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Cancel culture appears to be losing steam
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Completely predates the modern culture around these things.
No they're more or less the same thing. Boycotts have never been just people not buying products they don't like, they're very often/usually targeted toward partnerships, sponsors, publishers, etc.
They also don't eradicate a person or their work from existence, but they seek to isolate them from businesses where they make money. Louis CK still does shows and makes movies, for example, but he has to do it without the support of the Hollywood system.
Now, as with any boycott, I think companies overestimate the leverage of these market forces, and as time goes on we see more people inclined to test the limits of these market reactions. So over time I think companies are reacting less strongly to calls for "cancellation."
It's wildly inconsistent for sure. Mark Wahlberg still works just fine despite being convicted of literal hate crimes, but Aziz Ansari gets the boot for being a little pushy on a date.
BigDeadFreak
Member
Lefties told me that such a thing is not cancellation, it's just consequences and push back.
nush
Member
Did you forget the /S? Nope post history confirms you are fully on board with this crap.
The age of your narcissistic, gaslighting, reductive opinion is over. Strap in, because the bubble you've been living in has been popped.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Trump winning doesn't just affect the USA though.
Nydius
Member
See, this is what I'm afraid of. I don't want the ideological cudgel being passed back and forth every so many years. As an evangelical Christian, there's a lot in this world I dislike but I'm not going to cancel people with whom I disagree or whom I may think are behaving immorally... and yet, within my own church, there are members celebrating recent election results and salivating at the idea of being able to wield the cancel hammer against the "other side". I hear a common refrain of "Let's see how they like it", or a variant thereof.
People keep talking about this being a pendulum. If it is, I want it to be a broken one that sits dead center of the grandfather clock and doesn't keep wildly swinging back and forth.
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Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I have to say, the downright hatefulness towards trans people in here is most disagreeable.
Changing your actual biological reality is essentially impossible as of today, but for a small amount of people, doing the closest to it that we can today is the best outcome for them. Sure they're still men or woman as they were born, but calling them what they transition into is just human kindness. We're talking basic human decency.
I will agree with y'all any day of the week that JKR has a right to express her opinions and getting all performative about all harry potter related things is turbo-retarded. And the way the transmovement has taken over the rainbow movement is distasteful. And about cancel culture, and all that. I will agree with y'all to that. But not giving basic human decency to fellow humans? That's where you lose me. LGBTQetc people have a right to live and be happy. Even if you dislike them on principle.
Changing your actual biological reality is essentially impossible as of today, but for a small amount of people, doing the closest to it that we can today is the best outcome for them. Sure they're still men or woman as they were born, but calling them what they transition into is just human kindness. We're talking basic human decency.
I will agree with y'all any day of the week that JKR has a right to express her opinions and getting all performative about all harry potter related things is turbo-retarded. And the way the transmovement has taken over the rainbow movement is distasteful. And about cancel culture, and all that. I will agree with y'all to that. But not giving basic human decency to fellow humans? That's where you lose me. LGBTQetc people have a right to live and be happy. Even if you dislike them on principle.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Me too. I didn't even enjoy the game or the book, but I was still glad I bought them.
No. Then you're no better than they are.
One would hope that seeing their weapons/tactics being turned against them would convince folks to settle on a mutual arms treaty where we ALL agree to restrain ourselves with regards to online attacks, inflammatory rhetoric, overblown aggrievement on behalf of another group, and painting with a broad brush. But that seems unlikely. Just like the calls to abolish the electorate college for the popular vote, to abolish the filibuster to pack the supreme court, ban any product featuring exclusively (or even predominately) all white cishet people suddenly seem OUTRAGEOUS when the show is on the other foot, we all just gotta agree on some commonality of culture and basic rules of behavior or we will tear ourselves apart as a country or even as a civilization. Giving everyone a voice, respecting a difference of opinion, allowing folks to grow and change through mistakes, tolerating beliefs that are not aligned with your own; these qualities are what make the West great, but also expose us to infighting attacks and collapse that more authoritarian culture (and I mean a TRUE authoritarian culture, not the nonsense Trump gets accused of) is far more resistant to so long as the stranglehold on informaiton can be maintained.
Artoris
Gold Member
"I have to say, the downright hatefulness towards trans people in here is most disagreeable."
Nothing wrong with trans people
What is wrong is when bad people star ruining other peoples lives/quality of life and if you don't accept it you are anti trans or anti something else I am sure these people find some other angle soon enough but I doubt it will be as destructive as this one has been
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Go_Ly_Dow
Member
They pushed it way too far to the point it wasn't just the anti-woke warriors who noticed it, but also a lot of regular people. They pushed their agenda hard in ads, in shows, in schools in basically every fooking thing they could in every country they could.
