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[Spyxos]

No because there's no way they put that amount of money in that game. The real amount that was used to for the actual game is unknown. The rest of the cash is probably sitting in a tax haven.

You could probably calculate it relatively easily. How many studios/employees do they have? How much money do they burn in a year? I saw these calculations somewhere.

The sad thing is that in that time I have completely upgraded my computer 3 times and Star Citzizen is still unplayable for me.

 

[Nautilus]

This is a scam. A well intentioned scam, but a scam nonetheless. People should already have gotten that through their skulls.

Plus, if you really wanna see this as a game and not a scam, the game launched a long time ago. Once the game was put into alpha and players were given access to it, that's when the game was officially launched. The updates, implementations and bug fixes the scam gets is no different on how a GAAS game works, and the "funds" the game amasses is no different than the microtransactions found inside games nowadays.

 

[diffusionx]

That's bullshit. Duke nukem forever only cost like 10-15 million for their hundreds of years of Broussard Odin sleep.

That has nothing to do with it. The point is the game takes so long to make that the devs have to go back and remake content they already made to bring it in line with the new stuff. This just puts them farther behind. By the time that is done they have to start over because the oldest stuff in the game is now outdated compared to the stuff they just made. It never ends.

You can't have a game that is state of the art graphically and also takes forever to make. Something has to give. At least it does if you don't have perpetual funding from cultist fans.

This is a scam. A well intentioned scam, but a scam nonetheless. People should already have gotten that through their skulls.

Plus, if you really wanna see this as a game and not a scam, the game launched a long time ago. Once the game was put into alpha and players were given access to it, that's when the game was officially launched. The updates, implementations and bug fixes the scam gets is no different on how a GAAS game works, and the "funds" the game amasses is no different than the microtransactions found inside games nowadays.

A lot of people initially funded this because the pitch was a new Wing Commander like game. Then Roberts came in like Lyle Lanley and said he could also make some perpetual universe boondoggle and IIRC it was some stupid Kickstarter poll that changed the entire direction of it. Now 10 years later the WC-like game is nowhere in sight. So they really have not delivered the game.

 

[AJUMP23]

I just want Squadron 42. That is all I have ever wanted. That whole thing is filmed. Just finish that single player experience.


I wonder how much Chris has paid himself.

 

[Nautilus]

That has nothing to do with it. The point is the game takes so long to make that the devs have to go back and remake content they already made to bring it in line with the new stuff. This just puts them farther behind. By the time that is done they have to start over because the oldest stuff in the game is now outdated compared to the stuff they just made. It never ends.

You can't have a game that is state of the art graphically and also takes forever to make. Something has to give. At least it does if you don't have perpetual funding from cultist fans.



A lot of people initially funded this because the pitch was a new Wing Commander like game. Then Roberts came in like Lyle Lanley and said he could also make some perpetual universe boondoggle and IIRC it was some stupid Kickstarter poll that changed the entire direction of it. Now 10 years later the WC-like game is nowhere in sight. So they really have not delivered the game.

What I meant is, wether this was planned beforehand or not, the constant updates, the constant overpromise and never reaching the goal IS the game. That is a scam in my book of course, but at this time it is 100% clear that the business model of the game is to eternally the carrot in front of people to make them fork over money, which is not reinvested in the game but rather is the profits they make it from the game.

And if by some unholy chance the development reach where the carrot once stood, they will just push the carrot somewhere else so that people keep "investing" in the game. And for who didn't notice yet, THAT'S the game. Star Citizen will be eternally locked in this cycle of constantly updating and moving goalposts, and overpromising, they will never "officially launch".

So to answer your question: Its not a question that they didn't deliver yet. Its a matter that they will never deliver.Because whatever Star Citizen was at the beginning, its a Wing Commander game anymore, its a GAAS-like game in which the whole point of the game and the business model is to eternally being headed to that finish line and never reaching it, because it depends on feeding off people's hopes and imagination. And THAT'S the real game that Star Citizen developed.

