It just loads a small chunk of the next level in the portal … it’s a coding trick .. why waste resources of rendering ..No, dude. lol.
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[DF] Can the Slowest PS5 SSD Upgrade Run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart?
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
- Analysis Hardware
assurdum
Banned
Here we go. Let's the carnival of the stupidity begin .
sircaw
Banned
You do realize that it's the start of the generation. Come on ffs
Your comment on making a simple tflop console is going to look ridiculous as time goes on.
Come on Slimy, put some thought into your own argument, what your saying does not make sense in the long term. (Just say it out loud to yourself, then think about it for a few moments)
I see you and
DarkMage619
came to the same conclusion on the Austin Evans argument, i think i know where this lack of logical thinking is coming from.You need to get out of that discord channel and change some of the besties on your friend list ASAP.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
This is not proof.
He said the entire level is loaded instantly which means it's not stored in memory. If you're going to show me proof, then don't show me a video of someone who did NOT work in the game.
Topher
Identifies as young
Key word highlighted. And let's not pretend XSX GPU is blowing PS5 away. The differences have been marginal at best in most cases. Personally, I'm glad they took different approaches. Why in the world would we want these consoles to be exactly alike?
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You really don't know what you're talking about. I quoted a developer above who said it's loading instantly. You guys just like to make absurd claims without any facts.
assurdum
Banned
PR is PR
We are passed from it runs on normal SsD to it's just a stupid trick and it can run everywhere. Can't wait for the next step.
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Doesn’t matter, it’s still a coding trick , it streams in a part of the level … I bet a 1000 mb/ sec Ssd could also do it. It needs to go through a whole game and game rendering pipe , with all kinds of buffers . It streams the rest of the new level when you start going through the portal a bit . It has a culling and streaming systems as all the games out there have …
The point was , only a 5500 mb/s drive could do it .. clearly not the case .. even one without cache .
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No, but it seems most of you are
RoboFu
One of the green rats
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Horizon and GT started dev in 2017.
GOW Ragnorak started dev in 2018.
Coronavirus wasnt a thing until March 2020. The games were already well into production at that point.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You didn't work on a game and you're trying to tell me what's going on after I quoted an actual developer of the game.
lol.
assurdum
Banned
Sure guy. Continue your sad console war for the whole thread. Your life need a sense after all.No, but it seems most of you are
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Zathalus
Member
A more powerful console would have just resulted in slightly higher resolution for PS5 games. Metro Exodus has around 20% higher resolution on the Xbox, but even I struggle to notice that difference when switching between them.
I suppose they could have enabled all 40 CUs and used 16Gbps RAM modules, but that would have been significantly more cost for 10% more performance at best. I assume Sony didn't think it was worth loosing billions of dollars over.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Now you're saying he's lying. lol.what else is he going to say when there is a whole marketing campaign around it?
Facts are right there, you just choose to ignore it since it doesn't fit your narrative.
Is everyone ignoring the fact that John clearly mentions at the end that one of the reasons why the slow SSD is doing so well is probably because of the PS5 I/O and the dedicated decompression chips that speed up the whole process anyway no matter where the game data is being read from?!? Yes, this would apply to the Xbox Series X as well to some extent.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
No one is ignoring it. The entire point is that if the I/O was enough as these tests suggest then why go with a 5.5 GBps SSD instead of a slower 3.2 GBps ssd that can do the same thing with the help of the I/O.
They had no problems going with a slower RAM bandwidth. Shouldve gone with a slower SSD and faster ram bandwidth or bigger SSD.
sircaw
Banned
NONE OF THAT SHIT MATTERS< THIS IS WAR
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Why would games this early in the generation take full advantage of the PlayStation hardware?
Nearly all games released within the last year are cross-gen games.
Let's not forget the fact that the loading in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and Astro Bot was slower in the earlier builds and there's still visible pop-in while loading new levels. There's still a lot of room to improve and nothing right now is truly instant as of right now and there will be more demanding titles going forward. Basing this on early games is ridiculous. lol
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assurdum
Banned
I think it's quite early to say if such SSD speed is useless. We are still in the cross-gen fase. Let's see what happens when games start to push the boundaries beyond the past generation.
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Thats he is loading stuff really fast … that’s what he says .. he doesn’t tell you he loaded the whole level … why would they even do that .. it’s a complete waste of resources , but anyway believe what you want.
assurdum
Banned
You don't have a clue of what you talking about. Faster data more data on the screen. It's not absolutely a waste.
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FranXico
Member
RoboFu
One of the green rats
asset streaming is the very definition of a trick.*
You heard it here first folks! Asset streaming is a trick!
Topher
Identifies as young
So basically you are making a massive assumption that what Insomniac achieved with R&C on PS5 is all that will ever be achieved. We will see no more benefit to this drive's speed over one nearly half as fast throughout the entire generation.
I guess that's the case for graphics and performance then as well, huh?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Always the internal drive if and when that game comes outSo basically you are making a massive assumption that what Insomniac achieved with R&C on PS5 is all that will ever be achieved. We will see no more benefit to this drive's speed over one nearly half as fast throughout the entire generation.
