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[Gambit2483]

Nowhere near as good as CG cutscenes

But spending millions of budget in those cutscenes that would look entirely different than ingame cutscenes would be worth it? Not to mention +50gb for the game's size.

Worst cutscene in FF 7 Remake was the CG one in the Shinra building where Cloud and crew saw the future with the meteor.
Looked great, but it was jarring to see characters and etc. at a different fidelity just for 2 minutes of cutscene.

I would rather have had the cutscene be ingame like the others in the game.

We are not in the PS1 era anymore. Ingame cutscenes are good enough

Yeah it was pretty jarring to see the 2 or 3 CG scenes in FF7R....I understand why they did it...but it definitely took you out a bit.. especially on PS5.

 

[Satansblade]

(If anyone doesn't want to read this admitedly big text, I have made a low effort, low budget video talking about the same thing, which is located below)








Truth be told, Final Fantasy has been confused about what it should become ever since Final Fantasy 13. The first Final Fantasy I played (and fell in love with) was Final Fantasy 10, and ever since then, through the years, I have gone back and played every single game from this legendary franchise. Yes, even the 8th game. And even though they all vary in excellence, they all share similar qualities beyond just having Moogles, Chocobos, and a random dude named Cid. As a Final Fantasy fan, I was excited to see what a new Final Fantasy could bring to the table. And then they showed FF 16. I gave the game the benefit of the doubt about its ability to impress me as a longtime fan, but then the State of Play Showcase in April 2023 happened. Now, I am sure of one thing: Square Enix has no idea what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

Don’t get me wrong.: the game looks absolutely beautiful, and as its own self-contained game, it might be great. But FF 16 is a far cry from what a franchise that practically birthed the RPG genre should be about. There is a saying among hardcore gaming enthusiasts and modern Final Fantasy fans that goes somewhere along these lines:

“Final Fantasy has always been about change. No game is ever similar to the previous one.”

This, my fine gentlemen, is one of the most stupid phrases anyone who has played multiple Final Fantasy games could hear. Yes, the franchise is not about a singular storyline that spans multiple games, so in that sense, each game is its own self-contained universe, and so it isn’t restricted by any story or any type of narrative. But the problem is that they are all Final Fantasy. They all carry a certain amount of expectation. And for anyone who has played the early games, they know that even if there are some changes to the structures of the story and gameplay here and there, they all retain a singular DNA, which is:

1 - Focus on telling a compelling story.

2 - Deep, tactical battles that focus on the build and strategy of the decisions made and their ramifications in the future, rather than reflex and last-minute decisions, much like a chess game.

3 - And finally, the progression of your strength through the game is focused on different builds you can make, rather than, once again, the inputs you can make at the last second, the reflexes you build through playing the game, or the combos you can employ. To put it simply, the skill comes from being able to read what your enemy is capable of and will do in the future, and act upon that knowledge, considering what your party is currently able to do, rather than building your reflexes to react to an attack the enemy is doing.

So comes the Showcase with an extended look at the 16th game in the franchise, and the only conclusion I could draw at the end is that Square Enix was envious of Capcom and its Devil May Cry franchise and decided to copy it. Because from the core foundations that Final Fantasy had as a brand until recently, they are missing two of them, with the only one that Square seems to be honoring and building upon is telling an interesting story. And even then, they seem overly focused on telling a VERY pretty story, full of eye candies in certain scenes and not having much else, which further puts into question where their focus really is: Do they want to make a great Final Fantasy game, or do they want to make a beautiful game that chases the latest trends?

I fear that the only reason Final Fantasy 7 Remake was such a wonderful and worthy addition to the franchise was because it had an anchor: the original Final Fantasy 7 and the expectations of both fans and developers to honor its legacy. Thanks to this, I feel like we got a perfect balance between taking the DNA of what Final Fantasy is, using almost 30 years of innovation to make it fresh again, but without Square’s apparently innate fear of missing out on potential sales by not adapting to trends and systems that seem more “popular” today. Don’t get me wrong, there is always a need for evolution. That’s how we got Ocarina of Time when the jump to 3D was necessary, and that’s how we got Breath of the Wild recently. That’s how we got God of War 4, and now God of War 5, and so many more. Clinging completely to past glories will make you obsolete, which is what is happening to many Microsoft franchises that failed to reinvent themselves.

But there is a difference between reinventing oneself and going completely the opposite way. Elden Ring was a successful game because of its unapologetic difficulty and masterful craftsmanship in most aspects, but it managed to sell 13 million copies in one month because it had been building a fanbase for more than a decade, ever since From Software released Demon Souls. Dark Souls 1,2, and 3, Bloodborne, and now Elden Ring. Each new entry didn't reinvent itself, even the ones that were technically a different franchise, but they did improve what they did wrong and what they did right. There was an evolution without breaking the fundamental conventions of what a “Dark Souls game” is about. And when they veered too much off the path, they went and made something different, like Sekiro. But Square is squandering that legacy and that chain of events by doing what is essentially a new franchise with a different philosophy inside an existing franchise that already had its own philosophy. Anyone who is a devotee to what Final Fantasy used to stand for will look at this and feel like the company doesn’t care about what they want. And for Square Enix, having lost that safety net, they will basically need to convince an entirely new audience to buy that game because they are no longer catering to their old, faithful audience, instead of making something that would be a true evolution and potentially appealing to both, as Zelda and God of War did, like FF 7 Remake was.

I do think that, without considering it part of one of the oldest gaming franchises around, Final Fantasy 16 will probably be a great game. Excellent, even. But this is a Final Fantasy game only in name, and I am left scratching my head wondering what Square was thinking by naming this game FF 16 instead of just making it its own original IP, which would make the game a much easier sell to anyone, as it wouldn’t leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth. One day, I hope Square rediscovers what Final Fantasy stands for. But until then, I will be looking elsewhere for the itch the older games of this franchise used to scratch.

