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[RetroGamingUK]

As Microsoft throws in the towel on the console war and becomes a PlayStation third party, I thought it would be interesting to look back on where the rivalry all started



By the way, the accent of the first guy (for you yanks) is called Brummie

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I remember seeing the below tech demo and thinking "wow, PS2 doesn't stand a chance against this thing".

There was a bit of bias there though, at the time I was a hardcore Sega nut enjoying his brand new copy of Resident Evil Code Veronica on Dreamcast



Yeah, tech demos were always bullshit

 

[SweetTooth]

I LOVE seeing those old videos after demolishing the competition.

 

[Kupfer]

The games and art style were still incredibly janky back then - and I love it. You can immediately tell that real nerds were behind it, bringing their own vision of 'what's cool' to life, rather than suit-wearing executives rigidly following a check-list or overpaid designers who are out of touch with the industry and don't understand the audience

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The games and art style were still incredibly janky back then - and I love it. You can immediately tell that real nerds were behind it, bringing their own vision of 'what's cool' to life, rather than suit-wearing executives rigidly following a check-list or overpaid designers who are out of touch with the industry and don't understand the audience

I think the closer we've come to photorealism in games the more I've started to lean back to retro-looking stylised games.

It's almost like the novelty of photorealism has started to wear off now that it's (largely) been achieved. It's now taken for advantage.

This…

…is starting to appeal to me more than this…

 

[drganon]

I think the closer we've come to photorealism in games the more I've started to lean back to retro-looking stylised games.

It's almost like the novelty of photorealism has started to wear off now that it's (largely) been achieved. It's now taken for advantage.

This…

…is starting to appeal to me more than this…

Anything is more appealing than Hellblade.

 

[Vroadstar]

I LOVE seeing those old videos after demolishing the competition.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

A fellow brummie

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Well, you could say they managed to dethrone Sega

 

[jm89]

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yeah around 1999 Xbox was this huge looming thing that would come out after the PS2 and would supposedly blow it away. I had a bunch of PC friends that even ran a PC store, and they weren't looking forward to PS2 or DC but rather to Xbox.

Xbox kind of did blow the PS2 away. I mean, there was nothing like DoA3, Splinter Cell, RalliSport, Halo on PS2. The Xbox absolutely showed more raw power from the get go. By then PS2 was so dominant that it didn't matter anymore. And PS2 could still show off impressive stuff like GT3 and MGS2.

I do have sort of a soft spot for the Xbox and the Duke controller. They did differentiate itself enough from Sony and Nintendo. Xbox was the only place where I could play these Dreamcast sequels like PGR and JSRF. They figured FPS out on consoles, they had some really good quirky JP stuff like Otogi as well. And we played that mediocre 4 player co op game a lot. Brute Force was it.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The main thing I liked about the original Xbox was the Sega games that would've been on Dreamcast had the console had a longer life.

Yes PS2 and GameCube had great Sega games, but Jet Set Radio Future was my favourite of the bunch



After that Xbox just became grey, soulless and far too Americanised.

 

[SHA]

I bought the PS2 cause it sounded logical, everything about the ps1 is revolutionary so why not jump straight to PS2.

 

[Mokus]

They tried really hard (money wise) and they did came close to get on top. But failing to capture the japanese market and the audience who liked primarily japanese games was their biggest obstacle in the long run.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Well, you could say they managed to dethrone Sega

I do wonder if it weren't for the looming threat of Xbox if Sega would have stayed in the console market.

I don't believe there's room for 3 competitors in the console market, but I'd have much preferred Sega over Microsoft.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

They tried really hard (money wise) and they did came close to get on top. But failing to capture the japanese market and the audience who liked primarily japanese games was their biggest obstacle in the long run.

Third biggest market after US and China, you've got to really focus and it was just an afterthought.

Look at Microsoft's attitude towards Xbox in China, it's was the same half arsed approach.

Outside America (and Britain during the 360 days) they were just clueless.

 

[SimTourist]

Out of 4 consoles and 25 years on the market they had one successful one and maybe 3-4 relatively dominant years overall.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Xbox 360 was also initially better than PS3. Cheaper, earlier, more games, better games.

Shame it all went to shit soon after that. Going from Halo Reach to Halo 4 was a disappointment, the first Halo I could not bear to finish. Japanese games dried up. They just lost sight of what was important, they though video games were utilities like excel and word and though "we have cornered the market with our software, our customers will stick to what they are used to". Sony and Nintendo were never going to let them have it so easily, they came back with everything they had, PS4 utterly humiliated Xbox: cheaper, more powerful, better games and no DRM bullshit.

