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[iamshadowlark]

Don't think his ceiling is close to Manu or Roy
And they had lower ceilings than Kobe or Wade

Martin isn't their long-term plan

I hope

What??

he is pretty much outpacing Manu in every category. And they had the exact same role. Roy, is yet to be seen because they obviously had different minutes/roles.

Unless you mean he is not up to their primes which is kind of silly considering this is his fourth season.

 

[Srsly]

Still has no relevance to anything I posted.

James Harden was the second most efficient offensive player in the league and he led the second unit. You have no clue what you're talking about, whatsoever, as usual.

 

[iamshadowlark]

James Harden was the second most efficient offensive player in the league and he led the second unit. You have no clue what you're talking about, whatsoever, as usual.

?

????????????

?????????????????????????????????????

Terry only guarded Harden once in that sequence.

Dude don't even waste your time. Once people in this thread have decided to under-rate somebody it becomes like talking to someone with their head in the sand.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Dude don't even waste your time. Once people in this thread have decided to under-rate somebody it becomes like talking to someone with their head in the sand.

Ok, so Harden was a second unit guy. Things change when a player starts. I think Harden is great player, and that OKC loses on this deal, but I don't know that he's going to do as well in Houston as he did in OKC.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Ok, so Harden was a second unit guy. Things change when a player starts. I think Harden is great player, and that OKC loses on this deal, but I don't know that he's going to do as well in Houston as he did in OKC.

Yeah it does, but he has alot more going for him than alot of players in the same position. He's a smart player, very skilled and left handed with a shooting touch thats better than most SGs. He'll be fine.

Don't expect him to be able to carry a roster like HOU though.

 

[Dominican Power]

Ok, so Harden was a second unit guy. Things change when a player starts. I think Harden is great player, and that OKC loses on this deal, but I don't know that he's going to do as well in Houston as he did in OKC.

He may not have of started but he always finished games down the stretch, especially when OKC needed a surge of offense.

 

[Blackace]

What??

he is pretty much outpacing Manu in every category. And they had the exact same role. Roy, is yet to be seen because they obviously had different minutes/roles.

Unless you mean he is not up to their primes which is kind of silly considering this is his fourth season.

Considering he can't create shots on his own means he will never be as good as those two

Teams focusing to stop him only will really expose that

 

[Blackace]

He may not have of started but he always finished games down the stretch, especially when OKC needed a surge of offense.

You gameplan and double KD and Westbrook not Harden

 

[Westlo]

Watch Harden get exposed again and the Thunder end up with the 4th pick of the draft.

 

[Black Mamba]

But consider this: Durant and Harden shared the floor for 1,420 minutes last season. Harden played without him for 526 minutes. He averaged 16.6 points per 40 minutes with Durant, and a whopping 34.7 points without him. His true shooting percentage was also better without Durant, jumping from .641 to .686. Harden became much more aggressive off the dribble with Durant out, with his free throw attempts leaping from five per 40 minutes to more than 13. The difference in Harden's numbers with and without Westbrook track closely to those with and without Durant.

Not sure what Harden you guys watched, but his game was best without Durant and WB. When he played with both of them, like in the Finals, he got shut out a bit.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Considering he can't create shots on his own means he will never be as good as those two

Teams focusing to stop him only will really expose that

What? He absolutely can. Thats his main game, he's a iso player. CMON...

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Pairing Lin with an iso player worked super well in New York...

 

[Branduil]

James Harden was the second most efficient offensive player in the league and he led the second unit. You have no clue what you're talking about, whatsoever, as usual.

Just looking at the top 20 Harden lineups last year, he played 998 minutes with both Durant and Westbrook on the floor, 1187 with one of them on the floor, and only 305 minutes without either one.

Not sure what Harden you guys watched, but his game was best without Durant and WB. When he played with both of them, like in the Finals, he got shut out a bit.

What kinds of lineups do you think Harden was facing during times where neither Durant nor Westbrook was in the game?

 

[Westlo]

What kinds of lineups do you think Harden was facing during times where neither Durant nor Westbrook was in the game?

The awesome defense of the likes of Steve Blake.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Just looking at the top 20 Harden lineups last year, he played 998 minutes with both Durant and Westbrook on the floor, 1187 with one of them on the floor, and only 305 minutes without either one.



What kinds of lineups do you think Harden was facing during times where neither Durant nor Westbrook was in the game?

Playing with Westbrook in the game is not really a plus all the time. Neither is KD. This is a weak argument.

Dude will be fine.

