The Pleasure
Member
Unfortunately yes.
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$20 minimum wage for fast food workers in California
- Thread starter Eiknarf
- Start date
The Pleasure
Member
This is proof you haven't been to a mcdonalds in at least a decade. They haven't flipped burgers in ages.
PonyStation4
Member
Minimum wage in Canada is $17.30 ($12.80 US)
The US increase would be equivalent to $27.06 CAD
The US increase would be equivalent to $27.06 CAD
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I doubt he'd even last in a service job like McDonalds. Most people I know who've moved onto mid skilled jobs say they were more stressed back then than in their current jobs. Takeaways specifically were horrible
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The Pleasure
Member
You see how many people fuck with those kiosks? I've seen people walk out if there's nobody there. Automation isn't going to replace the human touch mang.
Puscifer
Member
Again, if you were in California Chick Fil A and In and Out were paying 20/17 respectively since at least 2017/2018 and prices were the exact same till inflation hit.
BacklashWave534
Member
This is a bad argument. There is a massive shortage of people in the trades. If you own a house you would know it can take 3 months to get an electrician or contractor out to fix something. Our nation has aging infrastructure and desperately needs these people but for some reason you are defending your take on creating an army of burger flippers. How about instead of $20 an hour we pay less and offer incentives like free or reduced tuition, flexible schedules so people have time to study, learn skills, etc. We should be pushing Americans forward, not creating a the subserviant class that feeds off those who worked their asses off to get to our level. We should instead be doing everything in our power to be assisting those people into eventually becoming our equals in the job market.
Socialism has never saved anyone. It kicks the ladder out so no one can make it to the top. If you think it's the answer you are lost.
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The Pleasure
Member
You're also forgetting that the trades don't pay shit until you're considered a master. Apprentice and Journeymen make a shitload less. But by the time you get to that level, you're done. My father is in his fifties, can barely walk, blew out his legs, back and he has a stiff neck. This isn't just him either. I've seen many people that are in "the trades" that are fucked in their forties. They tell people point blank if you have any other options, stay away from the trades.
And I wouldn't disparage burger flippers. if you've seen some of the shit I got that technically is a "burger" I'd say a fine crafted burger that doesn't look or taste like shit is an actual skill.
And you're saying free/reduced tuition and flexible schedules? Sounds like socialism to me.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I've seen that too - but eventually you reach a tipping point, especially with a chain the size of McDonalds. The old out of touch people who outright refuse to use a kiosk are already a pretty small segment of their customer base, and as time goes on that number will get smaller and smaller. Eventually those people will be a segment of customers that fast food places won't want to serve anyway, due to the costs. We're almost there now, I suspect in the next 5-10 years it'll be impossible to find a fast food chain in the US where an actual person will take your order.
The Pleasure
Member
Have you ever seen someone rub their ass on a kiosk? Both Cheeks In Betwixt the crease, brown streaks, devious licks. Now excuse me while I get the hand sanitizer. But seriously. Those old people are sizeable since they're the ones that go to those places daily and get a sausage egg mcmuffin and an over priced hash brown with coffee.
Businesses do NOT want to turn away any customer, especially a demographic that loves routine.
cormack12
Gold Member
You're living in an age where most consumers only want contact with their deliveroo driver, and even most of them want their food left at the door.
There will be a tipping point where the resistant demographic ages out, and you can transition over to the 'not a fan of' but can/will use. That is imminent.
It's always money. Sure, you may get shops like Booths or M&S which focus on that premium customer service experience that keep a small number of traditional tills for their seniors but these are outliers and will be tactical solutions rather than strategy defining. Humans, sick days, HR issues, overtime, inconsistent productivity and efficiency etc. Why would you pay a premium for this? Really, this is about shrinking the workforce and driving adoption of tech. But underlying it is a very conservative ideal - not saying that is good or bad but it exists. Half of current employees will win, the other half will be cast aside with a shrinking retail market to acquire a new job. Which naturally leads to the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality.
