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David Jaffe: It's Youtube Grifters that Killed Veilguard
- Thread starter LectureMaster
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but making games is hard lol
dam what a cuck this pic is not sexistHe lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
rabbity-thing
Member
How incredibly reductive. You can accept that he's failed to recapture his previous success without devaluing his past contributions.
Remind me... which successful IP did you start?
Krathoon
Member
Yeah. He is a has been game designer. He acts like he is just sooo damn great.
Dr.Morris79
Member
No. Never.
It's the most detrimental theme we've been seeing in recent times. Not just in gaming.
A true pox on humanity.
Dr.Morris79
Member
Jesus. He's a bigger cock than I knew he was.He lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
It really is a virus.
BouncyFrag
Member
Bruh
bender
What time is it?
Yep. He played a major part in both the early days of PlayStation with TM1/2/Black and arguably PlayStation's flagship IP in GOW. I also think he started the snowball down the hill that is what PlayStation Studios are known for.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Okay, I just watched it, and is it just me, or does the title not really match the content of the video itself? Is that clickbait?
(I think first and foremost, the designation of "Youtube Grifters" is going to cause a lot of miscommunication because I have no idea who
davidjaffe
actually means by this. His definition of Youtube Grifter is probably different from mine. It basically serves as a stand-in term for "Youtubers I don't like or don't agree with", which is functionally useless for this kind of discussion.)In the very beginning, he says EA should have been prepared, but prepared for what? Prepared to launch a counter-narrative? That their game isn't mid? They sure as hell did everything they could to garner as much positive pre-launch coverage and reviews as possible. If their multi-million dollar marketing campaign can be so easily overcome by "Youtube grifters", whoever they are, that might be a good indication that either EA's marketing campaign sucks, or the game itself sucks.
He also talks about how all the gaming community has done is that they've "made games worse", because they're charismatic, and people only hate on the game because they're told to hate it. I don't think it actually works that way. A good game that's actually good will always win out over the "narrative" because people can actually play it for themselves. There have been many attempts for media to try to convince people that a good game is bad (e.g. Hogwart's Legacy, Black Myth Wukong), but that didn't stop people from buying and enjoying the game in large numbers. The fact that Veilguard can't win over the narrative that it's "bad" is because, well, it's just not that good of a game. The fact that Jaffe likes the game personally, colors his perspective on this and makes him think this situation is worse or more nefarious than it actually is.
He also then makes some kind of weird argument about this kind of behavior forcing developers into making overly safe games and "vanilla the fuck out of" their products. His example is that EA doesn't make a risky game like Stellar Blade because of negative feedback. But his example doesn't make sense. DA: Veilguard is a prime example of an overly safe game that doesn't take risks with the story or characters in a way that previous Dragon Age games did. Veilguard IS that "vanilla as fuck" product. His example proves the opposite point that he's trying to make. EA DIDN'T make Stellar Blade. Someone else did. And that someone else is a non-Western game dev that isn't consumed with superfluous features and cares more about gameplay, character design, and art style.
He also acknowledges the moments of bad writing in the game, but he doesn't make the connection that the bad writing is what many people are complaining about. However Jaffe tries to frame the issue in terms of the transgenderism being the main issue of complaint. It's not. It's the writing. But Jaffe doesn't want to see that and just blows right past that part.
Lastly, I think it's telling that he really has to ask, "Well, if not this game, then what else?". That he's not in touch enough to know the preferred tastes of what games people like in this genre really informs my analysis on this. Jaffe is being super casual. And that's okay. But he can't understand when people don't want to settle for a "cold turkey sandwich" game when they've already had a taste of "all you can eat Thanksgiving buffet" games, especially when Veilguard drops the ball on so many things that previous Dragon Age games excelled at.
TL
R I kinda get what Jaffe is trying to say, but I believe that his feelings on this come from a place of "I don't like that they don't like the thing that I like", rather than any factual basis.
thegame983
Member
Top surgery scars killed Dragon Age.
