Topher
Identifies as young
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Bojji
Member
That's just hyperbolic bullshit dude.
"slave"
So where you buy your digital games on PS5 other than PSN?
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
No
Topher
Identifies as young
I don't have to buy games on PS5. I can buy them on Steam, Xbox, EGS etc. See? I'm not a slave to anything, now am I?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What is a retail store?
Topher
Identifies as young
Then there's that. lol. Oh...and I can then sell those physical games to someone else. I guess I can call anyone who can't sell their games a "slave" now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Stop selling your physical games to other slaves, Toby!
Bojji
Member
You are missing the point, you now name things available on PC...
On a console you are forced to accept what console maker forces you to accept, you have no other options.
You can buy other consoles or PC but this is not what i was talking about in the first place.
On DE PS5 or retail PS5 Pro? They are slowly removing this option, not all games are even available on disc.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Buyer's/Consumer's choice.
Bojji
Member
No, It's forced.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nobody forces you to buy a product. The consumer chooses to buy the product.
Though, Valve did force/Trojan Steam with HL2.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, I know you are trying to ask questions in a way that limits my responses, but I'll answer how I want. No one playing games is a "slave" whether they are on PC, Xbox, PS or Nintendo. Everyone has a choice on where they play. If someone were truly a slave then they wouldn't have that choice. That's the point you are missing.
Bojji
Member
Transition from physical to digital is forced. That's what I meant.
But in the end it's true, you don't have to buy a console but that's just "on/off" choice and nothing in between.
So how many options does PS5 only owners have? None, other than Sony services.
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chokotoureiki
Member
Idk....I'm not a techie and even if you tried to convince me that a $700 PC is a better buy than a PS5 Pro, I will still choose the PS5 Pro over the PC simply because having to know all of the tech stuff feels like you're studying for a masters degree, and that feels very intimidating. Whereas with a console, I don't have to deal with all of that. All I do is press a button and presto, it works. That peace of mind alone is worth more than something that will eventually run into issues if you're not on top of properly maintaining your hardware, and that can be stressful and frustrating.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Again, Xbox, Switch, cloud, PC. All of these are options to any PS5 owner.
How many "slaves" can shed their shackles that easily? None.....so owning a piece of plastic makes no one a slave.
But if someone only wants to play games only on PS5, that's their choice as well. Nothing wrong with that.
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Lysandros
Member
I read that, i get the context. But since (as you know) (whole) Specs≠Teraflops and PS5's hardware strengths compared to XSX is mostly tied to its GPU frequency "spec" of 2233 MHz i am still in disagreement with your beguinning statement "XSX is more powerful than PS5 (based on specs)". Are things like clock frequency, base architecture, and custom hardware not part of technical specifications?
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Bojji
Member
Multiple systems also require lots of money. Most people are stuck with PS, Xbox or PC and unlike console owners PC owners have myriad of options when it comes to stores.
People that are stuck with PS5 only have to accept all stupid shit that Sony comes up with, all the price hikes if they are playing online etc. How they are not sony slaves?
I love games and franchises from PlayStation but they are ruled by retarded people sadly and going in completely wrong and anti consumer direction.
Cakeboxer
Member
Those calculations were always a topic when it came to console vs pc considerations, When Xbox went all pc, Xbox fanboys tried to defend their console, PS fanboys tried to make Xbox look completely unnessecary and masterrace tried to convince everyone on pc. All with the same arguments as today including online fee.
Why would anyone value the games? They are just an extra for people who want to play online and not all subscribers make use of it. The same goes for f2p pc exclusives like Path of Exile, Crusader Kings 2, Guild Wars 2 and many more or free mods or fan patched / remade games and much more. These are also an extra for some people, but not for everyone and so they shouldn't be taken into account.
We can do the calculation in favor of the Pro as well if you wish:
If someone doesn't want to play online at all and buys only used discs for a good price and resells them, he can play completely for free (except the extra cost for the disc drive). Almost nit possible on pc if you want to play AAA games.
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Topher
Identifies as young
You know.....I wouldn't have a problem with anything you said here except for this ridiculous need to characterize people who game on a particular platform as a "slave".
If you want to say PC has more options for buying games then fine, I have no problem with that. Just say that and skip the hyperbole. I mean....to be honest, you are engaging in the kind of rhetoric that console warriors are notorious for. If you want to be the PC equivalent of that then that's your choice, I guess.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Yes I watched it. I actually am subbed to him... but takes like these, from anyone... are always weird.