Must-Know Self Checkout Statistics [Latest Report] • Gitnux
The use of self-checkout systems has become increasingly popular in recent years, with 73% of consumers preferring them over staffed checkout lines. This
gitnux.org
The benefits just scale too much. Probably the biggest issue stopping wide spread adoption is the companies all vying for a slice of the market. It will explode when there is more homogenisation of the interfaces, software and mechanicals. At the moment we can't even get a consistent experience on pay at pump fuel, or scrabbling round for the scanner part of a checkout. But it's coming. Whether we like it or not.
cormack12
Gold Member
I gotta ask brah - where the fuck do you live? The chimp enclosure at San Diego zoo?
The Pleasure
Member
Have you not seen Tiktok and Youtube Shenanigans? Have you never been caught witnessing the majesty of Gen Alpha rubbing their ass on a kiosk while having 80s flashbacks of the mullet that looks like Party Up Front/Unemployment in the back?
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Can't say I've ever seen someone rubbing their ass on one of these, but it wouldn't surprise me. I *have* seen people put their ass and/or genitals on a fast food service counter before - people can be animals no matter the context.
There's a Wendy's where I live that's gone to fully "digital" ordering. They did this because they can barely staff the place with people making the food, let alone having people at the counter or drive through taking people's orders. If you go inside the establishment, you have a giant touch screen kiosk to order from as your only option. If you go through the drive thru, they have this like computer assisted voice recognition thing that's as terrible as it sounds. It's creepy how soulless and lifeless this thing sounds
AI: "Hi welcome to Wendys! Would you like to try our fresh baked cookies today? Only $0.99, and baked fresh, every day!"
Me: "Um... no"
AI: "OK, I'd be happy to take your order whenever you're ready! If you have any questions about our menu, just ask!"
Me: "I'd like a cheeseburger"
AI: "ONE CHEESEBURGER" (screen updates to reflect order)
Repeat
The tech will obviously improve and become more natural in the next few years (like I said, 10 tops before they start turning people away). And, a restaurant will 100% turn away paying customers when those customers become unprofitable. If you have to pay someone $20+ an hour to just stand there and punch someone's order into a computer, keeping in mind this will become more and more rare that people will even want to do that, then you're either going to have to implement some kind of surcharge added to the order, or you'll have to raise the price of food for everyone to help cover that cost.
The Pleasure
Member
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Here's an image someone posted on Reddit (not California) of an "all-digital" McDonalds lobby
So yeah, it's definitely a thing that's starting to happen, and it's only a matter of time before it happens everywhere.
So yeah, it's definitely a thing that's starting to happen, and it's only a matter of time before it happens everywhere.
This is also a bullshit take. There are plenty of jobs that need highly skilled people that pay dogshit. EMTs are the first that come to mind when I see this take. EMTs are some of the most skilled people working a hard job, both physically and mentally, and they get paid garbage wages. The fact of the matter is this: If you need a worker to do a job, they have to make enough to survive to do your fucking job. And if the American way of life would die if we paid people a livable wage, then the American way of life should die.
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This is only California. Minimum wage in Alabama is still $7.25/hr. Federal minimum wage hasn't gone up since 2009. But guess what, Alabama is just as unlivable as anywhere else.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Because of corporate greed and bought and paid for politicos
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Mihos
Gold Member
Who decides "what they deserve"? Fast food when compared to any other minimum wage job would come in ass last on benefit to society
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Not in my opinion.
You’re paid what you are worth and willing to accept.
Should a 10 year old paperboy make enough money to live off? Not to me. But if a newspaper company wants to pay the guy $50,000 go ahead. But instead they probably get paid min wage.
If EMTs get paid crap that’s their problem. There must be a reason why an EMT gets paid lousy, a business grad being a junior analyst gets paid decent and why the posterboy google coder gets paid $200,000. Simple. The company thinks they are worth it and trying to offer them $30,000 won’t cut it. It if an EMT guy wants to accept low wages that’s in him. I decline jobs myself that pay low when a recruiter gets hold of me saying a job is available.
Most jobs in the world pay way higher than minimum wage (or close to it). So it can’t be that hard to make decent money. The avg wages in US and is around $55000 I think. Maybe even $60000 by now. If the avg min wage is somewhere between $10-15/hr (equivalent to $20-30,000). So it shows the avg person makes double a min wage jobber. And that $55000 even includes being weighted down by people making $20,000.
