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30 Years SEGA Saturn! HAPPY 30th ANNIVERSARY to this BEAUTIFUL GAMING SYSTEM! iPlaySEGA

StereoVsn

Gold Member
This is all Sega did for this, lol :messenger_neutral:

Ok they actually made several tweets with different media, merch (mostly from others) like albums and stuff but yeah, come on. Some of it can be seen below:

How about remastering or remaking some of the amazing games on the system, SEGA?

What’s that, somebody is at the door and you have to run? :)

Well, I am going to celebrate by playing some of Saturn version of Grandia!
 
Well this thread has got me all nostalgic again, that’s my evening plans sorted…

6pWMc97.jpeg



Fairly small collection, but one I plan to grow (all in DVD style cases, I plan on keeping it that way)…

BJdXMzu.jpeg


u7aTNW3.jpeg
 
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Can't miss posting this, heh. Lobotomy would have probably reached this level had they had the chance to make another game. It's a lot like their Quake demake (inferior to Powerslave but the only of their games to have full 3D enemies etc.) but runs so well despite the huge map & draw distance!


For sure Lobotomy were GODS SEGA really should have bought them when they had cash issues.

To this day love the VDP2 effect of the Saturn



 
Yeah nights in particular is what I see people rave about that controller for. Do many other games take advantage of it as well? The only thing that sucks is that it is a good bit pricier than normal controllers, and I am hesitant on grabbing one if only one game really takes advantage of it.
Love playing Sonic R with the 3D controller. Use the triggers to lean into turns while keeping the analog stick pushed forwards. Only adjust the angle of the stick when coming up to a really tight turn. The game is way harder without it

What a great thread. Gonna play some more Saturn today in front of the fireplace. Need to finish my playthrough of Shining Force III
 
What could have been. The Saturns " tools " situation were way worse than the Xbox. at the end sega was working on some stellar stuff including this.


Some think this was using a helper cart. Could have been but it still would have been crazy to see.

Nah, I don't think SEGA were as bad off as Microsoft because they actually got games to market in their launch year that competed very well with the best PS1 was putting out in '95. VF Remix (which should've been at the May surprise launch as it was apparently ready; I remember Pandemonium Games talking about it in their VF retrospective), VF2, Virtua Cop and Sega Rally just to name some. At a technical level they were on par with games like Tekken, Wipeout, Ridge Racer etc. and in some cases better (VF2 with its high-resolution mode option that Tekken, BAT, and even Tekken 2 lacked).

Microsoft never managed anything like that within the first year of Xbox Series. Halo Infinite looked like crap compared to Returnal and R&C: Rift Apart, or launch PS5 games like Demon's Souls Remake. And they were losing out on most 3P multiplat comparisons, too. At least SEGA got some visually market-leading games out for Saturn by end of '95, they were just too slow to to get SGL out to 3P devs.

EDIT: Looks like RetroGamingUK RetroGamingUK linked the vid about VF Remix.

VF Saturn wasn't ugly and it was launch software made for Nov 1994. People look over and forget how poor launch software been for a lot of systems including the Mega Drive in Japan.

Had SEGA America not pushed ahead with the 32X things would have been very different and IMO SEGA would have beaten the N64 and been a decent number 2, but still miles off the PS1

I think that's realistic. The main reason Saturn failed was because of poor Western adoption; the N64 ate up a lot of what would've been Saturn's Western 3P support, especially for genres like FPS.

IMO SEGA were on an upward trajectory with Mega Drive; had they canned the 32X, not rush Saturn in America and had better API support for 3P out of the gate, they likely would've gotten more serious 3P support for 3D games and hit maybe 45 million lifetime sales.

I don't know if N64 would've seen too much a drop, but might've hit closer to 30 million than 35 million. And I think PS1 would've topped out closer to 80-85 million vs 100 million, due to more competition from Saturn and a mostly-still competitive N64 (the power of Pokemon!).

For sure Lobotomy were GODS SEGA really should have bought them when they had cash issues.

To this day love the VDP2 effect of the Saturn





In hindsight (maybe even noticeable at the time), SEGA picking up Visual Concepts in lieu of Lobotomy might've been one of their biggest mistakes.

On one hand I can understand the need for VC; sports games were massive on Genesis and helped it perform super well in the American market. On the other hand, the sports games were only a major driver for the American market. SEGA needed games with more global appeal and while FPS titles weren't that popular in Japan at the time, they would've had more pull for Dreamcast in Europe than American football, basketball and baseball games.

