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2012 NBA Finals |OT| Good Job, Good Effort

D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
The team with HCA in 2-3-2 has won 20 out of 27 times.

People whining about the 2-3-2 format being unfair to the Thunder are crazy. There's a slight advantage to having HCA in a 2-3-2 in comparison to the 2-2-1-1-1.

It is really fucking hard to beat a NBA Finals calibur team 3 times in a row. The team with 3 home games in a row has only managed to win all 3 games a grand total of 2 times in 27 years with the format.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
iamshadowlark said:
Say what? He's in the finals for the second time in two years. And this postseason hasn't been particularly kind in regards to curveballs.
Click to expand...

Heat went 7 games against a super old celtics team who went 7 games against a super shitty 8th seed sixers team who almost didn't make the playoffs. OKC/Spurs/Lakers/Mavs/Grizz could have been back to back EC champs, winning the east is nothing to brag about.


Heat being a second round knock out in the West wouldn't be hard to argue.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
Kobe literally has 1 more playoff game winner than Lebron.

the idea of "clutch" is far too predicated on attitude instead of efficiency.
Click to expand...

That's arbitrary. He has a lot more total game winners, and unlike Lebron, he actually has Finals game winners/big finals games.


Efficiency literally doesn't matter in discussing this, people would like you to believe it does, but it doesn't.


It's like saying Rondo is a better scorer than AI because he scores at a higher efficiency.
 
K

kingslunk

Member
gaf heat who thinks this is a free championship win is forgetting about this guy

kevin-durant.jpg
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Vahagn said:
That's arbitrary. He has a lot more total game winners, and unlike Lebron, he actually has Finals game winners/big finals games.
Click to expand...


sorry i miscounted, Kobe has the exact same amount of playoff game winners as Lebron.

Vahagn said:
Efficiency literally doesn't matter in discussing this, people would like you to believe it does, but it doesn't.
Click to expand...

this makes.. no sense.

like, at all.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
sorry i miscounted, Kobe has the exact same amount of playoff game winners as Lebron.



this makes.. no sense.

like, at all.
Click to expand...

except I totally proved why it does with the next sentence


Rondo isn't a better scorer than AI because he scores at a higher efficiency. He's not a better scorer than Kobe, T-Mac, or Deron simply because his FG% is higher
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Vahagn said:
except I totally proved why it does with the next sentence


Rondo isn't a better scorer than AI because he scores at a higher efficiency. He's not a better scorer than Kobe, T-Mac, or Deron simply because his FG% is higher
Click to expand...

wait so now all that matters is how many shots you hit, and to hell with the shots you miss? You proved nothing.

If Rondo hit as many game winners as Kobe on half the shots i'd call him more clutch too. Who's talking about who the better scorer is?
 
V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
wait so now all that matters is how many shots you hit, and to hell with the shots you miss? You proved nothing.
Click to expand...


Jesus are we going around in circles?


Yes, hitting 25 game winners is more impressive than hitting 5 even if you do it less efficiently. Just like scoring 30 is more impressive than scoring 15 even if you do it less efficiently.


Unless you want to tell me that a guy who's 2-4 in the last 24 seconds of a close game in the last 3 years is a better late game clutch option than Kobe/Bron/Wade/Dirk/Deron/CP3 simply because their FG% is lower?


What you're also forgetting btw is that the Lakers routinely have a top 3 record in the league in points decided by 3 or less or overtime games. This year their record was the best. Missing shots doesn't mean shit if you still find a way to win the game.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Vahagn said:
Yes, hitting 25 game winners is more impressive than hitting 5 even if you do it less efficiently. Just like scoring 30 is more impressive than scoring 15 even if you do it less efficiently.
Click to expand...

i literally just said Lebron has the same amount of playoff game winners as Lebron...

and yes if you score 30 points on 25% shooting it sure as hell is less impressive than 15 on 50%
 
V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
i literally just said Lebron has the same amount of playoff game winners as Lebron...
Click to expand...


Kobe has way more total game winners, and actual good Finals games. So stop picking an arbitrary thing and then going with it.


Also, you're full of shit, Lebron hasn't hit a playoff game winner in his time with the Heat. He has less than 5 playoff game winners in his entire Cavs career, so wtf are you talking about.



dIEHARD said:
i literally just said Lebron has the same amount of playoff game winners as Lebron...

and yes if you score 30 points on 25% shooting it sure as hell is less impressive than 15 on 50%
Click to expand...


Nobody in the NBA scores 30 at that type of rate. Lebron and Kobe's late game numbers don't have a 25% disparity. If you're going to make arguments, make genuine ones.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
Being clutch continues to be the most overated thing in basketball history. If your teams have to rely so much on someone being clutch then you won't win a lot of chips. Look at the Bulls.

MorisUkunRasik said:
Heat went 7 games against a super old celtics team who went 7 games against a super shitty 8th seed sixers team who almost didn't make the playoffs. OKC/Spurs/Lakers/Mavs/Grizz could have been back to back EC champs, winning the east is nothing to brag about.


Heat being a second round knock out in the West wouldn't be hard to argue.
Click to expand...

Celtics got taken to 7 by both a shitty ass Hawks team and a shitty Cav team the year they shamed your lakers in the Finals. Boston has played to their competitions level for years, you would have to be blind to say they didn't step it up against the Heat.

Nobody is bragging about making it out of the east. You are saying that even with Bosh and Wade LBJ still can't get a ring, while he's still in a great spot to win one. In the same breath you are claiming Heat would get knocked out in the second round in the WCF when you and everyone else in this thread constantly argues me down about how the Heat are the overwhelming favorites.

