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[SolidQ]

That very dense chip

https://videocardz.com/pixel/amd-navi-48-rdna4-gpu-has-53-9-billion-transistors-more-than-nvidia-gb203

 

[64gigabyteram]

There still PowerColor Reaper/Sapphire Pulse

my problem is their coolers- they're ugly compared to the reference model and always so large while having the gall to ask more money. Nvidia shrunk back down to 2 slot coolers with the 50 series and yet the vast majority of AIB coolers are oversized still.

I guess i'll look out for those brands when the card comes out.

 

[Gaiff]

This is the price that consumers pay, when there is no competition between companies.
Both Nvidia and TSMC have no proper competition, so they jacked up prices as much as their greed desired.

This. While NVIDIA is certainly a greedy company, TSMC isn't blameless at all. They're the ones jacking up prices across the board because they're by far the best and most effective supplier. Their supply can't even meet the demand, so they ask for even more. There's a reason the US government invested billions in building that Micron plant in Idaho.

 

[Radical_3d]

This is the price that consumers pay, when there is no competition between companies.
Both Nvidia and TSMC have no proper competition, so they jacked up prices as much as their greed desired.

The TSMC situation is specially hellish. By the time the west started to think that maybe it was not a good idea to have all the chip production of the, that we use to literally everything, it was already too late.

 

[SolidQ]

hey're ugly compared to the reference model and always so large while having the gall to ask more money.

Looks fine and like reference most - https://www.powercolor.com/product-detail224.htm
Reaper and pusle usually selling at MSRP + 10-20$

 

[winjer]

The TSMC situation is specially hellish. By the time the west started to think that maybe it was not a good idea to have all the chip production of the, that we use to literally everything, it was already too late.

TSMC is aligned with the US. Taiwan is dependent on the USA for their security.
And TSMC is building new Fabs in the US. There are even rumors that TSMC could buy Intel's Fabs and run them in the US.

The real problem is lack of competition.
And if TSMC gets their hands on Intel's Fabs, it will become even worse.

 

[64gigabyteram]

This. While NVIDIA is certainly a greedy company, TSMC isn't blameless at all. They're the ones jacking up prices across the board because they're by far the best and most effective supplier. Their supply can't even meet the demand, so they ask for even more. There's a reason the US government invested billions in building that Micron plant in Idaho.

I'm honestly starting to wonder what's the point of many of these discussions over semiconductors and fabs

don't get me wrong, i'm sure they're important as they're needed to even make this tech in the first place- but don't these cards usually take like 300~ or so to manufacture on both companies ends?

If AMD wanted to they could release the 9070xt for 449 and get easy marketshare while still making OK margins. And Nvidia could drop their cards to turing pricing and still make a healthy profit on their end too.
Isn't this moreso on Nvidia/AMD than TSMC?

Not very knowledgeable on semiconductors/GPU manufacturing here which is why this is a question.

 

[winjer]

I'm honestly starting to wonder what's the point of many of these discussions over semiconductors and fabs

don't get me wrong, i'm sure they're important as they're needed to even make this tech in the first place- but don't these cards usually take like 300~ or so to manufacture on both companies ends?

If AMD wanted to they could release the 9070xt for 449 and get easy marketshare while still making OK margins. And Nvidia could drop their cards to turing pricing and still make a healthy profit on their end too.
Isn't this moreso on Nvidia/AMD than TSMC?

Not very knowledgeable on semiconductors/GPU manufacturing here which is why this is a question.

The most expensive part in a GPU is the chip. So if wafer prices go up, that means the cost of the chips go up.
And that means the cost of the GPU has to go up.
Even if Nvidia maintained their margin of profit, they would still have to increase prices.

 

[64gigabyteram]

The most expensive part in a GPU is the chip. So if wafer prices go up, that means the cost of the chips go up.
And that means the cost of the GPU has to go up.
Even if Nvidia maintained their margin of profit, they would still have to increase prices.

I'm aware of all that. It's the margin of profit that's the issue here. I doubt that these GPUs actually cost upwards of a thousand dollars for Nvidia to make, but they still charge so much for them. Whatever TSMC charges Nvidia is probably not that crazy considering how much cheaper a lot of other general tech products are by comparison- Iphones are still 800 bucks even despite TSMCs monopoly.

 

[FingerBang]

I'm aware of all that. It's the margin of profit that's the issue here. I doubt that these GPUs actually cost upwards of a thousand dollars for Nvidia to make, but they still charge so much for them. Whatever TSMC charges Nvidia is probably not that crazy considering how much cheaper a lot of other general tech products are by comparison- Iphones are still 800 bucks even despite TSMCs monopoly.

It's a bit more complicated than that. You can't look at the price of the chip AMD is paying and just assume what the margins are.

On that card AMD (or Nvidia and their AIB partners) needs to account for:

The cost of the materials (card and the box it comes in)
Logistics
R&D
The alternative uses of that chip, in this case, AI

Greed is not a thing in economics. A price is a balancing act. When something is priced too low (based on the demand), the cost will go up somehow. That's how scalpers can profit on things. If something is priced too high, it will not move and sellers might drop it altogether.

A fixed MSRP is a bet, because production doesn't usually follow demand (not many companies can produce more or less based on the demand. Good luck getting more chips from TSMC tomorrow.) so some products are impossible to find at MSRP until eventually they are.

The alternative to scarcity is a higher price. Companies could do it, but would look awful on them. So they let the scalpers do "the market".