So naturally by creeping into too many areas a level of sanity has come in from those on the fringes of it and pushed it back. Now you can say you support Trump, Rowling etc... and not get the same vicious response you would 3-5-7 years ago. Now a lot of woke shite is flopping, movies, tv shows and games, so it's hurting them.
The right have become the anti-establishment movement that they think they are.
But I think it's far from over. The modern liberals are still embedded in the areas that matter and pull the strings, HR, advertising, teaching, charities and many other important operational and artistic areas. They also believe their crusade will heal humanity and make the world a better place. So they won't throw in the towel. Not whilst they have nothing else they believe in or values they hold and whilst they believe Western societies are evil because they lack the perspective on how other cultures and countries operate.
But it doesn't feel as bleak as it has in recent years and there's reasons to be hopeful in the long term I think.
So naturally by creeping into too many areas a level of sanity has come in from those on the fringes of it and pushed it back. Now you can say you support Trump, Rowling etc... and not get the same vicious response you would 3-5-7 years ago. Now a lot of woke shite is flopping, movies, tv shows and games, so it's hurting them.
The right have become the anti-establishment movement that they think they are.
But I think it's far from over. The modern liberals are still embedded in the areas that matter and pull the strings, HR, advertising, teaching, charities and many other important operational and artistic areas. They also believe their crusade will heal humanity and make the world a better place. So they won't throw in the towel. Not whilst they have nothing else they believe in or values they hold and whilst they believe Western societies are evil because they lack the perspective on how other cultures and countries operate.
But it doesn't feel as bleak as it has in recent years and there's reasons to be hopeful in the long term I think.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Cancel culture feels like a circus
Well said, EB! Truly the best of usCancel culture feels like a circus
midnightAI
Member
Ok, I'll rephrase it, this shift was happening outside the US before Trump won the election
Nydius
Member
Human decency or enabling delusion? I tend to view it as the latter. It’s not like I’m going to go out of my way to insult anyone transgender if I happen across them but a “small amount of people” (your words) don’t have the right to demand the rest of the world abandon reality to make them feel better about themselves.
And they most certainly don’t have the right to peddle this gender ideology stuff in public elementary schools.
Edit: Allow me to clarify a bit. I skew towards the libertarian end of conservatism in that if someone wants to go through the process of gender reassignment, cool. That’s their individual right and prerogative. But it doesn’t suddenly alter reality for the rest of us. They aren’t magically equal to biological women or men because of their choice, and they don’t get to demand special rights because of it.
Instead, we get delusional stuff like this, which is why people are pushing back against it:
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BlackTron
Member
The good: cancel culture is dying. The bad: abandoning our allies, which may have consequences for us personally beyond the scope we appreciate today.
Am I the only one wondering if these may have become somehow connected along the way? Almost like this was jammed down our throats until we took any option possible to get out of it FFS. Would be really interesting to know the real trail of dollars doubling down on all the woke and DEI crap. I know this is some tin foil hat 3D chess shit, but U.S. can only be defeated from the inside out over the long game. Can't help but wonder how much foreign powers "helped" the woke wave when they realized how much it benefits them.
"Look, okay. You can be a hero, but you need to endure Kamala Harris for 4 years"
"I never said I was a hero"
Yeah whatever, delete as needed, idk where the line is.
Am I the only one wondering if these may have become somehow connected along the way? Almost like this was jammed down our throats until we took any option possible to get out of it FFS. Would be really interesting to know the real trail of dollars doubling down on all the woke and DEI crap. I know this is some tin foil hat 3D chess shit, but U.S. can only be defeated from the inside out over the long game. Can't help but wonder how much foreign powers "helped" the woke wave when they realized how much it benefits them.
"Look, okay. You can be a hero, but you need to endure Kamala Harris for 4 years"
"I never said I was a hero"
Yeah whatever, delete as needed, idk where the line is.
Sure, and that works on an individual personal level. Heck, ideally you wouldn't even know if a person is trans if you meet them post-transition, right?
The issue is letting men choose to enter women's spaces and take their achievements. Be it sports, academic, beauty, whatever. Men have enough privilege that it's understandable that a large majority of women feel slighted when a man decides to transition and then takes all the womens stuff as well. And make no mistake; biologically, genetically, structurally, anatomically, developmentally, all these people are their sex without significant surgical and/or pharmaceutical intervention. They are NOT actually women (or men, the other way around).