Well, that was a lot of nonsense with no actual point beyond "This isn't what I wanted so it's not FF", which is absolutely bonkers.

1. This game is by the best story teller SE has.
2. FF has never, ever had deep tactical battles. Ever. and DMC is far, far more tactical than FF ever was.
3. You progress in strength and abilities in Final Fantasy 16, they even showed the skill tree last week.

So really, what are you saying? Mostly you just typed a bunch of nonsense. Especially the last paragraph, pretending this is a "hard sell". Seriously, you wrote a fanboy creed with no actual valid points beyond "It's not what I want".

 

[Satansblade]

I agree with TC. I think one needs to make clear; is FF a series or just a brand? SE is indeed using it as a mere brand. Its name is supposed to sell a game that may be great on its own but has little intention of honoring its legacy past some surface level references.

FF16 may turn out to be a true FF game in the end but what they have shown points to the opposite. The combat with its single character action model is simply unheard of in a series characterized by party RPG gameplay. The art direction is intentionally toned down not to frighten western casuals away. The story so far hasn't been shown to possess the more beautiful/fairy-tale aspects of previous FF games.

All this would have been pure speculation had the producer himself not confirmed it already. We can't even call it JRPG anymore because the title would hypothetically frighten western players. Not exactly the words of someone confident in FF as a series. Rather than setting the trends like in the past, focus is as Nautilus mentioned in instead chasing them.

God, this is a low effort take. He never said anything about frightening western players, he said that Japanese developers thought americans were using JRPG because they felt WRPG's were better and insulting them (because they are just all RPG's). they thought american press was low key insulting them by branding their games as something else, when they are just RPG's. Language barriers cause these problems.

Leave it people on this forum to twist peoples words while not actually understanding what was said.

Also, this game is definitely a true FF, and it's certainly not forum members here who can decide it isn't. It has all the trappings of FF, with an even better combat system.

 

[Satansblade]

Yeah. I can't for the lve of god not understand how Square can't see that, if they kept with a singular visions on what the gameplay, story, structure, etc should be(obviously innovating with every entry), could be more beneficial to them and bring a bigger and loyal audience to them than just keep shooting on whatever the new thing is.

I do have a hope that Square will eventually make a sister FF franchise thaat will be dedicated to what FF stands for. In a sense, the FF7 Remake games are basically that, and I feel like they will keep on doing that, as a "spin off" of sorts, much like Persona was once a spin off to Shin Megami Tensei.

lol . What does FFXVI do that isn't FF? Name one thing.

FF isn't combat. It's a story, a journey, with the trappings of FF built in. Low fantasy with high magic based tech, chocobos, moogles, fleshed out villains, airships, big swords, magic and summons, etc.

The combat system is the least important part. You just continue to be wrong about what FF is.

 

[Satansblade]

I'm being honest. The moment I get afraid(or something to that effect) about posting my honest feeling on gaming topics on a gaming forum that I have jjoined just for that, it's the same day that I'll quit for hanging here. It's just like when videogamedunkey announced when he was going into publishing: Everyone was bitching baout him being a publisher, and calling him all sorts of names. But he has the balls from standing up from the chair and doing something about what he feels strongly about, while the people that keep belittleling him and those arm chair analysts that know better, but never act on any of it and prefer the safety of their chair. I am putting my opinion out there, and not calling others out for just doing that. So I'll never be ashamed of that.

I want new games with new things in the foundations that said franchise has built upon. Like BOTW. Anyone who played that would say to you, in straight face, that is Zelda through and through. But at the same time, it is a new experience. That's what I want out of FF. To feel like FF but still being a fresh experience, and FF 16 is not. It seems that you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Which is to be expected, given how defensive you are being about validating your opinion on this game.

And I am playing them. And they are not nostalgia games, they are brand new games being made in mind with a specific audience. FF has not moved on, it has been chasing trends for the past 20 years, and look where that has gotten them into. It managed to sold as well as Zelda, and now Zelda sells 3 times the amount that any FF game does, without turning into something that it is not.

Everyone read what you wrote, we just don't agree. This IS FF. You don't get to decide what FF is. And saying it's not fresh? That's ridiculous.

Comparing Zelda is dumb, because it's not at all the same type of game. But your argument doesn't just fail there, it fails because you're pretending only you get to decide what FF is, and that's absurd.

You keep claiming nonsense like "FF has not moved on", but in the SAME SENTENCE say they have been "Chasing trends for 20 years".

I'm guessing you're young, because your argument is incoherent, and it seems you don't really understand what FF is, while telling those of us who played FF since it released on NES that this game isn't FF, even though it has all the trappings of FF.

 

[saintjules]

I am left scratching my head wondering what Square was thinking by naming this game FF 16 instead of just making it its own original IP, which would make the game a much easier sell to anyone, as it wouldn’t leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth.

Doesn't matter

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/final-fantasy-16-rockets-up-sales-charts-after-state-of-play-showcase.1655429/

 

[Nautilus]

lol . What does FFXVI do that isn't FF? Name one thing.

FF isn't combat. It's a story, a journey, with the trappings of FF built in. Low fantasy with high magic based tech, chocobos, moogles, fleshed out villains, airships, big swords, magic and summons, etc.

The combat system is the least important part. You just continue to be wrong about what FF is.

It's written in the OP...

Go read it.Or watch it.

Anyway, whether you agree or not its your right. As I have written extensively in other replies, this is my opinion and how I feel about it. XV never felt like FF, and neither does XVI, no matter how high the pedigree is regarding the staff making it.

