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[Basileus777]

I found this blog post that analyses the stuff about the Five Forts and the Grey Waste... super interesting:
https://maidenvault.wordpress.com/obs-merlings/oily-black-stone-and-merlings-part-ii-seastone/
They think that the Grey Waste could host another tribe of Others, instead of being somehow directly connected to the Lands of Always Winter, and I think that's a better theory:



lol @ "Planetos", I guess it's the fan monicker for the entire world of ASoIaF?

Man, I want to learn more about this stuff so bad...

It's pretty silly to use tectonic plates in arguments about magical phenomena, especially when GRRM has pretty much said that he doesn't think about things like that in his world building.

But I don't think much of the stuff revealed in the World Book is going to play a role in the main series.

I feel like there's a decent chance he can finish by August.

I feel projections like this are pretty hard to make when no one has a solid idea on how much he has left to write, or at what pace he is writing at. Or if he's going to get set back 6 months because he decides to scrap and rewrite a bunch of stuff. Even GRRM himself is really poor at judging these things.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I feel projections like this are pretty hard to make when no one has a solid idea on how much he has left to write, or at what pace he is writing at. Or if he's going to get set back 6 months because he decides to scrap and rewrite a bunch of stuff. Even GRRM himself is really poor at judging these things.

Well, it is hard to make. "Decent chance" might just be me getting too optimistic with it.

Still, he thought originally that he could finish by Halloween last year, and while GRRM can be a poor judge of these things, that at least indicates to me that he didn't think the situation was completely hopeless. Unless the problems he's facing are major structural issues on par with the Meereenese Knot, I think there's at least some room for hope.

But it is completely possible that he'll wind up spending much of this year rewriting things that he was unhappy with and we're stuck waiting another year.

 

[Tubie]

I wonder how much GRRM has told HBO about the ending. Probably not that much, given that the producers of the show are thinking about a reduced number of episodes for the final season. Does not sound like the information he gave them would force them to cover a lot.

GRRM told them the general idea for how things end for each main character, but not how to get there.

Even then, GRRM could always change his mind while writing and change the ending when he actually gets to that part. So we will not know if the show's ending will be similar to the books til the remaining books all come out.

 

[Lothar]

Yeah, 8 books is pretty much a certainty in my eyes. Maybe more.

I think we can see the book this year. While Martin's update in January was certainly not the update people were hoping for, he certainly didn't shut the door on it, but only on it coming out before the season started. He said he had "months left", but that was months ago. And apparently a March release would have been possible if he had finished the book by New Years Eve. So we can see the book turned around and released in under three months from the publishing side.

I feel like there's a decent chance he can finish by August.

As all long term ASOIAF fans should know, Martin always always thinks he's a few months away from finishing.

Check out this blog post from Oct 2006.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/2006/10/17/

"There's nothing else on my schedule until February, however, so for the rest of the year I will be right here, shackled to the computer and pounding the keys. I have half a dozen different projects on my plate, but the big one is A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, and I am going to be pushing hard on that in the weeks and months to come, in hopes of wrapping it up by the end of the year.

Wish me luck."

Blog date where he thinks he'll finish ADWD by end of the year: Oct 17, 2006
ADWD finish date: April 2011

Words are wind.

 

[Aureon]

#TeamWhiteWalkers

Don't forget the usual morbid "he's going to die soon probably" posts. The entitlement is absolutely disgusting.

It's not really entitlement... it's fear.

I take writer deaths pretty harshly (Terry ;_, and would be devastated if GRRM died.
When a still active writer dies, his world dies with him. It's like losing a friend with whom you used to talk to, and didn't finish an important conversation.

Bringing it up to GRRM himself is incredibly insensitive, no one likes being reminded of his own mortality - but talking about it in a place he'll never read? Eh. It's just appreciation and fear.

It can bleed into people who flat out start raging at George for not finishing the books, which is pretty bad. But simple fear? There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

#TeamWhiteWalkers

It's not really entitlement... it's fear.