Visual Concepts would've likely made more sense if SEGA also got them to make a soccer game, but that never happened. SEGA needed to cover weaknesses in their exclusives to address emerging genres during the 5th-generation that mostly skipped Saturn. They did this to some degree with certain 1P titles like Jet Set Radio, Shenmue and Space Channel 5, but they never really got to that with FPS genre. If they had picked up Lobotomy alongside Visual Concepts then that would've been great, but if forced between the two, if I was running SEGA at the time I'd of chosen Lobotomy Software and just take EA up on their deal for sports exclusivity on Dreamcast.

After all, had they taken EA's deal, they maybe would've been able to negotiate on a few other console exclusives (timed or full) from EA that gen, and could've leveraged marketing deals with Madden & other games to push Dreamcast in holiday sales vs. PS2. Meanwhile the money saved on VC could've gone towards Lobotomy and maybe a few other studios like WARP, Game Arts and Treasure (all of whom had extensive history with SEGA systems).

It's just SOOO frustrating to think about a lot of SEGA's business decisions from the '90s, particularly from 32X-onwards. A string of disaster choices on their part. Even so, the systems themselves (well, less so 32X but still) are fantastic with strong libraries. Glad to see systems like Saturn finally getting the respect they've deserved.
 
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Nah, I don't think SEGA were as bad off as Microsoft because they actually got games to market in their launch year that competed very well with the best PS1 was putting out in '95. VF Remix (which should've been at the May surprise launch as it was apparently ready; I remember Pandemonium Games talking about it in their VF retrospective), VF2, Virtua Cop and Sega Rally just to name some. At a technical level they were on par with games like Tekken, Wipeout, Ridge Racer etc. and in some cases better (VF2 with its high-resolution mode option that Tekken, BAT, and even Tekken 2 lacked).

Microsoft never managed anything like that within the first year of Xbox Series. Halo Infinite looked like crap compared to Returnal and R&C: Rift Apart, or launch PS5 games like Demon's Souls Remake. And they were losing out on most 3P multiplat comparisons, too. At least SEGA got some visually market-leading games out for Saturn by end of '95, they were just too slow to to get SGL out to 3P devs.

EDIT: Looks like RetroGamingUK RetroGamingUK linked the vid about VF Remix.



I think that's realistic. The main reason Saturn failed was because of poor Western adoption; the N64 ate up a lot of what would've been Saturn's Western 3P support, especially for genres like FPS.

IMO SEGA were on an upward trajectory with Mega Drive; had they canned the 32X, not rush Saturn in America and had better API support for 3P out of the gate, they likely would've gotten more serious 3P support for 3D games and hit maybe 45 million lifetime sales.

I don't know if N64 would've seen too much a drop, but might've hit closer to 30 million than 35 million. And I think PS1 would've topped out closer to 80-85 million vs 100 million, due to more competition from Saturn and a mostly-still competitive N64 (the power of Pokemon!).



In hindsight (maybe even noticeable at the time), SEGA picking up Visual Concepts in lieu of Lobotomy might've been one of their biggest mistakes.

On one hand I can understand the need for VC; sports games were massive on Genesis and helped it perform super well in the American market. On the other hand, the sports games were only a major driver for the American market. SEGA needed games with more global appeal and while FPS titles weren't that popular in Japan at the time, they would've had more pull for Dreamcast in Europe than American football, basketball and baseball games.

Visual Concepts would've likely made more sense if SEGA also got them to make a soccer game, but that never happened. SEGA needed to cover weaknesses in their exclusives to address emerging genres during the 5th-generation that mostly skipped Saturn. They did this to some degree with certain 1P titles like Jet Set Radio, Shenmue and Space Channel 5, but they never really got to that with FPS genre. If they had picked up Lobotomy alongside Visual Concepts then that would've been great, but if forced between the two, if I was running SEGA at the time I'd of chosen Lobotomy Software and just take EA up on their deal for sports exclusivity on Dreamcast.

After all, had they taken EA's deal, they maybe would've been able to negotiate on a few other console exclusives (timed or full) from EA that gen, and could've leveraged marketing deals with Madden & other games to push Dreamcast in holiday sales vs. PS2. Meanwhile the money saved on VC could've gone towards Lobotomy and maybe a few other studios like WARP, Game Arts and Treasure (all of whom had extensive history with SEGA systems).

