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[Jigsaah]

I haven't gotten the xpac, but it's decent if you're hacking at shit. It's meh at best if you're shooting. And I'm being kind when I say meh. That's coming from 40fps(ish) to mid 60's.

hmmm...yea I'm a solo blade build in my current playthrough...feels great.

What are you running?

 

[Black_Stride]

Is it UE5 game? Because if it is, it means that either UE5 is a mess (as we haven't seen a decently running game in UE5 yet) or developers are not that great.

Its Northlight Engine.

They are actually using Mesh Shaders, RayTracing and PathTracing and we are gonna call Remedy NOT great developers?

 

[Senua]

This is the way. Games that push the envelope are part of PC gaming. Definitely jealous of the 4090 bros

 

[Black_Stride]

This game is going to flop hard. I give it less than 3 months and it’ll either be on ps plus or gamepass.

They have an upto 50/50 split on revenue with Epic Games Publishing and the development costs have already been fully covered.
Alan Wake 2 being a benchmark game it is highly highly unlikely to flop.....noting that success/flop for this title likely doesnt match what SquareEnix execs would call a success/flop.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

They are actually using Mesh Shaders, RayTracing and PathTracing and we are gonna call Remedy NOT great developers?

Just because their engine support some features, it does not make them good or bad. The results will speak for themselves.

This game is going to flop hard. I give it less than 3 months and it’ll either be on ps plus or gamepass.

This game is EGS exclusive right?

 

[SmokedMeat]

No one’s going to buy it anyways.

 

[Black_Stride]

Just because their engine support some features, it does not make them good or bad. The results will speak for themselves.


This game is EGS exclusive right?

Remedy?
They develop and maintain their own engine.....said engine uses cutting edge technologies including OpenUSD(tech that Pixar use).....but that doesnt mean they are good or bad?

The guys who made game of the year 2019 Control, the makers of Max Payne and Max Payne 2........we are doubting them now?
They are technical masters at what they do, the fact that Control ran at all on Xbox One is a testament to their talent.
The fact Remedy employees were still patching Control in 2023 and pushing it even further graphically with RT and Volumetrics is next level shit.
You probably need to read/watch some of their GDC talks maybe youll give them some respect, cuz Remedy are one of the best PC devs out there, if theres any company id support its Remedy.

 

[TheRedRiders]

What?

They're citing the reason being Mesh Shaders? This raises more questions than it does answers. Alan Wake 2 is using Unreal Engine 5 right? Nanite doesn't even use Mesh and Primitive Shaders, instead relies it heavily on a its own custom compute shader solution which is faster than Mesh/Primitive Shaders when it comes to rendering micro-polygons.

Secondly, the hardware needed for Mesh Shaders to function has been present in all AMD GPU's since Vega, the necessary changes were made to the geometry engines and command processors in the form of NGG fast path. All AMD documentation supports this. I suspect there may be driver problems with anything pre RDNA 1?

 

[Roni]

I'm not installing EGS just for this game... I've waited 13 years, I'll wait some more.

 

[ChiefDada]

What?

They're citing the reason being Mesh Shaders? This raises more questions than it does answers. Alan Wake 2 is using Unreal Engine 5 right? Nanite doesn't even use Mesh and Primitive Shaders, instead relies it heavily on a its own custom compute shader solution which is faster than Mesh/Primitive Shaders when it comes to rendering micro-polygons.

In original lumen in the land of nanite demo, PS5 primitive shaders were used for large geometry because it was more efficient/faster with hardware. Perhaps it's a similar case here.

 

[intbal]

It's Northlight, not UE5.

 

[Black_Stride]

No one’s going to buy it anyways.

I am!!!

What?

They're citing the reason being Mesh Shaders? This raises more questions than it does answers. Alan Wake 2 is using Unreal Engine 5 right? Nanite doesn't even use Mesh and Primitive Shaders, instead relies it heavily on a its own custom compute shader solution which is faster than Mesh/Primitive Shaders when it comes to rendering micro-polygons.

Secondly, the hardware needed for Mesh Shaders to function has been present in all AMD GPU's since Vega, the necessary changes were made to the geometry engines and command processors in the form of NGG fast path. All AMD documentation supports this. I suspect there may be driver problems with anything pre RDNA 1?

