Triggerhappytel
Member
Once you've defeated the second boss in Mensis the doll in the Hunter's Dream will have some new dialogue, and provided you don't do as she says you can finish up everything in the game (including the DLC).
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Bloodborne |OT+5| Grant Us Eyes!
- Thread starter Robot Pants
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Once you've defeated the second boss in Mensis the doll in the Hunter's Dream will have some new dialogue, and provided you don't do as she says you can finish up everything in the game (including the DLC).
Melchiah
Member
If you want to hear all the dialogue in the dream, and have all the characters there, it's best to start the DLC before beating Mergo's Wet Nurse. At that point, you might want to make a backup save to USB-stick where you can return to, and finish the main game before the DLC, as you'll be overlevelled for the last bosses afterwards.
The game moves you automatically to NG+ when you've beaten the boss(es) that follow MWN.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Killed Cursed and Defiled Pthumerian Chalice Amygdala last night only with the help of someone else, then got myself ready to create the Pthumerian Queen's dungeon. Had enough of everything but Red Jellies so I had to go into Lower Loran Chalice and I'm currently at the boss of layer 2, the Abhorrent Beast. Once I'm done here it's on to Great Isz Chalice to pick up the other two Red Jellies on layer 3 and then back to make the Great Pthumeru Ihyll Chalice, and on to Yarnham to defeat her and hopefully get the Platinum!
I still need to get back to the DLC as well. I've got a little way past Ludwig and died to some strange ladies with either swollen heads or big turbans on, and haven't really been back since. I fucking hate those Cosmic Vicars or whatever they're called which are pretty close to Ludwig's domain - I don't think I've ever beaten both of them alone.
I still need to get back to the DLC as well. I've got a little way past Ludwig and died to some strange ladies with either swollen heads or big turbans on, and haven't really been back since. I fucking hate those Cosmic Vicars or whatever they're called which are pretty close to Ludwig's domain - I don't think I've ever beaten both of them alone.
cj_iwakura
Member
Lure the fighter to the jail area.
How painful/time consuming is it to get to her? I just started lower Pthumerian chalice so I assume I still have a long way to go
Edit: I got the chalices from Amygdala and Ebrietas as well
you can bait him back towards the door (he won't leave the cathedral) run in and get some hits on him till he uses the chikage then back off and he'll take damage from it. Eventually he'll switch back and then you can keep doing this till he dies
roflwaffles
Member
The worst is over already if you've beaten the Defiled Chalice!
The final boss in Lower Loran is straight up bullshit though.
Orochinagis
Member
What happened? I dont follow Souls streamers after Dark Souls 3 click bait EVERYONE PUT MAYUS LOOK AT ME on their videos
StoppedInTracks
Member
I've got some questions now that I thought about the Lore for a while and watched a lot of VaatiVidya's etc. Bloodborne videos.
The story is quite understandable for me:
- under Yharnam the Byrgenweth scholars found Pthumerian Catacombs with Old Blood
- this Blood has curative features but also changes people into Beasts
- that's why the Healing Church founded Workshop who trained Hunters to kill the Beasts or people that may or may not turn into Beasts
- it was kept under wraps until Old Yharnam was overrun with Beasts and had to be burned down
- generally on a very high level the Old Blood is used as some kind of link between Great Ones who want to reproduce and Humans who want to ascend from Humanity to Godhood
- Willem (Eye) wants to study the Great Ones and gain Insight in order to understand what makes them Great
- Laurence wants to partake in the blood ceremonies in order to become a Great One via Blood intakes
- The Choir keeps on communicating with Ebretias, who was found under Yharnam (?) [Isz Chalice] and runs an "Orphanage" for infant... Humans or Great Ones (???)
but I do not grasp the difference between what is real and what is not. Where and when does the Dream/ Nightmare start?
Waking Word/ Dream
What is the Waking World? Is it the real-life? If yes then what happens in the game - in the Nightmare/ Dream - is exactly what the name suggests - a dream only?