It's just SOOO frustrating to think about a lot of SEGA's business decisions from the '90s, particularly from 32X-onwards. A string of disaster choices on their part. Even so, the systems themselves (well, less so 32X but still) are fantastic with strong libraries. Glad to see systems like Saturn finally getting the respect they've deserved.

I think SEGA just focused on the Saturn would have won the battle with the N64 and been a decent 2nd place. SEGA really should have dropped all In-House software support for the Mega Drive in 1994 and moved on to Saturn. Picking up VC made sense but when it was clear Lobotomy had cash flow issues SEGA really should have come in with a cash injection or a full buy out. I think Lobomtmy would have done a far better job with Half Life port on the DC compared to team that handled the DC port.

SEGA also missed the boat with not buying CORE Design when they were looking for cash injection in the mid 90s and it was US Gold of all people who bought them up before EDIOS. After what CORE did on the Mega Drive and Mega CD SEGA should have been straight in there
 
Nah, I don't think SEGA were as bad off as Microsoft because they actually got games to market in their launch year that competed very well with the best PS1 was putting out in '95. VF Remix (which should've been at the May surprise launch as it was apparently ready; I remember Pandemonium Games talking about it in their VF retrospective), VF2, Virtua Cop and Sega Rally just to name some. At a technical level they were on par with games like Tekken, Wipeout, Ridge Racer etc. and in some cases better (VF2 with its high-resolution mode option that Tekken, BAT, and even Tekken 2 lacked).

PlayStation had a far more impressive launch than Saturn with WipEout, Ridge Racer and Tekken having that wow factor that Saturn’s early titles lacked.

However PlayStation then had an almost year long draught in terms of quality titles where as Sega would release…

Virtua Cop
Virtua Fighter 2
Sega Rally
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Guardian Heroes
NiGHTS: into Dreams
Athelete Kings
Sega Worldwide Soccer 97

…most of which were ignored by the mass market. PlayStation wouldn’t get another great exclusive until Resident Evil.
 
PlayStation had a far more impressive launch than Saturn with WipEout, Ridge Racer and Tekken having that wow factor that Saturn’s early titles lacked.

However PlayStation then had an almost year long draught in terms of quality titles where as Sega would release…

Virtua Cop
Virtua Fighter 2
Sega Rally
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Guardian Heroes
NiGHTS: into Dreams
Athelete Kings
Sega Worldwide Soccer 97

…most of which were ignored by the mass market. PlayStation wouldn’t get another great exclusive until Resident Evil.

Resident Evil was March '96, right? So yeah, if so what you're saying might track, at least for Western markets. I'd have to look at Japan exclusives between September '95 and when Resident Evil came out.
 

Alan Wake

Member
The Saturn years was probably my worst period as a gamer. I was in my early teens, a lot of things were going on and most of the games I wanted only turned up on the PlayStation. It was a tough time being a Sega fanboy for sure. Still, I have fond memories of games like Sega Rally, House of the Dead, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil and NiGHTS. I still have my Saturn but it hasn't been used for a long time so I hope it still works. Bought another one with Virtua Cop 1-2 and light guns this year. I use to plug in a retro console every summer and give it a go, this year it was Xbox. The Saturn is next in line. I still have Deep Fear lying around that I want to play.
 
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Resident Evil was March '96, right? So yeah, if so what you're saying might track, at least for Western markets. I'd have to look at Japan exclusives between September '95 and when Resident Evil came out.

August 96 in the UK, looking at the release schedule for the year leading up to that it’s pretty meh.

Wasn’t until late 97 where you could say that PlayStation had a better games library, and even then it was behind in a few genres.
 
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It's just SOOO frustrating to think about a lot of SEGA's business decisions from the '90s, particularly from 32X-onwards. A string of disaster choices on their part. Even so, the systems themselves (well, less so 32X but still) are fantastic with strong libraries. Glad to see systems like Saturn finally getting the respect they've deserved.

Worth sharing...



Sega really shot themselves in their foot what with SoJ and SoA fighting amongst themselves. They also had financial liabilities that were perhaps unavoidable/perhaps not if Saturn had been more successful outside of Japan. And part of the path to success was bringing more long-form experiences to the platform, which Sony realized was what gamers wanted. But that was outside of Sega's strengths, and they continued to focus on arcade experiences because that's what their teams were most comfortable with developing.

