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[Cyberpunkd]

If not supporting every graphics card under the sun makes it easier for developers to make better games in a shorter amount of time then I'm all for it. There is a trade off between cutting too much of your audience out and making it easier to develop, but we see Remedy taking multiple steps to cut costs or make development faster (This and going digital only) and I think it's a good experiment.

It was not a problem for decades in PC gaming.

 

[Black_Stride]

A chunk of Control are from physical and Steam sales which Alan Wake 2 does not have. Alan Wake 1 didn’t even do good until it hit Steam. Goodluck if you think it’ll do 2.5mil sales without Steam and physical.

I bet ya it won’t even hit top 5 NPD.

A chunk were from physical sales?
I think their telemetry would disagree with you.
Note that Control release late 2019.

Youve got a joke avatar so I cant even avatar bet you when my Black Swan is looking mean.

But ill bet you it hammers 2 milli in a similar or faster time frame compared to Control, Remedy got alot of goodwill from Control
Control took approx 12 months to get to 2 milli, its GOTY nominations also got it a boost in sales.

Consider what Remedy considers a flop/success:

Quotes from Remedy CEO:
“We don’t quite require the same huge lifetime numbers as many other games with bigger development budgets,” CEO Tero Virtala told Games Industry.

“Therefore, even though Control didn’t have chart-topping sales right from the get go, we are in a good position with steady sales. We always take the long view here.”

Virtala added that launch sales aren’t as important as they used to be for games. Thanks to digital distribution, games now continue to sell over a long period of time.

“Control continues to sell, which is good. It has the proven high-quality and uniqueness, and the word-of-mouth that keeps growing. There is still a big audience out there that hasn’t yet heard of Control. These are all factors that support the longer-term sales,” Virtala said.
"Virtala is happy that Control managed to establish itself as a new IP. For being a mostly self-funded project on a tight budget, and a new IP to top it all off, Control has done pretty well for Remedy"

Control was developed in 3 years with a €30 million budget

Control may not have topped the charts, but Remedy is happy with how the game is selling.

www.vg247.com

 

[demigod]

A chunk were from physical sales?
I think their telemetry would disagree with you.
Note that Control release late 2019.

Youve got a joke avatar so I cant even avatar bet you when my Black Swan is looking mean.

But ill bet you it hammers 2 milli in a similar or faster time frame compared to Control, Remedy got alot of goodwill from Control
Control took approx 12 months to get to 2 milli, its GOTY nominations also got it a boost in sales.

Consider what Remedy considers a flop/success:

Quotes from Remedy CEO:
“We don’t quite require the same huge lifetime numbers as many other games with bigger development budgets,” CEO Tero Virtala told Games Industry.

“Therefore, even though Control didn’t have chart-topping sales right from the get go, we are in a good position with steady sales. We always take the long view here.”

Virtala added that launch sales aren’t as important as they used to be for games. Thanks to digital distribution, games now continue to sell over a long period of time.

“Control continues to sell, which is good. It has the proven high-quality and uniqueness, and the word-of-mouth that keeps growing. There is still a big audience out there that hasn’t yet heard of Control. These are all factors that support the longer-term sales,” Virtala said.
"Virtala is happy that Control managed to establish itself as a new IP. For being a mostly self-funded project on a tight budget, and a new IP to top it all off, Control has done pretty well for Remedy"

Control was developed in 3 years with a €30 million budget

Control may not have topped the charts, but Remedy is happy with how the game is selling.

www.vg247.com

Oh jesus, you don’t know how to read. I can’t take you seriously. Go back and read it again.

 

[Black_Stride]

Oh jesus, you don’t know how to read. I can’t take you seriously. Go back and read it again.

You are telling me I dont know how to read yet refuse to address my points.

Yes I accept theres no Steam and no Physical release.

I postulate that's of no relevance here as I believe Alan Wake 2 will do similar or better numbers in a similar or better time frame than Control, which Remedy and 505 Games considered a success not a flop.

If Control doing 2 million in 12 months is considered a success why would Alan Wake 2 doing the same be then considered a flop?

