Aliens and UFOs

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Wheeljack539 said:
There will be nothing that ever satisfies any skeptic in terms of pictures.
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False. A skeptic will be satisfied by strong and conclusive evidence. From a discussion point of view, you're poisoning the well and creating a strawman about the terrible unreasonableness of the skeptic, when it's not the skeptic's responsibility to produce evidence that actually demonstrates the validity of the claim.


Don't fault the skeptic for being skeptical. Fault the person who claims extremely extraordinary things whilst utilizing extremely un-extraordinary evidence to back it up.
 
I don't have a problem with skeptics. There's a reason no one is aggressively arguing with midnightAI midnightAI and yet everyone is face palming constantly to Funkmiller.

Midnight is skeptical and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be skeptical that aliens have visited us. I'm pretty positive most of us to some extent are. It's an extraordinary claim. The difference is most of us want a lot of these claims that apparently were backed up in a Scif with the intelligence committee to be details disclosed to the American people like David Grusch wants. We want evidence. All of us want disclosure to happen.

I'm sure Midnight is open to finding out what the flying F is going on right now. Problem with Funkmiller is he's claiming theres no proof despite knowing David Grusch provided classified details to senators for 11 hours and the inspector general with what he knows and insists this investigation THAT WOULD PROVIDE answers is a waste of time.

You want proof but don't want the proof to be presented. Cool..... Be skeptical just make sense while doing it. Being so closed minded that you think it's an impossibility but spending pages arguing with people over is such a massive waste of time.
 
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AcrosstheSea said:
I don't have a problem with skeptics. There's a reason no one is aggressively arguing with midnightAI midnightAI and yet everyone is face palming constantly to Funkmiller.

Midnight is skeptical and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be skeptical that aliens have visited us. I'm pretty positive most of us to some extent are. It's an extraordinary claim. The difference is most of us want a lot of these claims that apparently were backed up in a Scif with the intelligence committee to be details hopefully disclosed to the American people like David Grusch wants. We want evidence. All of us want proof and that's what the investigation into this is all about. Providing the proof in the form of disclosure.

I'm sure Midnight is open to finding out what the flying F is going on right now. Problem with Funkmiller is he's claiming theres no proof despite knowing David Grusch provided senators ( 11 hours!) and the inspector general with what he knows and insists this investigation THAT WOULD PROVIDE some answers is a waste of time. That mentality is infuriating.

You want proof but don't want the proof to be presented. Cool..... Be skeptical just make sense while doing it. Being so closed minded that you think it's an impossibility but spending pages arguing with people over is such a massive waste of time.
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I don't think Funk thinks that way, I think there are two trains of thought here...

1, until undeniable evidence is presented then the existence of extra terrestrial life is unlikely regardless of what people have testified under oath to (which both me and Funkmiller fall under)

2, until undeniable evidence is presented it is likely extra terrestrial life does exist because people have testified under oath to

There is no right or wrong if you fall under either bracket it's just different points of view.

The only real wrong here is if you believe or not without undeniable evidence (in my opinion)
 
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AcrosstheSea said:
I don't have a problem with skeptics. There's a reason no one is aggressively arguing with midnightAI midnightAI and yet everyone is face palming constantly to Funkmiller.

Midnight is skeptical and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be skeptical that aliens have visited us. I'm pretty positive most of us to some extent are. It's an extraordinary claim. The difference is most of us want a lot of these claims that apparently were backed up in a Scif with the intelligence committee to be details disclosed to the American people like David Grusch wants. We want evidence. All of us want disclosure to happen.

I'm sure Midnight is open to finding out what the flying F is going on right now. Problem with Funkmiller is he's claiming theres no proof despite knowing David Grusch provided classified details to senators for 11 hours and the inspector general with what he knows and insists this investigation THAT WOULD PROVIDE answers is a waste of time.

You want proof but don't want the proof to be presented. Cool..... Be skeptical just make sense while doing it. Being so closed minded that you think it's an impossibility but spending pages arguing with people over is such a massive waste of time.
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Exactly. I have no idea what is going on. I know weird things are going on, but I don't know what they mean, and I'm waiting to see how things progress and what evidence comes out. I'm curious about it all. Being a skeptic is a good thing. Attacking people and arguing in bad faith is not.
 
