition. Would you? Would everyone else in this thread? Have you ever used a 3S?

Your position all along has been that fresnels are effectively unusable, while pancakes are so vastly superior they make LCDs a "miniscule" downgrade and tradeoff. Can you, your heroes, and everyone else in here honestly answer that you would still be struggle bussing with those milk gray, 600:1,washed out LCDs? Honestly?

Deflection tactics. I simply don't know. I would assume many would still choose pancakes because there's a clear clarity advantage still. There's no need to delve further into hypotheticals though.

You're attempting to move the conversation away from your ridiculous position. You believe that everyone that prefers Quest 3 pancake lenses for gaming is either a liar, paid off, or retarded. Again, you're shouting from an island that everyone else is wrong. You've even managed to disparage people that somewhat agree with you because their opinion wouldn't be extreme enough in favor of PSVR2. I'm not sure if they'd be labeled retarded or blind.

 

[Haint]

Pancakes + OLED is the only upgrade I would accept, fresnels suck.

Unfortunately this isn't actually a choice in an affordable headset for at least the next 5-10 years. Pancake lenses absorb 80-90%+ of light which necessitates a display capable of several thousand full screen nits, which isn't achievable with traditional OLED panels. MicroOLED's are the only medium term solution, which are and will continue to be very expensive by nature of being "fabbed" like microchips. Meta recently canceled a Quest Pro 2 candidate because they concluded it was impossible to ship a mOLED headset under $1000 IN 2027. Your only options are fresnel OLED or pancake LCD.

Deflection tactics. I simply don't know. I would assume many would still choose pancakes because there's a clear clarity advantage still. There's no need to delve further into hypotheticals though.

You're attempting to move the conversation away from your ridiculous position. You believe that everyone that prefers Quest 3 pancake lenses for gaming is either a liar, paid off, or retarded. Again, you're shouting from an island that everyone else is wrong. You've even managed to disparage people that somewhat agree with you because their opinion wouldn't be extreme enough in favor of PSVR2. I'm not sure if they'd be labeled retarded or blind.

You don't even understand what my position is if you think that question is deflection, it's literally just a succinct restatement of what I've been saying this whole time. You're still hung up on your implied console war between Sony/Meta, PSVR/Quest thinking I'm just here to troll and shit on Facebook. I simply presented you with a scenario of my argument that removes that variable.

 

[Romulus]

You don't even understand what my position is if you think that question is deflection, it's literally just a succinct restatement of what I've been saying this whole time. You're still hung up on your implied console war between Sony/Meta, PSVR/Quest thinking I'm just here to troll and shit on Facebook. I simply presented you with a scenario of my argument that removes that variable.

How could anyone that says such be taken as anything but a fanboy? Or maybe you're just being so ridiculous it comes off that way. I mean, I'm not sure which is better.

You believe that everyone that prefers Quest 3 pancake lenses for gaming is either a liar, paid off, or retarded.

The fact that you don't deny this is even better. I've essentially taken away all your arguments on the matter by proving you incapable of objectively. If you're not truly objective, there's no point. I won't be responding further. You're either stealth troll, ridiculous, or both.

 

[Haint]

How could anyone that says such be taken as anything but a fanboy? Or maybe you're just being so ridiculous it comes off that way. I mean, I'm not sure which is better.



The fact that you don't deny this is even better. I've essentially taken away all your arguments on the matter by proving you incapable of objectively. If you're not truly objective, there's no point. I won't be responding further. You're either stealth troll, ridiculous, or both.

Deny it? I've stated it at least twice and said I have absolute confidence in it. There are wacko's that prefer well done steaks, 600lbs beached whale women, and spinach garlic flavored ice cream, but everybody recognizes they're retarded and objectively wrong.

 

[fart town usa]

Changed to performance mode in Undead Citadel and it seems to have resolved the performance issues, so far at least.

This is a really fun game, it's still janky in various ways but it hasn't been too much of a nuisance.

 

[Romulus]

Changed to performance mode in Undead Citadel and it seems to have resolved the performance issues, so far at least.

This is a really fun game, it's still janky in various ways but it hasn't been too much of a nuisance.

What do you lose with performance mode? Do you have quest optimizer? I notice alot of games you can smooth out performance and even increase resolution in many cases.

 

[fart town usa]

What do you lose with performance mode? Do you have quest optimizer? I notice alot of games you can smooth out performance and even increase resolution in many cases.

I haven't tried quest optimizer yet. I'm sure I will at some point but I really don't sweat visuals too much in VR. The immersion factor doesn't really exist for me anymore, in my brain I'm well aware I'm inside a videogame and nothing feels "real", I'm simply navigating a game. Lol. (I like that though).

I suspect you lose out on resolution in performance but the game isn't much of a looker in either mode. Not that it's ugly, it's relatively impressive for an indie VR game but whatever changed went unnoticed to me.