 

[demigod]

You are telling me I dont know how to read yet refuse to address my points.

Yes I accept theres no Steam and no Physical release.

I postulate that's of no relevance here as I believe Alan Wake 2 will do similar or better numbers in a similar or better time frame than Control, which Remedy and 505 Games considered a success not a flop.

If Control doing 2 million in 12 months is considered a success why would Alan Wake 2 doing the same be then considered a flop?

You did not acknowledge Steam sales which I specifically mentioned until this post. Steam trumps EGS by a mile. Alan Wake 2 will not hit 2mil within a year.

How many copies do you think it’ll sell worldwide or npd in October?

 

[rofif]

Weren't pc gamers back in the day very excited if games pushed tech?
I remembe that Turok1 required 3dfx voodoo1 (I still got it bitch!) and Max Payne1 forced me to upgrade voodoo1 to geforce2. Talk about graphics jump!

 

[lh032]

good thing game is digital, ill wait for the performance review on console before jumping in

 

[winjer]

Such high requirements, no support for older GPUs, and exclusive to the Epic store. This game will probably sell poorly on PC.
Maybe on consoles it might be a bit more successful.

 

[daninthemix]

I can't wait to get the PS5 version, bitch that the internal resolution is 540p, start chanting "we need pro consoles NOW", get my PS5 Pro, wait for the Pro patch for Alan Wake 2, and finally enjoy the game at a decent resolution:

960p internal.

 

[rofif]

good thing game is digital, ill wait for the performance review on console before jumping in

Does it really matter? You would skip the game because it's 480p and not 540p ?
The game will have 30fps mode and probably poorly running performace mode since they already warned that "we made this game for 30fps and somehow got performance mode running).

 

[M1chl]

Good, Control was first DLSS2 game if I am not misremembering. It seems like its not concern of performance, but rather feature set, which is music to my ears.

 

[Skifi28]

I can understand the high requirements for RT and PT, but being so demanding even with them disabled is odd considering we've seen footage and it looks on par with most other stuff this gen.

 

[Ronin_7]

Damn, I guess the PS5 is outta luck on this with it's RDNA 1 based GPU.

Cancelling my pre order on PSN SONY LIED!

 

[lh032]

Does it really matter? You would skip the game because it's 480p and not 540p ?
The game will have 30fps mode and probably poorly running performace mode since they already warned that "we made this game for 30fps and somehow got performance mode running).

depends, if it looks or run like ass, ill skip.

 

[M1chl]

At least that super duper duper mega ultra extra settles the PS5 isn't RDNA 2 debate

It isn't, because Sony took AMD lacking design and made it better, I don't think that having sticker of "RDNA 2" is particularly good thing, given how it perfomrs in new games.

 

[Ronin_7]

It isn't, because Sony took AMD lacking design and made it better, I don't think that having sticker of "RDNA 2" is particularly good thing, given how it perfomrs in new games.

Yes Sony saw AMD shitty ass GPUs compared to Nvidia and sure as hell modified the shit out of it.

Explains why such a more powerful SoC (Series X) performs worst than a less powerful one (Ps5) three years in.

Also explains why Tom has been saying that Ps5 Pro is heavily modified to support 8K and way more advanced Ray Tracing.

We all know AMD GPUs are SHIT at Ray Tracing so Mark Cerny is very likely working overtime as we speak.

 

[Leonidas]

My 5600XT is just three years old. There is absolutely no reason for why i should have to upgrade that soon!

You wouldn't have this issue if you had an RTX 2060 which will be a 5 year old GPU in a few months

 

[rofif]

I mean... holy shit does it look incredible.

depends, if it looks or run like ass, ill skip.

That's a good question. I've not decidec ps5 or pc yet... most likely ps5 because I dont care for troubleshooting and epic.

I think this footage is from ps5. There are dualsense proimpts so maybe

 

[lh032]

I mean... holy shit does it look incredible.

That's a good question. I've not decidec ps5 or pc yet... most likely ps5 because I dont care for troubleshooting and epic.