If this is a Dream and everytime you die you re-awaken in the Hunter's Dream then do the other Hunters or NPCs like Eileen/ Alfred/ Arianna etc. - do they also awaken each time they die or not? Are they mortal?
If this is a Dream - was the whole blood transfusion/ contract thing at the beginning also a Dream? Or did it happen in the real-world and because of the tainted blood the Nightmare/ Dream/ Delirium began?
Also what was the contract about? Curative blood in exchange for what? Participation in The Hunt?
Mensis
What or who is Mensis? I understand who Mergo is but who is Mensis? It is a Great One? A Byrgenweth Scholar? A name of a ritual? Is it a being or a thing?
Ebretias
What does it mean she was left behind? I thought Great Ones are... Great and they do not need to transcend into any higher plane of existence? The others Great Ones ascended and she did not?
The story is quite understandable for me:
- under Yharnam the Byrgenweth scholars found Pthumerian Catacombs with Old Blood
- this Blood has curative features but also changes people into Beasts
- that's why the Healing Church founded Workshop who trained Hunters to kill the Beasts or people that may or may not turn into Beasts
- it was kept under wraps until Old Yharnam was overrun with Beasts and had to be burned down
- generally on a very high level the Old Blood is used as some kind of link between Great Ones who want to reproduce and Humans who want to ascend from Humanity to Godhood
- Willem (Eye) wants to study the Great Ones and gain Insight in order to understand what makes them Great
- Laurence wants to partake in the blood ceremonies in order to become a Great One via Blood intakes
- The Choir keeps on communicating with Ebretias, who was found under Yharnam (?) [Isz Chalice] and runs an "Orphanage" for infant... Humans or Great Ones (???)
but I do not grasp the difference between what is real and what is not. Where and when does the Dream/ Nightmare start?
Waking Word/ Dream
What is the Waking World? Is it the real-life? If yes then what happens in the game - in the Nightmare/ Dream - is exactly what the name suggests - a dream only?
If this is a Dream and everytime you die you re-awaken in the Hunter's Dream then do the other Hunters or NPCs like Eileen/ Alfred/ Arianna etc. - do they also awaken each time they die or not? Are they mortal?
If this is a Dream - was the whole blood transfusion/ contract thing at the beginning also a Dream? Or did it happen in the real-world and because of the tainted blood the Nightmare/ Dream/ Delirium began?
Also what was the contract about? Curative blood in exchange for what? Participation in The Hunt?
Mensis
What or who is Mensis? I understand who Mergo is but who is Mensis? It is a Great One? A Byrgenweth Scholar? A name of a ritual? Is it a being or a thing?
Ebretias
What does it mean she was left behind? I thought Great Ones are... Great and they do not need to transcend into any higher plane of existence? The others Great Ones ascended and she did not?
Not trying to start a game war, but if you like BB and Ninja Gaiden then you owe it to yourself to try Nioh. Just keep in mind that it's not an open world game.
Orochinagis
Member
The healing church found ebrietas on the catacoombs too, they learned from her and the phumerian ruins about the old ones existence. So they wanted to communicate with them, making experiments on the upper tower of the healing church gaining knowlegde of how to pass or create realms hence the Dream and Nightmare were born.
According to Lovecraft, to summon bigger creatures you had to summon lower ones first so the Messengers where the first beings to be called in yharman to establish a network but it looks like it wasnt enough, the healing church proceed to experiments on Yharman people (The patients from the DLC) to be the first hosts and the Nightmare was born.
The healing church moved their HQ to the Nightmare (or got sucked in the nightmare) to continue their experiments, so far this is the oldest nightmare being created without counting the phumerian if they made any.
Laurence with enough Knowlegde departed from the healing Church and create an alliance with the Old Hunters to create their own version using a host tied with an Old One and the Dream was created, anyone called or linked to the dream is unable to die until Gehrman closes the dream and finish your contract with him.