 

[Nautilus]

Everyone read what you wrote, we just don't agree. This IS FF. You don't get to decide what FF is. And saying it's not fresh? That's ridiculous.

Comparing Zelda is dumb, because it's not at all the same type of game. But your argument doesn't just fail there, it fails because you're pretending only you get to decide what FF is, and that's absurd.

You keep claiming nonsense like "FF has not moved on", but in the SAME SENTENCE say they have been "Chasing trends for 20 years".

I'm guessing you're young, because your argument is incoherent, and it seems you don't really understand what FF is, while telling those of us who played FF since it released on NES that this game isn't FF, even though it has all the trappings of FF.

And you get to decide what FF is? And if a company says "This is the franchise you used to play, suck it up", I'll just have to say "Yes sir!"? Tell that to Paper Mario fans lol.

So yeah sure, this is a Square IP, so if they want to take what is essentially a new IP and slap Final Fantasy on it, they can. Doesn't mean that me or anyone else who likes what FF used to stand for needs to accept it. The Zelda comparison is just an example on how to propeely modernize a franchise and keep it true to its roots. And that's a concept that can be applied regardless of the game genre. Thought it was something easy to understand, but it seems it was too complex for you.

FF has not "moved on" in terms of growing up... Chasing trends is not growing up... If you read the whole convo of replies, which you were not involved in, you would have understood. But no, you had to score some easy points in favor of your favorite game, and in the process you made yourself looking like a fool.

And yeah sure, go ahead and say I'm young when I explicily told in the OP that I went back and played all FF games. Ladies and gentleman, when you see someone attacking the user directly, is when you know that he either ran out of arguments, or are unable to come with any kind of arguments in the first place.

There, there. Would it make you feel better if I said(again) that this is just my opinion, and that my opinion by no means influence your beloved game from releasing?

 

[Nautilus]

Doesn't matter

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/final-fantasy-16-rockets-up-sales-charts-after-state-of-play-showcase.1655429/

Oh right. I'm so sorry. Now that FF is doing so well in 1 retailer for the past 3 days, FF will be saved and all will be well.

Ugh.

Regardless of how well the game itself is, and I am fully confident it will have a great launch, that won't stop it from leaving a bad taste behind.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Nowhere near as good as CG cutscenes

But spending millions of budget in those cutscenes that would look entirely different than ingame cutscenes would be worth it? Not to mention +50gb for the game's size.

Worst cutscene in FF 7 Remake was the CG one in the Shinra building where Cloud and crew saw the future with the meteor.
Looked great, but it was jarring to see characters and etc. at a different fidelity just for 2 minutes of cutscene.

I would rather have had the cutscene be ingame like the others in the game.

We are not in the PS1 era anymore. Ingame cutscenes are good enough

I don’t agree with this at all and I don’t find it “jarring.” It’s not “good enough” and I’m not sure why people say things like “we’re not in the PS1 era anymore” when PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5 games have used CG cutscenes. Destiny 2, Diablo IV (and pretty much any Blizzard game), FFXV, FFVIIR, Rebirth and Part 3 will use them, KHIII, KHIV will surely use them, DQX and its ongoing expansions, DQXI, DQXII will surely use them, Dragon Quest Dai, every single Call of Duty game for the past, like, decade, Halo Wars 2, Halo 5, Halo Infinite, Kirby games, Fire Emblem games, and plenty of games still use anime cutscenes or have a CG cutscene for the opening. And Nintendo just acquired a CG studio and I can’t wait to see what they do with them.

 

[Satansblade]

The second one. They are definitely followers now.


That's how I felt too although a lot of people have very different takes on FF7R, and they will likely screw all that up and over-indulge their more pretentious side with embarrassing meta twists that ruin everything in part 2 because Square.

The FF we loved is dead. Enjoy the very pretty action game with fancy summons and cringey drama and look to other developers like Atlus and Monoliftsoft for the future of epic jrpg adventures.

Given their modern day ineptitude at making interesting characters and scenarios, the best we could hope for from them with regards to getting something that feels up to date but also like a Final Fantasy game would be if Squeenix did high quality remakes of all their old games, capcom style, which would probably take about 7 years per game.

FF7R was fantastic, and if you can't see where the story is going, and why there were twists, that's a you problem.

This is a joke post right? The cg cutscenes in 13 destroy anything we've seen from 16 so far. Cg in most games still destroy 16.

Wait? Are you being serious? Because if so, get an eye test.

looks like a pretty casual friendly game.

Someone never played DMC.

Exactly lol. Far more people stopped giving a shit about FF because Square couldn't decide what to do with it, and sales stagnated.

This is a nonsense opinion with no basis in fact. It has been your baseline this whole thread.

I'm not so sure. If Square went completely back to the roots and released a old school turn based FF with high res sprites and backgrounds it could be huge. They're trying to meet a demanded that no one has demanded. FFIX is the last 'real' Final Fantasy and everyone loved it.

No, it would sell to those of us who grew up with sprite based FF games. Everyone else would ignore it, like they have with A LOT of squares 2DHD stuff.

Yeah, because Persona 5, Octopath Traveler, and many other games of such style, with a fraction of the brand recognigion of FF, did so poorly, and so very little people were interested. lol

There are some bad takes, and then there are opinions like this.

Persona sold 3.2m, far less than the last FF games. Did you have a point here? Persona is nothing like FF.

This game doesn't look or feel like a final fantasy game. Should have been called something else.

This is nonsense. Not only does it look like an FF game, it looks like a 3d version of the original FF games pre-FF6, when they brought in more advanced tech. A lot of ignorance in this thread.