The options are, as I see it

1 - There are UAPs flying around and the hearings, witnesses and task forces are genuine

2 - There are no UAPs flying around and the congress, NASA and Pentagon have lost their minds and are wasting huge amounts of time and money on a delusion

3 - There are no UAPs flying around and the congress, NASA and Pentagon have not lost their minds and are investing huge amounts of time and money for an unknown benefit on false premises

Which one is it? None of the options is exactly comforting.
 
midnightAI said:
I don't think Funk thinks that way, I think there are two trains of thought here...

1, until undeniable evidence is presented then the existence of extra terrestrial life is unlikely regardless of what people have testified under oath to (which both me and Funkmiller fall under)

2, until undeniable evidence is presented it is likely extra terrestrial life does exist because people have testified under oath to

There is no right or wrong if you fall under either bracket it's just different points of view.

The only real wrong here is if you believe or not without undeniable evidence (in my opinion)
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Yeah but no one is claiming to know the answers. He's basically saying no evidence when we are saying bruh.... He presented the evidence to his claims to all the important parties who need it. Let's WAIT and find out what's going on.

He's saying there's no evidence so don't investigate. It's stupid. He has every right to believe what David Grusch is saying is a total lie. Other people just want to make sense of what is being claimed by many reputable people according to Marco Rubio and other senators. That takes time not making declarations without seeing anything.

My question to you midnightAI midnightAI . Do you want David Grusch's claims investigated? Particularly if other witnesses behind closed doors are saying the same thing.
 
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midnightAI said:
I don't think Funk thinks that way, I think there are two trains of thought here...

1, until undeniable evidence is presented then the existence of extra terrestrial life is unlikely regardless of what people have testified under oath to (which both me and Funkmiller fall under)

2, until undeniable evidence is presented it is likely extra terrestrial life does exist because people have testified under oath to

There is no right or wrong if you fall under either bracket it's just different points of view.

The only real wrong here is if you believe or not without undeniable evidence (in my opinion)
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What people are saying is there's some dude with major clearance and trust who is claiming crazy things, and he has apparently brought evidence. That doesn't mean anything necessarily, but it means there should be an investigation. You don't have to claim aliens exist or not definitively right now.

As Carl Sagan asked, "Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?"
 
IlGialloMondadori said:
What people are saying is there's some dude with major clearance and trust who is claiming crazy things, and he has apparently brought evidence. That doesn't mean anything necessarily, but it means there should be an investigation. You don't have to claim aliens exist or not definitively right now.

As Carl Sagan asked, "Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?"
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Thank you. This shouldn't be hard to understand. It's the most reasonable solution. Even if it has nothing to do with NHI then there's a huge concern regardless because extremely advanced tech is around very sensitive military locations around the world.
 
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midnightAI said:
I don't think Funk thinks that way, I think there are two trains of thought here...

1, until undeniable evidence is presented then the existence of extra terrestrial life is unlikely regardless of what people have testified under oath to (which both me and Funkmiller fall under)

2, until undeniable evidence is presented it is likely extra terrestrial life does exist because people have testified under oath to

There is no right or wrong if you fall under either bracket it's just different points of view.

The only real wrong here is if you believe or not without undeniable evidence (in my opinion)
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Those are two trains to nowhere. There is no undeniable evidence for anything here.
 
IlGialloMondadori said:
What people are saying is there's some dude with major clearance and trust who is claiming crazy things, and he has apparently brought evidence. That doesn't mean anything necessarily, but it means there should be an investigation. You don't have to claim aliens exist or not definitively right now.

As Carl Sagan asked, "Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?"
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I've already stated many times, I want to see undeniable proof, can't be that hard huh?

I don't care what anyone says, until proof is shown I'll believe that extra terrestrial life has not visited us due to many factors (mostly scientific)

I won't blindly believe something is true just because someone says so otherwise it's no different to believing in the existence of God. Millions of people believe he exists, according to those people there is proof (The Bible), many politicians, leaders, even some scientists (weirdly) believe God exists but until someone shows me undeniable proof God exists then I believe otherwise, again, due to many factors (mostly scientific)
 
midnightAI said:
I've already stated many times, I want to see undeniable proof, can't be that hard huh?