I take writer deaths pretty harshly (Terry ;_, and would be devastated if GRRM died.
When a still active writer dies, his world dies with him. It's like losing a friend with whom you used to talk to, and didn't finish an important conversation.

Bringing it up to GRRM himself is incredibly insensitive, no one likes being reminded of his own mortality - but talking about it in a place he'll never read? Eh. It's just appreciation and fear.

It can bleed into people who flat out start raging at George for not finishing the books, which is pretty bad. But simple fear? There's nothing wrong with it.

This. It's not fun to think about, and it's extremely rude and disrespectful to the author to bring it up to him, but it's a potential reality we can't deny anymore.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

As all long term ASOIAF fans should know, Martin always always thinks he's a few months away from finishing.

Sure, but he's gotten a lot cagier about this stuff over the years, especially after all of the problems with Dance. He was very cagey with his progress on Winds or estimations of when it would get done until very recently, unlike with Dance where he spent five years thinking that it was almost done.

I think his estimations of progress should always be taken with a heavy grain of salt, but the fact that he's being public about it for the first time in six plus years at least has me thinking it must be fairly close.

 

[Incandenza]

While I do hope he finishes soon I also hope they take their time editing the thing. ADWD's Achilles heel was its editing. Partially GRRM's fault for being stubborn, I know.

 

[Moff]

I think he will finish it but the endings will be heavily influenced by what the TV show does, so i expect some nonsensical plot twist and characters doing 180°s from their previous characterizations

I am super pessimistic about the remaining books, they will either release super late or maybe not at all, not even because of his health but because he is either no longer up to the task or simply lost interest. and even if they release I expect them to be mediocre like AFFC and ADWD.

but if there is one thing I am sure of it's that he will not care about the show at all, he will not write "the books based on the show", never.
I even expect them to be pretty different. not because D&D may change some plots and characters, but because writing is a creative process and if you write something for years or even decades, you just get different ideas and might decides there are better and smarter ways to do something. he might have a cool and better idea for the ending or some detail of the ending 5 years from now, long after the show is done.

 

[Jigorath]

While I do hope he finishes soon I also hope they take their time editing the thing. ADWD's Achilles heel was its editing. Partially GRRM's fault for being stubborn, I know.

I doubt Martin has gotten any less stubborn on the front.

 

[Joyful]

Id say the tv show ending before the books is a good thing. kind of a good way to gauge reactions on what worked, what didnt when it comes down to writing the actual ending in the books.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Id say the tv show ending before the books is a good thing. kind of a good way to gauge reactions on what worked, what didnt when it comes down to writing the actual ending in the books.

I doubt this will change anything. George is gonna write the story he wants to at the end of the day. Fan reactions haven't stopped him before and they certainly won't for the finale.

 

[Basileus777]

While I do hope he finishes soon I also hope they take their time editing the thing. ADWD's Achilles heel was its editing. Partially GRRM's fault for being stubborn, I know.

I doubt it will change. The publisher will have every reason to want to rush it out the door and GRRM isn't going to be any less stubborn about resisting editing changes. We'll get a rushed copy edit on an accelerated schedule like ADWD and probably not much more.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I'm just saying, if we kidnapped George and turned him into a cyborg, not only would he live long enough to finish the books, but he'd probably have the focus to finish them all by the end of the year.

Just...food for thought.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm just saying, if we kidnapped George and turned him into a cyborg, not only would he live long enough to finish the books, but he'd probably have the focus to finish them all by the end of the year.

Just...food for thought.

He'd be a cyborg using word processor software from the mid 80s.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

He'd be a cyborg using word processor software from the mid 80s.

We can make him better.

 

[Plasmid]

Really thinking about doing a reread with the boiled leather order. Really hoping for TWOW to get a release DATE this year.

 

[TheXbox]

I doubt it will change. The publisher will have every reason to want to rush it out the door and GRRM isn't going to be any less stubborn about resisting editing changes. We'll get a rushed copy edit on an accelerated schedule like ADWD and probably not much more.