And why I say specs don't matter, is because we do not have a single PC GPU that is a proper like-for-like representative of what is in the pro. Nor do we have a game that has an unlocked fps running on the pro in its "pro" mode and is also on the PC that can be used as a benchmark.... yet. So yes, the specs don't matter right now. Because they are simply not giving us enough information.
Again, value is a subjective argument. And pushing your idea onto others as a fact is a disingenuous thing to do. Eg... you see that question about enthusiast gamers with a digital-only library on PS? Well you just described me... I do pay for PS+ Extra, but not for the online per see because I only play to games online (Tekken 8 and GT7). I pay for it mostly for the games I get from it.... and each year I download at least 6-8 games from it.
Outside that, I have not bought a physical copy of a game since 2012 or so. Now does that mean everyone is like eme? or that my own values are more important than yours or others?
Exactly...
so again, value is subjective. The price is not. PS5pro, cost $700. For that amount, this is how it would play games. If you want to compare its price to a PC, then build a PC that can play games just like it, and tell us how much it costs. Do not throw in arbitrary things that could apply to some people and not to others to hike up the price of the PS5pro to justify your value argument.
Agreed.
Topher
Identifies as young
bundylove
Member
Till this day i dont understand why these potato pc's have to be built to compare to a playstation product but never an xbox product. Do we have now a potato pc that matches the base ps5 at $400 after 4 years? Please share
Also we went from a 4070 ti to an underclocked 4070 to a 3070 in a digital foundry video now down to a 3060 by this guy. Soon we will be in a 2080 ti territory with the pro lol
What will be funny is when the console releaaes ans you wont be able to get one for months as it will be sold out as if this doom and gloom just has no effect .
Also we went from a 4070 ti to an underclocked 4070 to a 3070 in a digital foundry video now down to a 3060 by this guy. Soon we will be in a 2080 ti territory with the pro lol
What will be funny is when the console releaaes ans you wont be able to get one for months as it will be sold out as if this doom and gloom just has no effect .
Pegasus Actual
Member
C'mon my dudes it's not that serious. JayzTwoCents is a low IQ click-baiter who mostly just likes wasting money on unnecessary water-cooling solutions. "How X console that costs Y dollars compares to pc build I made for Y dollars" is just easy engagement and YouTube revenue.
Is PS5 Pro a decent amount of tech for what's in the box? Yeah probably.
Is it a worthwhile upgrade from PS5? Not for most people, but if you love the PS ecosystem and aren't interested in PC then I guess it's your endgame.
If I was a PlayStation person and had interest in PC, I'd hold onto my PS5 and throw that 'extra' 300 into my PC savings account.
Is PS5 Pro a decent amount of tech for what's in the box? Yeah probably.
Is it a worthwhile upgrade from PS5? Not for most people, but if you love the PS ecosystem and aren't interested in PC then I guess it's your endgame.
If I was a PlayStation person and had interest in PC, I'd hold onto my PS5 and throw that 'extra' 300 into my PC savings account.
bundylove
Member
The pro is a good value for me.
I am digital only since ps4.
I dont play online cuz of stupid people.
And what we seen on the pro was nothing more than pssr boost mode for existing titles not that they will ever do more than that wirh the pro but we havent seen anytjing the pro can do
Crayon
Member
A lot of people enjoy that buying and building part. It's a chore for me though. I know I end up with slightly suboptimal stuff because I just can't with researching to make sure I do. If you gave me a stack of parts I would put off assembling them to idk when. I'll do it, and it's worth it, but I'm over it.
MikeM
Member
Crayon
Member
It would land somewhere in the middle for me. I'd rather do it than yardwork or cleaning a toilet. But less than ironing clothes or vacuuming lol.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
The fact that people still have to pay yearly just for the ability to play online multiplayer is the biggest scam in this already greedy industry. I'm talking about for people who don't care about subscriptions to GP and PS+, it makes no sense at all to not have a cheap tier if you just want to play online!
Sony and MS doesn't have to worry as much about losing customers to PC if they sell their games there so they have no incentive to change this policy.
These are the kind of things that make me hate these companies. I refuse to pay $70/year JUST to be able to play online competetive multiplayer in a few games.
Sony and MS doesn't have to worry as much about losing customers to PC if they sell their games there so they have no incentive to change this policy.