MS 10 years later is still blaming the former CEO for that bad reveal in 2013. Guess what, Nintendo also fucked up with the WiiU, but nobody at Nintendo goes around crying "Its Iwata's fault we fucked up, what can we possibly do now". No, they fucking got to work and delivered good game after good game.

Still, there is hope, recently Spencer got his head unstuck out of his ass for a brief moment before getting rid of Tango Gameworks (Jesus, talk about incompetence) and saw it fit to work with Japanese publishers to release a game people actully are looking forward to, Ninja Gaiden 4. Maybe this is the beginning of a comeback? I hope so.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

MS were never cool, and they're still not cool.

Sony were cool 20 years ago, but they have a bit of a getting older Fonzie thing going on right now.

 

[Unknown?]

If Xbox weren't backed by Microsoft, it would have died with the first. It lost so much money and was a failure sells wise.

 

[Topher]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Better is subjective, but that isn't what "dethroning" means here. PS2 wiped the floor with the og Xbox.

 

[Muddy]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Xbox 360 was also initially better than PS3. Cheaper, earlier, more games, better games.

Shame it all went to shit soon after that. Going from Halo Reach to Halo 4 was a disappointment, the first Halo I could not bear to finish. Japanese games dried up. They just lost sight of what was important, they though video games were utilities like excel and word and though "we have cornered the market with our software, our customers will stick to what they are used to". Sony and Nintendo were never going to let them have it so easily, they came back with everything they had, PS4 utterly humiliated Xbox: cheaper, more powerful, better games and no DRM bullshit.

MS 10 years later is still blaming the former CEO for that bad reveal in 2013. Guess what, Nintendo also fucked up with the WiiU, but nobody at Nintendo goes around crying "Its Iwata's fault we fucked up, what can we possibly do now". No, they fucking got to work and delivered good game after good game.

Still, there is hope, recently Spencer got his head unstuck out of his ass for a brief moment before getting rid of Tango Gameworks (Jesus, talk about incompetence) and saw it fit to work with Japanese publishers to release a game people actully are looking forward to, Ninja Gaiden 4. Maybe this is the beginning of a comeback? I hope so.

160 million PS2 customers say otherwise.

As opposed to 24 million OG Xbox customers. The only console the OG Xbox dethroned was the Gamecube.

 

[EN250]

You are enjoying this a bit too much, don't you think?

 

[ReBurn]

Better is subjective, but that isn't what "dethroning" means here. PS2 wiped the floor with the og Xbox.

Yeah, it wasn't even close. Xbox had better versions of many third party games and its own collection of what have become cult favorites, but it didn't even come close to the mass appeal of the PS2.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Globally, Sony's worst-selling home console still outsold Microsoft's best - on a broader scale, MS was never in the same ballpark. Even Nintendo can't match them for consistency - Sony has never had a GameCube, WiiU, or N64 moment. PS3 outsold the WiiU by more than six-fold.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Globally, Sony's worst-selling home console still outsold Microsoft's best - on a broader scale, MS was never in the same ballpark. Even Nintendo can't match them for consistency - Sony has never had a GameCube, WiiU, or N64 moment. PS3 outsold the WiiU by more than six-fold.

Closest thing would be the Vita, but I think the Vita simply was too late and too early on the market. It was greatly impacted by mobile games and too early for scaled down console games. It was pricey and the lack of video out really hurt it.

If they could have enabled video out and allowed you to pair a dual shock to it, I think it would have found more of a home.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

I bought the PS2 cause it sounded logical, everything about the ps1 is revolutionary so why not jump straight to PS2.

Don't forget improved PS1 graphics and shorter loading times on PS2.

 

[Guesclin]

Playstation is no longer the fastest growing religion in Europe

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I do wonder if it weren't for the looming threat of Xbox if Sega would have stayed in the console market.

I don't believe there's room for 3 competitors in the console market, but I'd have much preferred Sega over Microsoft.

Doubt it; Xbox & Gamecube just accelerated SEGA's exit, but they were already losing a massive amount of money and Dreamcast sales weren't where they needed to be.

SEGA probably would've needed a major investor or giant loan to continue support for Dreamcast through the rest of that gen, and have the R&D budget to build out a successor (as well as fund the games). As things played out, they only had enough funds to continue most software development and that's a big reason they pulled out of being a platform holder.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

I think the closer we've come to photorealism in games the more I've started to lean back to retro-looking stylised games.

It's almost like the novelty of photorealism has started to wear off now that it's (largely) been achieved. It's now taken for advantage.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[SHA]

Don't forget improved PS1 graphics and shorter loading times on PS2.