Its not Unreal Engine.
Its using the latest version of NorthLight Engine

Vertex Shaders can work but they dont expect good performance, whereas if you have access to Mesh Shaders your performance will be better.

 

[MikeM]

Damn, I guess the PS5 is outta luck on this with it's RDNA 1 based GPU.

I’m assuming this is sarcasm.

My 5600XT is just three years old. There is absolutely no reason for why i should have to upgrade that soon!

PCMR needs to start showing their superiority with their wallets.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Its not Unreal Engine.
Its using the latest version of NorthLight Engine

Vertex Shaders can work but they dont expect good performance, whereas if you have access to Mesh Shaders your performance will be better.

I misread. Oops. Thanks for clarifying.

But yes, I'm already familiar with Mesh and Primitive Shaders. Sony's first parties have already been making use of Primitive Shaders on PS5. As far as I'm aware, this will be the first 3rd party game to make use of Mesh Shaders and it's good seeing developers embrace one the biggest next-gen features, hopefully more studios follow suit.

 

[demigod]

They have an upto 50/50 split on revenue with Epic Games Publishing and the development costs have already been fully covered.
Alan Wake 2 being a benchmark game it is highly highly unlikely to flop.....noting that success/flop for this title likely doesnt match what SquareEnix execs would call a success/flop.

What do you mean by “benchmark” game? It’ll be deemed a flop if it doesn’t sell well. Digital on consoles and EGS only is going to kill sales. I doubt this title will even break top 5 NPD.

 

[Black_Stride]

What do you mean by “benchmark” game? It’ll be deemed a flop if it doesn’t sell well. Digital on consoles and EGS only is going to kill sales. I doubt this title will even break top 5 NPD.

A game thats used to benchmark hardware the ways Cyberpunk and Control are used to Benchmark GPUs because they throw basically every effect at the hardware.

As for whether the game will flop or not.
What was its budget and what kind of return would constitute success/flop considering development costs have already been fully covered?

 

[Dampf]

A bit late, but called it.

Whatever you do, don't buy a RX 5000 Series GPU. And if you have one, sell it.

Hello, I still come across RX 5000 recommendations on the internet, specifically the 5700XT, because it has a good price to performance ratio. That might be correct, but only in the present and certainly not in the future. Why not? Because this cards architecture, RDNA1, is horribly outdated...

www.neogaf.com

 

[demigod]

A game thats used to benchmark hardware the ways Cyberpunk and Control are used to Benchmark GPUs because they throw basically every effect at the hardware.

As for whether the game will flop or not.
What was its budget and what kind of return would constitute success/flop considering development costs have already been fully covered?

In this day and age, nobody is going to make a game just to benchmark. Who the hell wants to lose money to benchmark? These guys aren’t Crytek. The game is not going to be “Wow Crysis” for years to come.

You don’t need to know the budget on a game if it flops or not. You can gauge it by how many copies it sold vs how many employees and years it took. Sure development costs have been covered by the publisher, where do you think the publisher will get that in return? Look at Callisto Protocol, that game flopped. Who do you think covered the costs?

Wild guess but it probably costed them $50mil to make. Game would probably have to sell 2.5+ mil for Epic to make that back.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wow, first game I can think of that does this in years. It’s a bit like nanite but hardware supported right?

 

[Shadowstar39]

Yeah it could be a while. Hopefully 30 series will run it okish for now. I mean I’m sure it’ll run quite well on a 4070ti, 4080 & 4090 but those are not cards that have a large consumer base I would think. I do hope that these high system requirements, the lack of physical version and its EGS exclusivity don’t cause it to fail sales-wise.

Of course it will. Most people outside of a few enthusiasts, and rich folk, don't have $1000+ gpus. Most people don't have 3060/4060s either as they are or were $400 (which is crazy when you know a 1080 was around $500 ish, unless prices dropped recently? ). The reason 1060s are so common (and amd equiv) is they provided great performance for $200-250.

In fact I'd imagine many are still using 1060 series cards. I'm using a 3060ti, that I was lucky enough to get one before the covid spikes and miner /scalper bot shit storm.