Later on Micolash made another Nightmare area close to Henwick using other scholars as batteries and finally himself (his real body dried in the process)
Finally, The Amygdalas made another on the Yharman Frontier.
The Waking World is the real world, like you were protected by the Dream, when the hunt is over Gehrman cut any connection with the Dream so you wake up fron the trance.
The opening is the Foreigner (The hunter) getting the blood administration, his motives to visit Yharman are still unknown but some NPCs tells you most of the foreigners visit yharman to take care of some sort of illnes or to get the perk of the blood administration.
The wolf trying to reach you some people said is your inner beast trying to tempt you to go feral but the messengers arrives to establish a link on your persona, the Hunter is clueless about the contrat so far, he didnt know about being a hunter at all as Gehrman instructs you to just go hunting.
Mensis, I am not of that maybe its the place or the Nurse name.
Ebrietras entered Yharman world via slug, the healing church found her on Isz and took her to the healing church to commute and learn about the great ones, they learning a lot from her and she from them , they thought keeping her locked was a safe but Ebrietras started to manipulated the healing church to open door for the great ones via blood administration on all yharman and start experimenting on opening portal to the great ones world.
Just because he likes Nioh? Cool for him, the game earned its own mention to be played I dont really compare Nioh with Souls at all.
I am playing Nioh, backtracking and doing the same area even three times is boring and tedious for me, currently at area 3.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I think Mensis is a society set up (possibly by Micolash) to communicate with the Great Ones. They're all the folk who wear the cages on their heads. I'm guessing the lecture hall was theirs and through an experiment gone wrong they created some kind of rift between it and the Nightmare of Mensis/Nightmare Frontier.
I believe Ebrietas was literally left behind when the other Great Ones left the planet or returned home or whatever. I think Rom, the Moon Presence, Amygdala and Mergo's Wet Nurse are also other Great Ones, but I don't really understand how they relate to one another. Mergo's Wet Nurse, Rom, Moon Presence and Amygdala could all exist in a different reality or dreamlike construct as they're clearly not in the 'real world' whereas Ebrietas appears to be.
Ill def pick up Nioh when my thesis is finally finished later this month. In the meantime its BB and OW when I can find the time. Big souls and Ninja Gaiden fan so a team ninja take on the formula is right up my alley. Not sure how it could even come close to BB for me, which is my favorite of the series.
ALSO for those curious about the lore you should read the pale blood hunt
ALSO for those curious about the lore you should read the pale blood hunt
CalhounBurns
Neo Member
Mensis, The Choir and the Hunters are all divisions of the Healing Church.
The Healing Church used the old blood to gain power in Yharnam. Knowing that it caused the beat scourge they created the Hunters' Workshop to hunt the beasts and keep the scourge from the citizens of Yharnam.
The Choir were high ranking members of the church - while Mensis was the school from which they graduated.
I think all of it is real, my understanding is the notion of the dream is a hunter given the ability to reawaken. Djura and Eileen etc were probably once part of the dream and fulfilled their night of the hunt to choose the "submit" ending, when they awaken as mortal. This all seems to be granted by the
Moon Presence
The Hunter's Dream however is somehow not real. Or at least not on the same plane of existence as Yharnam. It's Gherman's nightmare, perpetuated by the Moon Presence. If you attack Gherman while he's in his chair in the dream, he just fades away.
Defeating Gherman without consuming the umbilical cords simply sees your hunter replace Gherman as the host of the nightmare. I believe this is the "bad" ending. There is some quite rare dialogue in the Hunter's Dream of Gherman talking in his sleep, begging Master Willem and Lawrence to free him from the dream.
Taking the submit ending is I guess neutral. You're free of the nightmare and not doomed to become it's host.
Consuming the three umbilical cords signifies that you gained enough knowledge to realise that the Moon Presence is behind the dream and the strength to resist it at the end. The notes scattered throughout the game elude to this. In fact the very first note you encounter, in the room you wake up in at the start of the game reads "seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt" A note in the Lecture Hall reads "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood." I dont think Paleblood specifically refers to the Moon Presence (more likely the moon phase) but clearly they're connected. This is why it's the true "good" ending as you're bringing the cycle of the hunt to an end.