I don't care what anyone says, until proof is shown I'll believe that extra terrestrial life has not visited us due to many factors (mostly scientific)

I won't blindly believe something is true just because someone says so otherwise it's no different to believing in the existence of God. Millions of people believe he exists, according to those people there is proof (The Bible), many politicians, leaders, even some scientists (weirdly) believe God exists but until someone shows me undeniable proof God exists then I believe otherwise, again, due to many factors (mostly scientific)
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No one is complaining about that for the 90th time.

I genuinely think people are not even reading each other's posts at this point.
 
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AcrosstheSea said:
No one is complaining about that for the 90th time.

I genuinely think people are not even reading each other's posts at this point.
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You said do I want his claims investigated, he's supposedly supplied evidence, let's see the outcome of the evidence of it's undeniable then cool.
 
midnightAI said:
You said do I want his claims investigated, he's supposedly supplied evidence, let's see the outcome of the evidence of it's undeniable then cool.
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Right so you are NOT in the same camp as Funkmiller which is why no one has a problem with your skepticism.

That's all I was trying to say.

We aren't saying hey you better believe in aliens. We are saying let the investigation play out so we can find out what is really going on. You are actually in all of our camp. The only difference is I'm less skeptical.

What Funkmiller is saying was aliens don't exist so this is a waste of time and the investigation shouldn't be happening because there's no evidence ( despite him providing said evidence to the respective parties )
 
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I feel like a bunch of the back-and-forth has been unnecessarily antagonistic or riddled with misunderstandings when people conflate Aliens & UFOs (hey--that's the name of the thread!) or assume that someone else is doing so. I think most everyone agrees they're separate questions:

1) Do UAPs exist?
2) Are UAPs of alien origin?

The first question I thought was already resolved as a "yes", but I'd be curious to hear from people who don't think so. The jury's still out on the second.

Having said that, what even would constitute "undeniable evidence" of UAPs being of alien origin? Because I'm having a hard time thinking of what would convince myself or others.

-Would you need to have tracked a craft all the way from an area beyond where the furthest reported man-made crafts have reached-to-Earth? Who's to say it wasn't a man-made black ops spacecraft?

-Would hearing testimony from a trustworthy figure who knows more about the subject be enough? What proof would they give?

-If you saw a craft with your own eyes land in your front yard with a "Made in Andromeda" sticker slapped on the side, would you be convinced?

If we do eventually get "proof", I think it's still going to come down to each individual's belief system as to whether they buy it.
 
Grildon Tundy said:
I feel like a bunch of the back-and-forth has been unnecessarily antagonistic or riddled with misunderstandings when people conflate Aliens & UFOs (hey--that's the name of the thread!) or assume that someone else is doing so. I think most everyone agrees they're separate questions:

1) Do UAPs exist?
2) Are UAPs of alien origin?

The first question I thought was already resolved as a "yes", but I'd be curious to hear from people who don't think so. The jury's still out on the second.

Having said that, what even would constitute "undeniable evidence" of UAPs being of alien origin? Because I'm having a hard time thinking of what would convince myself or others.

-Would you need to have tracked a craft all the way from an area beyond where the furthest reported man-made crafts have reached-to-Earth? Who's to say it wasn't a man-made black ops spacecraft?

-Would hearing testimony from a trustworthy figure who knows more about the subject be enough? What proof would they give?

-If you saw a craft with your own eyes land in your front yard with a "Made in Andromeda" sticker slapped on the side, would you be convinced?

If we do eventually get "proof", I think it's still going to come down to each individual's belief system as to whether they buy it.
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Number 1 is an absolute yes unless you think the government is covering something up. They've confirmed there's UAP's that they cannot explain....period.

Number 2 is the real mystery. What is the origin of those craft.

Also was there a reverse engineering program
 
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AcrosstheSea said:
Right so you are NOT in the same camp as Funkmiller which is why no one has a problem with your skepticism.

That's all I was trying to say.

We aren't saying hey you better believe in aliens. We are saying let the investigation play out so we can find out what is really going on. You are actually in all of our camp. The only difference is I'm less skeptical.

What Funkmiller is saying was aliens don't exist so this is a waste of time and the investigation shouldn't be happening.
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I mean, I don't want to put words in Funkmillers mouth, but pretty sure he is like me in saying extra terrestrial life is improbable (not impossible), I don't remember him saying your last paragraph (I could be wrong of course and I'm too lazy to go through all posts to check to see if I missed that).