Does it mean you should spurn them in the office? Certainly not, unless they also happen to be an asshole (and that overlap is larger than you'd think). But it DOES mean that you should not be ostracized for stating obvious things like men should not be competing with women in physical sports without their consent (and despite what AOC says, "no does mean no"!) or anatomically men should not be in bathrooms with females. CHILDREN should be protected from life altering operations or drug treatments that have been shown to be largely ineffective in treating the underlying psychological issue.
In my opinion if transpeople just wanted societal acceptance they could have had it with an appeal to basic human decency, showing they are just regular folks, be more tolerant of questions and 'misgendering' because it is a very odd thing that does require quite a bit of education and cultural exposure to even understand. Then held the line at being called "ma'am" or "sir" but not competing with women or trying to get into bathrooms of the opposite sex. ESPECIALLY transwomen, that was the big misstep. Few men really care if a woman juices up to compete with them or even goes into our bathrooms, it's a pretty common occurrence. But MEN broaching the spaces women have fought so hard for (and then DOMNATING in those spaces), whew, misfire.
Nonehxc
Member
If they try anything against Cormac, Ima get all Judge Holden on their asses.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
That was the single craziest thing I have seen in the gaming world. Major sites refusing to cover one of the biggest games of the year, or even mention its existence. Wired magazine getting their transsexual sex toy reviewer to “review” it (as in, trash the game and use the review as a platform to shriek about JK Rowling).
All because this fairly progressive and compassionate feminist woman doesn’t consider trans women to be identical in all respects to biological women.
Although I think the real tipping point, the moment of max insanity that started the pendulum swinging the other way, was the “defund the police” bullshit. Cities getting destroyed and looted while these progressive white people, from their safe suburbs, saying shit like “don’t worry I’m sure those businesses have insurance”, “riots are the language of the oppressed”, “if you think it’s bad getting your business burned to the ground, just imagine if the police were literally trying to kill you” etc etc. And outright refusing to answer when asked to condemn violence and looting.
While the people actually living in the inner cities overwhelmingly did NOT want their police defunded.
Cliff notes: per the Vanity Fair story, allegedly, he met his lifelong muse when she was 16 and a runaway from a crazy abusive situation and he was in his 40s, randomly at a motel pool a la No Country. He didn’t sleep with her until she was legal. They stayed involved until his death, for nearly 50 years. He didn’t ride horses or shoot guns. He just watched her do it, enamored, and based many aspects of his stories on her life and their time together. She says he saved her and she has no regrets. He wrote her love letters throughout the decades. Social media is calling it predatory because of the age gap when they met back in the 1970s, some people are freaking out and disavowing all of their literary criticism based on his work, etc.If they try anything against Cormac, Ima get all Judge Holden on their asses.
Here’s the story:
BearNecessity
Banned
I already told you it isnt over.
Brb gonna downvote the new how to train a dragon trailer because having 1 black viking is not historically accurate, but vikings with thick scottish accents is exactly how I want them portrayed.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I still haven't seen the trailer. Haven't had auditory time yet. I SHOULD be able to tonight as I'm off work all next week.
Humdinger
Gold Member
It does seem unlikely. People who engage in cancel culture are about 14 years old, emotionally. They are not open to reason, are intolerant of differences of opinion, and unable accept responsibility. In fact, I think I'm being unfair to 14 year olds with the comparison...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And those emotional cancel culture loving, DEI supporting, and bigoted hiring quota pushing people better get a tissue box ready. Because over the next bunch of years with this stuff trending down, Trump winning and anti-woke people now having the courage and strength in numbers to cheerlead their side now without fear, it'll be a big wave of laughing from that side as cancel culture and the like starts to disappear. Recently, many big companies already revoked their DEI-ish stuff and that was even before the election.
It doesn't even matter if something is legal or not. That's why in various things over the years involving crazy stuff, I'll bring up strength in numbers. When you got the mob, you can always get away with more since no police or government can arrest or shut down everyone. There's too many people. It's like playing a DND game. Fight a kobold and who cares. Fight a group of 30 of them and it's a different story.
So better buy a Costco sized pack of tissues to soak up those tears. And brush up the resume because I see more companies clamping down on corporate DEI policies to reasonable amounts companies already had for decades vs the DEI push the past 10 years. And that means HR laying off their own department staff and time to get a new job.
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FunkMiller
Member
Is it hateful to say that biological sex is a reality, and that a male cannot become a female?
If you think it’s hateful to say that, then you’re anti-science and anti-rationality.
If on the other hand, you believe that transwomen deserve to be treated as human beings with the respect that we all want for our life choices, then I wholeheartedly agree with you. But they are still male. And always will be.