 

[Lasha]

I don't even know if there is any feature left for them to even market at this point that Starfield or No Man Sky don't do better.

Starfield not being online might be irrelevant as that could literally be 1 element they work on in some sequel and it would already be closer to being a real thing then this. At lot of what Star Citizen does well, Starfield will eventually do, its such an obvious progression its not even funny.

Go from a smaller ship to some mothership....that sounds like some fucking DLC for Starfield or in Starfield 2.

Online play regarding trading items, DLC expansion or in Starfield 2.

I just don't know where Star Citizen goes from here tbh, a better team was able to do the thing they attempted in less time and half the fucking money, they basically gave that whole idea for free and they could have made more money if that thing was actually fucking REAL as a final thing, vs beta for life type thing.


Look at GTA V right now in regards to its online.

Starfield puts some online DLC type thing where you can trade ships, dock other people's ships in some PVP zone area or something, I just don't now how Star Citizen survives a release with a game by such a trusted developer

Why do you think Starfield is a substitute for Star Citizen?

 

[Nautilus]

I just want Squadron 42. That is all I have ever wanted. That whole thing is filmed. Just finish that single player experience.


I wonder how much Chris has paid himself.

Hundreds of million. I'm 99,99% sure that they didn't use a fraction of that "development" money.

Unless he was already filthy rich(And even then), nobody lives off of passion forever. There has to be some reward for any endevour.

 

[kyussman]

Does it feel like a 600m production when you play it because I've not played it.

 

[AJUMP23]

Hundreds of million. I'm 99,99% sure that they didn't use a fraction of that "development" money.

Unless he was already filthy rich(And even then), nobody lives off of passion forever. There has to be some reward for any endevour.

He was already well off, he sold his company Digital Anvil years ago to MS. Then worked as a producer in Hollywood.

 

[Nautilus]

He was already well off, he sold his company Digital Anvil years ago to MS. Then worked as a producer in Hollywood.

Eh, depends on how well off he was, and the more you have, the more expenses you also have. Unless he is great managing his money(Heard he has at least a yatch, so I don't see him being conservative with his money), I doubt he really "reinvested" all that money into the game.

Usually people only want to get richer, even when they are already rich. And given Scam Citizen's history, that only makes it more plausable.

 

[AJUMP23]

HIs wife Sandy is the PR person for Star Citizen. I don't want to think he stole money. But I just think the project overperformed on fund raising, and fundamentally changed the scope. Money was raised on his reputation. But the fact the Single player isn't out is so weird.

 

[BootsLoader]

Recently I watched a DF video about MS Showcase, they mentioned Star Citizen while talking about Starfield. Oh my, what a shitshow Star Citizen is. Once they entered a crowded area the frames dropped to the floor, it was a stutter mess. I remember a friend of mine, some years ago backed the project and was talking to me about it all day and night and how it is beyond anything ever made and bs like that.
I highly doubt that this game will ever release.

 

[Nautilus]

HIs wife Sandy is the PR person for Star Citizen. I don't want to think he stole money. But I just think the project overperformed on fund raising, and fundamentally changed the scope. Money was raised on his reputation. But the fact the Single player isn't out is so weird.

Why his wife being the PR person would make him more trustworthy? Would not having a family member in a high position make it easier to cover things up?

And even then, he wouldn't have "stolen" the money. He, as the CEO/owner, would just justify the money taken from the "investment pool" for him as a end of the year bonus as good performance in that year or something like that. 20 million this year, 40 million that year. It would all be perfectly legal, just like Multi Level Marketing companies are tecnically legal but in practice are pyramid schemes and thus scams.

Is the Star Citizen company publicly traded or private? If its private, he can do whatever the hell he wants with the money amd be all legal.

 

[AJUMP23]

Why his wife being the PR person would make him more trustworthy? Would not having a family member in a high position make it easier to cover things up?

