I think my kid just likes a guy with a bad ass metal arm and super serum ALSO throwing an invincible metal shield. He's seen all of these movies multiple times, Falcon as a lead hero just doesn't resonate with him, as he doesn't with lots of folks. But RDJ as Doom has him excited, he is expecting him to be evil Tony Stark, again, just like everyone else.
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Captain America: Brave New World | Official Trailer
- Thread starter HRK69
- Start date
Saber
Member
You kinda just reafirmed my response. The kid likes bad ass metal arm throwing shield(nothing wrong with that), but even he dunno why he cares about one person/character over another. Swaping characters would be meanless to him. Again nothing wrong with a kid liking that, but kids are clearly not the best judge for a film, specially if said film could take advantage of that to insert subliminar messages.
Well, if the goal is to put butts i seats and sell merch, then it IS kinda important if the kids like it. Marvel ain't gonna be selling Falcon bed sheets, toys, and video games if the audience for that stuff would rather buy Captain Bucky. Disney needs to recup HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS on cap4, it isn't just the box office they rely on. Remember, Disney bought marvel to increase their reach with boys. They have lost their way with the detour into girl town. But if bucky would sell toys and get boys engaged versus falcon, that's clearly the more shrewd move.
Maybe they'll give falcon a glorious death and have bucky take over. Or maybe not. But if they like money then I think bucky would have been a better choice. We'll see in a week.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
No. That makes no sense story wise... And I've heard the takes and no. Still doesn't make sense.
HRK69
Member
We can't afford to mess up this Kubrick-esque MCU masterpiece!
Burning Blade
Member
Snyderverse Cap
Yes, the Captain America who went insane and brutally murdered people. That's what people want.
ManaByte
Member
People want psychotic murderer Cap or cool assassin Cap with a metal arm who has a book of assassination victims including Iron Man's parents.
We want a redemption story. Whats Sam arc? "I'm a vet, got swept up in hero stuff, got handed a bunch of tech to make me a super hero, and now I'm leading what's left after the big heroes died/left, well, except Ant-man, fuck that guy, he's already clowned me once!"?
Bucky has a tragic backstory, would have a very similar world view as Steve, could regain the sense of optimism, and has lots of skeletons in the closet to atone for. That gives him motivation. He also has Steve to thank for saving him, in many ways, so I think he would idealize and want to live up to Steve more than Sam might.
But whatever, we can go round and round on this.
ManaByte
Member
Cap never was a redemption story or character though.
That’s like making Superman dark and gritty. Oh wait.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
We've already done the Bucky redemption tour with FAWS if you even think he needs redeeming for being kidnapped after fighting for the Allies and being mind controlled, and if he's so similar to Steve in worldview, then you may as well just keep Steve.
Steve Rogers is Captain America. Sam Wilson Cap was a bigger flop than Bucky Cap, but the end result would be the same. It wouldn't have any longevity, and everyone will just prefer Steve.
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I think folks just prefer Chris Evans. Recasting with "another Steve" might land a success, but most of that MCU casting magic has long gone so I'm not so sure. It's the ACTORS that sold the early MCU, along with stellar writing/character arcs that played well with both men and women. Recent marvel shows they have little to no understanding of either. 80 mill backed up to RDJs house might turn some things around, we'll see.
I
It's february, a graveyard of movies. I don't think they have high hopes for it else it would have gotten a summer release. I think they can burn Caps name for a decent opening weekend, but if it has bad WOM it's gonna plummet. If it's actually good then it might have legs. They have my $$$ though, so we'll see.
And I don't believe that budget for a second. Maybe that was the INITIAL budget, before it ballooned.
It's february, a graveyard of movies. I don't think they have high hopes for it else it would have gotten a summer release. I think they can burn Caps name for a decent opening weekend, but if it has bad WOM it's gonna plummet. If it's actually good then it might have legs. They have my $$$ though, so we'll see.
And I don't believe that budget for a second. Maybe that was the INITIAL budget, before it ballooned.
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DKehoe
Member
Philistines
ManaByte
Member
I seriously didn’t think it was out until August.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Didn't even know that there was a Paddington 3.
Jinzo Prime
Member
I'm sorry, but does anyone else find Harrison Ford's face on Red Hulk's body disturbing? It' just looks so uncanny and gross, I like:
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Disney capped him.
Damn straight.