Defeating Gherman without consuming the umbilical cords simply sees your hunter replace Gherman as the host of the nightmare. I believe this is the "bad" ending. There is some quite rare dialogue in the Hunter's Dream of Gherman talking in his sleep, begging Master Willem and Lawrence to free him from the dream.
Taking the submit ending is I guess neutral. You're free of the nightmare and not doomed to become it's host.
Consuming the three umbilical cords signifies that you gained enough knowledge to realise that the Moon Presence is behind the dream and the strength to resist it at the end. The notes scattered throughout the game elude to this. In fact the very first note you encounter, in the room you wake up in at the start of the game reads "seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt" A note in the Lecture Hall reads "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood." I dont think Paleblood specifically refers to the Moon Presence (more likely the moon phase) but clearly they're connected. This is why it's the true "good" ending as you're bringing the cycle of the hunt to an end.
Jugendstil
Member
I think ENB is pretty over Soulsborne games, at least for now. He completely abandoned the BB lore focused playthrough he was doing on his stream when he got sidetracked fucking around in Chalice dungeons, and his DS3 playthrough on YouTube was painful to watch because he seemed so uninterested. His work is big part of getting me into these games, so it sucks to see him lose interest, but I get it. You can't play the same five games over and over and keep your sanity. I'm glad he's finally enjoying something new (even though I'm realizing his Twitch stream isn't really my cup of tea).
Jugendstil
Member
Exactly. It's beyond aggravating.
Honestly it's quite hard to say where the specific dreams begin and end, but it's safe to say that the entire game is inside of a "dream." To understand the dreams in this game more thoroughly, though, you should look into HP Lovecraft's concept of the Dreamlands.
The basic idea is that that dreams take place in these lands that are real, physical spaces created and maintained by powerful cosmic entities. So it's not so much that "oh it was all a dream" it's more that the game takes place in a series of metaphysically connected worlds sustained by the Great Ones or their followers.
With regards to the Hunter's Dream, I feel that it is more a condition maintained by the moon presence than it is a "place." Yharnam is certainly a "real" city in the game, and the Hunt certainly takes place there, but it is something of a loop - it seems to go on forever and ever despite it being depicted as a one-night, ceremonial affair.
The Waking World is simply what is outside of the Dream / Nightmare. The Hunter's Dream (which is to say the looping Hunt that takes place in and around Yharnam) is sustained by the Moon Presence (this is what "Paleblood" refers to, it's not blood at all) as some kind of attempt to nurture or comfort Gehrman and fill in the void left by his previous misdeeds (Fishing Hamlet massacre) and Maria's death. This is what the Great Ones do - they covet and love in strange and unknowable ways.
As for the contract and the beginning, you are presumably paying for blood ministration, Yharnam's main commodity. You are sick with an unknown something, and are given the foul blood that turns you into a beast. Before that can happen, the messengers choose / mark you and you are drawn into the Hunter's Dream / Nightmare for unknown reasons. The beast that crawls out of the blood in the opening scene and then bursts into flame, to me, represents the beasthood that blood ministration leads you, and the messengers helping you to resist it.
Mensis is a group of people, descended from the Byrgenwerth scholars. They basically broke off from the college and continued their research in secret, within the "Unseen Village." There, the kidnapped people (bag carrying dudes did this for them) for their rituals, which eventually lead them to breach the nightmare land sustained by the undying Mergo. Micolash was a prominent figure in the School of Mensis, and as you can see, all of them are dead in Yharnam, living on only inside The Nightmare of Mensis.
Its interesting to me that there seems to be so much confusion over one of the most integral parts of the game's story, which is the pale blood. For a long time ive always associated it with the great ones, as every time you fight one rather than bleed red blood they bleed this clear, pale blood. But reading the paleblood hunt and listening to other's take on it puts every perspective into question.