I guess that's the case for graphics and performance then as well, huh?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Higher resolution or better framerate. Right now, their last two games have framerate issues forcing you to play in performance mode. Deathloop stays around the 50 FPS mark in Quality mode in NX Gamer and DF tests while users are reporting framedrops in Kena as well. Lets assume its like Deathloop and hovers around 50 fps. 20% of 50 is 10 fps and you get a 60 fps framerate.
Id rather take that than some game way down the line that may or may not max out the 5.5 GBps SSD.
MS was able to offer a 52 CU GPU with 560 GBps of RAM bandwidth. They did it by cutting costs on the SSD side. They arent losing billions and neither would Sony had they gone with that configuration.
assurdum
Banned
Yeah I seen how much better games run on series X thanks to the MS approach.
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It aged just fine
Bingo, but don’t tell them here , a 2400 mb/s drive sustained would probably be even fine … only loading times would be longer when Not ingame. That’s what we are seeing sometimes , even now.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I guess I am basing this off of the game in the title of the thread. We do have a next gen only game literally designed around the SSD that isnt even coming close to maxing it out.
We also have several next gen only games like Deathloop, Demon Souls, Returnal that dont seem to be doing much of anything with the SSD. Returnal is literally 1080p base resolution, and uses TAA and checkerboarding to create a 4k buffer. Deathloop struggles to run at 60 fps in quality mode, and Demon Souls left out ray traced shadows at the last minute. Who is to say that more ram bandwidth and a more powerful GPU would not have been a better choice for those games that are not really maxing out the SSD?
assurdum
Banned
Bingo he says. My God.
No bingo , god has nothing to do with this thread
but I am done here .. talk to you all about this topic in about 3 years .
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assurdum
Banned
Games are still tied to the old HDD concept in terms of DATA stream. It's not like developers already know how to push so much data because the tech it's available. Quite early to say if it's useless. Let's see in a couple of years. Have such massive stream data speed it's far from useless especially in a close hardware. Could be very useful when hardware limits will coming. Developers use often data stream to turn around the hardware limits on console if I'm not wrong
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Gamerguy84
Member
How nice of DF to join Verge in trying to downplay the IO and discount what the engineers say.
Looking forward to the PC PS5 comparison.
Looking forward to the PC PS5 comparison.
Zathalus
Member
If you had watched the video, you would have picked up that they didn't downplay anything.
itsjustJEFF
Member
Yea, I'm not really sure If the angle is "Look PS lied about what speed the SSD should be" or if it's just trying to test out what you can get away with rn. I'm personally leaning toward your mind set... like cool, I guess there's a lot of room for improvement. Couple that with the fact that most of these dev's haven't had that much time with these consoles. I think they're still getting a hang of it really. We should see some big improvements in the future.
Rea
Member
Clueless troll folk.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
He's right you know!
Saying this, let's all just wait until fall 2023 and we should then have a better idea of what the PS5 can actually do when Spider-Man 2 launches.
I just hope that some of what Cerny said comes true, different designs to levels etc...because if they don't...it will be a shame...
...Although, people will still believe the next load of stuff that he talks about for the PS6 launch.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I guess people saw a different article then I did.
I saw where games TODAY work with slower SSDs.
I didnt see any downplaying or discounting what Sony said nor did I see them say these slower SSDs will always work with any future game.
But people read what they want to see
Kazza
Member
assurdum
Banned
Sony manufacturing SSD now? What was the point to invest on it if it's useless in terms of hardware performance?
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Snake29
Banned
You are completely right, the generation is almost over, PS6 and Xbox Series 1000 are around the corner, and yet we have to see a game fully utilize the I/O complex.
I'm glad you thought carefully about your argument.
.....No really dude, you are annoying.
And the only "difference" we see between the 2 consoles is a slightly higher dynamic res you wouldn't even notice while playing games, and the XSX doesn't even performs better in fps or texture detail over the PS5.
Wrong, consoles don't constantly write data, only when you download games, updating games. Other then that it's only reading. And thats why the read speed is important over the write speed.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well, anyone have any old articles?
Did Sony and Insomniac say R&C can only be done with PS5 and SSD?
Or did they say R&C can only be done with PS5 and with a 5.5gb/s SSD?
Did Sony and Insomniac say R&C can only be done with PS5 and SSD?
Or did they say R&C can only be done with PS5 and with a 5.5gb/s SSD?
Topher
Identifies as young
Leading up to the console release I was wondering the same things about why Sony designed their console with such high SSD performance. Its SSD has 200GB less storage than a standard drive and the I/O came at the direct cost of die space on the APU which was already smaller than the competition's. Both R&D and die space are expensive and Sony is in this to make profit so it makes no sense why they would be spending extra money to implement a frivolous feature. I don't think they would do it for a negligible faster loading time over an off the shelf 3.2 GBps SSD.
In my mind, there must be some tangible benefit that is intended to be used and the only obvious area is to act as a crutch for the relatively low increase in memory this generation.
Surely developers and people on the console design team would have told Cerny that he's acting drunk and retarded if he was developing a completely useless feature.
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