Most def. I think in that New Years blog post he mentioned that the publisher had some ridiculous schedule once he turned in the manuscript to get the book into stores. Like, a 3 month turnaround. Ain't no editing that bitch.

Not that I care anymore. Just give me the damn book.

 

[Clegg]

I'm just saying, if we kidnapped George and turned him into a cyborg, not only would he live long enough to finish the books, but he'd probably have the focus to finish them all by the end of the year.

Just...food for thought.

Just give him whatever drugs Brandon Sanderson is on.

 

[adamsappel]

Wanting the story I've spent around $150 on to actually have a resolution is entitlement. Good to know.

You got the story you paid for.

Which article is this?

Entitlement Issues...

 

[KahooTs]

Just give him whatever drugs Brandon Sanderson is on.

Quality takes time.

 

[Basileus777]

Quality takes time.

Nah, it's usually a sign of writing problems when things take this long. With GRRM there's actually more of an inverse correlation between the quality of his books and the time he spent writing it. GRRM is a better writer than Sanderson, but it doesn't have much to do with how long he takes.

 

[Puppen]

Wanting the story I've spent around $150 on to actually have a resolution is entitlement. Good to know.

Yes, it is. He doesn't owe you a damn thing. You didn't pay towards a Kickstarter, you paid for the released books. And because someone both asked for it and said thank god I didn't link it, here's the relevant Gaiman article: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

 

[KahooTs]

Nah, it's usually a sign of writing problems when things take this long. With GRRM there's actually more of an inverse correlation between the quality of his books and the time he spent writing it. GRRM is a better writer than Sanderson, but it doesn't have much to do with how long he takes.

I disagree, no-one can churn shit out the pace of Sanderson at the quality, scope and depth of ASOIAF. Going by his stated milestones GRRM has not written Sanderson speed at any point during the ASOIAF series. Not even close. ADWD is of the same quality as the rest of the series.

His problems that cost time are things like the five year gap and Meereen timing and POVs. The sorts of issues that are not like to exist in works only juggling the standard 3 balls.

 

[TwntyOneTwlv]

You got the story you paid for.

Entitlement Issues...

What exactly is wrong with this article? Maybe I'm blinded by my devotion to Neil here but he comes across as very reasonable.

 

[Basileus777]

His problems that cost time are things like the five year gap and Meereen timing and POVs. The sorts of issues that are not like to exist in works only juggling the standard 3 balls.

Exactly, it was severe structurally issues that cost him time. He didn't take forever because he was polishing it, but rather because he ran into a ton of problems. And they didn't go away. And the two books he put out after he started taking 5+ years to write them were the worst of the series. AFFC at least maintained a quality of prose despite its bloat, but ADWD was kind of a poorly patched together mess and far from being a product of years of polish.

What exactly is wrong with this article? Maybe I'm blinded by my devotion to Neil here but he comes across as very reasonable.

The article has been tainted by fanboys throwing it around in inappropriate ways for many years. It's the kind of thing that once you see someone link to it, the conversation is over.

 

[Puppen]

What exactly is wrong with this article? Maybe I'm blinded by my devotion to Neil here but he comes across as very reasonable.

There's nothing wrong with it, angry nerds just don't like being told they need to get over themselves.

 

[Brakke]

Really thinking about doing a reread with the boiled leather order. Really hoping for TWOW to get a release DATE this year.

I did it last year hoping to get out ahead of TWOW dropping this year.

... lol.

Those books are still a mess, however they're ordered.

 

[KahooTs]

Exactly, it was severe structurally issues that cost him time. He didn't take forever because he was polishing it, but rather because he ran into a ton of problems. And they didn't go away. And the two books he put out after he started taking 5+ years to write them were the worst of the series. AFFC at least maintained a quality of prose despite its bloat, but ADWD was kind of a poorly patched together mess and far from being a product of years of polish.