In today's standard every ps1 & 2 games are exclusives to me.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Xbox 360 was also initially better than PS3. Cheaper, earlier, more games, better games.

Shame it all went to shit soon after that. Going from Halo Reach to Halo 4 was a disappointment, the first Halo I could not bear to finish. Japanese games dried up. They just lost sight of what was important, they though video games were utilities like excel and word and though "we have cornered the market with our software, our customers will stick to what they are used to". Sony and Nintendo were never going to let them have it so easily, they came back with everything they had, PS4 utterly humiliated Xbox: cheaper, more powerful, better games and no DRM bullshit.

MS 10 years later is still blaming the former CEO for that bad reveal in 2013. Guess what, Nintendo also fucked up with the WiiU, but nobody at Nintendo goes around crying "Its Iwata's fault we fucked up, what can we possibly do now". No, they fucking got to work and delivered good game after good game.

Still, there is hope, recently Spencer got his head unstuck out of his ass for a brief moment before getting rid of Tango Gameworks (Jesus, talk about incompetence) and saw it fit to work with Japanese publishers to release a game people actully are looking forward to, Ninja Gaiden 4. Maybe this is the beginning of a comeback? I hope so.

I think they made a mistake when Peter Moore left. Not because of him per se, but the general direction they took with this shake up. Before that MS really did well in fact. Their increase from Xbox to 360 was impressive. They were in a good place and would've been in an even better place without the RRoD debacle, but they just kind of killed off IP, and let the studios go that got them there. Tecmo was likely unhappy with Itagaki and wanted to publish multiplatform, but Bizarre was let go after 4 fantastic PGR games, they let Bungie go because they wanted creative freedom (fun note; I think MS was right to clip their wings), Gears went outsourced after the excellent trilogy, they apparently didn't push for BioWare who went to EA (laugh now, but they were a top tier studio at the time). Fairly certain Sony would've purchased BioWare after KOTOR or Jade Empire, for example.

This paid dividends at first, we all saw the Kinect push, but this was never going to work in the long run. We saw the sudden Wii decline soon after. Without Kinect MS was left with a console with little incentive, they had lost their core audience, lots of studios and IP. I felt Xbox One had no identity, yeah they did secure a mediocre Dead Rising 3 and Ryse, but it was nothing like what they offered for Xbox and 360 out of the gate.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Xbox 360 was also initially better than PS3. Cheaper, earlier, more games, better games.

Shame it all went to shit soon after that. Going from Halo Reach to Halo 4 was a disappointment, the first Halo I could not bear to finish. Japanese games dried up. They just lost sight of what was important, they though video games were utilities like excel and word and though "we have cornered the market with our software, our customers will stick to what they are used to". Sony and Nintendo were never going to let them have it so easily, they came back with everything they had, PS4 utterly humiliated Xbox: cheaper, more powerful, better games and no DRM bullshit.

MS 10 years later is still blaming the former CEO for that bad reveal in 2013. Guess what, Nintendo also fucked up with the WiiU, but nobody at Nintendo goes around crying "Its Iwata's fault we fucked up, what can we possibly do now". No, they fucking got to work and delivered good game after good game.

Still, there is hope, recently Spencer got his head unstuck out of his ass for a brief moment before getting rid of Tango Gameworks (Jesus, talk about incompetence) and saw it fit to work with Japanese publishers to release a game people actully are looking forward to, Ninja Gaiden 4. Maybe this is the beginning of a comeback? I hope so.

This level of delusion actually scares me. It shows that people can make themselves believe whatever they want. Facts be damned!

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Imo, they did dethrone Sony. Xbox 1 was a better console than PS2, with better looking and better playing games.

Xbox 360 was also initially better than PS3. Cheaper, earlier, more games, better games.

Shame it all went to shit soon after that. Going from Halo Reach to Halo 4 was a disappointment, the first Halo I could not bear to finish. Japanese games dried up. They just lost sight of what was important, they though video games were utilities like excel and word and though "we have cornered the market with our software, our customers will stick to what they are used to". Sony and Nintendo were never going to let them have it so easily, they came back with everything they had, PS4 utterly humiliated Xbox: cheaper, more powerful, better games and no DRM bullshit.

MS 10 years later is still blaming the former CEO for that bad reveal in 2013. Guess what, Nintendo also fucked up with the WiiU, but nobody at Nintendo goes around crying "Its Iwata's fault we fucked up, what can we possibly do now". No, they fucking got to work and delivered good game after good game.

Still, there is hope, recently Spencer got his head unstuck out of his ass for a brief moment before getting rid of Tango Gameworks (Jesus, talk about incompetence) and saw it fit to work with Japanese publishers to release a game people actully are looking forward to, Ninja Gaiden 4. Maybe this is the beginning of a comeback? I hope so.