You are probably refering to FF Xv, as I don't remember 13 doing super well, and 12 didn't do better than X.(I think).

The problem is that XV did most of its sales on the long run, and did so at lower prices, as it hit something close to bargain bin prices relatively fast. Plus, and I might be mistaken on this, FF XV developmemt cost was especially high compared to previous FF, so much so that even some DLCs had to be cancelled because it lacked interest for them and Square decided to cut its losses. Not to memtion the critical reception the game had. So all in all, it's financial success might have been lower than what any of the previous entries might have been.

FF XIV is an exception. And even then, an expensive exception that was very costly Square with its 1.0 release. I personaly don't even consider the MMO entries an mainline games, as they are an ever expanding story, but that's a discussion for another time.

So yeah, FF has been a hit or miss for almost 20 years now. And even the ones that are a hit, the "growth" we see is small compared to what the other long standing franchises are doing nowadays.

@mortal Yup, I imagined he wouldn't even bother to properly reply to me, as he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Just goes to show how much he really cares. Its probably better if I just ignore him.

XIII sold over 7m in a time when 7m was huge sales. X sold 9m. XII sold over 13m between its two versions, more than 8 and 9, almost together, and was close in sales to FFVII. . You've been wrong so much in this thread, you should be embarrassed by now.

Active time battle. Its the type of turn based system that FF 4 through 8 used.

And he is flat out wrong. FF 15 wasn't 100% action, but that wasn't atb even to people high on LSD.

15 used ATB, it just wasn't visible. Again, how wrong can you be about all this?

You clearly haven't played any (good) turn based RPG.

And that wasn't even the point I was defending in my text. But do go on, you are entertaining me greatly.

Ive played hundreds, and have probably been playing them since long before you were born.
There is nothing tactical about FF. Str based characters attack, magic users use elemental weakness, a couple of times a game you get enemies with weird gimmichs, but they follow formulas, not strategy. There has never been strategy in a mainline FF game.

Seriously, you clearly don't understand FF. Your whole argument is "Muh turn based".

 

[Satansblade]

Oh right. I'm so sorry. Now that FF is doing so well in 1 retailer for the past 3 days, FF will be saved and all will be well.

Ugh.

Regardless of how well the game itself is, and I am fully confident it will have a great launch, that won't stop it from leaving a bad taste behind.

bad taste for who? You? Because the community is stoked.

You must be a teen, right? Because you sound like one and argue like one. "I have no facts, but couldn't possibly be wrong".

 

[Satansblade]

And you get to decide what FF is? And if a company says "This is the franchise you used to play, suck it up", I'll just have to say "Yes sir!"? Tell that to Paper Mario fans lol.

So yeah sure, this is a Square IP, so if they want to take what is essentially a new IP and slap Final Fantasy on it, they can. Doesn't mean that me or anyone else who likes what FF used to stand for needs to accept it. The Zelda comparison is just an example on how to propeely modernize a franchise and keep it true to its roots. And that's a concept that can be applied regardless of the game genre. Thought it was something easy to understand, but it seems it was too complex for you.

FF has not "moved on" in terms of growing up... Chasing trends is not growing up... If you read the whole convo of replies, which you were not involved in, you would have understood. But no, you had to score some easy points in favor of your favorite game, and in the process you made yourself looking like a fool.

And yeah sure, go ahead and say I'm young when I explicily told in the OP that I went back and played all FF games. Ladies and gentleman, when you see someone attacking the user directly, is when you know that he either ran out of arguments, or are unable to come with any kind of arguments in the first place.

There, there. Would it make you feel better if I said(again) that this is just my opinion, and that my opinion by no means influence your beloved game from releasing?

I read the whole thing, and you haven't made a bit of sense yet.

How it is a new IP? That's the dumbest comment you made yet.

You clearly don't know what FF is.

Almost everyone in this thread has told you you're wrong, but you keep beating the dead horse with nonsense arguments.

Nobody attacked you, we're attacking your incoherent arguments.

Teell me what FF is, because right now you seem to think it's just turn based combat, which is ridiculous.

 

[Nautilus]

FF7R was fantastic, and if you can't see where the story is going, and why there were twists, that's a you problem.

Wait? Are you being serious? Because if so, get an eye test.

Someone never played DMC.

This is a nonsense opinion with no basis in fact. It has been your baseline this whole thread.

No, it would sell to those of us who grew up with sprite based FF games. Everyone else would ignore it, like they have with A LOT of squares 2DHD stuff.

Persona sold 3.2m, far less than the last FF games. Did you have a point here? Persona is nothing like FF.

This is nonsense. Not only does it look like an FF game, it looks like a 3d version of the original FF games pre-FF6, when they brought in more advanced tech. A lot of ignorance in this thread.

XIII sold over 7m in a time when 7m was huge sales. X sold 9m. XII sold over 13m between its two versions, more than 8 and 9, almost together, and was close in sales to FFVII. . You've been wrong so much in this thread, you should be embarrassed by now.

15 used ATB, it just wasn't visible. Again, how wrong can you be about all this?

Ive played hundreds, and have probably been playing them since long before you were born.
There is nothing tactical about FF. Str based characters attack, magic users use elemental weakness, a couple of times a game you get enemies with weird gimmichs, but they follow formulas, not strategy. There has never been strategy in a mainline FF game.

Seriously, you clearly don't understand FF. Your whole argument is "Muh turn based".

God, this Neogaf feature about multiquote is horrible. Makes it a mess to answer everything orderly, and you kind of lose the thread of reasoning.

Funny you are calling my opinion is nonsense, when all opinions are subjective and thus nonsense in the eyes of people that like that product. So I guess your opinion is nonsense too?