I am dead set against the trans movement when it tries to claim anything other than biological, scientific reality. And I make no apologies for that.
And no, males should not be allowed to use female only spaces. Ever. And should not be allowed in women’s sports due to biological advantage.
If you think I’m being a bigot by believing those things, then there’s nothing I can do about that.
Also, maybe don’t lump every person in the LGBTQ spectrum together. A lot of folks really don’t like that generalisation. Any more than people of ethnic minorities do, when it’s done to them as well.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
I'm with you. I'm happy about the changes we are seeing.
On the other hand, I'm in wait-and-see mode about how permanent they are. Some of this might be post-election euphoria, a sort of "honeymoon" phase. I want to see how things shake out after the celebrations are over, after Trump & co. start kicking the hornet's nest again, after the cancel culture types recover from their "trauma" and reassemble. Because we know they won't give up. This is like a religion to them, and they are fanatics.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It even goes beyond human sex and gender. Because a lot of people dont seem to care about classifications.
To prove how stupid it is, lets say someone wants to identify as a microwave oven or a snow shovel. Those are objects. So technically they are an "It". No a he/her/they which are people terms.
So does every person and application form now have to address these people as "It" pronouns? So it goes to show how dumb it can get.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think whats going to happen is you'll see a decent amount of change from gov and companies. A lot of people will laugh and cheer as it goes back to a reasonable norm. Not wildly swing the other way, but simply get back to what we kind of had 10 years ago. Normalcy people could all live with a decade ago and leave it at that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
if he didnt sleep with her until she was of age then i dont see an issue.
Jsisto
Member
At the risk of getting political, let me just say I am fucking relieved. Like another poster mentioned, I also consider myself progressive. And it has been immensely frustrating seeing the movement go completely off the rails and completely lose sight of the goal. Now you might say, well it was the culture that changed. Yeah well, it is incumbent on the leaders of a movement to recognize when your movement has been coopted and speak up. That is part of leadership. They failed utterly and deserved it. The Covid pandemic (a genuine and real concern) was used as a power grab to push Orwellian censorship and compelled speech measures on the public. I swear to god, I hope I never have to hear about misinformation and disinformation again. (I'm sure we will) It is a horrible and tyrannical concept for anyone that thinks about it rationally for more than a second. It was and continues to be a huge risk to the first amendment. There is bad and wildly incorrect information out there, and that's fine, because we live in a country where we are guaranteed the right to speak our minds.
I regularly get mail(physical and email) from the ACLU, of which I used to be a member. It's always about the incredible danger that illegal immigrants and trans people are facing. I'm sorry, but do they really think that's what most people are concerned about when, as I mentioned previously, our most fundamental right of free expression was under grave threat, and I don't hear a peep about that from what was once one of the most prestigious organizations that fought tooth and nail to protect the first amendment regardless of the speech in question? To hell with them. So many rational people and organizations have completely lost the plot and I am personally basking in this needed realignment.
People don't want to be talked down to and made to feel guilty for things that they had nothing to do with. It's as simple as that. I'm sure the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, as is the nature of things. But I'm glad it happened when it did because I and I'm sure many others were feeling that things were going in a direction that was simply unsustainable for a healthy society.
I regularly get mail(physical and email) from the ACLU, of which I used to be a member. It's always about the incredible danger that illegal immigrants and trans people are facing. I'm sorry, but do they really think that's what most people are concerned about when, as I mentioned previously, our most fundamental right of free expression was under grave threat, and I don't hear a peep about that from what was once one of the most prestigious organizations that fought tooth and nail to protect the first amendment regardless of the speech in question? To hell with them. So many rational people and organizations have completely lost the plot and I am personally basking in this needed realignment.
People don't want to be talked down to and made to feel guilty for things that they had nothing to do with. It's as simple as that. I'm sure the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, as is the nature of things. But I'm glad it happened when it did because I and I'm sure many others were feeling that things were going in a direction that was simply unsustainable for a healthy society.
nush
Member
Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
The fact that these people protested, hunted and cancelled - All from devices built on or with components made by slave labor shows the lack of logic, self-awareness and utter hypocrisy of their kind.
They lined up like sheep under the guise of justice and alliance all while stepping on the backs of actual victims so they could self-fellate their pathetic egos as the giant circle jerk widened.
Diluting and tossing out words like racist and nazi - while at the very same time looking at everything through a racial lens and fascist thought-policing that would make hitler squeal with joy and MLK roll in his grave.
