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[kiunchbb]

Jobs aren't infinite. Someone has to be a burger flipper and they don't deserve poverty because you think they fucking do. You aren't special. You can be replaced just as easily as the burger flippers you enjoy looking down on. And when you retire or if you die while still employed, they will do just that. You don't deserve anything more than the burger flipper you so malign.

Burger flipping used to be for teens and college students, it sucks that some adults are forced to do that for a living; but there should be some personal responsibility.

A lot of Chinese migrant take up odd jobs like unlicensed plumbing, electrician, home repair/renovation, requires no degree or even English speaking skill, easily making 400k a year. The hard part is learning the trade, and you have to work several years for less than minimum wages to learn the skill. If a 45 years old that speak no English can be in the process of buying their 3rd house after 20 years, no able body has any excuse. That dude still speak zero English, had to paid him 50k to fix my place up 2 weeks ago.

Even if you are making minimum wage, most people ignore the benefits you get, food stamp, rent assistance, child credit, Obamacare, ssi, reduced utilities bill, free home weathering (insulation/central heating/toilet seat/shower head), a few years ago there’s even free full solar panel, 15k credit (not including the current federal credit) for electric car by trading in any junk car, free bus pass, free driver that take you to doctor appointments, etc. the food stamp as a family of 4 is impossible to use up if you cook at home, most people use those remaining funds for lobster or other expensive food at the end of the month. My family got so much free vitamin supplements and medicines we used to bring those back to China for relatives.

I know because I grow up in low income family. When I finally entered university, I received a “bill” from the state, and it say negative $2.5k per quarter, I thought I need to find a job to pay for that. Ended up that’s the extra money left from my financial aides that I can use for anything. Keep in mind I had 2.4 gpa and zero scholarships. I eventually have to pay it all back from paying taxes, but no regrets. The social mobility is fucking op in America. If you doubt what I said, go to your local food bank, you can walk out with a week worth of grocery without any questions.

There’s a reason why we have a labor shortage, and need undocumented immigrants for low end jobs; because no one with the right mind would do those jobs unless it pay more than their benefits, or they willing to pay you under the table. Most people only have incentive to work for social security credit. The only thing minimum wage increase is cost of living, people on assistance will get inflation adjustment; but middle class will get slaughter since they will never get the same increase.

If you worry about poor people in America, don’t, they are eating good; unless they are addicted to something. Millions of migrants come here for a reason, and the main reason is definitely not “freedom” or “democracy”.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Burger flipping used to be for teens and college students, it sucks that some adults are forced to do that for a living; but there should be some personal responsibility.

A lot of Chinese migrant take up odd jobs like unlicensed plumbing, electrician, home repair/renovation, requires no degree or even English speaking skill, easily making 400k a year. The hard part is learning the trade, and you have to work several years for less than minimum wages to learn the skill. If a 45 years old that speak no English can be in the process of buying their 3rd house after 20 years, no able body has any excuse. That dude still speak zero English, had to paid him 50k to fix my place up 2 weeks ago.

Even if you are making minimum wage, most people ignore the benefits you get, food stamp, rent assistance, child credit, Obamacare, ssi, reduced utilities bill, free home weathering (insulation/central heating/toilet seat/shower head), a few years ago there’s even free full solar panel, 15k credit (not including the current federal credit) for electric car by trading in any junk car, free bus pass, free driver that take you to doctor appointments, etc. the food stamp as a family of 4 is impossible to use up if you cook at home, most people use those remaining funds for lobster or other expensive food at the end of the month. My family got so much free vitamin supplements and medicines we used to bring those back to China for relatives.

I know because I grow up in low income family. When I finally entered university, I received a “bill” from the state, and it say negative $2.5k per quarter, I thought I need to find a job to pay for that. Ended up that’s the extra money left from my financial aides that I can use for anything. Keep in mind I had 2.4 gpa and zero scholarships. I eventually have to pay it all back from paying taxes, but no regrets. The social mobility is fucking op in America. If you doubt what I said, go to your local food bank, you can walk out with a week worth of grocery without any questions.

There’s a reason why we have a labor shortage, and need undocumented immigrants for low end jobs; because no one with the right mind would do those jobs unless it pay more than their benefits, or they willing to pay you under the table. Most people only have incentive to work for social security credit. The only thing minimum wage increase is cost of living, people on assistance will get inflation adjustment; but middle class will get slaughter since they will never get the same increase.

If you worry about poor people in America, don’t, they are eating good; unless they are addicted to something. Millions of migrants come here for a reason, and the main reason is definitely not “freedom” or “democracy”.

Agreed.

People have to accept some people have more, some people have less, and if you have less it doesn't necessarily mean you are entitled to get enough to own a home and car and raise a family. That's why as i said in a post yesterday, when these kinds of threads pop up about earning power and how much should a fast food dude get paid if minimum wage isn't enough, nobody in support of higher wages even wants to state want they think is a deserved wage and how big of a home or car should they get. It's always vague because if they say $50k or $60k, they know anyone working a higher skilled job that pays that will say fuck off and go back to making $12/hr. So it's not just stereotypical rich guys who think they deserve less or simply get paid what the market offer is. It's also middle income earners. But they dont want to rattle that part of society too having them on the same side as the richer people.

You can tell a lot of people are looking for free money. Just look at how much support Andrew Yang got at the last presidential debate. He made it to the final 4 I think and all his platform was every second you see him on stage (despite him claiming there's more to his policies than promoted) is giving every person $1000/mth forever and you could literally sit home and do nothing. And makes sense. Hourly wages were lower, and that $1000/mth for some people is practically the same as working. and you dont have to wake up in the morning, work, and spend money on lunch or gas or bus tickets.

As for your family situation, mine is probably worse. After WWII settled, my parents somehow got their asses over to Canada, knew zero English, half the family tree is dead (some by suicide because they felt the fam tree crumbled and they were failures). All my parent's parents (my grandparents) were killed/suicide. So I knew zero grandparents growing up. Crazy. But it happens. All I know know is some black and white photos in the den my parents hung. That's it. I only knew one great grandparent and she didn't even know eglish so I couldnt even speak to her unless my parents translated. All I could do is say Hi, bye and smile as that's universal. Well, they learned English at some point, are bilingual, heck my mom even has that typical nice looking women's cursive writing. Dad was a waiter in the day and did night class for like 8 years to get a degree. I dont think he graduated until he was around 30 when the norm is a kid does college or university by the time they are about 22.They didn't afford to buy their first car till they were around 36 year old. When I was born, the fam was already on the right track living in a semi-detached bungalow and around that time is when they got the new car too. But before that, they and my older siblings were the bus stop gang you blow by in your car on rainy days for probably 15 years.

Just because someone grows up poor with a crap job doesn't mean they are destined to be like that forever. And I never heard my parents nag about their old life about bad jobs, cheap gov or companies etc.... They just accepted what is given and did the traditional route a lot of old timers did. You got a crappy starting hand and you move on up on your own. And then when you got kids, you point them in the right direction from lessons learned from their shitty experiences growing up.