This game is going to do shit on pc. It's not quake 1 2 or 3, not half life 2, doom3 or crysis hype worthy. This isn't a pc exclusive and it's a sequel to a mediocre console game. Plus epic store exclusively which will take out 80-90% of gamers right there alone. Add the other amazing games out this year it ain't doing too well.

 

[Dampf]

My 5600XT is just three years old. There is absolutely no reason for why i should have to upgrade that soon!

Well, that is entirely your fault. It was always known RDNA1 cannot handle DX12 Ultimate features such as mesh shading. Turing, however, can do it and thus will able to run the game, even though it is 4 years old.

 

[Thief1987]

Remedy?
They develop and maintain their own engine.....said engine uses cutting edge technologies including OpenUSD(tech that Pixar use).....but that doesnt mean they are good or bad?

The guys who made game of the year 2019 Control, the makers of Max Payne and Max Payne 2........we are doubting them now?
They are technical masters at what they do, the fact that Control ran at all on Xbox One is a testament to their talent.
The fact Remedy employees were still patching Control in 2023 and pushing it even further graphically with RT and Volumetrics is next level shit.
You probably need to read/watch some of their GDC talks maybe youll give them some respect, cuz Remedy are one of the best PC devs out there, if theres any company id support its Remedy.

We are playing games, not technologies, and they didn't make a single good game since the first Max Payne

 

[kiphalfton]

I'm not installing EGS just for this game... I've waited 13 years, I'll wait some more.

Not really the direction I was expecting the sequel to go in.

That and devs CAN wait too long to release a sequel, and people's interest has fallen off a cliff. Same thing happened with Kingdom Hearts III.

 

[SolidQ]

Well, that is entirely your fault. It was always known RDNA1 cannot handle DX12 Ultimate features such as mesh shading. Turing, however, can do it and thus will able to run the game, even though it is 4 years old.

Twit is now deleted

 

[Kadve]

Well, that is entirely your fault. It was always known RDNA1 cannot handle DX12 Ultimate features such as mesh shading. Turing, however, can do it and thus will able to run the game, even though it is 4 years old.

Never heard about mesh shaders prior to this tbh. Also dont like Nvidia as a company (will never forgive for 3DFX as an example) and dont plan using their GPU:s anytime soon.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

as once said: PC gaming feels like a scam

 

[setoman]

What?

They're citing the reason being Mesh Shaders? This raises more questions than it does answers. Alan Wake 2 is using Unreal Engine 5 right? Nanite doesn't even use Mesh and Primitive Shaders, instead relies it heavily on a its own custom compute shader solution which is faster than Mesh/Primitive Shaders when it comes to rendering micro-polygons.

Secondly, the hardware needed for Mesh Shaders to function has been present in all AMD GPU's since Vega, the necessary changes were made to the geometry engines and command processors in the form of NGG fast path. All AMD documentation supports this. I suspect there may be driver problems with anything pre RDNA 1?

As others have said, they don't use unreal engine and secondly. unreal engine DOES use mesh and primitive shaders for large geometries.

 

[setoman]

I misread. Oops. Thanks for clarifying.

But yes, I'm already familiar with Mesh and Primitive Shaders. Sony's first parties have already been making use of Primitive Shaders on PS5. As far as I'm aware, this will be the first 3rd party game to make use of Mesh Shaders and it's good seeing developers embrace one the biggest next-gen features, hopefully more studios follow suit.

Actually no, not a single non UE5 game has made use of Primitive Shaders or Mesh Shaders.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No problem. Newer games need newer HW. Not all of them but their vision requires a certain HW met. I'm sure it will run on anything unless there's some HW flags built in.

Just saw the bit about mesh shaders and researched. It is what it is.

I'm never too low on the spectrum of PC HW so I'm hardly ever excluded.

 

[phant0m]

I bet people who bought a PS4 in 2020 feel the same way about publishers releasing PS5 only games in 2023.

I can’t help anyone that buys a console 7 years into a generation.

 

[10v12]

Holy shit finally a game using mesh shaders.

 

[Gaiff]

Not sure why the tweets were deleted but I posted screenshots in the OP instead.