Orochinagis
Member
There are loop holes for the sake of personal interpretation on purpose, the correct answer is pretty much told on items you found but connecting the dots is harder
roflwaffles
Member
Question - should I make my Church Pick, Saw Cleaver, or my Saw Spear my fire weapon on my arcane build?
Orochinagis
Member
Church gains more damage but acts more like a lance so close spaces are bad for that weapon, Saw Cleaver is pretty good against beasts but only on transform mode, and the Saw Spear have some good serration for early damage in both modes
17 Seconds
Banned
i don't get it. was gerhman the first hunter, or was it ludwig?
Orochinagis
Member
Gehrman , Ludwig was a tomb prospector before the healing church found Ebrietas and declared a hunter to fight the hunters themselves transformed into beasts.
Church Pick is a fucking great weapon and you should use it with or without fire
It's serrated and righteous, wonderful.
Whats the best way to utilize the Whirligig Saw? I'm trying to give it some love but it ends up getting me killed half the time when the enemy decides he's had enough of my L2 spam and decides not to get stunlocked lol
Use the L2 Spam only when it works.
Ludwig for example can't be punished that good with L2 spam in his first phase. But the second one is L2 all the way. Get close, press L2, wait for him to die.
But the other attacks deal great damage, too. So at least for me it's not much of an issue.
Poor Micolash on the other hand... I managed to push him into a corner and L2 did the rest lol.
Dave_6
Member
This is my first actual play through but I'm beginning to think that I should've used the axe instead of the rifle spear. The spear does have some insane range which has helped me with many of the enemies but it can suck against some bosses. There's always the next play through I guess! Tough game but very rewarding to get through, especially since it's my first 'Souls' game.
You can buy the other weapons and should find plenty of materials to upgrade others, too.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Can't escape this game! It's inside my mind 100% of the time 1.5 week after finishing it!
I made some more interesting pics:
Hello Church of Amygdala...
Incredible setup for a boss fight after a very long and very hard level.
Hello Micolash...
Upper Cathedral Ward is (of course) visible from Cathedral Ward! #1 is the orange entrance doorway (left of the bonfire) which is upstairs and guarded by one Plague Doctor. #2 is the bridge from Workshop Tower to Upper Cathedral Ward with the 2 Plague Doctors.
Hintertomb Chalice looks awfully close to Valley of Defilement 5-2...
You can see the Great Bridge in the distance from Hemwick!
You can see Old Yharnam from Cathedral Ward. #1 is the entrance to Old Yharnam (the door with the note), #2 is the first bridge you cross where Djura starts talking to you, #3 is the first destroyed building you enter - with the ladder shortcut to the plaza below with Djura's Friend Hunter. #4 is continued below...
... which leads us to #5 which is the final set of stairs leading down to the square right in front of Church of the Good Chalice and Blood-starved Beast! It is all visible from Cathedral Ward!
I made some more interesting pics:
Hello Church of Amygdala...
Incredible setup for a boss fight after a very long and very hard level.
Hello Micolash...
Upper Cathedral Ward is (of course) visible from Cathedral Ward! #1 is the orange entrance doorway (left of the bonfire) which is upstairs and guarded by one Plague Doctor. #2 is the bridge from Workshop Tower to Upper Cathedral Ward with the 2 Plague Doctors.
Hintertomb Chalice looks awfully close to Valley of Defilement 5-2...
You can see the Great Bridge in the distance from Hemwick!
You can see Old Yharnam from Cathedral Ward. #1 is the entrance to Old Yharnam (the door with the note), #2 is the first bridge you cross where Djura starts talking to you, #3 is the first destroyed building you enter - with the ladder shortcut to the plaza below with Djura's Friend Hunter. #4 is continued below...
... which leads us to #5 which is the final set of stairs leading down to the square right in front of Church of the Good Chalice and Blood-starved Beast! It is all visible from Cathedral Ward!