And even then, he wouldn't have "stolen" the money. He, as the CEO/owner, would just justify the money taken from the "investment pool" for him as a end of the year bonus as good performance in that year or something like that. 20 million this year, 40 million that year. It would all be perfectly legal, just like Multi Level Marketing companies are tecnically legal but in practice are pyramid schemes and thus scams.

Is the Star Citizen company publicly traded or private? If its private, he can do whatever the hell he wants with the money amd be all legal.

I am not trying to say it makes him more trust worthy. It makes it more shady. And I am sure it is a private company. His brother runs the division in Germany I believe.

 

[SportsFan581]

I enjoy star citizen. Theres nothing like it when it works. Working is never guaranteed with 90% of ship losses being due to server bugs or other nonsense. I think the game has a few years left before funding collapses. The game can't afford to release because release means losing its primary revenue stream

People laugh at that, but realistically why would they ever release the game? Almost guaranteed to be less lucrative. I just have a hard time believing there are enough idiots in the world to back this to this level purely for the game itself. So, I tend to think that the game aspect is just cover. Nothing at all to substantiate that with, it's just my own conspiracy theory.

The alternative option would be that people actually felt that a video game ship was worth $50k and that is just too much for me to process.

 

[Nautilus]

I am not trying to say it makes him more trust worthy. It makes it more shady. And I am sure it is a private company. His brother runs the division in Germany I believe.

If its private, he probably can do whatever the hell he wants with the money, especially since most of the money he got from fans were not exactly given away for free, but fans bought the ships and whatnot with it, even if they were overpriced(to say the least).

I'm not an expert in that area or anything. But even if its clearly a scam, it must probably also be a legal one, much like Multi Level Marketing companies. The only way to battle this is for people to stop giving them money, and thus forcing them to get something finished.

 

[Topher]

I'm not a backer but I did purchase the base game ($45) a few years ago. I jump in every now and then. There is a good game in there somewhere, but seems obvious to me that they are milking the crowd funding for every penny. If folks would stop giving them money then maybe these guys would have reason to actually make money by selling a finished game.

Really sucks because this is really my kind of game. Big reason why I'm looking forward to Starfield.

 

[fermcr]

How the hell are people still funding this scam?

Unbelievable the amount of people with money to throw away. If you don't want your money, give me some...

 

[AJUMP23]

If its private, he probably can do whatever the hell he wants with the money, especially since most of the money he got from fans were not exactly given away for free, but fans bought the ships and whatnot with it, even if they were overpriced(to say the least).

I'm not an expert in that area or anything. But even if its clearly a scam, it must probably also be a legal one, much like Multi Level Marketing companies. The only way to battle this is for people to stop giving them money, and thus forcing them to get something finished.

You do have to provide the digital goods you promised.

 

[Topher]

You do have to provide the digital goods you promised.

Technically, they are.

 

[Stuart360]

Funny thing is i get all the news letters, dev updates, and watch 2 or 3 SC streamers, and this game is still probbaly 5 or 6 years away from a '1.0' release.

Oh and just to clarify something, 'whales' are not paying $5k for ships, its $5k pledges to game development, thats just happens to come with a ship, and some other stuff. Its still ridiculous, and people are fucking idiots with too much money in their pockest, but they are not actually paying $5k, $10k etc for ships.

 

[Nautilus]

You do have to provide the digital goods you promised.

When people bought the game, they got access to the Alpha and whatever is playable in it. When you bought the ships, you did get the content that it was being promoted, even if there were promises of more.

As far as I can see, people didn't give money away purely on the future of things to come. They got something in return, a product. Even if said product is just a shadow of what they expect to get in the future. So from a lawsuit point of view, I think its hard to prove its a scam as long as people are getting SOMETHING from the purchases they make.

 

[Draugoth]

With this money they could have made Starfield Twice.

Oh and just to clarify something, 'whales' are not paying $5k for ships, its $5k pledges to game development, thats just happens to come with a ship, and some other stuff. Its still ridiculous, and people are fucking idiots with too much money in their pockest, but they are not actually paying $5k, $10k etc for ships.