 

[mitch1971]

Jesus, and I thought it was only modern games delivering the female uglies.

 

[nowhat]

Closest thing would be the Vita, but I think the Vita simply was too late and too early on the market. It was greatly impacted by mobile games and too early for scaled down console games. It was pricey and the lack of video out really hurt it.

If they could have enabled video out and allowed you to pair a dual shock to it, I think it would have found more of a home.

Oh come on. The ultimate failure of Vita was the proprietary memory, when alternatives (much much cheaper) were coming to market. It was like MiniDisc*BetaMax on steroids. Sony had every possibility to go standards-compliant. They chose not to. Shooting yourself in the foot really does feel nice, doesn't it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh come on. The ultimate failure of Vita was the proprietary memory, when alternatives (much much cheaper) were coming to market. It was like MiniDisc*BetaMax on steroids. Sony had every possibility to go standards-compliant. They chose not to. Shooting yourself in the foot really does feel nice, doesn't it.

Honestly, that's a pretty tertiary reason for a product to fail. I've never seen anyone say, "I'm not buying a Vita because of the slightly more expensive memory."

It was a lack of games, particularly first party support. No Gran Turismo, no God of War, not even Infamous. Would have been a perfect place to farm out Jak and Daxter and Ratchet and Clank games too.

 

[Sooner]

That PS2 vs Xbox battle was neck and neck.

 

[nowhat]

slightly more expensive memory

It was not "slightly more expensive". It was "fucking more expensive when compared to the competitors", especially after a few years into the life of Vita.

Yes, easier access to media would have meant more piracy. Well guess what, that's what both the PS1 and PSP thrived upon.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I often wonder how it would have been if microsoft jumped in a gen early and competed with saturn, n64, and ps1. the controller would have looked like this;

 

[onnextflix5]

the downfall of the Xbox after the success of the 360 was so self inflicted, it boggles my mind how anyone can make that many mistakes let alone a billion dollar company like ms. The ceos at ms just don't understand gaming and never will.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I often wonder how it would have been if microsoft jumped in a gen early and competed with saturn, n64, and ps1. the controller would have looked like this;

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I often wonder how it would have been if microsoft jumped in a gen early and competed with saturn, n64, and ps1. the controller would have looked like this;

Likely would have resulted in an early exit for them.

What allowed Xbox to gain steam was Xbox Live which really needed broadband speeds, which weren't as readily available the previous generation. They also wouldn't have had Halo.

It would have sold really poorly and probably would have been scrapped early. It would have struggled even more to get 3rd party support as everyone was so focused on PS1.

 

[nial]

After that Xbox just became grey, soulless and far too Americanised.

Can we really refer to Americanization when talking about an American product?
Sega exclusives were nice and all, but Microsoft pretty much built the system based on American appeal, and honestly? I don't think it's a bad thing given what company we are talking about and where they are located.
Microsoft mostly focusing on American development is exactly like Nintendo mostly focusing on Japanese development.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Likely would have resulted in an early exit for them.

What allowed Xbox to gain steam was Xbox Live which really needed broadband speeds, which weren't as readily available the previous generation. They also wouldn't have had Halo.

It would have sold really poorly and probably would have been scrapped early. It would have struggled even more to get 3rd party support as everyone was so focused on PS1.

Good timing too coming with broadband capabilities built in in late 2001.

For early 2000 it would have been too early in PS2.

And Dreamcast really jumped the gun with dial-up modem.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I do think it was fair that Xbox started out knowing what they had to do.
But at some point everyone who knew what a good game looks like, all left the company. And Microsoft being MS just started to milk the audience because that is what the head office does with Windows.

In particular Microsoft is used to not caring about customer satisfaction. The idea being customers are stuck with them and had no choice, so who cares if customers are unhappy. This doesn't work when there is a rival option people actually move to.

 

[damidu]

unfortunately they jumped to the throne, while sony was still sitting

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Thanks for beta testing the English language my British friends.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

In particular Microsoft is used to not caring about customer satisfaction. The idea being customers are stuck with them and had no choice, so who cares if customers are unhappy. This doesn't work when there is a rival option people actually move to.

When Mattrick said something along the lines of "we have product for those who haven't access to the internet, its called Xbox 360" they really believed that gamers would simply stick with Xbox through sheer inertia and love of the brand. Not to mention, they also planned to put an end to second hand games. The sheer fucking hubris.

I don't even even blame Mattrick though cause Spencer was right behind him then and he's equally responsible for all the missed opportunities and bad decions.