I think the miscommunication on my part is the evidence part... When I say no evidence I mean evidence that had been corroborated, proven with little doubt that we, the public, can see for ourselves that can't be denied (for the most part at least)

The UAP part is of course true, but it just means phenomena that currently can't be explained, that part is obvious, many things can't be explained not just flying objects (like Michael Jackson, definitely non human)
 
midnightAI said:
I've already stated many times, I want to see undeniable proof, can't be that hard huh?

I don't care what anyone says, until proof is shown I'll believe that extra terrestrial life has not visited us due to many factors (mostly scientific)

I won't blindly believe something is true just because someone says so otherwise it's no different to believing in the existence of God. Millions of people believe he exists, according to those people there is proof (The Bible), many politicians, leaders, even some scientists (weirdly) believe God exists but until someone shows me undeniable proof God exists then I believe otherwise, again, due to many factors (mostly scientific)
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I don't think you've read what I wrote. Im not sure where the communication issue is coming in.

I'll repeat: I'm not asking you to believe anything, or have a definitive opinion. It's okay to want proof before believing in extraterrestrial life visiting earth. It's okay you don't believe that.

Let the investigation continue and see what comes out.
 
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IlGialloMondadori said:
I don't think you've read what I wrote. Im not sure where the communication issue is coming in.

I'll repeat: I'm not asking you to believe anything, or have a definitive opinion. It's okay to want proof before believing in extraterrestrial life visiting earth. It's okay you don't believe that.

Let the investigation continue and see what comes out.
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Sorry, my bad, didn't mean to quote you
 
midnightAI said:
The UAP part is of course true, but it just means phenomena that currently can't be explained, that part is obvious, many things can't be explained not just flying objects (like Michael Jackson, definitely non human)
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You keep writing these things as though people don't know what unidentified means, as though it might be something prosaic.

I'll repeat again: part of this is about getting all the data on uaps out. If the data recorded can be studied by scientists and it's found it's a drone, or a light flare on the windshield of an aircraft, or a natural manifestation we don't understand yet, good!
 
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So, any proof yet?
When are these hearings over?
When will the next ones be? Next year? Next next year?
What other incredibly trustworthy military commanders will testify next?
So, any proof yet?
 
IlGialloMondadori said:
You keep writing these things as though people don't know what unidentified means, as though it might be something prosaic.

I'll repeat again: part of this is about getting all the data on uaps out. If the data recorded can be studied by scientists and it's found it's a drone, or a light flare on the windshield of an aircraft, or a natural manifestation we don't understand yet, good!
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Sorry, that was meant in reply to Gildon Tundy who asked a two part question, that was in response to Do UAP's exist

(Quoting and replying on mobile is a bit weird sometimes)
 
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midnightAI said:
I mean, I don't want to put words in Funkmillers mouth, but pretty sure he is like me in saying extra terrestrial life is improbable (not impossible), I don't remember him saying your last paragraph (I could be wrong of course and I'm too lazy to go through all posts to check to see if I missed that).

I think the miscommunication on my part is the evidence part... When I say no evidence I mean evidence that had been corroborated, proven with little doubt that we, the public, can see for ourselves that can't be denied (for the most part at least)

The UAP part is of course true, but it just means phenomena that currently can't be explained, that part is obvious, many things can't be explained not just flying objects (like Michael Jackson, definitely non human)
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He did say that. People have corroborated what he said to the Senate intelligence committee as Marco Rubio implied. He said either this is the biggest story of human history or they have very crazy high level people in government and former government workers.

So yeah we are all on the page outside the small few who just want nothing investigated for some reason. Just gotta be patient and see where this leads.
 
midnightAI said:
I mean, I don't want to put words in Funkmillers mouth, but pretty sure he is like me in saying extra terrestrial life is improbable (not impossible)
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ET life is improbable to a species that can barely travel to its own moon and doesn't understand what fills the vast majority of space(dark matter) and just recently discovered gravity waves, a foundation of physics lol


Seems about right.
 