These are the kind of things that make me hate these companies. I refuse to pay $70/year JUST to be able to play online competetive multiplayer in a few games.
sachos
Member
Of course you can buy cheap stuff, but im talking about something with similar quality that a console gamepad would have not some cheap 5 dollar mouse with a A4 paper as a mousepad. I know Windows is free to use but the watermark is annoying.
Exactly, the same way multiplayer gaming is not for everyone but it’s brought up as part of console costs as if PS+ is a mandatory requirement. Just look at the plethora of huge free-to-play games available you could get by not paying for multiplayer at all. Beyond the hardware it’s just individual user choices, not everyone needs multiplayer so the total costs change for those users and your previous online fee calculation wouldn’t be taken into account.
sono
Gold Member
and PC in Op has worse ram (GDDR4 v 6)
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No lol. GDDR4 hasn’t been a thing in years. The 3060 Ti has GDDR6.
kevboard
Member
well, that video isn't very informative I'd say...
but I see that they are using a 3060ti, which I happen to also have (I mean... it is a super mainstream card after all)
and while my PC was more expensive than $695 (I built it back when the 30 series was still pretty new and prices were relatively high), I also thought that my PC absolutely can come close to doing what the PS5 Pro's promises it can.
the promise so far for the PS5 Pro is PS5 Performance Modes, at Quality mode like image quality. and the second promise is better raytracing performance.
and, like... my 3060ti can do that. at least in many games that I own.
so I tried to demonstrate that here with a handful of screenshots. for the last one I don't own the PS5 version, so I can't make direct comparison shots for all of them, but for the ones where I can I did.
first:
PS5 Balanced Mode: 60fps, 4K Target (no raytracing)
PS5 Quality Mode: 30fps, 4K Target (raytracing shadows/reflections)
PC RTX3060ti: 4K DLSS Performance Mode, 74fps in this scene (raytraced shadows/reflections)
PS5 Quality Mode: 30fps, 4K Target (raytracing shadows/reflections)
PC RTX3060ti: 4K DLSS Performance Mode, 74fps in this scene (raytraced shadows/reflections)
what this shows in my opinion, is that you do not in fact need a 4070 to reach PS5 Quality mode levels of fidelity at performance mode framerates (in this case balanced mode, as there is also a 120fps 1080p mode here called performance)
in fact, in this scene I was not able to reproduce the low quality raytracing of the PS5 version. I could try using Unreal Unlocker to tweak the raytracing, as it seems to be blurrier on PS5 by quite a margin. this would also push my PC performance up a notch beyond what I was already able to reach here.
Console versions of games very often will reduce the RT quality below what is possible on PC (see the checkerboarded RT of Watch Dogs 3 on console, which isn't an option on PC)
here is 1440p DLSS Balanced mode, which is roughly 800p internally, running at 112 fps in this scene, while looking better than the 120fps mode on PS5, which has no RT and vastly lower settings (no SSR, reduced lighting etc.)
what also surprised me in this particular game, is the low texture quality seen. I didn't even use the highest texture settings and still, you can see that the second highest setting already gives me superior decals than PS5 in quality mode.
next game:
In this game I tried to reach superior image quality than any PS5 mode, at framerates above PS5's raytracing mode, while raytracing is enabled.
I set all settings on PC to High. according to Digital Foundry's analysis the PS5 settings are a mix of Medium and some high settings, even in the highest modes, which you will be able to see in my screenshots, as some details look lower quality on PS5.
I will mainly compare the PS5's "balanced" mode, which runs from 1530p to 2160p at 60fps and the PS5's Raytracing mode, which runs from 1275p to 1800p, to the PC running High settings + Raytracing with DLSS in Quality mode (1440p internal).
although the first scene I also ran at Performance Mode to compare to the PS5's 120fps mode which runs lower than Medium settings as well
I will use spoiler tags here to not make this post too massive on the page... you're welcome
comparing PC at high with DLSS performance mode to the PS5's 120fps mode shows that I am almost there in terms of performance, while running all settings 1 preset higher than PS5, while having superior image quality that is close to PS5's Balanced (quality) mode. with peoper adjustments I could absolutely hit 120fps at a quality higher than the raytracing mode
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PS5 Performance
PC High + RT DLSS Quality (1440p internal)
PC High + RT DLSS Performance (1080p internal)
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PS5 Performance
PC High + RT DLSS Quality (1440p internal)
PC High + RT DLSS Performance (1080p internal)
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PC High + RT DLSS Performance
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PC High + RT DLSS Performance
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
[All the flying rocks you see in this scene move up and down, including the swing bar in the center of the view. a decent way to catch motion artifacts]
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
PS5 Balanced
PS5 Raytracing
PC High + RT DLSS Quality
so if you looked at SCENE 1 and SCENE 2. in this game I would probably be able to get the image quality of the PS5's highest resolution mode, while having tayracing enabled, and while running at a locked or closed to locked 120fps doing so.