 

[MayauMiao]

$20/h but do they still need tip?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

People have to accept some people have more, some people have less

We do. That's not a defense for america to have the lowest lows and the highest highs.

You can't even legalise sick days without corps getting in the way for fuck sake. It's embarrassing

 

[Haemi]

My opinion: Instead of a minimum wage, the CEO salary should be bound to the salary of the lowest payed employee of the company. Like for example 20x. And that worldwide. Also a worldwide ban on share dividends.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

My opinion: Instead of a minimum wage, the CEO salary should be bound to the salary of the lowest payed employee of the company. Like for example 20x. And that worldwide. Also a worldwide ban on share dividends.

That makes zero sense.

So when Bill Gates was CEO (he cofounded MS with Paul Allen), Bill and Paul's max comp would be let's say 20x the head office cafeteria worker (assuming those people are the worst paid). So if they made $10/hr, Bill and Paul can make a max of $200/hr which is $400,000 per year?

Also, which lowest wage employee are we talking about? Let's say there's an MS employee working in Bangledesh making $5/hr taking out garbage bins, is his wage the one to peg against? Or lets say someone in switzerland office's lowest pay is $15/hr, use that person's?

Why would dividends be banned? That's part of owning a company, which any shareholder can be part of. The way shareholders make money is often dividends because how else are they going to make money off the company? Go in and steal company laptops as payment? It's not only execs who have shares and dividends. Anyone who invests a dime into stocks or retirement funds has skin the game when it comes dividends.

What you want is for any person making good money or has stocks to lose it all and dumb down to the bottom rung of the ladder. No thanks.

 

[jason10mm]

I worked in the kitchen at both Shoney's and Red Lobster... The crap you have to deal with is insane in the lobby. Even in the South.

You still know how to make them cheddar biscuits???

 

[DeafTourette]

You still know how to make them cheddar biscuits???

Unfortunately, SoB just said my skills are useless so I made my last batch last night.

 

[jason10mm]

Unfortunately, SoB just said my skills are useless so I made my last batch last night.

I'll pay you $20!!!!!

Ok, ok, 19.95 so my argument will still stand

 

[DeafTourette]

I'll pay you $20!!!!!

Ok, ok, 19.95 so my argument will still stand

Next time you come to Atlanta, I got you... though I'll probably just buy some at RL. LOL!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I was a waiter and cook all throughout high school and college. The shit hospitality people have to put up with is insane.

I worked in the kitchen at both Shoney's and Red Lobster... The crap you have to deal with is insane in the lobby. Even in the South.

In high school, I was a waiter too. Was fine. I guess the place I worked at wasnt filled with weird customers. But before that, I was a busboy there. For anyone complaining about being a waiter, you havent seen anything. Dedicated busboy job (I dont think a lot of restaurants have them anymore) is bottom of the barrel. Clean tables, clean spills on the floor, take out the garbage etc.... And at the end of the shift you'll be lucky to get $10 tip which the waiters controlled in their tip can (that was back in the day when a lot of people paid cash and that can had a lot money in it end of night). The waiters did all the easy stuff like smiley faces while taking orders and doing the bill. And if the kitchen was jammed busy and I needed cutlery or plates or coffee mugs asap, I had to act as dishwasher if the kitchen washers couldnt keep up.

For those of you who never worked been in a restaurant kitchen, you know what smells terrible? Garbage? Yes. The big metal garbage bin in the back? Yes. But arguably worst of all.... the big dishwasher section which has tons of gross plates, food and hot steamy water blasting out. Food is mashed up and on the wet floor and if you get near that part of the kitchen, you come out smelling like steamed clam smelling like rotten food.

 

[BadBurger]

Back to the $20 figure, it's really not much. Many of these restaurants, especially the fast food places, pull in thousands of dollars in profit a week. When I was in college I worked at a Philly steak joint in a mall working the grill, and the revenue was like $1,500 a day. Slow days were like $800. The rent or whatever was like $4,000 a month, we were paid like $10 an hour (always only two of us working), so they were obviously making a ton of money.

In high school, I was a waiter too. Was fine. I guess the place I worked at wasnt filled with weird customers. But before that, I was a busboy there. For anyone complaining about being a waiter, you havent seen anything. Dedicated busboy job (I dont think a lot of restaurants have them anymore) is bottom of the barrel. Clean tables, clean spills on the floor, take out the garbage etc.... And at the end of the shift you'll be lucky to get $10 tip which the waiters controlled in their tip can (that was back in the day when a lot of people paid cash and that can had a lot money in it end of night). The waiters did all the easy stuff like smiley faces while taking orders and doing the bill. And if the kitchen was jammed busy and I needed cutlery or plates or coffee mugs asap, I had to act as dishwasher if the kitchen washers couldnt keep up.

For those of you who never worked been in a restaurant kitchen, you know what smells terrible? Garbage? Yes. The big metal garbage bin in the back? Yes. But arguably worst of all.... the big dishwasher section which has tons of gross plates, food and hot steamy water blasting out. Food is mashed up and on the wet floor and if you get near that part of the kitchen, you come out smelling like steamed clam smelling like rotten food.

That sucks. We always treated our busboys well at my sister's restaurant. I would personally turn over half of my tips to them, because without them we could not turnover tables at a rate that would be profitable.

 

[jason10mm]

Back to the $20 figure, it's really not much. Many of these restaurants, especially the fast food places, pull in thousands of dollars in profit a week. When I was in college I worked at a Philly steak joint in a mall working the grill, and the revenue was like $1,500 a day. Slow days were like $800. The rent or whatever was like $4,000 a month, we were paid like $10 an hour (always only two of us working), so they were obviously making a ton of money.

So I take it you now own 20 similar mall food places and are pulling in MILLIONS a year whilst paying $30/hr since you know the business so well?

 

[DeafTourette]

In high school, I was a waiter too. Was fine. I guess the place I worked at wasnt filled with weird customers. But before that, I was a busboy there. For anyone complaining about being a waiter, you havent seen anything. Dedicated busboy job (I dont think a lot of restaurants have them anymore) is bottom of the barrel. Clean tables, clean spills on the floor, take out the garbage etc.... And at the end of the shift you'll be lucky to get $10 tip which the waiters controlled in their tip can (that was back in the day when a lot of people paid cash and that can had a lot money in it end of night). The waiters did all the easy stuff like smiley faces while taking orders and doing the bill. And if the kitchen was jammed busy and I needed cutlery or plates or coffee mugs asap, I had to act as dishwasher if the kitchen washers couldnt keep up.

For those of you who never worked been in a restaurant kitchen, you know what smells terrible? Garbage? Yes. The big metal garbage bin in the back? Yes. But arguably worst of all.... the big dishwasher section which has tons of gross plates, food and hot steamy water blasting out. Food is mashed up and on the wet floor and if you get near that part of the kitchen, you come out smelling like steamed clam smelling like rotten food.