 

[Romulus]

There are wacko's that prefer well done steaks, 600lbs beached whale women, and spinach garlic flavored ice cream, but everybody recognizes they're retarded and objectively wrong.

Immediately after I think it's time to move on, you show up and nuke your own argument? Ok.

My entire point has been you stand alone with your rare opinion, even separating yourself from others that choose psvr2. Now you're saying people with an extreme minority opinion are essentially objectively wrong.

Glad we agree.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Random: I managed to get SteamVR (and Alyx) running completely via my Macbook (M3 36GB) -> Quest3 for the first time.

I previously used a separate windows machine that was kind of a pain to boot up, but just as proof of concept, I wanted to see how far the M3 could go. So it does work, if you:

• boot Windows 11 ARM in VMWare
• use their GPU acceleration bridge and max out its memory
• give the VM as many cores as possible (leave maybe 4 for main OS)
• use ALVR for the streaming to headset (Virtual Desktop doesn't run in VM yet)

I get acceptable performance for The Lab and Alyx -- can't bump up the settings from their low defaults but it works. It would be even better if we could do it natively, because the extra detour through the VM is what makes it less than spectacular. But it's pretty good.

 

[Haint]

Immediately after I think it's time to move on, you show up and nuke your own argument? Ok.

My entire point has been you stand alone with your rare opinion, even separating yourself from others that choose psvr2. Now you're saying people with an extreme minority opinion are essentially objectively wrong.

Glad we agree.

It only seems like a rare opinion because you're in a Quest bubble still convinced this is console wars bullshitery. You would find polar opposite responses in a PSVR specific community where no one would give up HDR OLEDs for pancakes and SDR LCDs. The thing is Quest has outsold every other headset by like 30:1 which means the aggregate VR community is effectively a Quest specific reddit or thread. A super majority of the broader VR community "daily drives" Q3's (myself included) because it's currently the best designed affordable headset with the most features, as I've already said a dozen times. Helped immensely by the fact its only mainstream competitor is perhaps the worst designed headset of all time. Quests only real problem is its displays are trash. That's why the hypothetical "Quest 3 OLED Edition" I proposed is the best illustration of my point, it removes the console wars nonsense that compells you to defend your team and product.

 

[BackBackPunch]

It only seems like a rare opinion because you're in a Quest bubble still convinced this is console wars bullshitery. You would find polar opposite responses in a PSVR specific community where no one would give up HDR OLEDs for pancakes and SDR LCDs. The thing is Quest has outsold every other headset by like 30:1 which means the aggregate VR community is effectively a Quest specific reddit or thread. A super majority of the broader VR community "daily drives" Q3's (myself included) because it's currently the best designed affordable headset with the most features, as I've already said a dozen times. Helped immensely by the fact its only mainstream competitor is perhaps the worst designed headset of all time. Quests only real problem is its displays are trash. That's why the hypothetical "Quest 3 OLED Edition" I proposed is the best illustration of my point, it removes the console wars nonsense that compells you to defend your team and product.

You keep acting like OLED is somehow issue-free, but the reality is that OLED has a lot of problems that are even more apparent in a VR application.
For one, OLED pixels are either ON or OFF, which means to get dark grays, OLEDs have to cycle the pixels on and off at a high rate of speed to fool your eyes into seeing gray rather than simply reducing the light for those pixels.
And this is a huge issue in VR, because it creates extremely noticable (and ugly) black-smear in dark scenes with a lot of motion which totally kills any immersion you gain from the higher contrast from the OLED. You also have mura issues that are typically much worse on OLEDs the higher you run the brightness in dark scenes. The Quest 1 had an OLED display, and the mura and black smear were dealbreakers for me. Can't stand it.
On top of that, the PSVR2 has the worst motion persistence out of any VR headset, which you can only work-around by....turning the brightness way down.

Why PSVR 2 is more likely to make you sick than other VR headsets

Brad Lynch shows in a video why PSVR 2 might cause more nausea in some people and how to mitigate the problem.

mixed-news.com

So, if a person absolutely cannot deal with black smear and image persistence, then LCD panels are the better alternative.

 

[Minsc]

I have seen quite a few people with both headsets say they prefer the Quest because motion is very blurry on the PSVR2 in multiple games, but it's ymmv. I personally found the REPROJECTED motion of RE8 to be right up my alley on PSVR2, had 0 issues with it, loved every second, and feel the black blacks helped the game out more than it hurt it.

But this is no different than arguing the worst / best FF games - it's an argument that never can end, other than just acknowledging the issues, which all parties have done, and realizing you have your preferences and others have their own, and everyone wins if you get along!

 

[Romulus]

Haven't tried this with UEVR, but I bet its good.


.