I think this footage is from ps5. There are dualsense proimpts so maybe

i hope the game looks and runs well on ps5 because im really interested in this game, im just hoping the devs werent lying, so i think its better to watch some actual game footage running on ps5 first.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Why they don’t put an option for 120hz displays? It makes wonders have the game running at 40 fps at higher fidelity… is that hard to implement?

 

[Black_Stride]

You did not acknowledge Steam sales which I specifically mentioned until this post. Steam trumps EGS by a mile. Alan Wake 2 will not hit 2mil within a year.

How many copies do you think it’ll sell worldwide or npd in October?

No idea first month sales.
Ive never even followed NPD.
But by december nextyear they will have a 2Milli post celebrating the success of the game.
Epic dont release revenue per game like 505, but I can all but guarantee the game will have also already earned back its dev costs.

Weren't pc gamers back in the day very excited if games pushed tech?
I remembe that Turok1 required 3dfx voodoo1 (I still got it bitch!) and Max Payne1 forced me to upgrade voodoo1 to geforce2. Talk about graphics jump!

Yep.
And we still do actually, im not sure what peasantry is going on in this thread with people complaining their GPUs from 2016 cant run a cutting edge game.

I can understand the high requirements for RT and PT, but being so demanding even with them disabled is odd considering we've seen footage and it looks on par with most other stuff this gen.

You might want to look up more footage of the game.
The New York sections look so dense with geometry, detail, world clutter and the lighting look absolutely amazing.......im sure the world switching is just RAM packing with both versions of the world existing in RAM at the same time, but its still super cool to look at...........im surprised they are even letting the RTX 2060 base through the door.

 

[Black_Stride]

Why they don’t put an option for 120hz displays? It makes wonders have the game running at 40 fps at higher fidelity… is that hard to implement?

Lock your frame rate to 40.
Theres no need for them to tell you what spec gets to 72fps.....we are PC gamers, we can extrapolate what framerate and settings suit us from the specs between 30, 60 at what resolutions and settings and obviously for people who dont need all the bells and whistles even higher framerates.


Giving us a spec sheet for every framerate possible doesnt make sense in the PC space.

 

[setoman]

Incorrect. Here's a quote from an interview with AMD's President of Engineering David Wang, this interview was from very early in the year. It's being translated so the quote may read a little weird.



https://www-4gamer-net.translate.go...=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

One of the main features of Primitive Shaders is that they can auto convert the existing code into them. Sony's first parties would be foolish not to take advantage as they'd be leaving performance on the table.

I know LeviathanGamer2 mentioned how HFW was making use of them as well, I'm guessing he is basing this of GG's GDC presentation, although I can't seem to find the exact slides.

They are both speculating and doing it badly. There are still no use of primitive shaders or mesh shaders period (outside of UE5 games).
Zero, none. Anyone who says otherwise is simply making things up or doing a "in my feelings" or "its available in the SDK API some games must be using it". That's why you can't confirm ANY of it.

Trust me, I have looked for any actual use of these two tech and i have found none. Neither has digital foundry which also interviews studio devs.
The only one they confirm to be using primitive shader and mesh shader (without using the amplification stage) is Remedy/Alan Wake 2.

 

[TheRedRiders]

They are both speculating and doing it badly. There are still no use of primitive shaders or mesh shaders period (outside of UE5 games).
Zero, none. Anyone who says otherwise is simply making things up or doing a "in my feelings" or "its available in the SDK API some games must be using it". That's why you can't confirm ANY of it.

Trust me, I have looked for any actual use of these two tech and i have found none. Neither has digital foundry which also interviews studio devs.
The only one they confirm to be using primitive shader and mesh shader (without using the amplification stage) is Remedy/Alan Wake 2.

It's a direct quote from the guy who pretty much runs all of AMD's engineering teams, he's not going to randomly speculate. He pretty much flat out confirmed PS5 titles are leveraging Primitive Shaders. This is not some secret sauce feature which is only handled by specialist developers that it has to be so rare.