I worked kitchen, dishes and occasionally bus boy at Shoney's. Did they not give you an apron? They gave us disposable aprons. Yes, dishes is probably the hardest PHYSICAL job in a restaurant... because you don't get any rest until your break. It wasn't too different from washing dishes at home. Rinse first with a high pressure hose, then put them in a HOT WATER DISHWASHER, then stack. There's just no let up between what the wait staff or busboys bring back. I had to Try remembering music in my head to pass time while relentlessly washing.

Waiters and Waitresses have the hardest MENTAL/EMOTIONAL job because the customers can sometimes (per day) be exhausting... some can be threatening, dramatic, etc. You have to keep your emotions in check MORE than normal because of how the customers can act... or you have to fear for your safety on those times when someone gets over-emotional over some small thing that wasn't even the wait staff's fault.

And yes, trash smells. So?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I worked kitchen, dishes and occasionally bus boy at Shoney's. Did they not give you an apron? They gave us disposable aprons. Yes, dishes is probably the hardest PHYSICAL job in a restaurant... because you don't get any rest until your break. It wasn't too different from washing dishes at home. Rinse first with a high pressure hose, then put them in a HOT WATER DISHWASHER, then stack. There's just no let up between what the wait staff or busboys bring back. I had to Try remembering music in my head to pass time while relentlessly washing.

Waiters and Waitresses have the hardest MENTAL/EMOTIONAL job because the customers can sometimes (per day) be exhausting... some can be threatening, dramatic, etc. You have to keep your emotions in check MORE than normal because of how the customers can act... or you have to fear for your safety on those times when someone gets over-emotional over some small thing that wasn't even the wait staff's fault.

And yes, trash smells. So?

No apron if I had to pinch hit washing some stuff I need for my station. The dedicated dishwashers had them though. So sometimes my white shirt I wore would get splashed with water or bits of food.

Another thing I remember which took forever. Drying the cutlery. The dishwashers would wash big racks of them at once. They'd hose them off first and then put it through a machine. And it came out wet. Then they dumped them into a big plastic tray. Thats how that place did it. Maybe other places had big dryer machines. But worst of all sometimes food was stuck in the piles of cutlery. Drying cutlery was a bad task. Doing it was easy. But it took a lot of time to sit there at a counter and dry off with rags 100s of pieces before I could restock the stations. Big time killer. So by the time I get back, other tasks would pile up.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Burger flipping used to be for teens and college students, it sucks that some adults are forced to do that for a living; but there should be some personal responsibility.

What do you mean used to be for teens and college students? Who is gonna serve breakfast, lunch and 24/7?

The employee makeup was ALWAYS in the entire history of service work, a couple of teenagers and the rest were adults and elderly people. There are labor shortages in these service jobs that don't pay living wages, and somehow someway teenagers and college students aren't able to keep them afloat. But adults are. If you are putting in 40 hours a week at a job, you need to be paid a living wage. "A living wage" is far from average living.

 

[Jsisto]

So I walked in to work today to find I and everyone else got a 2 dollar raise. I’m a grocery store manager in NJ and I work for a California based company so I imagine they did this to be competitive. So needless to say I support this now.

 

[Durien]

Here is the thing people are missing though. If you raise the minimum wage to X, what if X is what your were paying managers. Now you need to raise their pay too. Money needs to come from somewhere and the cost is always passed on to the consumer or you layoff people to make up costs. (Most likely both)

 

[bigedole]

We do. That's not a defense for america to have the lowest lows and the highest highs.

Trying to figure out if you really believe this, that America has the lowest lows. You majorly need a healthy dose of perspective if so.

 

[BadBurger]

Here is the thing people are missing though. If you raise the minimum wage to X, what if X is what your were paying managers. Now you need to raise their pay too. Money needs to come from somewhere and the cost is always passed on to the consumer or you layoff people to make up costs. (Most likely both)

Managers in these hospitality jobs are typically the only ones well paid. They get large bonuses. It seems like much of the budget for places go to them and the head chef.

So they don't need a raise IMO.

It's weird that the rest of the world has figured this out and yet the USA is bickering about one state paying a decent wage.

 

[Blade2.0]

Burger flipping used to be for teens and college students, it sucks that some adults are forced to do that for a living; but there should be some personal responsibility.

A lot of Chinese migrant take up odd jobs like unlicensed plumbing, electrician, home repair/renovation, requires no degree or even English speaking skill, easily making 400k a year. The hard part is learning the trade, and you have to work several years for less than minimum wages to learn the skill. If a 45 years old that speak no English can be in the process of buying their 3rd house after 20 years, no able body has any excuse. That dude still speak zero English, had to paid him 50k to fix my place up 2 weeks ago.

Even if you are making minimum wage, most people ignore the benefits you get, food stamp, rent assistance, child credit, Obamacare, ssi, reduced utilities bill, free home weathering (insulation/central heating/toilet seat/shower head), a few years ago there’s even free full solar panel, 15k credit (not including the current federal credit) for electric car by trading in any junk car, free bus pass, free driver that take you to doctor appointments, etc. the food stamp as a family of 4 is impossible to use up if you cook at home, most people use those remaining funds for lobster or other expensive food at the end of the month. My family got so much free vitamin supplements and medicines we used to bring those back to China for relatives.

I know because I grow up in low income family. When I finally entered university, I received a “bill” from the state, and it say negative $2.5k per quarter, I thought I need to find a job to pay for that. Ended up that’s the extra money left from my financial aides that I can use for anything. Keep in mind I had 2.4 gpa and zero scholarships. I eventually have to pay it all back from paying taxes, but no regrets. The social mobility is fucking op in America. If you doubt what I said, go to your local food bank, you can walk out with a week worth of grocery without any questions.

There’s a reason why we have a labor shortage, and need undocumented immigrants for low end jobs; because no one with the right mind would do those jobs unless it pay more than their benefits, or they willing to pay you under the table. Most people only have incentive to work for social security credit. The only thing minimum wage increase is cost of living, people on assistance will get inflation adjustment; but middle class will get slaughter since they will never get the same increase.

If you worry about poor people in America, don’t, they are eating good; unless they are addicted to something. Millions of migrants come here for a reason, and the main reason is definitely not “freedom” or “democracy”.

You still have to survive while you're learning. Whatever job you do while learning those trades should pay enough to live off of.

How do you expect McDonald's employees to better themselves while they're cold and hungry living in a box on the streets? Minimum wage is just that, the minimum for a standard way of life, anything above that is luxury. No one is saying you can't be better off than the person across the street. You just can't be better off than billions while they starve. It's a very simple concept.

 

[Blade2.0]

That makes zero sense.

It actually makes a lot of sense. If the boss wants more, they have to raise the lowest people's wages, meaning they never get left behind.