 

[ThisWreckage]

OKC will use Martin as trade bait. There are plenty of teams that will trade for him just for his expiring contract.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

OKC will use Martin as trade bait. There are plenty of teams that will trade for him just for his expiring contract.

if the Thunder are trying to keep their cap clear, isn't he valuable to THEM as an expiring contract?

 

[Westlo]

if the Thunder are trying to keep their cap clear, isn't he valuable to THEM as an expiring contract?

Well they wanted to spend up to a certain point, Harden just wouldn't go under it, if they can bring in a piece for the right price.. Martin's gone.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well they wanted to spend up to a certain point, Harden just wouldn't go under it, if they can bring in a piece for the right price.. Martin's gone.

I wonder if they (and the Jazz) would flip Martin and Lamb right to the Jazz for Milsap?

 

[Black Mamba]

if the Thunder are trying to keep their cap clear, isn't he valuable to THEM as an expiring contract?

Keep what cap clear? They had $62 million for 2013 without Harden.

KD, WB, Ibaka, and Perkins are like $52 million or so by themselves.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I wonder if they (and the Jazz) would flip Martin and Lamb right to the Jazz for Milsap?

Please don't entertain deals that would put Kevin Martin in a Jazz uniform. The thought makes me ill.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Well they wanted to spend up to a certain point, Harden just wouldn't go under it, if they can bring in a piece for the right price.. Martin's gone.

From what that last article said, apparently Harden was considering it. Seems like he was gonna cave but then Presti pushed the button.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Please don't entertain deals that would put Kevin Martin in a Jazz uniform. The thought makes me ill.

You wouldn't stomach one year of K-Mart for Lamb?

 

[TylerD]

The Lamb Era begins.

I'll miss you, goofy Harden avatar.

P.S. Shoutout to kado for the quick turnaround!

Haha nice. I welcome Lamb face to the Thunder brotherhood.

Also, holy shit at Presti being such a hardass. I like it but still having Harden would be nice too. The comment about the 1 hr for the decision is crazy. If Presti told me 1 hr I would take him at his word.

--------

The regular season for me is so much more interesting now without Harden. We were going to easily beat a ton of teams and looking at the home schedule there weren't many games I was that excited about. That has changed but I am disappointed that we are taking steps back.

I hope Bestbrook continues to focus on passing the rock like he did in the preseason. You jokers won't have a use for all your precious .GIFs

Let's get this shit started.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Watch Harden get exposed again and the Thunder end up with the 4th pick of the draft.

would that put presti at near mitch status? Cause that would be crazy

 

[linsivvi]

I have a suggestion, NBA-Age should have a theme-song and it should be Call Me Maybe. Its quite the catchy little ditty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Dldlfmr3U

 

[Kogepan]

would that put presti at near mitch status? Cause that would be crazy

They didn't trade their own first round picks. OKC got Toronto's and Dallas''.

 

[diehard]

lottery protected.

 

[Blackace]

What? He absolutely can. Thats his main game, he's a iso player. CMON...

He really can't.. But huff and puff all you want.

Getting tired your scream as loud you can you act

discuss without being douchebag.. I have no problem being told I am wrong so it has nothing with that.. Consider this your warning

 

[Westlo]

lottery protected.

The Raptors pick is Top 3 and 15-30 protected for next season, after that it's Top 2 and 15-30 in 2014 and 2015, 1st pick and 15-30 protected in 2016 and 2017 and finally becomes unprotected in 2018.

Raptors are nowhere near bad enough to get a top3 pick... unless they pull a Chicago... but even being at around the 10th pick level there's a chance the Thunder could luck into the 4th pick....

Would lmao if the pick ended up being pick 3.

 

[Dominican Power]

Pairing Lin with an iso player worked super well in New York...

Harden runs the floor well and can finish.

 

[Darkman M]

What? He absolutely can. Thats his main game, he's a iso player. CMON...

He's a spot up shooter and he can slash, doesn't have a mid range or any type of a post game.

 

[Blackace]

He's a spot up shooter and he can slash, doesn't have a mid range or any type of a post game.

It's been the "knock" on his game since he became a star

 

[Mastodonkey]

He's a spot up shooter and he can slash, doesn't have a mid range or any type of a post game.

Correct.

We'll just have to watch and see how Harden does but it's just another one of the many things I'm looking forward to seeing this year. Made the thunder a lot more interesting as well.

been thinking about how I think the standings are gonna pan out at the end of the year, this is what I got. Come at me.

West

1. Clippers
2. Lakers
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Thunder
6. Jazz
7. Grizzlies
8. Suns

East

1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Celtics
4. Pacers
5. Hawks
6. Bulls
7. 76ers
8. Knicks

 

[Darkman M]

Correct.