These people have set back society decades with their performative bullshit - complaining about privilege while fitting the literal definition of the term whether too stupid or deceptive to care about the repercussions. Make no mistake, the same sheep that bought and continue to buy into all of this will be the first to worm their way back into the next phase of pendulum swing, carefully scrubbing their posts and erasing their pronouns like the parasites they are.
They lined up like sheep under the guise of justice and alliance all while stepping on the backs of actual victims so they could self-fellate their pathetic egos as the giant circle jerk widened.
Diluting and tossing out words like racist and nazi - while at the very same time looking at everything through a racial lens and fascist thought-policing that would make hitler squeal with joy and MLK roll in his grave.
These people have set back society decades with their performative bullshit - complaining about privilege while fitting the literal definition of the term whether too stupid or deceptive to care about the repercussions. Make no mistake, the same sheep that bought and continue to buy into all of this will be the first to worm their way back into the next phase of pendulum swing, carefully scrubbing their posts and erasing their pronouns like the parasites they are.
To put it simply......If pronouns are coming out of someone else's mouth then those are their pronouns, even if they are referring to someone else.
BearNecessity
Banned
Im not the keeping track of which products to boycott. Must be tiring.
I dunno, according to this article is was waaaaaaaaaay more involved than just "waiting till she was of age". He LEFT THE COUNTRY WITH HER ON FORGED PAPERWORK! Not that I care a ton as it seems like she was essentially emancipated at that point and fairly in control, but its really only 50 years of time and that he is dead that gets him off the hook.
Growing frustrated with issues in Britt's personal life, McCarthy tweaked her birth certificate on his typewriter so she could run away with him to Mexico. It worked but left trouble for both of them in its wake.
The optics of their three-decade age gap weren't ideal for them either. Despite characterizations of premeditated grooming, Britt asserted that she felt safer with him than with any of the many men in her young life at whose hands she had, in Barney's words, "suffered unspeakable violence." McCarthy — who was married to the second of his three wives, singer Annie De Lisle, when he met Britt — still worried about statutory rape allegations and the Mann Act in the early days of their relationship.
She said that he was 43 and she was 17 when they first had sex.
Thats the difference between "Cancel culture", which has a long list of 'targets' based off mostly what someone ELSE says is 'problematic' and just a boycott which is personal to you and easy to keep track of why you are doing it.
Yeah, it’s quite the story, and will inevitably tarnish his reputation in some people’s eyes.
Deeply flawed people make the best writers, though!
Agreed, and she's selling a book, right? Might need some independent receipts and fact checking of some of this stuff.
But the 70's in the southwest was basically still the wild west, can easily believe it.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
And that's the fault of people and media.
Putting it into a video game kind of analogy. It'd be like a company with tons of employees and games. But there's small core of employees who are poison internally and on social media. And one game sucks out of the 10 games they have. Nobody internally wants to reshape the narrative around the better games or clamp down on the loudmouths giving the company a bad image.
Adding to it, the media has no balls to bomb the bad game in a review, but instead support it.
The rest of the game employees at the company are confused and pissed why this tiny shitty part of the company gets all the attention, and most of the customers see this and had enough and avoid their games and review bomb them. So even though most of the employees are good people and the other 9 games are pretty good they dont want any part of this shitstorm that gets the attention.
It is now up to the company to fix their issue and media to not beat around the bush because their BS has set the company back. At some point, everyone hopes things get back to normal with a good company, good people and reliable media coverage.
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Kamina
Golden Boy
The problem is never with the poor confused people who say garbage like this. The problem is with the regressive retards repeating or teaching that kind of shit to young people.Instead, we get delusional stuff like this, which is why people are pushing back against it:
Bulletzen72
Member
Is there something wrong with your ballsack?
I find my ballsack quite wholesome and I am very fond of it. I'm sure most men are fond of theirs. It's a wonderful thing. Perhaps you should see a therapist about your ballsack....just saying...
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Grildon Tundy
Member
What a calm, rational way of looking at it. Username does NOT check out.
BearNecessity
Banned
I guess its super personal that a trans person is in a commercial for my favourite beer.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
He looks, acts and lives like a slob. But, I find most of views pretty spot on. He's got a very common sense, everyday joe kind of view on things.
Dont judge a person's lifestyle with their views.
My parents live in a giant house, kind of packrattish, dad drives a hand me down 20 year old car from my bro, they're old and dont have many friends and never really have, dont travel, wear cheap clothes. You name the slobbyness and that's them.
But great parents, guidance in life, tons of money, most honest people you'll ever meet, and dad is a brainer who invented things they used on the space shuttle.
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Wildebeest
Member
Kyle Gass of Tenacious D.