How little are you allowed to pay someone before it's slavery? I just want to know, do you think people should be able to own one another? If the answer is no, then there is pay that's too low, even for you. Shouldn't that amount be the minimum anyone is allowed to receive? I'd say, that if you pay someone so low, there's no way for them to ever come out ahead or there's no way for them to leave the job they have, that's slavery. And we shouldn't be allowing that. We have systems in place to allow someone to get away from an abusive spouse because they don't have the capital to do it on their own. Society should have the same things for abusive employers.

 

[Blade2.0]

Here is the thing people are missing though. If you raise the minimum wage to X, what if X is what your were paying managers. Now you need to raise their pay too. Money needs to come from somewhere and the cost is always passed on to the consumer or you layoff people to make up costs. (Most likely both)

It doesn't have to be passed to consumers if we had regulations against it. Productivity has outpaced wages for 40 years. Everyone deserves more. There's only more millionaires and billionaires because they are hoarding all the wealth. Wealth they didn't singlehandedly create. They do not deserve to have it all while the working class has nothing.

 

[jason10mm]

It actually makes a lot of sense. If the boss wants more, they have to raise the lowest people's wages, meaning they never get left behind.

How little are you allowed to pay someone before it's slavery? I just want to know, do you think people should be able to own one another? If the answer is no, then there is pay that's too low, even for you. Shouldn't that amount be the minimum anyone is allowed to receive? I'd say, that if you pay someone so low, there's no way for them to ever come out ahead or there's no way for them to leave the job they have, that's slavery. And we shouldn't be allowing that. We have systems in place to allow someone to get away from an abusive spouse because they don't have the capital to do it on their own. Society should have the same things for abusive employers.

I think you need to review the definition of slavery. In America there is NO ONE being FORCED to work for any wage that would constitute slavery. Anyone can walk away from a job, move to a different part of the country, and there are massive amounts of regulations protecting employees from employer abuse. Ya'll little socialists need to back up a bit and get some perspective. The ability to research your worth, move between jobs, improve yourself with virtually no cost, and in general TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE has never been greater. If someone is "slaving" away at some dead end job for pennies they really have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Blade2.0]

I think you need to review the definition of slavery. In America there is NO ONE being FORCED to work for any wage that would constitute slavery. Anyone can walk away from a job, move to a different part of the country, and there are massive amounts of regulations protecting employees from employer abuse. Ya'll little socialists need to back up a bit and get some perspective. The ability to research your worth, move between jobs, improve yourself with virtually no cost, and in general TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE has never been greater. If someone is "slaving" away at some dead end job for pennies they really have no one to blame but themselves.

No not just anyone can quit and move. It costs money to move. Money poor people don't have. Because billionaires have dried up all the wealth.

 

[DeafTourette]

I think you need to review the definition of slavery. In America there is NO ONE being FORCED to work for any wage that would constitute slavery. Anyone can walk away from a job, move to a different part of the country, and there are massive amounts of regulations protecting employees from employer abuse. Ya'll little socialists need to back up a bit and get some perspective. The ability to research your worth, move between jobs, improve yourself with virtually no cost, and in general TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE has never been greater. If someone is "slaving" away at some dead end job for pennies they really have no one to blame but themselves.

I can't pick up and move cross country just like that. I'd have to go cross country to find a job (if I can't have a remote job) and then find a place in my price range ... Which would be hard as I've been trying since AUG of last year looking for one ... Most people live paycheck to paycheck because they don't earn enough to save. Everything goes to rent, bills, food, gas/pub transpo, insurance, healthcare (if possible), kids (if you have them)... All of that will take ALL your money and some you don't have ... If I had my old job still, where I live now (which isn't an apt or loft... Renting a room), I'd be living below my means and could then save... Now I have no job, have to move out STILL looking for a job... No, "anyone" can't just pick up and move cross country to find a better job lickety split. Most people I know can't and they have jobs that paid more than my old one did.

 

[Haemi]

That makes zero sense.

Just think a little harder. It is maybe not flawless, but it's more than "zero sense".

So when Bill Gates was CEO (he cofounded MS with Paul Allen), Bill and Paul's max comp would be let's say 20x the head office cafeteria worker (assuming those people are the worst paid). So if they made $10/hr, Bill and Paul can make a max of $200/hr which is $400,000 per year?

See you got it. And when the cafeteria worker can afford rent, a car, food, insurance etc. and some money extra for bad times or to have a little fun, then the CEO can afford to pay rent for an apartment that costs 20x as much. Buy a car that costs 20x as much. Eat 20x times more or buy luxury food and have 20x more fun than the cafeteria worker. Sounds amazing!

Also, which lowest wage employee are we talking about? Let's say there's an MS employee working in Bangledesh making $5/hr taking out garbage bins, is his wage the one to peg against? Or lets say someone in switzerland office's lowest pay is $15/hr, use that person's?

Is this OK? => CEO pay = 20 * lowest payed workers wage * (cost of living country of CEO / cost of living country employee)

Why would dividends be banned? That's part of owning a company, which any shareholder can be part of. The way shareholders make money is often dividends because how else are they going to make money off the company? Go in and steal company laptops as payment? It's not only execs who have shares and dividends. Anyone who invests a dime into stocks or retirement funds has skin the game when it comes dividends.

What you want is for any person making good money or has stocks to lose it all and dumb down to the bottom rung of the ladder. No thanks.

Getting more money for having money? No thanks. Stupid positive feedback loop. The whole stock market/shareholder stuff is mostly used as legalized gambling. You can still gamble by buying and selling your shares, but no dividends. Also no buybacks. Ban them too.

And since there are no dividends/buybacks and the CEOs salary is limited, the companies earned money can be invested in the company. Grow the business or pay your workers a bonus. And the CEO gets 20x the bonus. Amazing!

What is your definition of "good money"? for me it is what i mentioned above: "afford rent, a car, food, insurance etc. and some money extra for bad times or to have a little fun."

I'm just proposing a soft cap on the income of the tip of the pyramide. When the gap between rich and poor is growing then you have to tie both sides together.

I think you need to review the definition of slavery. In America there is NO ONE being FORCED to work for any wage that would constitute slavery. Anyone can walk away from a job, move to a different part of the country, and there are massive amounts of regulations protecting employees from employer abuse. Ya'll little socialists need to back up a bit and get some perspective. The ability to research your worth, move between jobs, improve yourself with virtually no cost, and in general TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE has never been greater. If someone is "slaving" away at some dead end job for pennies they really have no one to blame but themselves.

This only works for jobs that need more than a month of training and when there are more jobs than people. Otherwise someone will always be the looser who has to take the bad payed job. And the US employee protecting regulations are a joke compared to some other (wealthy) countries.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Again, if you were in California Chick Fil A and In and Out were paying 20/17 respectively since at least 2017/2018 and prices were the exact same till inflation hit.