They should have dropped the fucker ob the spot, cast a disabled combat veteran, and cgi'ed that actor over him.
Ok, maybe a little extreme.
Bit i do think they should have cast a vet for the role from the get go and I bet this wouldn't have been an issue.
Ulysses 31
Member
Indeed, Multiverse of Madness' budget was also reported to be 200M at first but in the tax forms it was more than double.
Same with the recent Little Mermaid, the tax forms show the movie being more expense than initially reported.
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Doom85
Member
Chris Evans said the same things Anthony Mackie said back in 2011. Funny how the Internet didn’t leap all over him back then, and how when this 2011 interview resurfaced several days after Mackie’s comments, almost all the Youtubers who were more than eager to crucify Mackie for what he said then were “conveniently” silent about reporting on this old interview of Evans being brought up that paralleled Mackie’s comments.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Hegseth new captain America.
Could you imagine the meltdown if they cg’d trump as cap?
Doom85
Member
Sebastian Stan, who could be Cap someday, actually played Trump in a movie, who of course got triggered by it.
Dude, Evans hasn't been Cap for SIX YEARS and you are bringing up stuff from FOURTEEN YEARS ago. Yah gotta let the past go and deal with the oresent.Chris Evans said the same things Anthony Mackie said back in 2011. Funny how the Internet didn’t leap all over him back then, and how when this 2011 interview resurfaced several days after Mackie’s comments, almost all the Youtubers who were more than eager to crucify Mackie for what he said then were “conveniently” silent about reporting on this old interview of Evans being brought up that paralleled Mackie’s comments.
ManaByte
Member
Man, I have an avatar I’d love to use.
Stan at least had to get his US citizenship, bet he has a clear idea of what it is to be american.Sebastian Stan, who could be Cap someday, actually played Trump in a movie, who of course got triggered by it.
Doom85
Member
Now that’s some objectively double standard bullshit right there. If Evans said the same thing as Mackie, BOTH should be “held accountable” for it…..except all either actually said was the heroic traits of Captain America are not unique to America, and Captain America doesn’t just automatically represent America but who Americans should strive to be like.
But of course these asshole Youtubers witch hunted Mackie for it (funny how “separate art from artist” is rarely mentioned anymore, grifters can’t even keep up with their own bullshit angles) and when it was brought to their attention that Evans had actually said the same thing, they stayed “conveniently” quiet about it.
But bruh, you flat out said this shit:
So why is Mackie saying it an issue, yet it was never as issue with Evans? Don’t give me this limp dick argument of “but, but, that was years ago!”, you flat out were making a “in hindsight” argument, so you can’t use “too late” as an argument. If you think in hindsight they shouldn’t have cast Mackie for saying this, then you also have to think in hindsight they shouldn’t have cast Evans for saying the exact same damn thing, otherwise you are flat out engaging in double standards.
Of course, what both of them said is a non-issue to anyone who isn’t trying to twist their words into something malicious, or anyone who isn’t so naive in their patriotism that they honestly believe America is great every single year of its existence (which would be ironic, given a certain acronym slogan with the word “great” in it being paraded around by certain people for a decade now, funny how THEY’RE allowed to suggest America isn’t always great, but when Mackie says something similar, he needs to STFU apparently).
Evans isn't cap. Hasn't been for over half a decade. Complaining about anything he said it meaningless because it's (by Hollywood terms) ANCIENT FUCKING HISTORY.
Now that’s some objectively double standard bullshit right there. If Evans said the same thing as Mackie, BOTH should be “held accountable” for it…..except all either actually said was the heroic traits of Captain America are not unique to America, and Captain America doesn’t just automatically represent America but who Americans should strive to be like.
But of course these asshole Youtubers witch hunted Mackie for it (funny how “separate art from artist” is rarely mentioned anymore, grifters can’t even keep up with their own bullshit angles) and when it was brought to their attention that Evans had actually said the same thing, they stayed “conveniently” quiet about it.
But bruh, you flat out said this shit:
So why is Mackie saying it an issue, yet it was never as issue with Evans? Don’t give me this limp dick argument of “but, but, that was years ago!”, you flat out were making a “in hindsight” argument, so you can’t use “too late” as an argument. If you think in hindsight they shouldn’t have cast Mackie for saying this, then you also have to think in hindsight they shouldn’t have cast Evans for saying the exact same damn thing, otherwise you are flat out engaging in double standards.