 

[hlm666]

HUB recommending rdna1 cards over turing because they would be more future proof or whatever their ass backwards reasoning was, well that turned out to be some fantastic advice. Hardware features actually being important, imagine hardware reviewers not able to fathom that. Hope no one got fucked here by following their advice.

 

[SportsFan581]

Really makes you wonder about the console 60fps modes if you need FSR/DLSS performance just to hit 1080p. Might have to go 30 with this one depending on how things look.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Maybe people should worry about whether the game is actually any good first, before worrying about all the pretty pixels.

..kinda old fashioned view, I know.

 

[Danjin44]

Maybe people should worry about whether the game is actually any good first, before worrying about all the pretty pixels.

..kinda old fashioned view, I know.

Yeah I feel like with this game most people here care much about the graphics first and gameplay is secondary but to me if I'm not enjoying the gameplay then the graphics is not gonna matter much.

 

[demented waffle]

hmmm...yea I'm a solo blade build in my current playthrough...feels great.

What are you running?

Bushido and a bit of headhunter I think. Haven't played much recently.

 

[samoilaaa]

Well, that is entirely your fault. It was always known RDNA1 cannot handle DX12 Ultimate features such as mesh shading. Turing, however, can do it and thus will able to run the game, even though it is 4 years old.

so my 1080 ti wont be able to run this ?

 

[Black_Stride]

In this day and age, nobody is going to make a game just to benchmark. Who the hell wants to lose money to benchmark? These guys aren’t Crytek. The game is not going to be “Wow Crysis” for years to come.

You don’t need to know the budget on a game if it flops or not. You can gauge it by how many copies it sold vs how many employees and years it took. Sure development costs have been covered by the publisher, where do you think the publisher will get that in return? Look at Callisto Protocol, that game flopped. Who do you think covered the costs?

Wild guess but it probably costed them $50mil to make. Game would probably have to sell 2.5+ mil for Epic to make that back.

Nobody is implying or even stating the the game is being made purely as a benchmark, they can just release a benchmark tool if thats what they wanted.
Its still a game, but we cant ignore the visuals of a game, and with the knowledge that it will be a graphical showcase using the latest in graphics technology (lol mesh shaders are from like 2018), its a game thats gonna be used in hardware reviews for years to come, thats basically free marketing for the game.

Everyone with a 4090 will want to atleast check how far they can push the game, people with lower end hardware will want to see how they stack up.
Which is where benchmark games come in.


Control cost them ~30 million.
I would agree with your ~50 million guess, but I would actually put it closer to 40 than to 50.

Control sold somewhere around 3 million units, that generated nearly 100 million euros, Remedy and 505 games considered that a huge success.
So if Alan Wake II has a similar budget and expected sales target, regardless of our opinions, if it breaks into the 2.5-3 million mark.....they will call it a success.

Its a more niche title, but I think word of mouth will get it to its sales target.

Control Has Sold Over 3 Million Copies; Made €92 Million In Revenue

Control has now sold over 3 million copies worldwide and brought in €92 million of revenue for Digital Bros, as per the financial report.

exputer.com

We are playing games, not technologies, and they didn't make a single good game since the first Max Payne

Havent made a good game since Max Payne?
Well thats certainly an opinion.

The technologies talk to a developers talents, yes gameplay developers are needed, story developers are needed, audio/texture/geometry devs etc etc.
But, looking at the game as is......clearly Remedy are talented devs, why this is up for debate is bemusing to me.

 

[PeteBull]

Will be really interesting to see how flagship pascal gpu- that launched in march 2017 for 700$ msrp(ahh those good times of cheap gpu's ;'P) - performs compared to rx 6600xt or 2070super, which on avg are right in the same ballpark of performance currently https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1080-ti.c2877

 

[skit_data]

Remedy once again pushing the boundaries, good to hear.

 

[Black_Stride]

as once said: PC gaming feels like a scam

Unless you built your machine in 2018+ and made sure to get a GPU from Nvidia.

 

[demigod]

Nobody is implying or even stating the the game is being made purely as a benchmark, they can just release a benchmark tool if thats what they wanted.
Its still a game, but we cant ignore the visuals of a game, and with the knowledge that it will be a graphical showcase using the latest in graphics technology (lol mesh shaders are from like 2018), its a game thats gonna be used in hardware reviews for years to come, thats basically free marketing for the game.