My local Chick-fil-A (San Diego) was advertising $18 (or maybe it was $17) starting wages on a sign just a week or two ago. But yeah they paid higher than average fast food wages by a decent bit. Result? They generally had a stable of well-trained friendly employees, and shit employees didn't last very long...

I'm just not seeing it, prices are going up, that's bad and already proven. With prices going up, sales will go down. Sales going down means fewer hours of work to go around, therefore lower employment. So I don't even think that it's ultimately a benefit for the fast food worker. Just seems like naive market manipulation that will fuck up the whole industry

This is also a bullshit take. There are plenty of jobs that need highly skilled people that pay dogshit. EMTs are the first that come to mind when I see this take. EMTs are some of the most skilled people working a hard job, both physically and mentally, and they get paid garbage wages. The fact of the matter is this: If you need a worker to do a job, they have to make enough to survive to do your fucking job. And if the American way of life would die if we paid people a livable wage, then the American way of life should die.

I mean, all a $20 fast food specific min wage does is raise the prices of the junk food on an EMT's break so as someone concerned about the welfare of EMTs you should be against this particular law. I don't support a $20 minimum wage in any context but if you offered me the choice I'd give it to the EMTs way before fast food.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I mean, all a $20 fast food specific min wage does is raise the prices of the junk food on an EMT's break so as someone concerned about the welfare of EMTs you should be against this particular law. I don't support a $20 minimum wage in any context but if you offered me the choice I'd give it to the EMTs way before fast food.

Well, quite, won't someone think of the EMT's, the teachers, etc.

Basically any profession that we consider essential until we think about their wages. At that point their job becomes a calling, a passion, a vocation.

Maybe it'd be better to give a payrise to them too.

There's enough money. It's just that most of it is in the hands of a tiny number of people.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Think one of the bigger issues is the declining purchasing power across the world for normal people and lack of affordable housing.

If a base wage, whether thats $5 per hour or $25 per hour still had the same purchasing power my parents had in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, then you wouldn't see this push for drastically higher salaries every year.

Being able to accrue capital and have a clear path to acquiring critical assets like property is what we need to figure out asap. It's a shit show across the richest countries. Affordable homes simply aren't affordable and rents are skyrocketing to stupid levels. Too much demand for housing.... not enough supply.

Also being able to provide your citizens and businesses with cheap energy is more important than our current leaders seem to realise.

Our economies aren't growing as they should so you can only increase wages so much before a lot of businesses and jobs begin to disappear, but as a whole $20p/h will provide some short term relief to people who are struggling at the bottom end, but it's not the long term fix I think. Hope I'm wrong.

Trying to figure out if you really believe this, that America has the lowest lows. You majorly need a healthy dose of perspective if so.

I largely agree with you. But just using life expectancy as a metric it's very low in the US for a developed country at around 76.3 years, when it really shouldn't be considering the amount of wealth in that country and being the worlds largest/richest economy.

• In the context of the world it ranks about 55th place for life expectancy.
• In the context of the G20 countries it ranks 11/20.
• In the context of the G10 it ranks last place at 10/10, then you have the UK at 9th place but the LE is still 4-5 years higher at 80.7.
• In the context of the G7 it ranks last at 7/7. Japan at 1st place with 85.5 years and rising.

There are other metrics to consider but I think LE is an important one in terms of some trying to form a picture of overall quality of life. If you take out the LE of the wealthiest in the US which must distort the average a lot then the LE of the poorest must be a lot lower than 76.3, which is kinda terrible. So I think amongst the richest countries the poor in the US do have some of the lowest lows.

 

[ResilientBanana]

well here comes the robots. California made it too easy for fast food to start implementing robots. They better start pushing for robot/human worker ratios.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

well here comes the robots. California made it too easy for fast food to start implementing robots. They better start pushing for robot/human worker ratios.

Yup.

History has shown that min wages are set low by the gov, so it proves even they dont care about higher wages. And even if they do increase wages, it takes forever in small increments. And when there's too much money floating around in the economy prices go higher and higher anyway. That's why that strive for $15 years back means nothing now. I knew $15 would mean nothing when prices shot up. Its basic economics.

Given that, what people need to do is stop complaining because this is the situation and it's not going to be changing at all (or much) for the decades. So you can either keep complaining, or change, or move. You dont even have to move to another country. Just move to a smaller town or cheaper state where a home or rent is half price. Is it an effort to change? Yup. But sometimes you got to do it like anyone else putting in effort in life to do better. You cant just sit there and demand..... I want more money. Guess what? I want more money too. Everyone does.

If I go to my boss and want a raise, the first thing he'll say is why. The second is how much? The third is prove to me why we should give it to you.

If my answers are: I want aa raise because I deserve it, I dont know how much I want, and I cant prove to them I'm worth it, they'll say no. If the boss and HR agree I'm worth it, I get it. If not, I get nothing. And outside of the discussion there's always a chance i get replaced anyway by someone cheaper and better.

That's how life works. A lot of it can be solved if many of them got off their ass, got a decent education leading to a decent job. Dont blame others for your situation. Nobody is born and destined to be a fry cook from birth.

 

[SoloCamo]

Ya'll little socialists need to back up a bit and get some perspective. The ability to research your worth, move between jobs, improve yourself with virtually no cost, and in general TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR LIFE has never been greater.

About the furthest thing from it as I'd much prefer a barely existent government than the intrusive one we have now. That said, you are smoking the good stuff if you think it's the easiest time in this country to change your life. The job market is ridiculously competitive, prices are through the roof, requirements for jobs are higher than ever, etc.

My GF and I make well enough above the average income in my area and are facing yet another rent increase (as they do yearly) and barely make ends meet. No kids, no vacationing, at most we eat out here and there. Cars are paid off, and yet we cannot simply just move to another area because we really can't afford to. And the places we can afford to move have worse paying jobs in worse markets so how is that beneficial?

"Just improve your life"... sure. Both of us have had long careers in areas that require degrees or certs and I'm not even in a major city (though it might as well be now with all the people fleeing Cali and the Northeast to come ruin it here in FL).

I'm not asking for handouts but don't act for one moment that the economy and living situation isn't a shit show at the moment and it's not easy to improve when you are barely able to put food on the table. When you are middle class you get crapped on from both ends. With inflation what I make now is less than what I made years ago, despite raises.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

About the furthest thing from it as I'd much prefer a barely existent government than the intrusive one we have now. That said, you are smoking the good stuff if you think it's the easiest time in this country to change your life. The job market is ridiculously competitive, prices are through the roof, requirements for jobs are higher than ever, etc.

My GF and I make well enough above the average income in my area and are facing yet another rent increase (as they do yearly) and barely make ends meet. No kids, no vacationing, at most we eat out here and there. Cars are paid off, and yet we cannot simply just move to another area because we really can't afford to. And the places we can afford to move have worse paying jobs in worse markets so how is that beneficial?