Something something dissonance..
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Vahagn said:
Kobe has way more total game winners, and actual good Finals games. So stop picking an arbitrary thing and then going with it.


Also, you're full of shit, Lebron hasn't hit a playoff game winner in his time with the Heat. He has less than 5 playoff game winners in his entire Cavs career, so wtf are you talking about.
Click to expand...

Why do you bring up "big games" then include regular season game winners?

Kobe has 4 playoff game winners.
 
R

Ramblin

Banned
iamshadowlark said:
Being clutch continues to be the most overated thing in basketball history. If your teams have to rely so much on someone being clutch then you won't win a lot of chips. Look at the Bulls.



Celtics got taken to 7 by both a shitty ass Hawks team and a shitty Cav team the year they shamed your lakers in the Finals. Boston has played to their competitions level for years, you would have to be blind to say they didn't step it up against the Heat.

Nobody is bragging about making it out of the east. You are saying that even with Bosh and Wade LBJ still can't get a ring, while he's still in a great spot to win one. In the same breath you are claiming Heat would get knocked out in the second round in the WCF when you and everyone else in this thread constantly argues me down about how the Heat are the overwhelming favorites.

Something something dissonance..
Click to expand...

The Heat are the refs favourites...
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
If Miami wants to win the series they need Lebron to have zombie face the whole time like game 6 of the Celtics series. He looks like someone murdered his family.
 
N

Nobility

Banned
This is the best series Stern could hope for.

Everyone will be talking about this series for years so should be very exciting.

Heat in 7.
 
F

FindMyFarms

Member
The M.O.B said:
Don't think anybody from Heat-Age thinks this series is going to be easy.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Also almost all the betting lines I've seen have the Thunder at -150 and I haven't seen a single line with the heat as favorites. Must be weird coming into a series as an underdog by all accounts, but at the same time being expected to win it all or be deemed a total failure. I don't think I've ever seen anything similar.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Vahagn said:
Everybody, including every NBA player, acknowledges being clutchness as being a real thing. But, by all means, keep being a dumbass with 0 basketball experience and argue against a universally acknowledged thing while calling everyone who disagrees with you suffering from dementia simply because you haven't found a way to quantify it yet.
Click to expand...
everybody? every NBA player? like, really?

is clutchness the 'new' truthiness? something you feel in your gut? do people with 1 basketball experience understand the 'clutch gene' less than someone with 3 basketball experience? how about 20? does it curve logarithmically?

thanks for reinforcing my view that those using any permutation of the 'clutch gene' when discussing sports is a simple-minded dolt. again, see: Bayless.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
dIEHARD said:
I assume you are counting the one he hit in 2004 against the Spurs in which Duncan then took the lead again.. then .4
Click to expand...

Nope

the video explains that every shot in that video is the last shot taken for the lakers, and it results in a win for LA.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
It seems like the hate for LeBron has diminished recently while the hate for Wade has grown considerably. Sounds about right to me.
 
Z

zychi

Banned
Vahagn said:
That's arbitrary. He has a lot more total game winners, and unlike Lebron, he actually has Finals game winners/big finals games.


Efficiency literally doesn't matter in discussing this, people would like you to believe it does, but it doesn't.


It's like saying Rondo is a better scorer than AI because he scores at a higher efficiency.
Click to expand...

6/24. Lucky Pau bailed him out against the Czzz
 
V

Vahagn

Member
2000 Suns
2000 Pacers
2002 SA
2006 Suns
2008 SA


dIEHARD said:
4 or 5

no matter, he isn't clutch.
Click to expand...


You're seriously looking at some wrong stats. Even so, yes he is. Again, FG% doesn't matter. You don't argue that a 5 time scoring champion isn't a great scorer because his FG% isn't stellar. And you don't argue that a guy with 30+ game winners in his career and countless other game tying shots isn't clutch because of his FG%


It's silly. I guess If I get a better rate of return on my stock portfolio i'll be a better investor than Warren Buffet based on your logic. Splitting hairs over %'s instead of actual accomplishments.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
TS drops by 5.5% in elimination games? Clutch!

shoot 25.9% on game tying or game winning playoff shots? Clutch!

Have your teams Ortg drop by 18 points in the clutch? Clutch!
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Vahagn said:
The Decision isn't just the television special. It's everything that's part of the decision. The circus, the complete assholery to his coach/teammates/owner/GM,

and the leaving your best-record-in-the-league franchise that you quit on in game 5 of a 2-2 series after promising them a ring, to join the single best player comparable to you in your generation entering your prime


If Magic Left the Lakers to join the Celtics after losing in 1984, or Bird left the Celtics to join the Lakers after losing in 1985. Or Wilt and Russell teamed up. Or Jordan and Drexler teamed up. Or Kobe and Iverson teamed up.

in their prime


That's the only comparable type of situation. And Lebron left his franchise to join Wade's franchise. Say what you want about Lebron being the franchise player because he's better, but he's not the franchise player. That's not how it works. If Bynum puts up better numbers than Kobe next year he won't be the franchise player.

That's still Wade's team and Wade's city. Wade was the franchise player when Shaq came on board, and he's still the franchise player now.


But the real travesty is you comparing KG toiling away in Minny for a decade + with no help and then finally being traded mid-contract to the Celtics in the tail end of his prime to Lebron leaving to join Miami/Wade while entering his prime. There's no comparison.
Click to expand...

It would be like Shaq and Kobe teaming up in their primes!
 
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