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[JackFrost2012]

Stop smiling, you two. It's creeping me out.

 

[bobbyconover]

You're not doing it right It's creepier when they're used in the place of periods

 

[JackFrost2012]

Or, even worse, internal to the sentence .
What the hell kind of place is that for a smiley ?

 

[Alcibiades]

I hope your game goes well Pana

 

[JackFrost2012]

 

[dark10x]

 

[Panajev2001a]

I hope your game goes well Pana

Thanks, although you will not find any sales data as I don't have any money for an official SDK of any sort lol .

 

[JackFrost2012]

 

[bobbyconover]

I just put together an absolutely beautiful smiley face Space Invader, 11x8 smileys large, and the board won't let me post it. BOOOO!

 

[jarrod]

They were NOT built from scratch.

Ported, conversion, whatever you want to call it Atomic Planet rebuilt these games on new hardware. Simple as that. Indeed I remember the reason they gave for the first delay from March was Capcom USA demanded they add the original slowdown back in that they removed. If they went through enough codework to remove the additional soundtracks from the GC version, would it really have been that hard to add in some more animation cycles, an artwork gallery and two hidden bosses to MM8?

Why were they the easy route you ask?

Simple. Extra features were a requirement for release. Porting from NES would have required work done to add those features. Emulation would have been impossible as well.

Required extra features? First I've heard of that... required by whom exactly? Why would extra content be only required for half the collection also? Where are you getting this?

They did NOT build the PSX games, though. Those were already made and they simply ported them over. That was the easiest route they could have taken if they wanted all of those features.

So... they took the "easy" route by porting better versions of MM1-6 with additional features but with MM8 the "easy" route is the opposite? Let's not forget the Saturn version itself was a port of the PSX original... I'm not so sure the two codebases would've been that different as to make adding the extra Saturn content unrealistic.

At the least, my original dissapointment still stands as valid. We get the worst version of MM8 (and seemingly badly ported at that with black borders and fucked sound) meanwhile Atomic Planet wasted 6 months retooling slowdown and playing with soundtrack compression on simple 8bit ports. If it was emulation being used, that's excusable but when these games are actually being recoded on new hardware there's no excuse for not having that extra Saturn content. The fact the NES games had the added PS1 features only compunds this for me.... what a waste.

Hey, it was a PSOne to GBA port cut some slack, I know the guy behind it .

You try porting a 320meg 65000 colour game from the much more powerful psone to an 8meg 256 colours over 4 layers for all backgronds + 256 colour for all sprites less powerful GBA with all features intact and minimal slowdown and then we'll talk

Well slowdown is definitely the lesser of two evils, but that save bug is simply inexcusable. Both Capcom and Atomic Planet should be ashamed for letting that slip by, especially as the game had already seen healthy delays... Atomic Planet's track record just seems like botched ports so far to me. They don't deserve much slack.

Also, let's not forget that Puzzle Fighter is really a simple CPS2 game at it's core, not even PS1. Referring to it as a "320meg 65000 colour" game seems a bit steep for a 9.3MB game running on 11.8 MHz 16bit 68000 based hardware that allows 16 colors per tile (of a total color selection of 4096).

 

[ninge]

The save bug apparently only effects certain carts - i'd suggest you try and get a replacement if there is a problem with yours

You've also got to bear in mind that the arcade and psx versions ran at 320*240 resolution and the GBA is only 240*160 - that's a hell of a lot of working right there just to make everything fit on the screen!

GBA version uses 198 sprites just to display the gems (two grids of 11*9 - try it in an emulator and turn HW sprites off to see that they really are sprites) - and the GBA is only capable of displaying 128 so someone obviously knew what they were doing..

I think there are way to many people making out that these things are easy to do or making crazy assumptions about how things could have been done when they themselves have very little knowledge of just what goes into converting a game from one platform to another. I can't think of a single other psone game that has been ported to GBA so succesfully!

 

[dark10x]

You are just completely mis-understanding everything I've said. -_-

Why even bother?

Edit - Regardless of which crazy direction you were running off in, you don't even play console games do you? Why on earth should it even matter?