Pronouns are one thing and I'll swallow my pride if it means I can get to play games like Baldurs Gate 3 & Forza Horizon 5
But top surgery scars? I don't care how good your game is. You can f**k right off.
Pronouns are one thing and I'll swallow my pride if it means I can get to play games like Baldurs Gate 3 & Forza Horizon 5
But top surgery scars? I don't care how good your game is. You can f**k right off.
He was a good and creative guy in his time, what he did for Twisted Metal and God of War will go down in history. But something has really screwed him up in recent years, it's not even clear what...
It was a downright weak game that dragged an entire franchise into the grave with it, and it would be fine if the game was unique and there would be nothing to compare it with, but there were more than enough RPGs and there is something to compare it with.
It was a downright weak game that dragged an entire franchise into the grave with it, and it would be fine if the game was unique and there would be nothing to compare it with, but there were more than enough RPGs and there is something to compare it with.
bender
What time is it?
Okay, I just watched it, and is it just me, or does the title not really match the content of the video itself? Is that clickbait?
(I think first and foremost, the designation of "Youtube Grifters" is going to cause a lot of miscommunication because I have no idea who
In the very beginning, he says EA should have been prepared, but prepared for what? Prepared to launch a counter-narrative? That their game isn't mid? They sure as hell did everything they could to garner as much positive pre-launch coverage and reviews as possible. If their multi-million dollar marketing campaign can be so easily overcome by "Youtube grifters", whoever they are, that might be a good indication that either EA's marketing campaign sucks, or the game itself sucks.
He also talks about how all the gaming community has done is that they've "made games worse", because they're charismatic, and people only hate on the game because they're told to hate it. I don't think it actually works that way. A good game that's actually good will always win out over the "narrative" because people can actually play it for themselves. There have been many attempts for media to try to convince people that a good game is bad (e.g. Hogwart's Legacy, Black Myth Wukong), but that didn't stop people from buying and enjoying the game in large numbers. The fact that Veilguard can't win over the narrative that it's "bad" is because, well, it's just not that good of a game. The fact that Jaffe likes the game personally, colors his perspective on this and makes him think this situation is worse or more nefarious than it actually is.
He also then makes some kind of weird argument about this kind of behavior forcing developers into making overly safe games and "vanilla the fuck out of" their products. His example is that EA doesn't make a risky game like Stellar Blade because of negative feedback. But his example doesn't make sense. DA: Veilguard is a prime example of an overly safe game that doesn't take risks with the story or characters in a way that previous Dragon Age games did. Veilguard IS that "vanilla as fuck" product. His example proves the opposite point that he's trying to make. EA DIDN'T make Stellar Blade. Someone else did. And that someone else is a non-Western game dev that isn't consumed with superfluous features and cares more about gameplay, character design, and art style.
He also acknowledges the moments of bad writing in the game, but he doesn't make the connection that the bad writing is what many people are complaining about. However Jaffe tries to frame the issue in terms of the transgenderism being the main issue of complaint. It's not. It's the writing. But Jaffe doesn't want to see that and just blows right past that part.
Lastly, I think it's telling that he really has to ask, "Well, if not this game, then what else?". That he's not in touch enough to know the preferred tastes of what games people like in this genre really informs my analysis on this. Jaffe is being super casual. And that's okay. But he can't understand when people don't want to settle for a "cold turkey sandwich" game when they've already had a taste of "all you can eat Thanksgiving buffet" games, especially when Veilguard drops the ball on so many things that previous Dragon Age games excelled at.
TL
He was taking shots at Grummz but I have no idea what his Youtube presence is, if any. I don't now much about Grummz beyond the surface level.