Orochinagis
Member
Thats because BB is an Open World game disguised as a linear game.
The axe true strength is on its R2 charge attacks, it melts everything even bosses
The axe true strength is on its R2 charge attacks, it melts everything even bosses
I actually died my first trip to Upper Cathedral Ward because I was looking down like "Oh shit that's the courtyard where the two giants are!"
CalhounBurns
Neo Member
FYI if you go into the settings you can turn the HUD off. Handy for taking screenshots. If you use the monocular as well you can get a closeup look at stuff without the crosshair on the screen.
Dave_6
Member
Not sure what to do. I just beat the Shadows of Yharnam last night so I guess I'm about to head to Byrgenwerth. I'll keep using the spear through there then maybe switch to something else.
Those pics remind me, I never got that hand lantern.
Orochinagis
Member
There is a alternative zone if you get a rock from a random npc on any door then go to the cathedral anywahy before Brygenwerth be sure to talk to any NPC on central yharman
roflwaffles
Member
Any cool armor combinations you guys use? I switch off between a few but I'm getting a bit bored of my looks.
1. Full starting Hunter 1 garb with Hunter 2 top coat.
2. Tomb Prospector set with Knight's Wig so my character appears hatless
3. Black Hood, Crowfeather Garb, Choir Gloves, Cainhurst Leggings
1. Full starting Hunter 1 garb with Hunter 2 top coat.
2. Tomb Prospector set with Knight's Wig so my character appears hatless
3. Black Hood, Crowfeather Garb, Choir Gloves, Cainhurst Leggings
Jugendstil
Member
L2 really only works well on large enemies or bosses, and is best used in conjunction with beast blood pellets. You can wipe out Rom ridiculously fast that way.
I just completed a playthrough primarily focused on strength and using the Whirligig Saw and honestly, 90% of the time I just kept it transformed and used the standard R1 and R2 combos. Move in fast and beat enemies faces in and dodge. I hardly ever parried because it wasn't necessary. If you end up going with Whirligig, I highly recommend using the Beast Cutter in conjunction with it. The Beast Cutter is great for keeping enemies at a distance and it completely wrecks NPC hunters with its transformed R2 knockdown.
Use the L2 Spam only when it works.
Ludwig for example can't be punished that good with L2 spam in his first phase. But the second one is L2 all the way. Get close, press L2, wait for him to die.
But the other attacks deal great damage, too. So at least for me it's not much of an issue.
Poor Micolash on the other hand... I managed to push him into a corner and L2 did the rest lol.
Cool thanks for the tips guys! Beastblood pellets work better with low Insight correct?
Edit: Holy crap you guys weren't kidding Ludwig stage 2 was a joke lmao! L2 ftw!
CalhounBurns
Neo Member
Charred Hunter set with the Old Hunter Top Hat.
For female characters, I like Doll hat, Yharnam Hunter garb, Gascoigne's Gloves, and Hunter leggings. Gives a feminine but practical look. The leggings and gauntlets can vary, but I really like the combination of the Doll hat and Yharnam Hunter garb.
Gascoigne's hat also looks great with the Yharnam Hunter garb, but Gacoigne's hat looks good with everything.
Orochinagis
Member
Ennosuke
Member
Remember when I wrote here last week? Being confused about what to do next and how to even play the game after 1 1/2 years without the game.
I just beat The Witch and Amelia with my second try. I am using now the holy sword as a 2H weapon. The damage with the R1 attack is great, but with the saw I felt like I had more control in a fight.
Kind of proud that I found my way back into the gane, bur still sort of afraid about the upcoming challenges. Feel like a total noob.
I just beat The Witch and Amelia with my second try. I am using now the holy sword as a 2H weapon. The damage with the R1 attack is great, but with the saw I felt like I had more control in a fight.
Kind of proud that I found my way back into the gane, bur still sort of afraid about the upcoming challenges. Feel like a total noob.