 

[jarrod]

The save bug apparently only effects certain carts - i'd suggest you try and get a replacement if there is a problem with yours

Well, there's also other small problems like multiplayer being out of synch and whatnot. And yes, I've already dealt with Capcom USA and gotten a new cart.

 

[Alcibiades]

heck, even I don't care to understand all this back and forth mumbo-jumbo about space, emulation, ports, which version used, etc..

the point is, if Capcom wanted this to turn out great (using the best version, removing all slowdown, making PS2/CUBE identical), they could have, but they chose a questionable developer and probably didn't want to spend the cash necessary...

 

[NotMSRP]

The PS1 Rockman Complete Works offered button configuation customization and Dualshock vibration. Neither of these are in the PS2 & GC versions.

Also, the PS1 RCW offers original or arranged music in either normal or NAVI mode. So there's four ways to play the game. On the other hand, we only get two of the four.

The menu arrangement could have been setup better. Under the options menu, the order is video, sound, then gameplay. The best order is to have gameplay, sound, then video. This order is range from most frequently to be used to least frequently to be used.

The ending of Megaman 7 was edited because AP couldn't emulate mode 7 effects. So then, why wasn't a video of the proper ending included as an unlockable bonus to compensate?

Why is the video quality of the cartoon episode poor? The PS2 DVD has still 1GB of space left. On the Hyper Street Fighter 2 PS2 DVD, the anime movie takes up 2.7GB for a 2hour movie at DVD or near DVD video quality.

 

[jarrod]

You are just completely mis-understanding everything I've said. -_-

Why even bother?

Edit - Regardless of which crazy direction you were running off in, you don't even play console games do you? Why on earth should it even matter?

Here's an idea, rather than deal in vague terms and hypothetical excuses, if you feel I'm failing to grasp whatever point you're laying out try to be more clear. I'm only misunderstanding what you've failed to communcate. Seems more to me your flimsy arguments just aren't holding.

And I adore MegaMan and yes do play select console games still. And I'll still probably pick up and enjoy the PS2 MMAC.

I can't think of a single other psone game that has been ported to GBA so succesfully!

SFA3 maybe, it included all the extra content from the PS1/SS/DC releases plus additional fighters. Rayman Advance was a fairly decent port also (of a Jaguar/PS1/SS/PC level game). KOFEX2 too was an excellect translation of the Neo Geo KOF2000 (PS1 usually struggled with Neo ports). Final Fantasy I+II should be on par with the PSX version visually (though it's a WSC level game in the first place).

 

[dark10x]

Here's an idea, rather than deal in vague terms and hypothetical excuses, if you feel I'm failing to grasp whatever point you're laying out try to be more clear.

OK, here goes...

When one approaches any sort of project, you must lay out a design document of sorts. That is, you should have a plan on how to handle each part of the project, what each part entails, and how much time it will take.

I'd imagine that looking at a web of this project, you would see a central menu system which ties into each piece of the project. 6 of those pieces were virtually the same in terms of how they were designed, so a solution to handle all of them would make the most sense.

When design was started, these 6 games existed on two different pieces of hardware. They were created for the FC/NES and the PSX. This is a slight assumption, but I'd imagine that part of their plan for these games was to include an updated UI, enhanced controls, and a menu system all designed to integrate the overall package. That wanted unity here.

When approaching these games, they likely had an idea of how they would unify the package. Megaman 8 and Rockman complete works for PSX all share the same UI, with only MM7 standing alone.

One approach would be to port the games from the original hardware (NES) to PS2 and Gamecube. Taking the whole project into account, they would need to understand and port code from NES, SNES, and PlayStation (or Saturn).

For the first six games, this would not be a direct port. They would obviously have to allow the engines to handle updated functions (ie - higher color displays and playback of different audio formats). Emulation would not be possible here, as that would prevent any additional features from being present (as they would be simply handling the calls from old hardware not intended to pull off the additions they wished to make). Do you understand that much? If not, point it out in a reply.

Now, they could port the code and allow it to function on newer hardware. They would also need to concern themselves with coding the extra functions (interface, controls, and audio related...heck, even display related) into already closed code. In other words, they would be doing work that had been done previously (for Rockman Complete Works).