Some of his thought trains almost align with mine before going off the rails. He mentioned being spoiled by choice in that amount of titles available to us these days but then counters that thought with "but what if you want to play a game in the vein of Dragonage" and can't think of any modern examples as alternatives. But the kick is that BioWare is mostly known for writing, characterization, and stories that branch based on dialog choices from the player. If I'm being generous, game play has been secondary for them for a really long time and I'd argue presentation is more important to them. So even if the game is fine mechanically, that aspect will be drown out in that sea of choice and what most will talk about will be the strongest and weakest aspects of the game. We've heard a lot of talk about how technically sound the game is and how bad the writing and performances can be.
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Didn't EA cherry pick who was able to give this game reviews at launch? And the two youtubers who got the most traction for their "negative" reviews were SkillUp and Matty. I watched both their reviews and neither of them ragged on the game for wokeness. They pointed out shitty dialogue and writing, with receipts and shared their opinion on the gameplay. If EAs cherry picked reviewers who were paid to talk about how it was a "return to form" did a real review rather than a paid advertisement maybe the game would have done better. Instead gamers realized the reviews were shit.
Maybe the game just sucked.
Maybe the game just sucked.
Zacfoldor
Member
Whoever made the game woke as fuck killed it. YouTubers just made sure everyone was informed about all the woke bullshit before purchase.
Remember when they told us they would win this war for gaming’s soul? Sounds like they are losing to me. First we got a ‘rare incel win’ from Pachter for doing Outlaws, and now Jaffe is giving us full credit for doing Veilguard. Sounds like we own the zeitgeist, and people are starting to notice.
They get super pissed when we win.
Remember when they told us they would win this war for gaming’s soul? Sounds like they are losing to me. First we got a ‘rare incel win’ from Pachter for doing Outlaws, and now Jaffe is giving us full credit for doing Veilguard. Sounds like we own the zeitgeist, and people are starting to notice.
They get super pissed when we win.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He was? Grummz isn't even a Youtuber though.
bender
What time is it?
I'm pretty sure that is who the "go develop your own game" barb was aimed at.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That part fits Grummz, but not the Youtuber part. If I had to guess, Jaffe was talking about this guy, since he fits both.
But I really have no idea. I can't fully analyze Jaffe's thesis effectively if I don't know whom he's talking about.
bender
What time is it?
That part fits Grummz, but not the Youtuber part. If I had to guess, Jaffe was talking about this guy, since he fits both.
But I really have no idea. I can't fully analyze Jaffe's thesis effectively if I don't know whom he's talking about.
Hah, I've never even heard of Sungrand Studios which would be my counter to Jaffe, as I think the influence of most influencers are greatly overblown.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It is in some ways, but not in others, in my opinion. Influencers can signal boost that a bad game is bad or a good game is good and are very good at that, but they can't cause people to switch their opinions that a good game is bad or a bad game is good.
Kokoloko85
Member
So you dont think the DEI/Woke influence on the game didnt affect the games reception? 2014 the previous game won game of the year, this game when it comes to mechanics of gameplay isnt much worse, Id say even better in some ways.
bender
What time is it?
I can agree with that but the infamous stuff in Veilgaurd is so awkward and ham-fisted that it would have gone viral regardless. And I could be completely wrong here, but I think BioWare's cachet is in the rearview mirror so it's going to be hard to get anyone excited for their next game.
Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
Take a look at his subscriber count on YouTube and compare it to last year and the year before that. The guy has flat lined because he drives everyone who has a brain away. He is a literal cancer on society and directly contributes to the attempted destruction of western core values. I refuse to support both him and anyone who platforms him monetarily. Hope you read this Jafee, you fucking clown.
Off topic: Does Jaffe have some mental health issues? I don't see anything wrong with this picture. It is actually cool idea for parties and proms.He lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
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Kokoloko85
Member
I dont know about grifters.
But if anyone doesnt think this game got hated on and backlash because of its DEI/Woke writing and attempts then you’re lying to yourself or a buffoon.
Maybe you missed the thousands of posts in forums and social media before and after the game was released about how they want the game to fail?