Romulus said:
ET life is improbable to a species that can barely travel to its own moon and doesn't understand what fills the vast majority of space(dark matter) and just recently discovered gravity waves, a foundation of physics lol


Seems about right.
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Yeh, you're right, I've suddenly changed my mind, they definitely exist, screw physics, forget the size of space, ignore all scientists that say it's improbable, I definitely believe you over all that, consider me a believer

(I forgot I'm not allowed my opinion)

And around and around and around we go.....

(By the way, Einstein theorised that gravity waves existed in the early 1900's, we knew from indirect evidence that they existed in the 1970's, hardly a new revelation, it just took a black hole collision to witness it more recently)

Edit: and just to be clear, when I stated that I meant extra terrestrial life visiting us, not whether life exists elsewhere in the universe, I do believe life exists elsewhere, what that life is I do not know and I apologise if you thought I meant no life exists beyond earth because that is not what I meant at all.
 
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midnightAI said:
Yeh, you're right, I've suddenly changed my mind, they definitely exist, screw physics, forget the size of space, ignore all scientists that say it's improbable, I definitely believe you over all that, consider me a believer

(I forgot I'm not allowed my opinion)

And around and around and around we go.....

(By the way, Einstein theorised that gravity waves existed in the early 1900's, we knew from indirect evidence that they existed in the 1970's, hardly a new revelation, it just took a black hole collision to witness it more recently)

Edit: and just to be clear, when I stated that I meant extra terrestrial life visiting us, not whether life exists elsewhere in the universe, I do believe life exists elsewhere, what that life is I do not know
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Maybe they live here too and have for thousands of years.
Dun Dun Dunnnnnn.

Those oceans are largely unexplored.
 
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Realistically these hearing haven't changed the situation much. Testimonies and ambiguous videos have been the status quo for decades.
People who believe are gonna believe. People who don't aren't gonna get moved until there is an actual UFO/alien reveal.

One problem I have with this hearing is the lack of publically available evidence to back up the claims. Assuming the aerial UAP sightings are real, It still doesn't actually add any weight to his other claims. there's no actual connection between claims as they're all different stories from different people. There is a good chance that some of the stories are bs.I know he says it's classified and he's given evidence to the people, but that evidence could be anything or nothing at all.

That's the weird thing about testifying under oath about second hand details. It gives a lot more fake confidence to stories.

In any case it's another episode of waiting indefinitely.
 
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Raonak said:
Realistically these hearing haven't changed the situation much. Testimonies and ambiguous videos have been the status quo for decades.
People who believe are gonna believe. People who don't aren't gonna get moved until there is an actual UFO/alien reveal.

One problem I have with this hearing is the lack of publically available evidence to back up the claims. Assuming the aerial UAP sightings are real, It still doesn't actually add any weight to his other claims. there's no actual connection between claims as they're all different stories from different people. There is a good chance that some of the stories are bs.I know he says it's classified and he's given evidence to the people, but that evidence could be anything or nothing at all.

That's the weird thing about testifying under oath about second hand details. It gives a lot more fake confidence to stories.

In any case it's another episode of waiting indefinitely.
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Well we know the UAPs are real from the Pentagon itself. Funny enough they've denied this sort of thing for years till it leaked out and they were forced to change the tune. This almost feels like there's an effort going on right now to force the government to spill the beans. Like people are working together to undermine the government to get them to spill it.

The thing is NONE of the hearing is what interests me. Everyone keeps talking about the hearing aspect. Who cares about that? What matters to me is the SCIF conversations that lasted 11 hours detailing locations, names, and apparently answering questions such as if the government made proper contact.

That's the stuff I need. I want the documents that confirm these claims. I want the people involved in these programs. Let's get the ball rolling on the real details.
 
Rentahamster said:
False. A skeptic will be satisfied by strong and conclusive evidence. From a discussion point of view, you're poisoning the well and creating a strawman about the terrible unreasonableness of the skeptic, when it's not the skeptic's responsibility to produce evidence that actually demonstrates the validity of the claim.


Don't fault the skeptic for being skeptical. Fault the person who claims extremely extraordinary things whilst utilizing extremely un-extraordinary evidence to back it up.
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I was referring to the pictures and skeptics. I should have lead with the "In terms of pictures..." rather than end it with that.
 
The hearings were meaningful to me in that, as I understand it, the claims Grusch was making were now being presented in a context where, if he was lying, he will face legal repercussions. That, and the public exposure it's getting. And of course, it's getting the ball rolling on more investigation, too.
 