Not at all, ADWD is easily as well written as the rest, much of the best content in the series comes from it, the Fight By Deepwood Motte is better than any other battle, Bran III and the Ghost of Winterfell match anything for ambience, Manderly dialogue, Victarion's comedy. It's not reasonable to expect that he can churn that quality out at Sanderson pace. He never has and no other contemporary fantasy author does (given any length of time really).

The criticisms with ADWD and AFFC stem from a lot of readers being in it for the violent twists like Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding, and those were not provided. And the novels, unlike the first three, offer no resolutions, they're simply unapologetically part of a peice. So Quentyn looks like a waste of time and ADWD gets the blame, when in the scheme of things he'll be the reason the Dornish and Arianne turn to Aegon and push him to fight/start the second dance against Dany.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Not at all, ADWD is easily as well written as the rest, much of the best content in the series comes from it, the Fight By Deepwood Motte is better than any other battle, Bran III and the Ghost of Winterfell match anything for ambience, Manderly dialogue, Victarion's comedy. It's not reasonable to expect that he can churn that quality out at Sanderson pace. He never has and no other contemporary fantasy author does (given any length of time really).

The criticisms with ADWD and AFFC stem from a lot of readers being in it for the violent twists like Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding, and those were not provided. And the novels, unlike the first three, offer no resolutions, they're simply unapologetically part of a peice. So Quentyn looks like a waste of time and ADWD gets the blame, when in the scheme of things he'll be the reason the Dornish and Arianne turn to Aegon and push him to fight/start the second dance against Dany.

I agree on this. A Dance With Dragons stands up there as one of the best in the series for me, right up with A Storm of Swords. Asha and Theon's chapters are some of the best chapters in all of A Song of Ice and Fire. Stannis's entire march is just brutal and fascinating to watch. The Davos chapters are splendid. The whole wall story is great. Barristan's coup and Quentyn's dragon antics were really fascinating. And Tyrion's downward spiral is far more interesting than seeing him just sit around making quips and training dragons or whatever people were hoping for. And Victarion's chapters are just laugh out loud hilarious.

I can say the same for how well written A Feast for Crows was, too. Septon Merribald's broken men monologue is one of the best things Martin has ever written. All of the scenes with Maester Aemon are really strong, especially "I dreamed I was old". Sam's eulogy for Aemon was one of the most genuinely touching moments of the series. The Princess in the Tower was a fascinating chapter to read through. The Kingsmoot was also extraordinarily well written.

I loved those books when I first read them, and I continue to love them on re-reads. I feel like they cut right through to the heart of what makes A Song of Ice and Fire tick.

 

[Basileus777]

Not at all, ADWD is easily as well written as the rest, much of the best content in the series comes from it, the Fight By Deepwood Motte is better than any other battle, Bran III and the Ghost of Winterfell match anything for ambience, Manderly dialogue, Victarion's comedy.

Pacing matters, and the quality of the prose and writing itself in ADWD suffers from a lack of polish and editing. I'd go so far as to say that it felt like a rushed product despite the 6+ years it took to write. You can zero in on a few moments that you took a liking to, but the severe amount of bloat and lack of narrative structure really detracted from the quality of the book.

It's not reasonable to expect that he can churn that quality out at Sanderson pace. He never has and no other contemporary fantasy author does (given any length of time really).

I never said that he could, just that there's little correlation between time spent writing and an improved quality of the product. ADWD did not take 6+ years to write because GRRM was making it the best book he could, but rather because the structure of the series collapsed on him and he was struggling to get through it.

The criticisms with ADWD and AFFC stem from a lot of readers being in it for the violent twists like Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding, and those were not provided. And the novels, unlike the first three, offer no resolutions, they're simply unapologetically part of a peice. So Quentyn looks like a waste of time and ADWD gets the blame, when in the scheme of things he'll be the reason the Dornish and Arianne turn to Aegon and push him to fight/start the second dance against Dany.

This is a misrepresentation of the main criticisms really. ADWD really did not lack for violent twists, it was just a meandering and bloated story with the worst quality of writing in the series. The lack of resolutions can't be hand waived away so easily either, it a real problem in the structure of the book, or rather how the book lacks much of a structure altogether. Justifying Quentyn by talking about what kind of plot device is a rather ineffective way of addressing criticism as well.