I find it weird people make a genuine attempt for DEI/Woke game to get cancelled, say the whole, Go woke, Go broke slogan. But when they get what the want and the game is cancelled or underperforms, they act like that wasnt part of the games failure and play oblivious?
What message do you want to send to studios who do DEI/Woke? Do you want to tell them the game is bad or the political agenda shouldnt be in games? Make your minds up.
It had a huge hate campaign against it before it ever released because of the DEI/Woke politics in the game.
Im glad it got cancelled and got the hate. Let studios learn the hard way about DEI/Woke. But some of you gimps need to be less disingenuous and say why the game got hated on before and after the game got released. And not pretend its because it was just a bad game lol.
But if anyone doesnt think this game got hated on and backlash because of its DEI/Woke writing and attempts then you’re lying to yourself or a buffoon.
Maybe you missed the thousands of posts in forums and social media before and after the game was released about how they want the game to fail?
I find it weird people make a genuine attempt for DEI/Woke game to get cancelled, say the whole, Go woke, Go broke slogan. But when they get what the want and the game is cancelled or underperforms, they act like that wasnt part of the games failure and play oblivious?
What message do you want to send to studios who do DEI/Woke? Do you want to tell them the game is bad or the political agenda shouldnt be in games? Make your minds up.
It had a huge hate campaign against it before it ever released because of the DEI/Woke politics in the game.
Im glad it got cancelled and got the hate. Let studios learn the hard way about DEI/Woke. But some of you gimps need to be less disingenuous and say why the game got hated on before and after the game got released. And not pretend its because it was just a bad game lol.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I will say that I've thoroughly enjoyed games David Jaffe helped make. However, basing his commentary as a YouTuber, it's disappointing. If Jaffe had a producer who would filter the rubbish, Jaffe would still have a reputation.
Sebastian1295
Neo Member
David jaffe is someone who peaked years ago and nowadays is still desperately trying to stay relevant by making clickbait garbage on youtube. He's someone who's a legend in his own mind.
dDoc
Member
Why cannot it be discussed?
Especially on here, it's a message board/forum after all.
And pronouns are probably just the tip of the iceberg. The game is probably woke af. We will know for sure once some peeps play it.
Veilguard and Concorde send their regards by the way.
Werewolf Jones
Member
StereoVsn
Gold Member
First thing that came to mind, lol.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
That was an awesome setup by the group. Jaffe is an ass.He lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
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Killer8
Member
Like it or not, the issue is political, and if you choose to die on a hill that falls on either side of the political spectrum then you risk alienating half your audience. No shit your game will underperform then. The so-called 'charismatic grifters' are merely pointing out what's already in the game and laughing at it. Jaffe thinks it's a case of them playing pied piper to their audience when he couldn't be more mistaken - the darling liberal saying goes: "sunlight is the best disinfectant", and that's simply what's occurring when a light is shone on these games. If the more people know about a product means the less they're going to be inclined to buy it, the problem lies with the product. If he thinks that a publisher propaganda or suppression campaign will counter this then he is sorely mistaken. Clips of the game's horrible writing - which Jaffe himself acknowledges - turned up mere hours after it launched.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
36:17
David Jaffe is getting cooked
Jaffe is so out of touch with reality and for that, he is making a clown of himself.
David Jaffe is getting cooked
Jaffe is so out of touch with reality and for that, he is making a clown of himself.
bender
What time is it?
Hero_Select
Member
Wow... He's a fucking idiot.He lost my respect long ago when he was triggered by this tweet:
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Of course it can be discussed. We're discussing it right now.
Kurotri
Member
I didn't say anything of the sort, I absolutely believe that DEI stuff influenced the percepetion and the quality of the game in multitudes of ways. And while Inqusition won GOTY, that was 10 years ago as you said. I believe people hold games to a higher standard now thanks to breakout hits like Elden Ring and BG3. Also, this might be pretty subjective to say, but I do not believe Inquisition had much competition in the first place during that year when I look at the nominees.
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