"Just improve your life"... sure. Both of us have had long careers in areas that require degrees or certs and I'm not even in a major city (though it might as well be now with all the people fleeing Cali and the Northeast to come ruin it here in FL).

I'm not asking for handouts but don't act for one moment that the economy and living situation isn't a shit show at the moment and it's not easy to improve when you are barely able to put food on the table. When you are middle class you get crapped on from both ends. With inflation what I make now is less than what I made years ago, despite raises.

It’s not like the world is skewed to everyone working in expensive metro areas.

Even just looking at USA only, there’s tons of people who work in lower cost towns who have jobs. It’s not like some stereotypical thing where every small town USA guy is an unemployed hick like in the movie Deliverance.

It all comes down to if someone wants to live in a more modest place that will skew to cheap cost of living and jobs, or amp it up and live and compete with everyone else in metro areas which will have a roller coaster of good jobs, bad jobs and tons of people. The common thing is cost of living will be much higher.

In other GAF threads about money and cost of living there’s gaffers posting pics of homes in their area (or even their own home) which look nice and would be like $500,000. Sounds crazy because in my area $500,000 gets you a modest 1 bedroom condo if you’re lucky. But if some towns have nice homes for half a million sounds like a good deal to me. Somehow they can figure out how to get job and can pay for it.

Moving to a small town will likely pay you less but the cost of living can drop so much that end of day you’re a winner in the income to cost ratio game.

If you and your SO are making above the avg pay and still renting then either you guys can’t budget enough to make a down payment in a condo or are aiming to high. Typically the smallest cheapest place to buy in any town is an existing modest condo. If you guys cant afford that I don’t know what to tell you since I don’t know your exact financial situation. But I’m hoping you aren’t trying to hop th e fence aiming for a big home with a two car garage and big yard.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I'm not exactly old, but I have lived long enough to see the tears of blood cried by those who have no skin in the game when minimum wage is raised. Every single time it happens you get people who cry, bitch, and moan that these bottom level employees are finally making something that is worth a damn. Yet I never see people pop in to these discussions and threads regarding these new pay raises with the idea that executives and companies should lower their profit margins in order to compensate.



It is always and inevitably. "Oh well they will just raise prices now for everyone! Good job *insert*!"



Executives and upper level staff should take pay cuts before the customers bear the brunt of pay raises for the bottom level employees. It is absolutely fucking bullshit that prices get raised for the average customer when these kinds of changes happen. Meanwhile, the executives continue to make money to afford their second yacht and their third fucking home.



The problem here is not the bottom level employees making an amount per hour that actually sustains themselves. The problem is the executives and the other higher ups on the ladder making far more than they fucking should relative to what they do in spite of rises in costs elsewhere.

Not to mention there's another class above the C-Suites folks.

Low level workers are to C-Suiters as C-Suiters are to billionaire investors. CEOs are like...attainably wealthy. If you or I work hard enough and play the game right, we could get to that level. Not so much the case with the true ruling class.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm not exactly old, but I have lived long enough to see the tears of blood cried by those who have no skin in the game when minimum wage is raised. Every single time it happens you get people who cry, bitch, and moan that these bottom level employees are finally making something that is worth a damn. Yet I never see people pop in to these discussions and threads regarding these new pay raises with the idea that executives and companies should lower their profit margins in order to compensate.



It is always and inevitably. "Oh well they will just raise prices now for everyone! Good job *insert*!"



Executives and upper level staff should take pay cuts before the customers bear the brunt of pay raises for the bottom level employees. It is absolutely fucking bullshit that prices get raised for the average customer when these kinds of changes happen. Meanwhile, the executives continue to make money to afford their second yacht and their third fucking home.



The problem here is not the bottom level employees making an amount per hour that actually sustains themselves. The problem is the executives and the other higher ups on the ladder making far more than they fucking should relative to what they do in spite of rises in costs elsewhere.

A lot of the big wig CEO pay isn’t even straight salary. It’s stock options. When stocks go up they are worth a ton and they make bank. And so does everyone else who has shares. When the stock tanks the value drops or might even be worth $0 if they don’t hit the strike price.

Regardless I agree that whether it’s straight salary or including options and golden parachutes, that CEOs and VPs make tons of comp.

But that’s life and it’s not changing anytime soon. So best way to fight it is do better and don’t rely on a burger job.

Problem is there’s too many unskilled people flooding mcdoanlds for jobs so of course they can offer low wages. Most jobs aren’t like that. Why does every company off me a good salary and bonus instead of hiring 3 cheaper people? Or hire one cheapie and bank the rest. Not just me but my entire floor of coworkers who all make probably $70,000 minimum even if you are an assistant marketing manager or junior analyst out or school? Because the company deems there’s decent value there to offer.

For low end jobs to pay better what is needed is for tons of unskilled people to leave so that everyone else gets a pay boost.

Let’s not pretend that just because a state or province sets a minimum wage that everyone even makes that. Most are making more than that to begin with.

Never the less I’ll give you a good example of wages propping up without government intervention. Back in the oil craze in the 2000s oil companies were hiring so many people all the fast food and coffee shops were short people as they couldn’t service the people coming in. We’re talking 15 or so years ago. Tim Hortons was offering $20/hr. A job that involves making coffee, dishing out bagels and donuts and making ham and Swiss sandwiches. Reason is because of supply and demand of workers because it was hard to find food joint workers in Alberta oil field regions.

This could happen too anywhere. Problem is you got too many people fighting for low end jobs with marginal to zero skills all fighting for fast food and shopping mall jobs.and hiring students will accept these jobs for sake of experience and cash will always happen because most of these jobs can be done by a one armed monkey. So it shows a burger manager would rather have transient high schoolers working there than picking someone looking to work there for 10 years for higher pay. Well, chances are the student will do just as good of a job so might as well pay him cheaper.

Prove your worth keeping around and you’ll get paid more. Here’s another example. My company used to hire university students for around $20/hr to do basic tasks. It was one of those things they come and go during their coop term. First cheap wages. We scrapped that as all the managers found it a waste of time for them all to disappear after 4 months and start over with more temp students. So now the company only hires permanent low level people at around $70,000 ($35/hr equivalent) because despite being higher wages it’s worth it as that perm worker sticks around and can do more and improve. So it shows if there is value you’ll get paid more. Burger places blanketing low wages across everyone is due to everyone doing a similar level of performance. I’ve done low end jobs for $6/hr. Give all us summer students a week or two to learn the job and we’re all just as good as the vets being there for years.

As long as they are paying what is legally required, they are good in my book. Don’t blame them. If you want to blame someone blame government for setting min wages in the US where most probably avg out to $11/hr. So as I said a few times in this thread if even government doesn’t care why should any company? Now if the company is illegally underpaying or doing weird shit that’s different. But if they are following the rules that’s legal and fine.