 

[Puppen]

This is a misrepresentation of the main criticisms really. ADWD really did not lack for violent twists, it was just a meandering and bloated story with the worst quality of writing in the series. The lack of resolutions can't be hand waived away so easily either, it a real problem in the structure of the book, or rather how the book lacks much of a structure altogether. Justifying Quentyn by talking about what kind of plot device is a rather ineffective way of addressing the criticism as well.

Fuck no. Theon's arc was the best writing of the series and pretty much everything with Stannis was pure gold as far as dialogue is concerned, and the only really meandering and bloated passages were Tyrion, Dany, and Arya. A sizable part of the book but not enough to write off the entire 1k+ pages as that. It was also the best Jon's chapters have ever been, and had a lot of other really cool shit happening on the sidelines like Victarion and Barristan.

 

[Spider from Mars]

I don't remember jack shit about these books because it's been so long since I've read them. When the last book came out, I was bumpin the mixtape of this fresh group called Death Grips during my sophmore year of college and they put 5 fuckin CDs out between then and now and I'll have my masters before the next book hits shelves. C'mon Georgie, quit goofin around.

 

[Basileus777]

Fuck no. Theon's arc was the best writing of the series and pretty much everything with Stannis was pure gold as far as dialogue is concerned, and the only really meandering and bloated passages were Tyrion, Dany, and Arya. A sizable part of the book but not enough to write off the entire 1k+ pages as that. It was also the best Jon's chapters have ever been, and had a lot of other really cool shit happening on the sidelines like Victarion and Barristan.

I'm not claiming that everything was bad or that I hate the book. It's just the worst title in a series with much better overall works in it.

I don't remember jack shit about these books because it's been so long since I've read them. When the last book came out, I was bumpin the mixtape of this fresh group called Death Grips during my sophmore year of college and they put 5 fuckin CDs out between then and now and I'll have my masters before the next book hits shelves. C'mon Georgie, quit goofin around.

Hah. I started reading this series in middle school, now I'm almost 30. Waiting for these books is just a part of life. It'd feel really strange if he actually finished it.

 

[KahooTs]

Pacing matters, and the quality of the prose and writing itself in ADWD suffers from a lack of polish and editing. I'd go so far as to say that it felt like a rushed product despite the 6+ years it took to write. You can zero in on a few moments that you took a liking to, but the severe amount of bloat and lack of narrative structure really detracted from the quality of the book.

I never said that he could, just that there's little correlation between time spent writing and an improved quality of the product. ADWD did not take 6+ years to write because GRRM was making it the best book he could, but rather because the structure of the series collapsed on him and he was struggling to get through it.

This is a misrepresentation of the main criticisms really. ADWD really did not lack for violent twists, it was just a meandering and bloated story with the worst quality of writing in the series. The lack of resolutions can't be hand waived away so easily either, it a real problem in the structure of the book, or rather how the book lacks much of a structure altogether. Justifying Quentyn by talking about what kind of plot device is a rather ineffective way of addressing criticism as well.

There is no dip in the quality of writing, it's some of the best in the series and thus contemporary fantasy. ADWD and AFFC absolutely did lack for shocking main character deaths, everyone should have known and mostly did know Jon was coming back. If you want stand alone novels that offer their own satisfying story conclusions, then you'd best read elsewhere because that is by the author's own admission not what he's doing. It's one story over 7 books. Essentially what you're doing is complaining about bloat when you've not read any of the conclusion to it and assuming there is none.

 

[Brakke]

This is a misrepresentation of the main criticisms really. ADWD really did not lack for violent twists, it was just a meandering and bloated story with the worst quality of writing in the series. The lack of resolutions can't be hand waived away so easily either, it a real problem in the structure of the book, or rather how the book lacks much of a structure altogether. Justifying Quentyn by talking about what kind of plot device is a rather ineffective way of addressing criticism as well.