Of course, what both of them said is a non-issue to anyone who isn’t trying to twist their words into something malicious, or anyone who isn’t so naive in their patriotism that they honestly believe America is great every single year of its existence (which would be ironic, given a certain acronym slogan with the word “great” in it being paraded around by certain people for a decade now, funny how THEY’RE allowed to suggest America isn’t always great, but when Mackie says something similar, he needs to STFU apparently).
Mackie said it NOW. He is capt NOW. so it's relevant for him NOW.
Actors are, by and large, morons. They say stupid shit all the time. Mackies comments aren't stopping me from seeing the film and I'm glad he sorta apologized and more importantly, acknowledged that he represents the men and women who DO put their lives in harms way for their country and that he is smaller than the role and should realize that.
If Evans was still in the role and said it now, I'd expect the same shitstorm to hit him as well.
MDSLKTR
Member
Doom85
Member
I would not expect the same shitstorm to hit Evans as well, at least not as much.
Mackie’s original comments were never malicious, it was people online twisting them into the worst interpretation possible that made it an issue.
I’m talking about YOU saying they should have cast a veteran. You said that, because of what Mackie said, they should have cast a veteran. And since Mackie has played Sam since 2014, that’s a DECADE you’re rewinding.
I feel like you’re not comprehending this, 2011 was when the first Captain America film released. Evans said it literally the exact same timing as Mackie for his first Cap film. The situations are IDENTICAL.
So by your own argument, Steve Rogers ALSO should have been played a veteran, correct? I’m just looking for some fucking consistency at this point, Geezus.
Doom85
Member
There is a banned mod for that
They had to ban it because people started getting confused why Steve Rogers was randomly accusing people of eating cats and dogs.
TDiddyLive
Member
First off, I doubt many people people even heard that Evans comment when he said it. I sure don’t remember it, but I’ll take your word for it. Remember, social media wasn’t as huge back then.
But, going by your timeline, the situation isn’t remotely identical. When Evans made his comment, he was basically a nobody. He was a side character or semi-comedic relief in most of his work prior to that movie, so nobody even paid attention to what he said. Along with that, it was the very beginning of the MCU, so this interconnected movie universe wasn’t really a thought for general audiences at the time, especially when this character had not appeared in a connected movie yet.
With those in mind, most people seeing this upcoming movie are very familiar with Mackie, due to being in a bunch of MCU movies and a starring role in a MCU TV series. They know his character and he is the face of this movie that’s representing the next big step in the biggest shared universe in movie history. The spotlight is a lot larger for him, as well as the criticism for anything he does.
Doom85
Member
But why are we crucifying Mackie specifically for something he said and when it came out that Evans said the same thing, most people either refuse to acknowledge it (and yes, many didn’t hear when it was said, HOWEVER several major news sites were reporting on it NOW after the Mackie interview. Hence why I kept saying “resurfaced”. And no, I don’t believe for a second these Youtubers and such heard about one random interview Mackie had but just conveniently didn’t hear about this news update about the old Evans interview) or aren’t also saying, “well, he didn’t deserve the role either” since they were saying such extreme comments about Mackie?
Regardless, it wasn’t even criticism, it was “let’s twist his words into meaning the worst possible thing because that’ll get us those sweet ragebait views”.
Also, your argument isn’t very good, it’s BECAUSE the MCU was only getting started, and pre-Avengers 1, that should mean MORE pressure was on the actors to not rock the boat any. This was an unproven experiment for a Hollywood franchise, so if anything the spotlight was on them harder not to say anything that could hurt them.
And even if Evans was not well known, the character of Captain America was well known, and by that point it was already known about the upcoming Avengers movie. This wasn’t some obscure thing anymore.
Let’s be honest here, it’s because these days many online personalities just want those sweet ragebait views, and they don’t give a fuck whose name they have to drag through the mud to achieve that. That’s why they witch hunted Mackie, and they didn’t bring up the Evans interview when it resurfaced because it contradicted the “Mackie hates America” bullshit narrative they had spun, and they knew trying to also throw Evans’ name in the mud would be a far harder sell for their audience as he had developed a bigger following of fans.