RaduN said:
So, any proof yet?
When are these hearings over?
When will the next ones be? Next year? Next next year?
What other incredibly trustworthy military commanders will testify next?
So, any proof yet?
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A great deal of documentary evidence is being offered, but since it's classified there are procedural hurdles to get over.

The House Committee requested a SCIF so they could be briefed on evidence, Pentagon stonewalled them. Committee is now appealing to House leadership to form a Select Committee with subpoena powers to press forward.

It's stupid to be dismissive of this. There's a lot of hurdles that need to be crossed before this stuff can reach Congress let alone the public but if we dismiss it before that happens then we never get to find out.
 
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AcrosstheSea said:
Well we know the UAPs are real from the Pentagon itself. Funny enough they've denied this sort of thing for years till it leaked out and they were forced to change the tune. This almost feels like there's an effort going on right now to force the government to spill the beans. Like people are working together to undermine the government to get them to spill it.

The thing is NONE of the hearing is what interests me. Everyone keeps talking about the hearing aspect. Who cares about that? What matters to me is the SCIF conversations that lasted 11 hours detailing locations, names, and apparently answering questions such as if the government made proper contact.

That's the stuff I need. I want the documents that confirm these claims. I want the people involved in these programs. Let's get the ball rolling on the real details.
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Chuck Schumer added an amendment to the Pentagon's budget that declassifies information relating to UFOs. It will almost certainly pass.

Of course if the declassification of the JFK assassination is any indication, it's going to be an ongoing struggle and we're likely to get only select and heavily redacted information, and a lot of missed deadlines. But who knows.
 
BadGlamorousCockroach-size_restricted.gif
 
midnightAI said:
Yeh, you're right, I've suddenly changed my mind, they definitely exist, screw physics, forget the size of space, ignore all scientists that say it's improbable, I definitely believe you over all that, consider me a believer

(I forgot I'm not allowed my opinion)

And around and around and around we go.....

(By the way, Einstein theorised that gravity waves existed in the early 1900's, we knew from indirect evidence that they existed in the 1970's, hardly a new revelation, it just took a black hole collision to witness it more recently)

Edit: and just to be clear, when I stated that I meant extra terrestrial life visiting us, not whether life exists elsewhere in the universe, I do believe life exists elsewhere, what that life is I do not know and I apologise if you thought I meant no life exists beyond earth because that is not what I meant at all.
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The idea of gravity waves was theorized then, that's hardly proof considering that's what your whole point. Concrete proof.

Your opinion is totally fine and might be accurate, its just interesting that we both consider there is life out there, but the species that sucks at space travel lay down all the ground rules of what's possible for space travel. lol.

It's the bizarre mix of ignorance and arrogance and how we refuse to look at how wrong we've been over and over and over again.
 
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There is a lot of talk about small flying spheres in the congress hearing

This is a true story with many witnesses and press reports, a sphere with element 140 and other strange properties was discovered in remains of a brush fire the grounds of their large property in by an American family in 1974

 
Romulus said:
The idea of gravity waves was theorized then, that's hardly proof considering that's what your whole point. Concrete proof.

Your opinion is totally fine and might be accurate, its just interesting that we both consider there is life out there, but the species that sucks at space travel lay down all the ground rules of what's possible for space travel. lol.

It's the bizarre mix of ignorance and arrogance and how we refuse to look at how wrong we've been over and over and over again.
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I dont think we have ever said we know all of the answers and know everything about space travel to even start laying down the rules of space travel, however, we do experiments every day testing theories, looking for new methods, increasing our knowledge and we can only go off the results of those tests as to what 'we' deem as possible at this time.

It isnt arrogance its the not knowing part (yes, scientific ignorance) and we are constantly learning more and more about how everything works through science. And so far theoretically NOTHING can come even close to the speed of light (a large object such as even a drone) using the knowledge we have. Is it possible, yes, is it improbable? using current knowledge, yes.

Its all well and good saying but thats our knowledge not some theoretical extra terrestrial species with knowledge 1 million years beyond our own, yeh, great, and that knowledge is pathetic compared to the mystical space whale which can instantly appear at any place in space time through manipulation of time and space through its blow hole.