I did not optimise my settings here, I just went with High across the board and started taking screenshots, and I still got THIS CLOSE to beating all 3 PS5 modes in one swoop, even tho I am technically running at a lower internal resolution.
again, of note here is that the PS5 version runs lower settings at some spots, with some slight differences here and there where the console was given specific optimisations.
Image quality is ridiculously good here thanks to DLSS. DLSS destroys the consoles' image quality, as demonstrated very well here by Digital Foundry, even at 900p:
even though the internal resolution is far lower, the PC version crushes the PS5 and Series X thanks to how high quality DLSS is, and in theory you could even replace the dlss .dll used in the game with a better one to get even better image quality than what you see here.
next up:
I do not have this game on PS5 or Series X, only on PC.
I know the PS5 version targets a 1440p output. in Quality mode it does so at native 1440p at 30fps. in performance mode it does it at 1080p upsampled to 1440p through either TSR or FSR2 (not sure which)
and I simply ran the game on High settings, as I assume PS5 runs either medium or high, maybe a mix of both, as that is what we often see. sometimes with some low settings intermixed.
first I tried to get the best possible image quality on my PC.
I found I can reach a pretty much locked 60fps in this very taxing night city level when running at 1764p using DLSS performance mode. so my target resolution is quite a bit higher here.
I recorded this video here with these settings (low quality recording, just to show the framerate (top left) is constant.
there was a small hitch, which I wasn't able to recreate. possibly due to me recording this while my GPU is maxed out.
so there is my performance, and here are screenshots with these exact settings. the first image is always stationary, and the one below is at the same area but moving to the right to demonstrate motion clarity.
1:
2:
3: (forgot to make a moving version here so only stationary)
2:
3: (forgot to make a moving version here so only stationary)
Secondly I made images using the same taget resolution of the PS5's 2 modes.
I used TAA, TSR with 1080p internally, and DLSS. both stationary and in motion to the right while trying to time each shot as best as possible, to see how the quality difference between these image treatments are.
Native + TAA (same as PS5 quality mode)
TSR 1440p from 1080p (similar to PS5 performance mode)
DLSS 1440p Quality mode
TSR 1440p from 1080p (similar to PS5 performance mode)
DLSS 1440p Quality mode
Native + TAA (same as PS5 quality mode)
TSR 1440p from 1080p (similar to PS5 performance mode)
DLSS 1440p Quality mode
TSR 1440p from 1080p (similar to PS5 performance mode)
DLSS 1440p Quality mode
what doesn't come across in these still shots, during the motion shots, both TSR and TAA have extreme shimmering across the road in front. DLSS minimises shimmering a lot, but at the cost of sharpness. subjectively, in person, I prefer the look of DLSS in motion.
I think I can comfortably beat the PS5's image quality in quality mode, while running with settings that keep me at a stable 60fps. while the PS5 version (going by Digital Foundry's tests) can drop below 50fps in this exact mission while walking through the streets.
in fact, my Native 1440p TAA framerate seems to be slightly higher than the PS5's 1080p performance mode framerate. but because I do not know the exact settings PS5 uses, it is hard to say how much of a performance difference we actually see there.
this game only uses software lumen as well, which means the performance bonus that an Nvidia card would usually get in raytraced games is significantly lower here as neither the RT cores of the Nvidia GPU nor the RT hardware of the PS5's GPU will be used here.
in summary I'd say that the promise of the PS5 Pro can be achieved on a 3060ti, not with equal render performance, but with its Ampere RT Cores and its superior image reconstruction DLSS.
this will probably not be the case in all games. especially ones that do not use RT or support DLSS on PC. for those that do support both or even only 1 of those, it absolutely can compete imo.