 

[jason10mm]

This only works for jobs that need more than a month of training and when there are more jobs than people. Otherwise someone will always be the looser who has to take the bad payed job. And the US employee protecting regulations are a joke compared to some other (wealthy) countries.

Almost EVERY place I know is STARVING for workers. All you hear is "we can't get anyone to work". At least the medical field, the trades, most restaurants, lots of retail, "help wanted" signs are EVERYWHERE. If you are "slaving" (the word used) at a job somewhere then you really only have yourself to blame for not improving your own lot in life with all the resources out there. I GUARANTEE everyone on this forum has enough junk in their house they could sell to be able to afford a bus ticket to someplace else where there is a job they could have inside of a day. Coordinating it just requires the very computer and internet connection you are using to be here. All that is missing is the WILL to do it.

I worked a kitchen in high school. All I got out of it was a burning desire to NEVER have to do that again and an incredible heat tolerance in my hands that has never really gone away. But those jobs are there, and even if they don't pay well they pay enough for you to get an associate level degree and be a lab tech, pharmacy assistant, or whatever so you can get out of the hole. Will it be a hot hustle for a year or two? Sure, but where was the contract with God/the Universe that you NEVER have to sweat?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Almost EVERY place I know is STARVING for workers. All you hear is "we can't get anyone to work". At least the medical field, the trades, most restaurants, lots of retail, "help wanted" signs are EVERYWHERE. If you are "slaving" (the word used) at a job somewhere then you really only have yourself to blame for not improving your own lot in life with all the resources out there. I GUARANTEE everyone on this forum has enough junk in their house they could sell to be able to afford a bus ticket to someplace else where there is a job they could have inside of a day. Coordinating it just requires the very computer and internet connection you are using to be here. All that is missing is the WILL to do it.

I worked a kitchen in high school. All I got out of it was a burning desire to NEVER have to do that again and an incredible heat tolerance in my hands that has never really gone away. But those jobs are there, and even if they don't pay well they pay enough for you to get an associate level degree and be a lab tech, pharmacy assistant, or whatever so you can get out of the hole. Will it be a hot hustle for a year or two? Sure, but where was the contract with God/the Universe that you NEVER have to sweat?

Yup.

If every shop is so understaffed, they’ll be paying more to keep and hire new people. Let’s not pretend that just because there is a min wage that everyone gets laid min wage.

That would be like saying every real estate agent gets paid $0 every year because they are commission based. So technically you get paid $0 if you selling nothing all year but that doesn’t mean everyone gets paid $0. I don’t see real estate agents complaining.

So the race to the bottom (a term everyone likes using for different things in life) also applies here. The race to the bottom trying to make everyone believe a min wage floor means they get min wage. Not true.

It’s modern world. People are entitled thinking the world owes them something. And since min wages take forever to inch up, complaining about ceo pay, low wages and cost of living aren’t going to do a 180 tomorrow. They won’t do a 180 even in the year 2100.

What we got now is going to be a status quo kind of thing. When all of us on Gaf die, the general sentiment will be the same.

Best way to improve is get off your butt and do something else or move.

It’s like business at work. Some product lines suck for years. The worst thing to do is just keeps doing the same thing. You got to change it up. You don’t rely on gov, stores or customers to suddenly do a 180 for you in hopes they do the legwork for you doubling sales.

At the end of the day, it pretty much comes down to how much in society does everyone from taxpayers paying a lot to companies to government bailing out the people at the bottom. Some countries do more, some do less, some probably nothing.

One thing that you will ALWAYS notice regarding cost of living. People birch and moan about high home prices. But you know what’s funny? The prices are set high because the homeowner doesn’t want to sell for cheap. But you NEVER see anyone rag on the general public for being greedy selling their house for $1.5M. They can’t do that because if they rag on moms and dads owning homes it looks bad and they will tell them to fuck off and they’ll set the price they want. But if it’s a faceless entity like gov or a company they rag on prices or costs or wages.

 

[Puscifer]

My local Chick-fil-A (San Diego) was advertising $18 (or maybe it was $17) starting wages on a sign just a week or two ago. But yeah they paid higher than average fast food wages by a decent bit. Result? They generally had a stable of well-trained friendly employees, and shit employees didn't last very long...

I'm just not seeing it, prices are going up, that's bad and already proven. With prices going up, sales will go down. Sales going down means fewer hours of work to go around, therefore lower employment. So I don't even think that it's ultimately a benefit for the fast food worker. Just seems like naive market manipulation that will fuck up the whole industry


I mean, all a $20 fast food specific min wage does is raise the prices of the junk food on an EMT's break so as someone concerned about the welfare of EMTs you should be against this particular law. I don't support a $20 minimum wage in any context but if you offered me the choice I'd give it to the EMTs way before fast food.

How the fuck am I fake news? I've lived in Sacramento since 2015 and left for New York for a couple years then returned in 2022. Since 2018 depending on the area you were making 18-20 starting (Sac proper 18, suburbs were 20) and the prices saw no real difference till inflation hit like everything else. In fact, I was telling several people that if you really wanted to make more money than "fry chicken at chick fil a" was a regular thing I was saying.

 

[apocaliptic]

Why the OP was banned? You all stop protecting the corporations. Now make it on a federal level. Go in any big city and the majority barely can afford rent let alone other necessities They can't even afford to shower every week looking like homeless. Higher wages should all be welcomed in every workforce.

 

[FalconPunch]

It baffles me that people are still arguing against the raising of minimum wage. It's the same tired argument all the time. People come up spewing billionaire media indoctrination points arguing that it'll increase the cost of goods and services. What they fail to realize is that an increase in cost of living always a precedes the raising of minimum wage. Since the minimum wage hike only occurs after a sharp increase in cost of living, it should never be the focus of the discussion as it's not a problem at all. The focus should be on how we can address the inequitable distribution of resources instead of talking about a minimum wage increase. It's an unnecessary distraction used to keep the masses spinning around the same circle of reasoning in perpetuity.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It baffles me that people are still arguing against the raising of minimum wage. It's the same tired argument all the time. People come up spewing billionaire media indoctrination points arguing that it'll increase the cost of goods and services. What they fail to realize is that an increase in cost of living always a precedes the raising of minimum wage. Since the minimum wage hike only occurs after a sharp increase in cost of living, it should never be the focus of the discussion as it's not a problem at all. The focus should be on how we can address the inequitable distribution of resources instead of talking about a minimum wage increase. It's an unnecessary distraction used to keep the masses spinning around the same circle of reasoning in perpetuity.

The only way more money will be distributed to more people is one of two ways:

1. Government mandates higher min wages (for sake of a talking point in present day let's say all countries or states/provinces set $30/hr minimum)

2. Employers pay people based in a linear way and there's some kind of conversion method. For example, if Bob can make 15 burgers he gets $15/hr. If Sally can prove she can make 20 burgers, she gets $20/hr. If marketing guy X sitting at desk does XXX he gets paid $50/hr, if a baseball player has bad stats he gets paid the league minimum $1M. If a player with allstar stats has 20% better stats, he gets the league minimum +20% ($1.2M) instead of $35 million/yr contract for 8 years. Or as on gaffer replied to me above.... just make CEOs make a max of 20x the base salary as a cap. Save all that money and funnel it to the low paid people.