Either way, it's been really interesting to find out these past few years what was happening behind the scenes during that era.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
But that was outside of Sega's strengths, and they continued to focus on arcade experiences because that's what their teams were most comfortable with.
Eh, I think SEGA did plenty ace longform games with several RPGs/SRPGs (hell, even Shenmue was going to release on it had it lasted), they just also had the strength of their arcade style quality titles. Which PlayStation probably has more of just because of the size of its library, for example you think SEGA when you think lightgun games but PlayStation got way more. I don't think Saturn lacked in any style of game while it was alive & supported. In Japan at least, as bangers like Grandia, 2+ SMT games, the 2nd Dragon Force and 2 freaking parts of SF3 among tons more never got here.

As a single publisher/developer they didn't have a bad output of longform games. Maybe not enough to carry a system so their arcade games could have used more content because of that (as I said, weird decisions like the complete remaking and revising of Daytona USA instead of just doing more home Sega Rally). Even in that sense they weren't behind the times, Gran Turismo for example came after all their arcade racers. I don't think Sony made many more (maybe published many more) but they had the full support of third parties ensuring an ever increasing library of such games.

We're talking about an era with attach rates like 10:1-15:1 or whatever so the system could realistically keep any region user happy regardless of taste, arcade or longform, but as great releases grew further apart it wasn't in the news (if ever) and people mostly don't buy (systems for) older games.
 
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Fucking love my Saturn. Bought it when used prices were decent, have 2 light guns and virtua cop somewhere.

The image is wobbly though so I need to fix that, which will never happen lol.
 

Crayon

Member
dreamcast and genesis are way better.

I'm not a fan of Dreamcast. The best thing about it to me is that I've seen a complete fighting game collection for DC and I was like a deer in the headlights. It was beautiful lol. I don't even want to talk about that because it turns into a bar fight so fast.

Genesis is great but 2d cartridge games are limited and you don't get as much variety. Really great platformers and rpgs, etc but 32bit consoles opened up so many genres. Or massively evolved them. Genesis had Virtua Racing that gave a legit taste of next-gen but other than that, you've got games on Saturn that you could not even imagine on a genesis. Cockpit simulators have been attempted on a genesis but only done real justice by the 32bit era. The quality and variety of fighting, racing, and shooter games explodes. There are more and complex rpgs. Every existing genre aside from platformers or maybe sports gets buffed. Then things like dead or alive or resident evil that are only possible with Saturn. PC games like crusader, magic carpet, sim city 2k show up in numbers. 32bit was the single biggest leap ever so it's a little tough for the genesis to keep up with that.

Okay now you go.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Reiterating the op's first line, excellent showcases of 3D on Saturn showing it's in the same generation, even if not as good as the PlayStation, rather than primitive as clowns claim, started early with the likes of Tomb Raider, Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, Virtua Cop 1 & 2, Last Bronx or Panzer Dragoon Zwei and continued with games like Grandia, Bulk Slash, Dead or Alive, Sonic R & Jam, Panzer Dragoon Saga and finally the revealed Shenmue (or that Unreal fan made tech demo and MGS on the same engine) showing it was the (natural given its sales) lack of high budget productions stopping it from competing better later. Not to mention many of its better looking 3D games are early titles or by small developers or had an impressively quick turn around from Sega's own studios further proving the lack of effort (again highly reliant on time & budget) by the studios failing to have good results on it. Of course its strength in 2D (often enhanced by 3D), that Sony scoffed at, is always as understated as it was underrated. Even though while 3D was the future we still get ace 2D games 3 decades later showing they still have merit now, never mind then with 3D in its still early steps.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Some CRT goodness and a new Frogbull tech demo (not a fan tbh, on surface level his stuff is cool but tends to lack majorly in animations/camera/control which makes them look primitive, I guess he doesn't have the know how yet - on DC where he's able to rip original animations, it's better).

 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
YabaSanshiro got updated on Windows, after being like 2 years behind the mobile versions, to mark the occasion. As I said previously I prefer other choices, though this one's good for lower spec machines like mobile phones and also does have some big features other emulators don't (yet at least):
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
This was a pretty impressive scene in Grandia, though it's impressive in so many ways like how fleshed out most of the cities in the game are, in full 3D at that rather than as a few pre-rendered screens and the interiors (which are also really cool in this). Spoilers obviously...
 
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