Yeah. DWD has a bunch of violent twists. They're just twists about characters nobody cares about. They're limp. Even the one that matters, Jon, was pretty much immediately identified as a fake-out by everyone, largely because Feast and Dance cheapened the consequences of violence so much.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Yes, it is. He doesn't owe you a damn thing. You didn't pay towards a Kickstarter, you paid for the released books. And because someone both asked for it and said thank god I didn't link it, here's the relevant Gaiman article: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

Gaiman's whole point is that each book can be considered its own thing, which aDwD epically fails at since the main conflict in the book is never resolved. It's like buying a video game and then at the end finding out that the boss battle is in *another* game that won't be released for another five years.

I don't even care about pointing out how long it takes Martin to write any more. No matter how well its done, we're going to get some kind of ending in 2018. However, I will continue to insist on the right of consumers to bitch when someone who promised to deliver a complete story nearly 20 years ago, and has made tens of millions of dollars off that pitch, fails to do so.

 

[Basileus777]

ADWD and AFFC absolutely did lack for shocking main character deaths, everyone should have known and mostly did know Jon was coming back.

Of course they didn't. I'm not sure why you're even bringing this up. Is this just because of the preconception that some seem to have that people don't like ADWD because not enough crazy stuff happens? Well that's a wrong idea and nothing I've said touches on that.

If you want stand alone novels that offer their own satisfying story conclusions, then you'd best read elsewhere because that is by the author's own admission not what he's doing. It's one story over 7 books. Essentially what you're doing is complaining about bloat when you've not read any of the conclusion to it and assuming there is none

This is not really a good excuse for a book lacking a coherent structure, especially from an author that takes 6 years to write a book. Even books in series that engage in serial storytelling are expected to have some sort of structure to them.

 

[KahooTs]

Of course they didn't. I'm not sure why you're even bringing this up. Is this just because of the preconception that some seem to have that people don't like ADWD because not enough crazy stuff happens? Well that's a wrong idea and nothing I've said touches on that.

No I said it, and it's absolutely true, and for some reason you're trying to disagree when it's blatantly obvious AFFC's and ADWD's have nothing comparable to Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding.

This is not really a good excuse for a book lacking a coherent structure, especially from an author that takes 6 years to write a book. Even books in series that engage in serial storytelling are expected to have some sort of structure to them.

Then you want something the author has no intention of providing, and is pointing out to you is not this. He wants to write a story seven books long and divide it up wherever, you don't want that, that's unfortunate.

 

[Basileus777]

No I said it, and it's absolutely true, and for some reason you're trying to disagree when it's blatantly obvious AFFC's and ADWD's have nothing comparable to Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding.

It's not true. ADWD puts a ton of effort towards its shocking twists. If they aren't as iconic as the ones earlier in the series its because they weren't as well executed.

Then you want something the author has no intention of providing, and is pointing out to you is not this. He wants to write a story seven books long and divide it up wherever, you don't want that, that's unfortunate.

That's not how it works. Books need a structure even in a long series and that critique cannot be hand waived away.

 

[KahooTs]

It's not true. ADWD puts a ton of effort towards its shocking twists. If they aren't as iconic as the ones earlier in the series its because they weren't as well executed.

That's not how it works. Books need a structure even in a long series and that critique cannot be hand waived away.

It's entirely true, ADWD has nothing to compare to Ned's execution or the Red Wedding and it never intended to. It was his intention to lay the ground work in the series that no-one was safe, having achieved that he moved on. But you could end this debate easily by pointing in the direction of ADWD's apparent events that compare with those.

It is how it works with ADWD and ASOIAF, as per the author's own words. You want stand alone novels that form part of a larger series? Then there's plenty of authors out there these days catering to you, but not GRRM in this series. It's something different. Criticise away, as I said it's one of the reasons AFFC and ADWD do get criticised, but know you're only criticising the book for something it was not attempting. I for one am glad for it, I'd rather the completed text not be unduly impacted by being fragmented into stand alone volumes altered to provide immediate satisfaction on their release.