However, the way the world works is min wages are set low by governments, you got tons of low skilled people all fighting for menial jobs, and employers paying higher wages for any kind of job out there will pay more for higher performance despite it being only one brain in the seat. The problem with shopping mall and fast food jobs is the skills required to do them well can be aped by anyone (even high schoolers working PT) and the value added performance only goes so far so there's no point paying a Big Mac maker $40/hr because even the best burger maker in the world isnt going to be worth keeping for $40 even if he is a bit better than students Sam and Stephanie. In fact, there's probably a 50/50 chance the zit faced kid can make a better burger, so might as well just go with paying people $12/hr.

Sorry low wage earners. But your wage is gimped because high schoolers can do it. And they are applying for those jobs you rely on for a career. Dont blame the gov or business. Blame your skills. Out of all the jobs out there (just think of all the places around your neighbourhood or where you/family/friends work) and how many of them can honestly be done by 15 year old high school kids. Not many. But I know some..... fast food, shopping mall jobs and cashiers. And not surprisingly, they get paid the least.

And no company is ever going to pay based on some kind of linear model or cap. Even the government who sets minimum wage laws doesn't work on that model.

 

[Blade2.0]

It baffles me that people are still arguing against the raising of minimum wage. It's the same tired argument all the time. People come up spewing billionaire media indoctrination points arguing that it'll increase the cost of goods and services. What they fail to realize is that an increase in cost of living always a precedes the raising of minimum wage. Since the minimum wage hike only occurs after a sharp increase in cost of living, it should never be the focus of the discussion as it's not a problem at all. The focus should be on how we can address the inequitable distribution of resources instead of talking about a minimum wage increase. It's an unnecessary distraction used to keep the masses spinning around the same circle of reasoning in perpetuity.

We could increase minimum wage to a livable wage, now, and then tie it to inflation. say, every two years it raises by what inflation was the last two years.

 

[Bojji]

This only works for jobs that need more than a month of training and when there are more jobs than people. Otherwise someone will always be the looser who has to take the bad payed job. And the US employee protecting regulations are a joke compared to some other (wealthy) countries.

Not even wealthy nations, in Poland government mandates pay for sick leave (80% of wage, up to 182 days - first 30 days are paid by employer, rest by government) and 26 days of paid vacations from every employer. When I found out that USA doesn't have this I was... shocked (also, universal health care).

We could increase minimum wage to a livable wage, now, and then tie it to inflation. say, every two years it raises by what inflation was the last two years.

In Poland there is law that when inflation is above 5% minimal wage is increased twice a year (normally they increase it every year once).

 

[DeafTourette]

We could increase minimum wage to a livable wage, now, and then tie it to inflation. say, every two years it raises by what inflation was the last two years.

Wages USED to be tied to inflation... Blame Ford and Reagan.

 

[Durien]

I would also say immigration has a lot to do with it as well. Flipping burgers and washing dishes are not exactly high skill jobs nor do they take a huge knowledge of English. Now I am not saying oh mergerd, they're taking our jobs. I am saying that when hiring people for these positions, they are now getting handed to people who need to support families (hence the rate increase) instead of the high schoolers who are just let me get paid, I need some weed.

 

[Blade2.0]

Wages USED to be tied to inflation... Blame Ford and Reagan.

Reagan destroyed this fucking country.

When I Was Your Age

Despite being more educated and working in a more productive economy, 30-year-olds today barely make more than 30-year-old Baby Boomers did in 1984.

www.americanprogress.org

Smarter, more productive, less well paid. But people act like the younger generation of today are the ones that have it easiest, lol. The older generation, the boomers, had the best lives this country ever offered and then threw it away for everyone coming after them.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I would also say immigration has a lot to do with it as well. Flipping burgers and washing dishes are not exactly high skill jobs nor do they take a huge knowledge of English. Now I am not saying oh mergerd, they're taking our jobs. I am saying that when hiring people for these positions, they are now getting handed to people who need to support families (hence the rate increase) instead of the high schoolers who are just let me get paid, I need some weed.

That too.

Low end jobs are flooded by low skilled people. Doesn't matter if it's high schoolers, college kids, low skilled adults or immigrants needing any job they can get. Thats why the typical burger or shopping mall job doesn't have skilled keeners doing them. They are doing higher paying higher skilled jobs.

Add it up, and all those low end jobs got a gazillion people applying for them. So all the managers have a giant pool of people to pick from and most of them have no problem taking minimum wage.

So really, the fight isnt against gov or business. It's really against the 200 other people applying for any job at McDonalds keeping wages low. I bet the avg McDonalds get more applicants who will take any job they got from cook to cashier to mop and bucket cleaner than your avg blue collar or white collar job paying $50,000. And that $50,000 job will have more applicants than a $100,000 job etc....

However it looks bad if someone with a low end job battles lots of other people fighting for the same job. But it's ok if they blame the company or gov.

For anyone destined to be a low skilled worker, what you really want which would increase wages is less people applying. And that comes from other people amping up with better education and skills so they go after better jobs, and the gov limits all the immigrants coming over who many will go after those jobs as they'll take anything.

Put it this way. If you were in charge of hiring people and two people seem to be decent people with similar skill to do a low end job. One guy is willing to take $10/hr and the other wants $15/hr (and both wages satisfy min wage laws fine), you'd pick the $10/hr worker.

 

[DeafTourette]

Naw...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Reagan destroyed this fucking country.

When I Was Your Age

Despite being more educated and working in a more productive economy, 30-year-olds today barely make more than 30-year-old Baby Boomers did in 1984.

www.americanprogress.org

Smarter, more productive, less well paid. But people act like the younger generation of today are the ones that have it easiest, lol. The older generation, the boomers, had the best lives this country ever offered and then threw it away for everyone coming after them.

And as the link says, too many people fighting for the jobs. As I've said, oversupply of people which kills wages because people will take anything.

Actually, according to the link the bar chart says Gen X'ers are doing the best financially on adjusted pay scales. That includes me. Well, dont blame people in my bracket. Whatever we are doing right being in our 40s must be something right so we are keeping jobs at high pay outpacing boomers and milleaneals.

Also, the article saying a lot of people now have college degrees so they seem perplexed why wages for young people arent higher. Well, duh. That means nothing when you got shit loads of people with degrees. Back to square one. If every person in the US (all 330M of them according to google) had a PhD in neuroscience, guess what? It's not like the avg wage of everyone would jump from $55,000 to $500,000 like a medical brainer would get. It means nothing since that medical field only needs so many people. And by the sounds of it a lot of recent grads funnel to liberal arts junk that gets you nowhere too.