First worlders with topo much money on their hands and no social skills.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm not a backer but I did purchase the base game ($45) a few years ago. I jump in every now and then. There is a good game in there somewhere, but seems obvious to me that they are milking the crowd funding for every penny. If folks would stop giving them money then maybe these guys would have reason to actually make money by selling a finished game.

Really sucks because this is really my kind of game. Big reason why I'm looking forward to Starfield.

 

[Lasha]

People laugh at that, but realistically why would they ever release the game? Almost guaranteed to be less lucrative. I just have a hard time believing there are enough idiots in the world to back this to this level purely for the game itself. So, I tend to think that the game aspect is just cover. Nothing at all to substantiate that with, it's just my own conspiracy theory.

The alternative option would be that people actually felt that a video game ship was worth $50k and that is just too much for me to process.

The whales in SC are a nerd flex thing. That 50k package came about because backers attending an expensive dinner with Chris Roberts demanded the ability to buy everything in one swoop. Not all whales are rich. My friend is around 20k in debt because he got caught up in internet spaceships before being retrenched. Most people have a basic pledge especially now that everything is earnable in game.

My conjecture gets laughed at in SC circles too. There is some fantasy that SQ42 is gonna do GTA numbers and fund the PU forever. I don't know how much bigger the games addressable market is going to be. A large segment of the market already has SQ42 from pledges before the split. PVP sandboxes are already a limited market. The game will never work on consoles because of it's complexity.

I don't see SQ42 making much of a splash. CIG is a live service company masquerading as a Kickstarter. The game would be better served by focusing purely on the PU since that's going to be the long term revenue stream of the game.

 

[Kaleinc]

It is 2510, Musk Enterprises has space colonies all over galaxy. Star Citizen is launching any minute now. Definitely happening

 

[Topher]

 

[Lunarorbit]

What would have been a reasonable budget for the original pitch and vision for the game?

$800 million. We are almost there

 

[Sophist]

Borderlands 3 development cost was around $95 million with a game engine switch in the middle (unreal engine 3 -> 4).
Cyberpunk 2077 was around $175 millions.

 

[AJUMP23]

CitizenCon: TWO days of fun!

mailchi.mp

Citizen con is back if you want to throw money away with friends.

 

[Thabass]

So when are they going to move it over to UE5?

$1 Billion. Pay up scabs.

 

[vpance]

I don't follow this at all but it's hard to believe they have that large of a cult of whales to keep milking.

Maybe it started out real but it's probably been hijacked for a massive money laundering operation.

 

[Denton]

It is a videogame people want to play. People buy said videogame. Videogame makes money.

Shocking news.

 

[EDMIX]

Why do you think Starfield is a substitute for Star Citizen?

Nah, I think its better.

Its a real thing likely to actually release. How can it be a substitute to a thing that isn't even final or near an official release? What they were trying to do, 90% of what Starfield is, is that....

Adding an online element might end up getting done by the team that did ESO and Fallout 76 post launch as an expansion for those that wish to have that type of game. The bones already exist in Starfield to do this btw.

Docking ships, selling ships, having a crew, space combat etc, enough exist there already to simply add in an online component post launch.

 

[RAIDEN1]

OP you should have titled it as "SCAM" citizen.....this game has forever been on closed door access....why can't they release it on consoles already? Or are they saying even the mighty power of the Playstation 5 can't handle the graphics of Star Citizen...it was never this bad in the Wing Commander, and the other Space combat game released in the early 2000s ...the name escapes me....not Star -Lancer but something else...

 

[SportsFan581]

CitizenCon: TWO days of fun!

mailchi.mp

Citizen con is back if you want to throw money away with friends.

You have to respect the honesty in the title there. They just hit you right over the head with it.

 

[SportsFan581]

Nah, I think its better.

Its a real thing likely to actually release. How can it be a substitute to a thing that isn't even final or near an official release? What they were trying to do, 90% of what Starfield is, is that....