Persona 5 only sold 3.2million?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Persona 5 Royal reaches 3.3 million units sold, with total sales surpassing 8 million copies | Game World Observer

Atlus has disclosed sales of Persona 5 Royal remaster recently released for PC and consoles. The Japanese company also shared total figures for Persona 5 and its spin-offs.

gameworldobserver.com

It sold more than 8 million globally, between both versions, and it's still selling very well. This just goes to show the ignorant BS you are spouting from your ass. Do a little research before butting in buddy.


About XIII: You just proved my point... XIII sold less than the previous entries. If 7 million for XIII were "huge sales" what was 9 million for X? Or the 13 million for XII? Pretty sure FF 7 through 9 sold more too. Oh, and I'm almost sure that FF XII, FF XV and now FF XVI must have costed far more to develop than the previous entries. Thank you for proving my point to me.

FF XV used ATB?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If you really think that, then I rest my case about how well versed you are in FF.

And yeah sure. You REALLY must have played hundreds of turn based RPGs if you think FF XV is ATB

lol

 

[Nautilus]

bad taste for who? You? Because the community is stoked.

You must be a teen, right? Because you sound like one and argue like one. "I have no facts, but couldn't possibly be wrong".

Oh yeah, because nothing screams more of a good arguments than trying to doenplay my own person.

"Oh, you must be a teen right? Go cry to mama".

Please dude, grow up. We are trying to have a serious conversation here.

 

[Nautilus]

I read the whole thing, and you haven't made a bit of sense yet.

How it is a new IP? That's the dumbest comment you made yet.

You clearly don't know what FF is.

Almost everyone in this thread has told you you're wrong, but you keep beating the dead horse with nonsense arguments.

Nobody attacked you, we're attacking your incoherent arguments.

Teell me what FF is, because right now you seem to think it's just turn based combat, which is ridiculous.

Its written in the OP what I think FF is. Stop being lazy and go read it. And if you don't want to, then stop complaining.

But who am I kidding? You don't care about making sound arguments. So far all you have done is belittle everyone and make personal attacks. It seems to me that you are the teen. But I digress.

 

[Satansblade]

God, this Neogaf feature about multiquote is horrible. Makes it a mess to answer everything orderly, and you kind of lose the thread of reasoning.

Funny you are calling my opinion is nonsense, when all opinions are subjective and thus nonsense in the eyes of people that like that product. So I guess your opinion is nonsense too?

Persona 5 only sold 3.2million?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://[URL]https://gameworldobserv...ersona 5 has sold 8.3 million units globally.

[/URL]

It sold more than 8 million globally, between both versions, and it's still selling very well. This just goes to show the ignorant BS you are spouting from your ass. Do a little research before butting in buddy.


About XIII: You just proved my point... XIII sold less than the previous entries. If 7 million for XIII were "huge sales" what was 9 million for X? Or the 13 million for XII? Pretty sure FF 7 through 9 sold more too. Oh, and I'm almost sure that FF XII, FF XV and now FF XVI must have costed far more to develop than the previous entries. Thank you for proving my point to me.

FF XV used ATB?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If you really think that, then I rest my case about how well versed you are in FF.

And yeah sure. You REALLY must have played hundreds of turn based RPGs if you think FF XV is ATB

lol

Ok, it's clear you don't understand hidden systems. Yes, FFXV used ATB. Just because you can't see the bar, doesn't change anything, nor does your ignorance. you always get a basic attack, but everything else is decided by an invisible atb.

Your ignorance is clear, and FFXVI will be incredibly successful.
I was wrong about persona sales, but that doesn't change that nobody wants FF to be persona. It also hasn't sold any better than FF. XIII sold bad because it was awful, not sure what you're on about there.

So again, YOU tell me what FF is, because it's clear its nothing but turn based battles to you, and that's fundamentally wrong.

Or are you not capable of coherent writing?

 

[Satansblade]

Oh yeah, because nothing screams more of a good arguments than trying to doenplay my own person.

"Oh, you must be a teen right? Go cry to mama".

Please dude, grow up. We are trying to have a serious conversation here.

no you aren't, you're attacking people who tell you they don't agree, pretending you know more than the devs about what FF is. The ultimate childish ignorance, so tell us what FF is.

 

[Satansblade]

Its written in the OP what I think FF is. Stop being lazy and go read it. And if you don't want to, then stop complaining.

But who am I kidding? You don't care about making sound arguments. So far all you have done is belittle everyone and make personal attacks. It seems to me that you are the teen. But I digress.

You wrote in the op that
1. Focus on compelling story.
YoshiP is by far the best story teller at SE.
2. Deep, tacticcal battles.
These have never been a part of FF, but you can't get more tactical than DMC
3. Progression of strength
This game clearly has levels and a progression and skill system.

So tell us, what is it missing to be a FF game?
C'mon, one rational post about what FF is.

 

[GHound]

they thought american press was low key insulting them by branding their games as something else, when they are just RPG's.

This part was pretty true in the past and is still pretty true today but for different reasons.

 

[Nautilus]

Ok, it's clear you don't understand hidden systems. Yes, FFXV used ATB. Just because you can't see the bar, doesn't change anything, nor does your ignorance. you always get a basic attack, but everything else is decided by an invisible atb.

Your ignorance is clear, and FFXVI will be incredibly successful.
I was wrong about persona sales, but that doesn't change that nobody wants FF to be persona. It also hasn't sold any better than FF. XIII sold bad because it was awful, not sure what you're on about there.

So again, YOU tell me what FF is, because it's clear its nothing but turn based battles to you, and that's fundamentally wrong.

Or are you not capable of coherent writing?

Oh, now FF XIII are bad? But didn't you just say that "it sold 7 million in a time when 7 million was great"? So, which is it?