So, that would require AP to port code from THREE different platforms while adding their own custom functions to three different types of code.

----------------------

I believe that choosing Rockman Compelte Works as a base made it easier on them than if they had chosen to port from NES.

Here's why...

In order to the complete this project, they KNEW they would be porting from SNES and PSX/Saturn. Let us say they chose to go with PSX for MM8 (as they did). Now, they are dealing with PSX -> PS2 or GC. As a result, they will have gained experience in dealing with PSX hardware.

Therefore, RMCW comes into play...

The complete works are games written for the PSX platform which offer most of the unified features that they wished to add to the games. Not only is part of the job already done...but the code is based on a platform they would have already had experience with! That means they only have to handle PSX and SNES ports. To me, this seems like an easier approach than NES, SNES, PSX or NES, SNES, Saturn. Handling TWO platforms is easier than handling THREE (no matter how simplified one might seem to you). It becomes even more obvious when you realize that many of the features they would have had to add themselves were already present!

Does THIS make sense?

I am not a top programmer, but I have done plenty of programming projects for various companies. When tackling a project, I always attempt to unify as much code as possible and reduce the overall amount of NEW code I will have to add. In their case, working with two platforms prevents them from needing to learn a third (which requires research, obviously). One potential problem with my reasoning is that I am a small time programmer and can't really comment on these issues from the perspective of a real professional. I'm just looking at it from a logical (for me) perspective.

When you consider this, do you understand why it would have been MORE difficult to port from NES or Saturn? It simply would have upped the amount of work required, and it seems they already had their hands full. :\

Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe they could not have added some of the features from the Saturn version. ...but alas, it was not meant to be.

playing with soundtrack compression on simple 8bit ports.

See, I don't think they retooled this either. The RMCW discs used redbook audio IIRC, and the code required to play redbook is COMPLETELY different from any other type of audio format. They couldn't compress the audio because their method of playback would not support it and they didn't want to recode this.

My overall point here is that AP took the easiest way out in all cases.

One thing that bothers me a bit is how freely you speak in terms of coding. Have you actually had any programming experience? You seem to be naming off all kinds of things without understanding each aspect. It obviously depends on how skillful your team is, though, and it doesn't seem as if AP is really all that skilled (in comparison to many other teams). You should know that from the GBA experience...

If there is ANYTHING unclear, let me know and I will try to explain it in more detail. Also, I did not re-read any of this to ensure that I made no mistakes. This is raw text with no editing...so I may have made some mistakes somewhere.

 

[jarrod]

Crystal clear, and I agree with everything you've said. I understand the "why" here... I just don't feel it's justified.

I really just don't see how adding the Saturn specific features to the PSX version would've been all that difficult. It'd amount to a few additional animation routines, adding in two hidden bosses and a menu based art/sound gallery... there's not really anything there that seems Saturn intensive, indeed the Saturn version could've been done on a stock PSX with no problem (it's certianly not anything the platform can't handle). The only reason the Saturn version saw any extras was likely because the project was a PSX port and benefitted from subsequent development. I applaud AP for going the extra mile on MM1-6 but it sounds to me like MM8 got the short end of the stick (and not just in regards to Saturn extras, but the apparent crap port of the PS original as well). Like I said before, it's just a shame this collection wasn't perfect... in fact I'd take another delay if they'd just fix up MM8.

 

[kiryogi]

Well, here's something for the ps2 owners or folks that haven't unlocked it yet.. It's up at Megaman Network, not gonna direct link for B/W sake

http://megaman.retrofaction.com/

 

[MoxManiac]

You've also got to bear in mind that the arcade and psx versions ran at 320*240 resolution and the GBA is only 240*160 - that's a hell of a lot of working right there just to make everything fit on the screen!

A small nitpick, but the arcade version was 384x224.

 

[Kwokuen]

There goes any incentive for me to get the GC version.

 

[kiryogi]

Well with any good hope, like that person Buddy saw, they wouldnt mind anyway As I've said before, they're both solid versions to have.