Adding an online element might end up getting done by the team that did ESO and Fallout 76 post launch as an expansion for those that wish to have that type of game. The bones already exist in Starfield to do this btw.

Docking ships, selling ships, having a crew, space combat etc, enough exist there already to simply add in an online component post launch.

I like the idea of an MMO type game set in the Starfield world. Might be something we see happen since they could reuse assets and things like that.

 

[Fuz]

Star Citizen is proof that people are s

That's diablo IV.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

For the way it runs it does seem to have a lot of systems going on and I haven't played the game so I'm sure somebody can point me out to a video that actually shows the breath and scope of the game and why it's so demanding.

I know some of the video that I saw a few weeks ago with some character riding on a train through a city looked really cool just looked like it was performing poorly but there was some sense of scale going on there. It's just been in dev so long that most people would expect a chunk of it by now.

 

[Tomofdahook17]

I'll never understand the scam argument. Who got scammed here? you gave them your money for early access.

Should they just say the game is the final product and release it unfinished? Or keep making it better in early access?

 

[Kerotan]

Kiflom brother brother.

 

[3liteDragon]

Is it a playable game, or just a mish mash of demo's?
Imagine if Bethesda had 600 million to develop a game. It would be three times the size and scope of Starfield.

And 16 times the wait.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Got to love the mental degenerate whales that keep supplying Scam Citizen with Macro transactions.

 

[newtypepilot]

it's a scam. This "game" will never be finished, as they will continue to promise new features as justification or make up whatever excuses for its perpetual development. It's a malicious effort.

You want to throw money into this black hole? That's on you. But people that defend this are completely delusional.

 

[Denton]

The people whining about "scam" are braindead morons.

This is a bog standard early access game. Nobody is scammed into it. Hell, they do free weeks like four times a year when literally anyone can play the game for a week for free. If you play it for free and then buy it and then say it is a scam, you are a moron.

If you never try it and just say it is a scam, you are also a moron.

 

[Dr. Claus]

The people whining about "scam" are braindead morons.

This is a bog standard early access game. Nobody is scammed into it. Hell, they do free weeks like four times a year when literally anyone can play the game for a week for free. If you play it for free and then buy it and then say it is a scam, you are a moron.

If you never try it and just say it is a scam, you are also a moron.

Found the whale.

 

[SportsFan581]

I'll never understand the scam argument. Who got scammed here? you gave them your money for early access.

Should they just say the game is the final product and release it unfinished? Or keep making it better in early access?

People obviously use the word scam loosely in this case. Early access doesn't generally take anywhere near this long.

Typically the devs build a game and then try to profit or they do the fundraising/early access for a short period (maybe three or four years at most) and then release a game. The early access for this one started 11 years ago. Thus the scam jokes because people figure it will never actually be a released product. And then there is the selling of the concept ships and the elimination of the refund options, the grey markets, etc. You've got to admit that this game is not exactly following the standard practice.

If all you've spent is $30, $40, $70 whatever to get access to the game it isn't much different from other games. You got what you got, maybe you didn't get something as polished as you should have gotten, but look at Gollum.

11 Years, $600m....

 

[Utherellus]

"It's a scam"
"Company will collapse next year, you will see"
"JPEGs for 500 dollars, Roberts must be sniffing cocaine on his yacht"

I swear, people don't get tired of same placeholder punchlines. 11 years and counting.

Instead of typing excruciating jokes or trying to expose a ponzi scheme, why don't yall just observe one of the most interesting and chaotic product development of modern history? Why on earth shouldn't all of you just watch them trying to develop one of the most complex pieces of code and turn it into a working game?

Honestly have no idea where is your scientific curiosity as a gamers.

They achieved amazing things from a technological perspective, pioneered and materialized "SSD changes game design" philosophy back in 2016 when we were playing on our HDD's like cavemen.
Fellas creating something very interesting, just chill and observe lol, how hard can it be?

 

[sendit]

Star Citizen is a perfect example of feature creep.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Money laundering - Wikipedia

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