So money is out there. By the sounds of it, a garbage man probably makes more than an EMT worker. And so does an accounts payables clerk. There’s got to be reasons for that.
You bring up highly skilled EMT workers get paid bad. We’ll it goes both ways. A lot of office workers I work with are numb nuts but get paid $100,000 + bonus. As long as you know how to use outlook and a spreadsheet some companies will offer an analyst job despite them being morons. As I said there’s money floating around.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
StreetsofBeige
so an EMT worker doesn't rate in your opinion?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
You get what you’re paid.
Googling it, it’s hard to figure out an exact avg US wage for EMT. But it looks like maybe around $20/hr.
If you and Blade thinks that’s too low, ok then what do you think they should be paid?
Sorry, but what capitalism considers worthwhile and what regular humans think is worthwhile are two different things. Capitalism thinks the people moving money around deserves more than the people literally building homes and skyscrapers. But only one actually makes our country better (not the paper pushers, fyi). And I want EMTs to be paid more than system's analysts. Do you think if/when you have a massive heart attack, the person saving your life deserves to be living out of their car/barely surviving? If so you're a horrible person, in my opinion. But go ahead, keep taking from the bottom and pushing it to the top and see how soon you'll need an EMT when the flood doors burst open. Boeing's quality slipping is just the beginning. Because as a society we reward the people doing nothing instead of the people building the fucking plane.
They already do that to fast food employees. That's not going to change.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Hey Blade. You can laugh all you want, but as I said most people don’t make min wage or close to it. And a good chunk of them are students. So it can’t be that hard to find a decent job.
Out of school at my first office job I was paid $40,000 way back like 25 years ago. That’s the equivalent of $20/hr right there knowing nothing but textbook theory.
Money is out there. You just got to pick the right career and move up the ladder and you get paid more.
Not hard.
Out of school at my first office job I was paid $40,000 way back like 25 years ago. That’s the equivalent of $20/hr right there knowing nothing but textbook theory.
Money is out there. You just got to pick the right career and move up the ladder and you get paid more.
Not hard.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
For people who LITERALLY save lives before a doctor ever gets to the patients, they rate higher than one of your buddies who sits in an office doing paperwork that doesn't even come CLOSE to doing what an EMT does!
They deserve WAY ABOVE $20 an hour. The pay rate should have kept up with the cost of inflation and not stopped when Ford was President.
20 should be base pay. It was either Truman or Eisenhower who knew that corporate America should pay far more than they do now... Back then the marginal tax rate was in the 90% range. That's how the Hwy system and other things were paid for.
Honestly, you ALWAYS defend even the worst corporate practices when these threads come up. You look down on blue collar workers all the time... Just like you did in this thread.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I knew you wouldn’t answer with a specific number because anytime someone asks what a low paid job should be better paid nobody ever has the guts to state a number. And the reason why you don’t is because you know if you state a bad number it’ll be laughed at.
I know youre itching to say $40 or $50/hr but you can’t say that or else you’ll look greedy. So leaving it open ended at base $20 leaves a subjective outcome.
But even if you did state a number it doesn’t matter because google seems to say the avg EMT guy gets paid about $40,000. So that’s the going rate what they are worth.
Just like why is a tech coder worth $200,000? The guy might be fresh out of tech programs. But to google or Netflix they are $200,000.
Don’t get mad at me. I’m not in charge of paying EMT workers. I just worry about my own career.
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You don't get that 40,000 25 years ago was a shit ton more than 40,000 now. That's the issue. Wages have been stagnant for decades. Minimum wage increases are a necessity, especially when everything costs 10x more than 25 years ago.
nush
Member
Be me, over 150 Job applications since January. Oh it really is and I'm asking for 25% less than my previous roles (Not that I tell them that).
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And guess what? The new grads getting jobs now are getting around $70,000. And things have not gone up 10x vs 25 years ago. Most stuff hasn’t even doubled in price than 25 years ago.