I don't consider Digital Foundry an authority on this matter either, Alex was straight up ignorant with how Primitive Shaders even functioned on the PS5, it would have been wiser for him to reach to his developer links before speaking on the matter.

EDIT : I did find his wording to be somewhat strange and almost contradictory, I think this is because of Google Translate. I asked ChatGPT (4.0) to give me a translation and it was far more coherent.

The GPU of the PS5, being based on AMD's RDNA architecture, is equipped with a Primitive Shader, and it can be used natively from the PS5's SDK. As a result, there are PS5-exclusive game titles that effectively utilise the Primitive Shader. From my perspective, in PS5 first-party titles, the Primitive Shader is used to a considerable extent, possibly even more than the number of use cases for the Mesh Shader. In contrast, even though the Mesh Shader has become an industry standard, there seem to be very few recent game titles that actively utilize the Mesh Shader.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It isn't, because Sony took AMD lacking design and made it better, I don't think that having sticker of "RDNA 2" is particularly good thing, given how it perfomrs in new games.

The point was people used to argue it didn't hit the feature set for RDNA2 because they didn't mention mesh shaders, but did have a novel Geometry Engine. If Alan Wake 2 runs on it officially, but not on anything without mesh shaders, that more than settles that it was at least the RDNA 2 feature set, plus enhancements.

 

[adamosmaki]

My 5600XT is just three years old. There is absolutely no reason for why i should have to upgrade that soon!

I had one until recently . Played most games at native 1080p high settings 60fps so yeah bit of BS a linear single player game doesnt support RX5000 series Gpus/ Also that 5600xt is much better than what series S has.

 

[Leonidas]

Such high requirements, no support for older GPUs...

5-year old GPUs, which are supported, are pretty old...

 

[JimboJones]

Interested to see how consoles handle this

 

[LordBlodgett]

It was not a problem for decades in PC gaming.

Ehhhh, we are talking about video cards from 2016/2017 not being supported. That's decently old. At some point you have to move on. This has always been the case as well, at some point old hardware is no longer supported.

 

[nkarafo]

Lol, why though?

It's not like these cards don't support DX12 or Vulkan some other requirement. This is worse that the "shader 3" days. it sucked then too but at least there was something.

Also, good riddance.

This has always been the case as well, at some point old hardware is no longer supported.

Yes, because older cards couldn't support some new API or something. What do these "2017" cards lack?

 

[shamoomoo]

Interested to see how consoles handle this.

The are probably at medium settings or a combo of high, medium and low or lower than on their fidelity mode.

 

[Dane]

Damn the 20 series came out in 2018.
And people are complaining a game in late 2023 is asking for 2018 GPUs.

The 7000 Intel CPUs came out basically in 20 frikken 16.

Except that Nvidia, AMD and the pandemic did no favors, to this day its still an issue to have RTX 20xx architecture into an affordable price in comparison to 1060.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Woah, this game supports path tracing? This will be the second game ever to support it, no? The first being cyberpunk.

 

[Leonidas]

Woah, this game supports path tracing? This will be the second game ever to support it, no? The first being cyberpunk.

5th game with official support if you count Quake 2 RTX, Minecraft RTX and Portal RTX

 

[Black_Stride]

Except that Nvidia, AMD and the pandemic did no favors, to this day its still an issue to have RTX 20xx architecture into an affordable price in comparison to 1060.

Bullshit.

RTX 20s were easy to find prepandemic.....RTX30s were hard not only because of pandemic but also cuz of CryptoBoom.
RTX20s werent very efficient for mining which made them easier to find.
But even during the madness RTX30s were findable at MSRP....I got an MSRP RTX3070 which I swapped for an LHR RTX3080.

Even today finding an RTX 2060S, RTX 3060, RTX 4060 or Arc A770 isnt even a challenge.
Note the GTX 1060 was launched at 250 - 300 dollars.
All the above GPUs can be found for the same, so I dont know what you are talking about.

Did people forget how much the GTX 1060 launched for or something?

 

[SHA]

8 years support, sounds reasonable, but the real issue is what happened in these years, the lack of contents that goes toe to toe with technology is the real problem here, it's hard to trust released hardware technology without contents to prove it's worth.