We'll just have to watch and see how Harden does but it's just another one of the many things I'm looking forward to seeing this year. Made the thunder a lot more interesting as well.

been thinking about how I think the standings are gonna pan out at the end of the year, this is what I got. Come at me.

West

1. Clippers
2. Lakers
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Thunder
6. Jazz
7. Grizzlies
8. Suns

East

1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Celtics
4. Pacers
5. Hawks
6. Bulls
7. 76ers
8. Knicks

 

[iamshadowlark]

He really can't.. But huff and puff all you want.

Getting tired your scream as loud you can you act

discuss without being douchebag.. I have no problem being told I am wrong so it has nothing with that.. Consider this your warning

What part was me being a douchebag? Im hardly "huffing and puffing", haven't "screamed" once, but whatever. Its pretty much like I said earlier, I won't waste anymore of my time.

He's a spot up shooter and he can slash, doesn't have a mid range or any type of a post game.

He can create off the dribble, has a decent pull-up. He plays within himself and within his role most of the time but he shows his actual game plenty of times. The post up thing isn't really that important at all. He can score.

 

[Blackace]

What part was me being a douchebag? Im hardly "huffing and puffing", haven't "screamed" once, but whatever. Its pretty much like I said earlier, I won't waste anymore of my time.





He can create off the dribble, has a decent pull-up. He plays within himself and within his role most of the time but he shows his actual game plenty of times. The post up thing isn't really that important at all. He can score.

any time people don't agree with you you say stuff like

Dude don't even waste your time. Once people in this thread have decided to under-rate somebody it becomes like talking to someone with their head in the sand.

I don't through the entire thread and pull stuff up..

we love hoops and we are all passionate, and I know stuff gets heated sometimes but really the way you post douche like..

And Harden still can't create for himself all that well. His pull up jumper is where you want him to be..

 

[iamshadowlark]

any time people don't agree with you you say stuff like
I don't through the entire thread and pull stuff up..

we love hoops and we are all passionate, and I know stuff gets heated sometimes but really the way you post douche like..

And Harden still can't create for himself all that well. His pull up jumper is where you want him to be..

No, not really. I've seen other people make that same observation. I know "hive-mind" is banned but still. Happened alot last playoffs too. It is what it is.

Anyway,
Most of his shots he makes for his self. And yes the pullup mid-range jumper is where you want most players, why? Because stats show it is alot more than not a bad, contested, inefficient shot. The fact that he takes so little really ties into what I said about his high iq and great shot selection. He doesn't really settle.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...-metrics-and-the-actual-value-of-james-harden

 

[Blackace]

No, not really. I've seen other people make that same observation. I know "hive-mind" is banned but still. Happened alot last playoffs too. It is what it is.

Anyway,
Most of his shots he makes for his self. And yes the pullup mid-range jumper is where you want most players, why? Because stats show it is alot more than not a bad, contested, inefficient shot. The fact that he takes so little really ties into what I said about his high iq and great shot selection. He doesn't really settle.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...-metrics-and-the-actual-value-of-james-harden

You do say it a lot and if people tend to agree on something than so be it...

What metric don't tell you is that Manu has the handles of a PG and Harden has the handles of a swing man.. He can attack a lot easier with Durant on the floor because players cannot leave him to collapse.. Now I am not shitting on his game.. He is a nice player, but I do not think he will be a good number one..

 

[giri]

He really can't.. But huff and puff all you want.

Getting tired your scream as loud you can you act

discuss without being douchebag.. I have no problem being told I am wrong so it has nothing with that.. Consider this your warning

But being a contrarion is basically all he has.

He's a spot up shooter and he can slash, doesn't have a mid range or any type of a post game.

Thats not true at all.

Harden used to run the PnR with collison and they generally got really good results from it.

Harden has handles, and will be good in the PnR. He hasn't got handles like Rose, but he's good.

He has several facets and styles of game, i'd say comparing him to manu is about accurate, but he might be slightly better at running an offence, not that manu was bad at that at all.

 

[Blackace]

But being a contrarion is basically all he has.



Thats not true at all.

Harden used to run the PnR with collison and they generally got really good results from it.

Harden has handles, and will be good in the PnR. He hasn't got handles like Rose, but he's good.

He has several facets and styles of game, i'd say comparing him to manu is about accurate, but he might be slightly better at running an offence, not that manu was bad at that at all.

Manu, IMO, out handles him by a lot.

I think Harden has decent handles, but not great

 

[theignoramus]

Correct.