And besides, if anyone wants good money then get a job that pays good money. And if they can’t and are a forever burger flipper for 40 years then too bad. You’re at the bottom and expecting to raise a family on a Big Mac flipping job is asking a lot from customers and the store manager.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
No, they're going back to Mac Ds lmao
Jobs aren't infinite. Someone has to be a burger flipper and they don't deserve poverty because you think they fucking do. You aren't special. You can be replaced just as easily as the burger flippers you enjoy looking down on. And when you retire or if you die while still employed, they will do just that. You don't deserve anything more than the burger flipper you so malign.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And without the system analysts and paper pushers you hate there wouldn’t even be a company to exist to pay people to begin with.
And going by 99% of the people out there, they don’t create businesses, don’t risk anything, and don’t pay anyone a dime. They wait for a company to hire them. If nobody does they got no job and no money.
The easiest way to make money is add value. And when a company or government hiring people sees you got value and there’s hardly anyone fighting for the same job, you’ll get paid.
Just like what I said before. My company can hire probably 3 people out of school for the same comp I get paid. On paper, 3 brains is better than 1. So every veteran workers here should be fired any day now and replaced by tons of college grads. Or even better just hire 1 for 1 and ban the rest. They don’t. But no company out there will hire all low wagers unless it’s something like McDonald’s which any high school kid can even start PT and do a good job.
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The difference between me and you is that I believe the paper pushers, systems analysts, EMTs, and burger flippers all deserve a life worth living. Because they all do a job that's necessary.
Davey Cakes
Member
You need to pay the bills while gaining the knowledge and skills to get a higher paying job. So you work at McD’s making $20 an hour to survive until you’re able to land the job that pays $40 an hour to thrive.
Why is this complicated?
Employees that are happier and more productive are more valuable to a company than employees that are miserable.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Everyone forgets this... Or doesn't realize it.
Eiknarf
Banned
I guess the question is what kind of life?
An apartment for $1000 a month?
A house? Mortgage?
A $200,000 house?
A $600,000 house?
And how many kids?
One kid?
Zero kids?
Five kids?
What brand car?
What year car?
City?
Suburbs?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
In all... That 20 an hour in California isn't going to have folks living the high life. Cost of living out there (depending on the city and county) is astronomically prohibitive! They'd STILL need to have a roommate or have a working spouse and/or kids to make a somewhat comfortable life... And STILL have a regimented budget.
That same amount in some other states or cities outside of CA can go a bit further... Even with reduced hours worked.
or they just don't care. "I struggled so you should too."
We'll figure it out together. I'll say this. It's somewhere between Homeless while working every day of your life and owning 5 yachts. Let's figure out what we as a society think a dignified life is, and then make sure we all get to have one.
EDIT: I get that we have scarce resources, but for me, I want a society that takes away yachts before it makes more people homeless. And we are not living in that society. People would rather the already exorbitantly wealthy have 5 more yachts than to feed and house the needy. Than to let a burger flipper have 40k/year and not struggle. Well, more people will eat a burger on our planet than own yahcts, so who is doing more for society? it's the burger flipper.
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That is true. I only go there under EXTREME duress because if my kids. The 'new' McRib was soooo bad I shoulda forced them to pay me to finish it.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Some of these fast food workers deal with more than just polite customers... Some get either "Karens" or some customers who are downright violent! Like the douchebag of the day right here:
Customer pulls gun on Burger King employee after getting a discounted breakfast, police say
In images released by police, the suspect is seen pointing a gun at the drive-thru window of the Willowick Burger King where the employee worked.
www.usatoday.com
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BadBurger
Banned
Some of these fast food workers deal with more than just polite customers... Some get either "Karens" or some customers who are downright violent! Like the douchebag of the day right here:
Customer pulls gun on Burger King employee after getting a discounted breakfast, police say
In images released by police, the suspect is seen pointing a gun at the drive-thru window of the Willowick Burger King where the employee worked.www.usatoday.com
I was a waiter and cook all throughout high school and college. The shit hospitality people have to put up with is insane.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I worked in the kitchen at both Shoney's and Red Lobster... The crap you have to deal with is insane in the lobby. Even in the South.
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