Until extra terrestrials appear and share knowledge of how to travel faster than light or bend space time through localised worm holes (or we eventually figure it out ourselves) then we can only go off of what we know through constant theories, experimentation and testing.

And like I said, its not beyond the realms of possibility that we are indeed unique (not saying we are by the way, just that it is possible, it goes both ways this opening you mind thing)

Anyway, keep them coming, very interesting conversation, we usually have these conversations at 2am slightly inebriated.
 
midnightAI said:
And like I said, its not beyond the realms of possibility that we are indeed unique (not saying we are by the way, just that it is possible, it goes both ways this opening you mind thing)
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Yeah, we are completely and utterly in the dark here.
The existence of the universe itself is an absurd concept, a paradox. As far as we know, and common sense tells us, nothing comes out of nothing, yet we all cling to this idea of something coming out of just a little something, or this God that somehow has always been there...out of zip.

I swear the only thing the makes a lick of sense is us actually creating the universe via some time machine, but that's a paradox in itself because how the fuck did it happen the first time!?!

But then again, maybe time is not linear...oh fuck it....i wish these undeniably confirmed aliens will clear things up for us.
 
RaduN said:
Yeah, we are completely and utterly in the dark here.
The existence of the universe itself is an absurd concept, a paradox. As far as we know, and common sense tells us, nothing comes out of nothing, yet we all cling to this idea of something coming out of just a little something, or this God that somehow has always been there...out of zip.

I swear the only thing the makes a lick of sense is us actually creating the universe via some time machine, but that's a paradox in itself because how the fuck did it happen the first time!?!

But then again, maybe time is not linear...oh fuck it....i wish these undeniably confirmed aliens will clear things up for us.
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Yeh, the concept of a singularity is mind bogglingly insane that all matter can exist in a single point with (near?) infinite gravity and density (there was no nothing, it was all created from something, an infinite amount of something)? You have to question how did that happen then? one theory is that all of space is expanding then contracting then expanding again infinitely, but it still has to have began somewhere? (current theory is that it will expand forever, there is no bouncing back and forth therefore the big bang (there was likely no bang) was the very start of it all)

But all of that is just a theory (a pretty good one based on what we know), but unless an actual intelligent being created that in the first place and told us then I doubt we will ever know for sure how it started (dammit religion)

What if it isnt a time machine, what is an ordinary scientist here on earth (we'll call him Arthur) did an experiment and created the singularity, that expanded, solar systems created including our own, we evolve, an ordinary scientist here on earth did an experiment that created a singularity...... (groundhog day on a universal scale and Arthur is a god over and over again)
Edit: oh, and if any movie exec/story writer makes a film/book of the above I want royalties (err, unless someone already had the above idea, but was he called Arthur though? huh?)
 
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EviLore said:
Mm. Will direct you to this post:


A few people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events. A lot of people making extraordinary claims isn't evidence of extraordinary events.

People believe a lot of things, and claim to see things that aren't there all the time. Eyewitness testimony is extremely fallible to the point of near-uselessness and isn't relied on in courts now that we have modern empirical methods.

You're making the logical leap that because there are extraordinary claims being made by a number of people, we should take it seriously. That's not how skepticism works. Present the evidence first, otherwise there's no reason to take it seriously, in the same way that there's no reason to consider thousands of other fantasies without evidence.
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That's crazy you say this when it's biblically and historically documented from ancient civilizations. We're just gonna ignore that too??

How about quotes and scriptures of objects described as "chariots of fire coming down from the heavens" basically written down somewhere in almsot every culture or religion damn near? What about these civilizations always talking about the stars and things they've seen in the sky outside of wha ti mentioned above?

The alignment of the pyramids??cmon bruh. I'm not even gonna touch on how they were built but those exact details like that in that time period is very astonishing and downplayed more than anything.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but it was confirmed to me from someone who works by that department at the pentagon and said everything grusch said is true and to keep and eye on him specifically and that we have several of these crafts in all types of conditions along with the bodies living and non living and left it at that.

I've been harassing them for quite a while and now that cat is coming out the bag so to speak.

Please don't come at me over this, I'm just giving info I heard from a source that I'm friends with and we talk time to time but this caught me off guard after asking about it for so long that when we'd speak, the first thing he'd say to me was "no there's no aliens" and we'd laugh and talk about our lives outside of what we do!
 
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