We'll just have to watch and see how Harden does but it's just another one of the many things I'm looking forward to seeing this year. Made the thunder a lot more interesting as well.

been thinking about how I think the standings are gonna pan out at the end of the year, this is what I got. Come at me.

West

1. Clippers
2. Lakers
3. Spurs
4. Nuggets
5. Thunder
6. Jazz
7. Grizzlies
8. Suns

East

1. Heat
2. Nets
3. Celtics
4. Pacers
5. Hawks
6. Bulls
7. 76ers
8. Knicks

all they did in the offseason was sign Matt Barnes, a chucker, a guy whose been in the league since Biggie's debut album, and fat, no fucks left to give Lamar Odom. you crazy.

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

Jazz really have a logjam with ball these bigmen. Kanter has impressed me with all the work he's put in. He just made the minutes situation even tougher. Too many players on the Jazz are vying for minutes. man wish the season started today, stuck home in NYC with Hurricane Sandy.

 

[theignoramus]

Those Harden PnR stats are misleading, how often were him and Nick Collison operating against second unit defenders. lets see those PnR stats when he's up against good team defense and guys like Tony Allen and Iggy get thrown at him. his Finals performance wasnt just a function of nerves, the Heat made a point of shutting his ass down.

I think a lot of it's what they're doing,” said Nick Collison. “They're defending him really well.”
Harden entered this championship series averaging 17.6 points in the postseason. He had connected on 45.2 percent of his field-goal attempts.
Against the Heat, Harden has averaged 11.7 points on 40.7 percent shooting. He has registered as many fouls (11) as he has assists.
“He's their most efficient player when you let him get to his whole package,” said Battier. “We just have to keep making him work. Keep him off the foul line and try to keep running him off the 3-point line.”

 

[iamshadowlark]

Those Harden PnR stats are misleading, how often were him and Nick Collison going against second unit defenders.

So is the notion that he is somehow alot worse against starting units.

 

[Mothman91]

When's the new thread going up? Tomorrow is the big day.

 

[RBH]

 

[KingGondo]

oh my god

and I thought there couldn't possibly be a more annoying avatar head than Frauden

fuck me

Sup.

I don't run adblock, but I might need to start if Lamb's grill is going to stick around.

As I said, the Lamb Era has begun. He's here, he's got length and natural athletic ability, get used to it.

Gondo remember when I told you that Bennett would never keep both Ibaka and Harden?

Bennett offered him $55.5 million over 4 years, and gave him as long as he could to agree to the deal. Harden called his bluff on the hour ultimatum, and he got his ass shipped out.

As for his quality--I think his issue will be more of a personality and role thing in Houston. In OKC, he came off the bench with no pressure (and usually had a lead to either consolidate or expand). Instead of playing with Collison, Durant, and YNB, his best teammates are Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin.

Even in college he shied away from being "the man" in big moments, and the sixth man role was perfect for him. He still has virtually no mid-range game, which will be a big problem when defenses are keying their entire defense around stopping him.

I'm still bummed he's gone, but I'm glad we got so much in return for him. Presti can do a lot with those kind of assets.

And I also agree that Maynor won't be on the squad next year. He'll be a RFA, and Reggie Jackson has apparently been progressing well.

 

[Adam Blade]

Everyone wants to leave Jokelahoma unless they get the max.

Can't argue with that now, can you Gondo?

 

[iamshadowlark]

Bennett offered him $55.5 million over 4 years, and gave him as long as he could to agree to the deal. Harden called his bluff on the hour ultimatum, and he got his ass shipped out.

As for his quality--I think his issue will be more of a personality and role thing in Houston. In OKC, he came off the bench with no pressure (and usually had a lead to either consolidate or expand). Instead of playing with Collison, Durant, and YNB, his best teammates are Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin.

Even in college he shied away from being "the man" in big moments, and the sixth man role was perfect for him. He still has virtually no mid-range game, which will be a big problem when defenses are keying their entire defense around stopping him.
I'm still bummed he's gone, but I'm glad we got so much in return for him. Presti can do a lot with those kind of assets.

And I also agree that Maynor won't be on the squad next year. He'll be a RFA, and Reggie Jackson has apparently been progressing well.

I don't get this. He barely takes any midrange shots, how does that equal has no mid-range game? Thats pure false equivalency.

And if it wan't for him showing up in "big moments" we would have had a spurs-heat finals last year.

Everyone wants to leave Jokelahoma unless they get the max.

Can't argue with that now, can you Gondo?

They got KD to sign without an out clause. I cant think of one team that has a superstar under that.