 

[Basileus777]

It's entirely true, ADWD has nothing to compare to Ned's execution or the Red Wedding and it never intended to. It was his intention to lay the ground work in the series that no-one was safe, having achieved that he moved on. But you could end this debate easily by pointing in the direction of ADWD's apparent events that compare with those.

Jon's death is attempting to be that. It just isn't executed well enough to pull it off.

It is how it works with ADWD and ASOIAF, as per the author's own words. You want stand alone novels that form part of a larger series? Then there's plenty of authors out there these days catering to you, but not GRRM in this series. It's something different. Criticise away, as I said it's one of the reasons AFFC and ADWD do get criticised, but know you're only criticising the book for something it was not attempting. I for one am glad for it, I'd rather the completed text not be unduly impacted by being fragmented into stand alone volumes altered to provide immediate satisfaction on their release.

This doesn't really matter. A book is a book and it needs a structure. But we're just going in circles at this point.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

The spoiler rules from the Show Watcher thread:

For the book readers that want to lurk in this thread:
No taunting or teasing:
e.g. "Oh, just wait until you guys see what happens to him next week!!!"
No leading questions:
e.g. "What do you think will happen to this character by the end of the season?"
No comparing the book to the show:
e.g. "Well, that's different than in the book where they..."
Answering questions is fine when the information is readily available from what has aired on the show.
e.g. Q: "Wait, how is Robb related to Ned?" A: "Robb is Ned's son."

I was thinking that it might be prudent to post similar (and more defined) tv spoiler rules in this OP, aimed at show watchers who might try to spoil events for book readers (because we all know it's coming).

Something like:

For the show watchers that want to lurk in this thread:

No taunting or teasing:
e.g. "Oh, just wait until you guys read what happens to him!!!"

No leading questions:
e.g. "What do you think will happen to this character by the end of the series?"

No comparing the show to the book:
e.g. "Well, that's different than in the show where they..."

Thoughts?

 

[Jacob]

It is how it works with ADWD and ASOIAF, as per the author's own words. You want stand alone novels that form part of a larger series? Then there's plenty of authors out there these days catering to you, but not GRRM in this series. It's something different. Criticise away, as I said it's one of the reasons AFFC and ADWD do get criticised, but know you're only criticising the book for something it was not attempting. I for one am glad for it, I'd rather the completed text not be unduly impacted by being fragmented into stand alone volumes altered to provide immediate satisfaction on their release.

It absolutely is how it worked with ASOIAF for the first three novels. The fact that it no longer did with AFFC and ADWD speaks to the well-documented breakdown in Martin's grasp on the story (and the lack of editing) moreso than any deliberate creative choice.

 

[Brakke]

I was thinking that it might be prudent to post similar (and more defined) tv spoiler rules in this OP, aimed at show watchers who might try to spoil events for book readers (because we all know it's coming).

Thoughts?

Don't dig it. I like having this as an All-ASOIAF thread. This thread isn't that likely to bump without book news anyway.

 

[Moff]

Reducing AGOT and ASOS to their shocking death twists is a joke, those books are amazing on top of that.
besides, don't tell me GRRM did not intend jon to be a shocking death, it was just super poorly executed, like the rest of the book.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Don't dig it. I like having this as an All-ASOIAF thread. This thread isn't that likely to bump without book news anyway.

This thread should be book only talk, I agree, but I was saying that there maybe could be rules for show watchers who might find it fun to come in here and tease (and in turn, spoil) book readers after having received similar treatment for the previous 5 seasons of the show's run.

 

[Brakke]

Being a dick is already bannable.

 

[Moff]

somehow I don't see it at all that show watchers would come in here to be dicks like the book readers did in their thread

besides, sometime in the future I might want to compare the show to the books myself here, so I'm all for this being the all-ASOIAF community thread

 

[Purple Cheeto]

What exactly is wrong with this article? Maybe I'm blinded by my devotion to Neil here but he comes across as very reasonable.

It's pretty awful and I love Neil.