 

[Dane]

Bullshit.

RTX 20s were easy to find prepandemic.....RTX30s were hard not only because of pandemic but also cuz of CryptoBoom.
RTX20s werent very efficient for mining which made them easier to find.
But even during the madness RTX30s were findable at MSRP....I got an MSRP RTX3070 which I swapped for an LHR RTX3080.

Even today finding an RTX 2060S, RTX 3060, RTX 4060 or Arc A770 isnt even a challenge.
Note the GTX 1060 was launched at 250 - 300 dollars.
All the above GPUs can be found for the same, so I dont know what you are talking about.

Did people forget how much the GTX 1060 launched for or something?

RTX 20XX was a literal price increase per perf, a lot of people skipped, including high end hardware owners, it was the 30xx that was more affordable until the pandemic hit hard and only now are affordable again, while the 40xx is also another bed shat moment that few bother.

That means for most people their period is just 12 months for a game, even Crysis could run on Nvidia 6xxx series from three years prior.

 

[Bojji]

Lol, why though?

It's not like these cards don't support DX12 or Vulkan some other requirement. This is worse that the "shader 3" days. it sucked then too but at least there was something.

Also, good riddance.


Yes, because older cards couldn't support some new API or something. What do these "2017" cards lack?

MS fucked up when they called DX12 Ultimate... DX12 Ultimate, it should have been DX13. It changed a lot of things.

DX12 as a whole was a mess from the start:

Some cards support DX11_0 feature level (Kepler)
Some support DX11_1 feature level (first gen GCN)
Some support DX12_0 feature level (R290)
Some support DX12_1 feature level (Maxwell, RDNA1)

And some support DX12_2 feature level - that's DX12 Ultimate, RDNA2 and Turing and newer.

MS fucked up (again) with naming and people are (and will be) confused when game releases that require certain DX feature level support.

 

[Black_Stride]

RTX 20XX was a literal price increase per perf, a lot of people skipped, including high end hardware owners, it was the 30xx that was more affordable until the pandemic hit hard and only now are affordable again, while the 40xx is also another bed shat moment that few bother.

Mate atleast do some research before posting.
The RTX 2060 had a better price/performance ratio than the GTX 1060.

If you got a 16 class card you got brilliant price/performance.


What are you talking about, and before you post make sure you do some research first.

The 3060 is currently the most popular card on Steam.
The 1650 which is of the turing generation too is second.
The 2060 is third.
The 1060 is fourth.
The 3060Ti is what every should have bought.

That means for most people their period is just 12 months for a game, even Crysis could run on Nvidia 6xxx series from three years prior.

 

[Dane]

Mate atleast do some research before posting.
The RTX 2060 had a better price/performance ratio than the GTX 1060.

If you got a 16 class card you got brilliant price/performance.


What are you talking about, and before you post make sure you do some research first.

The 3060 is currently the most popular card on Steam.
The 1650 which is of the turing generation too is second.
The 2060 is third.
The 1060 is fourth.
The 3060Ti is what every should have bought.

The RTX launched costing 100 dollars more than the GTX, people wanted a similar priced card.

And by period i've meant that basically the time they had from buying affordably to the AW2 release was a mere 12 month window, while Crysis at least had three years.

 

[rofif]

5th game with official support if you count Quake 2 RTX, Minecraft RTX and Portal RTX

Metro exodus?

 

[Black_Stride]

The RTX launched costing 100 dollars more than the GTX, people wanted a similar priced card.

And by period i've meant that basically the time they had from buying affordably to the AW2 release was a mere 12 month window, while Crysis at least had three years.

 

[Black_Stride]

Metro exodus?

Nope
Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition only supports RayTracing.
No Path Tracing.

 

[Gaiff]

Metro exodus?

Path traced Metro Exodus would run at 10fps on consoles.

 

[SolidQ]

We all know AMD GPUs are SHIT at Ray Tracing so Mark Cerny is very likely working overtime as we speak.