ManaByte
Member
2011 is a generation ago. It would be like wanting 2011 standards to apply for something done in 1996! So you can not expect some sort of national 'consistency' on the level of exposure, the reaction, and the standards for an actor running their mouth off. Those things change. So you can keep concocting this fantasy or you can just accept that Mackie said a stupid thing NOW, folks making up the audience for his film didn't like it NOW, and he was likely leaned on by Disney to 'clarify' his comments...NOW.
It's not 2011, it will never be 2011 (again), and it is largely irrelevant what 'woulda, could, shoulda' happened then in the context of the discussion now.
And i think I've been damned consistent about wanting vets to play vets (or at least be heavily involved) in Hollywood across the board. I've said it many times for many films.
So let's just go see the film. If it's outstanding, then it won't matter. If it's a piece of shit, it won't matter. Only if it's mediocre will anyone care about what Mackie said.
ManaByte
Member
Backpedal any faster and you'll hit 88MPH and go back in time.
Doom85
Member
-he didn’t even say a stupid thing. He made a comment that certain people twisted into something to get those sweet ragebait views, and he only “clarified” because he looked at all the childish drama and thought, “wow, you really to have spell things out for people nowadays like they’re fucking elementary school kids, huh?”
I would really like to hear some elaboration on these so-called “standards” you’re mentioning but failing to define. What has changed about the concept of Captain America representing what Americans should strive to be like rather than some general representation like simply “being America” defines great. The character has been like that in the comics as far back as the 80’s for fucks sake, we’ve flat out posted comic panels on it earlier in the thread! And really, Mackie’s statements should be even MORE acceptable nowadays given a certain group of people for the past decade have paraded around a certain four-letter acronym slogan which claims America need to be made “great” once more which by definition means this group thinks America is only “great” a certain percentage of its era based on their definition, so if that shit is allowed then Mackie’s statement should be allowed, only it wasn’t because once again, DOUBLE FUCKING STANDARDS.
The people who don’t get what Mackie’s statements meant never even got the concept of Captain America to begin with. Shocker, a lot of these ragebait pushers and their audience either aren’t fans to begin with or casuals to being with and will just throw out claims with only a base knowledge of the IP they claim to be so passionate about.
-it’s CONSISTENCY! Evans said the same fucking thing and it’s on the fucking record whether anyone likes it or not. And so many were like, “Evans would never say this” and “Mackie should never have replaced him” before the 2011 interview, and these same people proceeded to be surrounded by crickets
That’s what fucking happened NOW. The timing of the interview is fucking irrelevant, and anyone who crucified Mackie over this but saw what Evans said and thought nothing of it is a fucking hypocrite, plain and simple.
-bruh, do not expect anyone on Gaf or anywhere to keep up with your statements you’ve supposedly made elsewhere. Also, that’s dumb. We should limit our casting options so severely? Yeah, okay, I guess Tom Cruise should never have played Ethan Hunt because Cruise was never a spy in real life. Okay. Sure.
-the only people who care about what Mackie said are the ragebait pushers and their audience. All the normal people understood what he meant from the get-go, it’s not Mackie’s fault we live in a world where people are ready to look to crucify someone over literally nothing.
Also, I am not so naive to not believe that now a decent chunk (but not all, calm your shit) of the negative audience reaction will be from those ready to hate on the film regardless of how it turns out due to this. When the ragebait audience commits to a narrative too much, they have to stick to it. Sometimes they’re given enough time to backpedal, but with only a month between the movie’s release and what Mackie said, nah, most of them are committed now.
ManaByte
Member
I like to call them hate lemmings
ya'll shills can spin your wheels all you want. It was a dumb thing to say, he has "been corrected". Now let's see if the movie is any damned good.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It seems that the overall consensus is that it IS good. Maybe not great (though some are calling it that) but certainly a good time at the theater!
Which reviews are you reading? The aggregate ones I'm seeing are ALL OVER THE PLACE. And if you take off the "Early reviewer shine" that a lot of the massive corporate stuff tends to get...well, we'll see.
You know what NEVER got anything but stellar reviews? Oh yeah, all those other cap america films (well, okay, the first one maybe not so much, though I like a lot of it).
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
The Twitter reactions. They're not all stellar. But most are saying the movie is good (not great). It has some flaws but Mackie is a highlight and ably carries the film (there's some disagreement there too). Like I said, only some are calling it "great".
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I've been reading impressions of the movie. Not good to be honest but I don't think anyone thought it would be.
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