And lol about XV "ATB system" being hidden. Now any game whose skills(Or anything, really) is behind a cooldown is secretly copying from FF XV and its an ATB system. You are too funny.

I don't want FF to be Persona. Persona was just an example that turn based games can sell just as well as any AAA game, provided it has the marketing and its a good game. A detail you either ignored or didn't read at all.


For the third time, just read the OP, that the reason is written there. Because guess what? I wrote the OP, you dimwhit. But like many simple minded folk, you just jumped straight to the comments after reading the title, didn't you? But I guess that's what a teen would do, so its to be expected.

 

[Nautilus]

no you aren't, you're attacking people who tell you they don't agree, pretending you know more than the devs about what FF is. The ultimate childish ignorance, so tell us what FF is.

I'm not pretending anything. This is a opinion, as its written in the title, so that assumes that people understand that whatever will be written in the OP comes from my point and view, and includes my preference. And will be written as such.


If you don't agree, feel free to say so. But don't go putting words in my mouth. I'm not happy with the direction that FF has been going for the last 20 years, with the exception of FF 7 Remake, and I'll be vocal about it. But if you are, more power to you.

 

[Nautilus]

You wrote in the op that
1. Focus on compelling story.
YoshiP is by far the best story teller at SE.
2. Deep, tacticcal battles.
These have never been a part of FF, but you can't get more tactical than DMC
3. Progression of strength
This game clearly has levels and a progression and skill system.

So tell us, what is it missing to be a FF game?
C'mon, one rational post about what FF is.

Those stuff you just mentioned? Just because you don't agree, dosen't mean that is not a valid argument. The first point, as stated in the OP which you clearly didn't read it all, is the only legacy that seems that will be respected.

 

[Roman Empire]

This thread is a goldmine. I'm having a blast

 

[diffusionx]

nm, wrong thread

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

FF7R was fantastic, and if you can't see where the story is going, and why there were twists, that's a you problem.

Wait? Are you being serious? Because if so, get an eye test.

Someone never played DMC.

This is a nonsense opinion with no basis in fact. It has been your baseline this whole thread.

No, it would sell to those of us who grew up with sprite based FF games. Everyone else would ignore it, like they have with A LOT of squares 2DHD stuff.

Persona sold 3.2m, far less than the last FF games. Did you have a point here? Persona is nothing like FF.

This is nonsense. Not only does it look like an FF game, it looks like a 3d version of the original FF games pre-FF6, when they brought in more advanced tech. A lot of ignorance in this thread.

XIII sold over 7m in a time when 7m was huge sales. X sold 9m. XII sold over 13m between its two versions, more than 8 and 9, almost together, and was close in sales to FFVII. . You've been wrong so much in this thread, you should be embarrassed by now.

15 used ATB, it just wasn't visible. Again, how wrong can you be about all this?

Ive played hundreds, and have probably been playing them since long before you were born.
There is nothing tactical about FF. Str based characters attack, magic users use elemental weakness, a couple of times a game you get enemies with weird gimmichs, but they follow formulas, not strategy. There has never been strategy in a mainline FF game.

Seriously, you clearly don't understand FF. Your whole argument is "Muh turn based".

You’re the one that needs an eye test if you think FFXVI looks better than FFXIII’s CG cutscenes.

You’re trying to tell me XVI looks better than this?


Edit: hold on wtf am I even reading? FFXII sold nowhere near 13 million with all its versions combined, first of all, and secondly, FFXV does not have “invisible ATB.” It’s clear that you make shit up just to make whatever point you want to make.

 

[Madserb2023]

I don't know why they can't just do what Nintendo does with its franchises and have multiple gameplay types. You can have a top down FF like 6, a more linear full 3D turn based game like 10 and an open world game with real time combat. They can also mix it up by having a top down/isometric version with real time combat. There is no need to keep to one style at the expense of another.

 

[Satansblade]

I don't know why they can't just do what Nintendo does with its franchises and have multiple gameplay types. You can have a top down FF like 6, a more linear full 3D turn based game like 10 and an open world game with real time combat. They can also mix it up by having a top down/isometric version with real time combat. There is no need to keep to one style at the expense of another.

I mean they do that now. OP is whining about a single game not being turn based.

 

[Hugare]

I don’t agree with this at all and I don’t find it “jarring.” It’s not “good enough” and I’m not sure why people say things like “we’re not in the PS1 era anymore” when PS2, PS3, PS4, and PS5 games have used CG cutscenes. Destiny 2, Diablo IV (and pretty much any Blizzard game), FFXV, FFVIIR, Rebirth and Part 3 will use them, KHIII, KHIV will surely use them, DQX and its ongoing expansions, DQXI, DQXII will surely use them, Dragon Quest Dai, every single Call of Duty game for the past, like, decade, Halo Wars 2, Halo 5, Halo Infinite, Kirby games, Fire Emblem games, and plenty of games still use anime cutscenes or have a CG cutscene for the opening. And Nintendo just acquired a CG studio and I can’t wait to see what they do with them.

Do some research and see how many games use CG cutscenes at this day and age compared to past gens

How many PS4 and PS5 games uses CG?

Your examples:

FFXV : Used once in the intro, and small snippets from the CG movie that they've released before the game
FF VIIR: Used twice, for the cutscene in the Shinra building and the ending
KH III: Used twice: in the intro and the ending. All the other cutscenes are in-engine.
DQ XI: It has three CG cutscenes: intro, final boss and ending.

Despite Blizzard being the best in the industry regarding CG cutscenes in games, Diablo III has 28 minutes of CG cutscenes, which pales in comparison to story heavy games.