Architectures approval long time ago and AMD will have nice RT.
Cerny in interview was saying he's didn't assumed, devs will use RT so fast

 

[Dane]

RTX 2060 was 350 bucks at launch

NVIDIA Announces GeForce RTX 2060: Starting At $349, Available January 15th

www.anandtech.com

It was then price slashed to 299 in january 2020, then the pandemic came in and GPUs doubled in price, couple that with Nvidia not helping with the 20xx series pricing since launch, it means that Alan Wake 2 PC reach is going to be far lower than Crysis back in its day.

 

[Black_Stride]

RTX 2060 was 350 bucks at launch

NVIDIA Announces GeForce RTX 2060: Starting At $349, Available January 15th

www.anandtech.com

It was then price slashed to 299 in january 2020, then the pandemic came in and GPUs doubled in price, couple that with Nvidia not helping with the 20xx series pricing since launch, it means that Alan Wake 2 PC reach is going to be far lower than Crysis back in its day.

Whats Crysis got to do with someone being able to find an RTX 2060+ or RX6600+ to play this game?

Whats all this Alan Wake 2 PC reach being lower than Crysis.....who is talking about Crysis?

Im gonna guess English isnt your first language so im sure something is being lost in translation here, because I honestly have no idea what you are talkiinng about.

So lets take it from the top.
Looking at the Steam Hardware Survey......of the most popular cards more are compatible with Alan Wake 2 than not.

So what exactly is the issue here?

 

[Dane]

Whats Crysis got to do with someone being able to find an RTX 2060+ or RX6600+ to play this game?

Whats all this Alan Wake 2 PC reach being lower than Crysis.....who is talking about Crysis?

Im gonna guess English isnt your first language so im sure something is being lost in translation here, because I honestly have no idea what you are talkiinng about.

So lets take it from the top.
Looking at the Steam Hardware Survey......of the most popular cards more are compatible with Alan Wake 2 than not.

So what exactly is the issue here?

Crysis required a Geforce 6000 card series released back in early 2004, the game was released in November 2007, that means most PC gamers could run at least on the low settings, even my shit 7200 GS that was a rebranded 6200 could. Alan Wake 2 on the other hand doesn't get most of them because there was a major three year pricing issue due to Nvidia raising prices and the pandemic making it worse, it only became affordable a year ago, which means that a lot of people still have to move from the GTX to the RTX series because they couldn't afford it until now.

 

[Black_Stride]

Crysis required a Geforce 6000 card series released back in early 2004, the game was released in November 2007, that means most PC gamers could run at least on the low settings, even my shit 7200 GS that was a rebranded 6200 could. Alan Wake 2 on the other hand doesn't get most of them because there was a major three year pricing issue due to Nvidia raising prices and the pandemic making it worse, it only became affordable a year ago, which means that a lot of people still have to move from the GTX to the RTX series.

What are you on about mate?
Who gives a shit about Crysis?

If you want to play Alan Wake 2 pony up sub-300 dollars and get a DX12U GPU done and dusted.
If your GPU doesnt support DX12U....hard luck.



I just showed you the Steam Hardware Survey and it disproves what you are saying.
The most popular GPUs are DX12U compatible so this whole "most people" thing is wrong.

 

[Xyphie]

The Primitive/Mesh Shader timeline is basically this:

2017: AMD launches Vega with primitive shaders, but the feature doesn't work and is never enabled in hardware.
2018: nVidia launches Turing with mesh shaders, which is consequently adopted by both MS and Khronos in DX12U/Vulkan.
2019: AMD launches RDNA1 with working primitive shaders but the feature is now deprecated because mesh shaders is the PC standard. I don't think AMD even has Vulkan/OpenGL extensions for it so you can't even use it.
2020: AMD launches RDNA2 with mesh shader-compliancy. XSX/XSS launches with it's own in-between RDNA1/RDNA2 GPU generation (gfx10.2) featuring mesh shaders. Sony launches PS5 featuring RDNA1+RT GPU using primitive shaders but they can actually be used in Sony's GFX API.