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NickFire
Member
I’d assume they’ll never match up price for performance unless both are completely open if the user chooses (without console losing access to related platforms). Parts manufacturers need a much higher profit margin to sustain their business than they can charge volume purchasers I’d think. And consoles don’t even need to pass on full cost traditionally, since they can reap back end profits on software.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Thing is, on PC you don't get locked out of using your old controllers. I still have a wired 360 controller that works fine and also a knock off wired 360 controller. I have a Series controller and a dualsense but the one I use all the time now is an 8bitdo 2.4GHz one that cost $30 and has hall effect sticks and triggers and actual decent battery life.
Crayon
Member
hell naw. Every console announcement will be followed by a million of these videos.
Cornbread78
Member
Holy fuck my brain has been hurting since the announcement with this shit.....
sendit
Member
The 5 people who still want physical releases. “Transition from physical to digital is forced”
Sure, if you want to ignore metrics across all entertainment mediums over the past 10+ years.
snapdragon
Member
I know you don't genuinely believe there are more games on console than there are on PC, I can play almost all relevant games ever made, I can pirate games, mod games, create games, emulate games and I don't have to waste money on a monthly subscription
Playstation has 14 PS only games in 4 years, I don't understand how you people defend this. If Sony did this in any other console generation they would get their ass handed to them by the competition horribly
A 900$ PC (in 2024, if people still think a ps5 pro will be a better use of money than a 900$ PC in 2027 than they are insane) will give you far more games, similar/better performance than a ps5 pro, free online play and has many different uses besides gaming, that 100$-200$ difference is more than worth it
snapdragon
Member
A serviceable mouse and keyboard is l
PC's can play almost every relevant game ever releasedYou did bring the online multiplayer fee to the discussion. It's a discussion point I've noticed increased almost exponentially in recent times since it became obvious PlayStation would dominate Xbox in sales. It also never includes the value of games included with the service.
Unfortunately we've gone from (in your words) console warring bullshit to this weird unnecessary PC > console warring bullshit. The pretence that PC owners were above the warring went out the window since the Pro announcement.
Maybe I missed those discussions in the past. Fair enough. But it's never been as intense, frequence and targeted as now.
Exactly. Who is it for? No console owner cares or asked for these budget PC comparisons.
So I get to build a more expensive budget gaming PC from all these individual parts myself and get to wait for GTA6 and a two year or more wait till eternity for single player PlayStation games? What a deal!!!!!
It's delusional to compare the library of a console to the library of even a 500$ computer
The PS5 had 14 exclusives in 4 years, I can't believe people defend this.
Ironman_Bad
Member
The price of a dual sense or high quality keyboard mouse should also be in pc total.. frankly just add 70 foe dual sense unless you're really playing gran tourismo or sports or fighting games with a keyboard 
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PixelatedBeast
Member
Good god, another thread for PC players to try and convince PS5 owners not to buy a PS5 pro....
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Defend what, exactly? PS5 can also play all those PS4 games going back a decade, plus countless other playstation classic titles. It also has a significant number of first party titles ("exclusives", as you call them). PC also doesn't get Nintendo games - those are relevant, right? They don't get Sony games day 1, that seems like another relevant tradeoff.
Nevermind the fact that most people are not playing older games regularly, or the fact that PC doesn't have hardy any real exclusives that console gamers tend to enjoy. It's not enough for you people to enjoy your PC platform of choice, you always have to make it some sort of competition of "I'm always better than you at everything" and it's a completely dishonest conversation. There are tradoffs to each platform, and those that enjoy the console experience are not suddenly going to be enthusiastic about switching to a platform they have no desire to play on for a variety of reasons.
Oh, and you're justifying piracy? Isn't that a bannable offense here? Why don't you support the industry you claim to love.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Didn’t you just return from a ban? Don’t you think you should hold back on the warring at least for a few days?
snapdragon
Member
You cant spend your time watching a few 10-30 minute tutorial videos for installing free windows and putting together a PC? For literally an hour of your time and a 100-200 more dollars you get a far more capable system with more games (especially free ones due to piracy esports and web games, far more features/usability, free online play and upgradability ensuring that your PC will be a long term investment.
It's sad to see console gaming dominated by 2 filthy rich multimedia companies who don't put out games, don't drop the prices of their systems, don't innovate and will charge ludicrous prices for future revisions of their hardware and they still retain fanboys/ignorant consumers will keep defending their practices
I hope the switch 2 absolutely rolls the ps5 and XSX
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I never said anything against the PC, I said we all have different tastes yet there's people here who constantly war against people preferring consoles, like the poster above I am responding to. Not sure why you're singling me out, did you happen to read my post first?