FF VII R has 15 hours of cutscenes. Do you have any idea the amount of work and money required to make all of them in CG?

To say that something like FF VII R or Naughty Dog games arent "good enough" is laughable

FF VII R is many times better than Advent Children

Spending huge amounts of money for CG when games have this much fidelity is a very, very dumb decision, and why many developers dont waste their time with it

 

[Satansblade]

Those stuff you just mentioned? Just because you don't agree, dosen't mean that is not a valid argument. The first point, as stated in the OP which you clearly didn't read it all, is the only legacy that seems that will be respected.

I mean again, ill write it out once more since you understand:

1: YoshiP is the best story teller at square.


2. DMC combat is extremely tactical, and therefore likely to be more tactical than any FF before it. In DMC If you mash buttons and kill enemies in the incorrect order, the game becomes more difficult and your rating is lower. In FF this is also true, but you can turn off the numbers, they are just there for those who want to compete against others worldwide. Nobody need participate.

3. The game has a strength progression system just like every FF before it. They showed the upgrade and ability screens very clearly in the State of Play.

So it clearly has the three points you listed. It also has summons, chocobos, moogles, FF magic, FF monsters, party members (ai in combat, but still party members), crystals, techno-fantasy aesthetic…

So all I want is for you to tell me how this isn’t a Final Fantasy game? If you can’t do that, while acknowledging your first post is factually wrong, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Satansblade]

You’re the one that needs an eye test if you think FFXVI looks better than FFXIII’s CG cutscenes.

You’re trying to tell me XVI looks better than this?


Edit: hold on wtf am I even reading? FFXII sold nowhere near 13 million with all its versions combined, first of all, and secondly, FFXV does not have “invisible ATB.” It’s clear that you make shit up just to make whatever point you want to make.

You’re the one that needs an eye test if you think FFXVI looks better than FFXIII’s CG cutscenes.

You’re trying to tell me XVI looks better than this?


Edit: hold on wtf am I even reading? FFXII sold nowhere near 13 million with all its versions combined, first of all, and secondly, FFXV does not have “invisible ATB.” It’s clear that you make shit up just to make whatever point you want to make.

In XV you have a basic attack with an atb in the background dictating how often you can use stronger abilities. It’s not complete action combat.

And yes, FFXVI looks far better than a cutscene using lens flare to cover its flat, shiny surfaces and porcelain looking characters. Take away all the fake lens flair, and you have an average looking ps3 era CGI cutscene. Id much rather have in engine scenes from XVI.

Go compare that to modern cgi in games like D4, THOSE are great looking cgi cutscenes.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Final fantasy fans need to take a breath, not only is final fantasy 7 remake part 2 coming out, but there’s mmos, future ff games and you have new young developers taking over the franchise.

 

[Skelterz]

Regardless of what anyone says FF’s best era of games where from 6-10 it’s a simple fact and all of those games just so happen to be turn based, it almost feels like as SE got more experimental with the battle mechanics the games got worse. So you can all sit here and say “you don’t know what final fantasy is if you think it’s just about being turn based” but let’s just remind ourselves of all the confusing halfassed video games square has put out under the FF moniker in the last decade and you try telling me that anyone of those shitty games are better than FF6-10.

It just isn’t happening lads .

There’s some truth to the point being made by OP if you take away the extremely basic ingredients being used in FF16 like moogles, chocobos and Eikons would it even slightly resemble a FF game?

Not for my money.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

If I am not mistaken, the qte prompts are optional accessibility features.

 

[Skelterz]

I mean again, ill write it out once more since you understand:

1: YoshiP is the best story teller at square.


2. DMC combat is extremely tactical, and therefore likely to be more tactical than any FF before it. In DMC If you mash buttons and kill enemies in the incorrect order, the game becomes more difficult and your rating is lower. In FF this is also true, but you can turn off the numbers, they are just there for those who want to compete against others worldwide. Nobody need participate.

3. The game has a strength progression system just like every FF before it. They showed the upgrade and ability screens very clearly in the State of Play.

So it clearly has the three points you listed. It also has summons, chocobos, moogles, FF magic, FF monsters, party members (ai in combat, but still party members), crystals, techno-fantasy aesthetic…

So all I want is for you to tell me how this isn’t a Final Fantasy game? If you can’t do that, while acknowledging your first post is factually wrong, I don’t know what to tell you.

I’d argue the best story teller square ever had went and formed monolith soft with his wife.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Do some research and see how many games use CG cutscenes at this day and age compared to past gens

How many PS4 and PS5 games uses CG?

Your examples:

FFXV : Used once in the intro, and small snippets from the CG movie that they've released before the game
FF VIIR: Used twice, for the cutscene in the Shinra building and the ending
KH III: Used twice: in the intro and the ending. All the other cutscenes are in-engine.
DQ XI: It has three CG cutscenes: intro, final boss and ending.

Despite Blizzard being the best in the industry regarding CG cutscenes in games, Diablo III has 28 minutes of CG cutscenes, which pales in comparison to story heavy games.

FF VII R has 15 hours of cutscenes. Do you have any idea the amount of work and money required to make all of them in CG?

To say that something like FF VII R or Naughty Dog games arent "good enough" is laughable

FF VII R is many times better than Advent Children

Spending huge amounts of money for CG when games have this much fidelity is a very, very dumb decision, and why many developers dont waste their time with it

It is baffling we have people demanding CG cutscenes given the high fidelity graphics we have these days. CG was used in the past because they needed more detail to showcase a scene or emotional moment. We don't need to rely on that anymore.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I don't know why they can't just do what Nintendo does with its franchises and have multiple gameplay types. You can have a top down FF like 6, a more linear full 3D turn based game like 10 and an open world game with real time combat. They can also mix it up by having a top down/isometric version with real time combat. There is no need to keep to one style at the expense of another.