Everyone with a 4090 will want to atleast check how far they can push the game, people with lower end hardware will want to see how they stack up.
Which is where benchmark games come in.


Control cost them ~30 million.
I would agree with your ~50 million guess, but I would actually put it closer to 40 than to 50.

Control sold somewhere around 3 million units, that generated nearly 100 million euros, Remedy and 505 games considered that a huge success.
So if Alan Wake II has a similar budget and expected sales target, regardless of our opinions, if it breaks into the 2.5-3 million mark.....they will call it a success.

Its a more niche title, but I think word of mouth will get it to its sales target.

Control Has Sold Over 3 Million Copies; Made €92 Million In Revenue

Control has now sold over 3 million copies worldwide and brought in €92 million of revenue for Digital Bros, as per the financial report.

exputer.com

Havent made a good game since Max Payne?
Well thats certainly an opinion.

The technologies talk to a developers talents, yes gameplay developers are needed, story developers are needed, audio/texture/geometry devs etc etc.
But, looking at the game as is......clearly Remedy are talented devs, why this is up for debate is bemusing to me.

A chunk of Control are from physical and Steam sales which Alan Wake 2 does not have. Alan Wake 1 didn’t even do good until it hit Steam. Goodluck if you think it’ll do 2.5mil sales without Steam and physical.

I bet ya it won’t even hit top 5 NPD.

 

[rofif]

Interesting. 1060 is very popular and still able to play 1080p low games.

 

[rofif]

I'm not installing EGS just for this game... I've waited 13 years, I'll wait some more.

I am getting it on ps5. Maybe I will sail the sea on pc after finishing it on ps5 just to see how bad it runs. I’ve not sailed for at least 10 years now lol so I probably will just watch yt vid describing how badly it runs

 

[rofif]

as once said: PC gaming feels like a scam

Pc gaming is awesome and all but it requires a certain type of masochism to love it.
You need to spend tons of money on hardware and then either play as is which is not rarely optimal or spend 30 minutes reading how to properly cap and vsync 60hz forced games on 120hz gsync tv…. Only to find my own Reddit posts from 2019 when I cared more and answered those questions lol. But hey it applies only to dx11 games or below, dx12 games need other solution so be sure your rtss osd is set up correctly to show it.

Just a miserable example of why I can’t be happy on pc just as is. I always need to spend research time to be perfect. I used to love doing that but it’s been like almost 30 years. A man just want to reduce his ocd and just play sometimes… and for cheaper… and own discs.

Tl:dr pc gaming is great. I am just an ass

 

[amscanner]

We are playing games, not technologies, and they didn't make a single good game since the first Max Payne

Seriously? I guess that you didn't play the Control

 

[Danjin44]

We are playing games, not technologies, and they didn't make a single good game since the first Max Payne

I enjoyed original Alan Wake, it has its flaws but it was fun experience, its my entire reason why I’m planning to buy 2nd game in the first place.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Actually no, not a single non UE5 game has made use of Primitive Shaders or Mesh Shaders.

Incorrect. Here's a quote from an interview with AMD's President of Engineering David Wang, this interview was from very early in the year. It's being translated so the quote may read a little weird.

Since the PS5 GPU is an RDNA-based GPU made by AMD, it is equipped with Primitive Shader, which can be used natively (*from the PS5 SDK). As a result, some PS5-only game titles effectively utilize Primitive Shader. My feeling is that Primitive Shader is used to some extent in first-party titles for PS5, and the number of usage cases exceeds that of Mesh Shader. In comparison, although Mesh Shader has become an industry standard, there seem to be almost no examples of active use of Mesh Shader in recent game works.

https://www-4gamer-net.translate.go...=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

One of the main features of Primitive Shaders is that they can auto convert the existing code into them. Sony's first parties would be foolish not to take advantage as they'd be leaving performance on the table.

I know LeviathanGamer2 mentioned how HFW was making use of them as well, I'm guessing he is basing this of GG's GDC presentation, although I can't seem to find the exact slides.

 

[Black_Stride]

.