They kinda do that already. Bravely Default is basically the “New Super Mario Bros” of Final Fantasy.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Man, I'm loving the Dark theme on Gamefaqs.


Wait.

Oh God, this is GAF.

 

[Satansblade]

I mean again, ill write it out once more since you understand:

1: YoshiP is the best story teller at square.


2. DMC combat is extremely tactical, and therefore likely to be more tactical than any FF before it. In DMC If you mash buttons and kill enemies in the incorrect order, the game becomes more difficult and your rating is lower. In FF this is also true, but you can turn off the numbers, they are just there for those who want to compete against others worldwide. Nobody need participate.

3. The game has a strength progression system just like every FF before it. They showed the upgrade and ability screens very clearly in the State of Play.

So it clearly has the three points you listed. It also has summons, chocobos, moogles, FF magic, FF monsters, party members (ai in combat, but still party members), crystals, techno-fantasy aesthetic…

So all I want is for you to tell me how this isn’t a Final Fantasy game? If you can’t do that, while acknowledging your first post is factually wrong, I don’t know what to tell you.

Still waiting Nautilus
You haven't answered, how is this not a Final Fantasy game if all of your criteria and more have been met?

 

[Satansblade]

I’d argue the best story teller square ever had went and formed monolith soft with his wife.

I disagree. Takashi would make second on my list. Xenogears is one of my favourites, I love XBC and XBC3 (especially 3), but I think YoshiP proved he is better with FFXIV.

Xenogears is among my top 5 games of all time, and likely near the top if I made the actual list

 

[Nautilus]

Still waiting Nautilus
You haven't answered, how is this not a Final Fantasy game if all of your criteria and more have been met?

?

I thought it was already answered, multiple times. The first one has been answered, the second and third weren't, as discussed extensively in the OP you didn't read. If you don't think that's the case, that's your problem.You are not worth my time anymore. I'm honestly tired of discussing with someone getting their information either so wrong that I've had to correct multiple times(Persona 5 sales, FF 13 sales being better than previous entries) AND ignoring all the evidence in my favor, the previous examples being just a tiny example, just to move goalposts and this ignorant dance to start all over again.

So please, do what you do best and ignore what I have said once again and move on to pester someone else. I'm done babysitting you.

 

[Satansblade]

?

I thought it was already answered, multiple times. The first one has been answered, the second and third weren't, as discussed extensively in the OP you didn't read. If you don't think that's the case, that's your problem.You are not worth my time anymore. I'm honestly tired of discussing with someone getting their information either so wrong that I've had to correct multiple times(Persona 5 sales, FF 13 sales being better than previous entries) AND ignoring all the evidence in my favor, the previous examples being just a tiny example, just to move goalposts and this ignorant dance to start all over again.

So please, do what you do best and ignore what I have said once again and move on to pester someone else. I'm done babysitting you.

Got it, you’re just ignorant. You answered nothing, literally nothing. Just some babbling nonsense, and attacking everyone who doesn’t agree. How about trying to actually answer.

No goalposts were moved, you said this doesn’t meet 3 criteria you made up. Multiple people proved you wrong, so you pretend you’ve made valid points and make ridiculous posts like this.

 

[GMCamaro]

Final Fantasy is in hospice hoping to make a recovery.

 

[saintjules]

This is a joke post right? The cg cutscenes in 13 destroy anything we've seen from 16 so far. Cg in most games still destroy 16.

Also:

This is a joke post right?

 

[Rea]

Final fantasy has lost its identity.

 

[hyperbertha]

Also:

you wanna compare the cg in ff13 with the borderline ps3 looking interior shots of ff16 buddy?

 

[Danjin44]

People can cry all they want about “why it doesn’t play like old game” but I’m gonna enjoy the crap out of FFXVI.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

you wanna compare the cg in ff13 with the borderline ps3 looking interior shots of ff16 buddy?

The stans of this game are delusional. Apparently you can’t be hyped if you don’t think every single aspect of this game is the best thing known to man. XVI’s character models don’t look that great and prior FF’s CG cutscenes absolutely shit on them.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

It is baffling we have people demanding CG cutscenes given the high fidelity graphics we have these days. CG was used in the past because they needed more detail to showcase a scene or emotional moment. We don't need to rely on that anymore.

I don’t care about “needing” them. They can still look way better and I like my eye candy. That + XVI isn’t nearly impressive enough to omit them.

Though I’m sure everyone stanning this game like it’s the reincarnation of Jesus would completely change their tune if the game was confirmed to have CG cutscenes.


Tbh I asked the XVI Instagram account “where are the CG cutscenes” and they liked my comment so I HAVE BEEN HEARD lol


Edit: I will also just want to point out that I genuinely think this game will be phenomenal. I just really really really really like my CG cutscenes and with FF it’s an expectation.

 

[Klosshufvud]

I don’t care about “needing” them. They can still look way better and I like my eye candy. That + XVI isn’t nearly impressive enough to omit them.

Though I’m sure everyone stanning this game like it’s the reincarnation of Jesus would completely change their tune if the game was confirmed to have CG cutscenes.


Tbh I asked the XVI Instagram account “where are the CG cutscenes” and they liked my comment so I HAVE BEEN HEARD lol


Edit: I will also just want to point out that I genuinely think this game will be phenomenal. I just really really really really like my CG cutscenes and with FF it’s an expectation.

I completely agree. CG scenes are a hallmark FF trait. I can't imagine playing an FF game and not be occasionally treated with a visual marvel of CG animations. SE has some of the best CG animators in the world. It would be a shame for them not to utilize that talent.